USC Keck vs. UCI

[Infinitum]

I am having difficulty choosing between these two schools. I would choose UCI for price but I feel USC would give me an edge with obtaining academic surgical residencies in California (I'm not mstp). What are your guys' thoughts?

UCI (US news 43)

Pros
-Instate tuition ~31k (Saving 80k off tuition over 4 years)
-Staying home 3 of 4 years and continuing to commute (Saving anywhere between 40-70k over 4 years off cost of living)
-Familiarity with the OC (Went to UCI for undergrad, commuted 4 year
-my entire family lives in the OC
-New facilities
-Relaxed student body

Cons
-H/P/F MS1 and MS2
-mandatory lectures
-medical center is separate from the school (~8-10 miles)
-Smaller hospital when compared to LAC hospital, much less volume and diversity
-traditional curriculum

USC (US news 31)

Pros
-LAC Hospital and that amazing clinical exposure!
-P/F
-Non-mandatory lectures
-change of scenery (personal reason)
-more research funding
-higher USNWR ranking
-amazing alumni network
-seemingly very happy students

Cons
-expensive tuition (52k)
-not the greatest neighborhood (most likely would live in south pasadena so nbd)
-traffic

I could potentially save anywhere between 120-160k going to irvine upfront, which would translate to several hundred thousand dollars saved over the course of paying off the loans in a minimum of 10 years due to interest (according to aamc loan calculator). If money were not an issue, I would choose USC hands down.

However, I am compelled to go to UC Irvine because of two reasons: 1. I would save a lot of money and wouldn't have to pay nearly 500-600k over 10+ years like a second mortgage (This number is based off a 280k loan over four years with 6.8% and 7.9% interest rates going to USC) 2. If the SDN thinking holds true that any residencies can be obtained irregardless of the medical school that you attend, that would mean I should be able to get the same or similar residencies going to either school. Therefore, it would be more prudent to attend UCI.

I can't help feel that going to USC would make getting an academic surgical residency at a large academic center a lot easier based off more prestige, resources, and their alumni network. If I only wanted to do private practice, than these things wouldn't matter as much. Going to USC would give me a sense of security that I would be able to get those residencies that I want. Are the pro's for USC worth the money? Would they make getting an academic residency a lot easier? Or should I go to Irvine and take my chances at those same residencies? Am I overinflating the benefits of USC?

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[breakmon]

My vote goes to UCI.

If USC is better than UCI, it's not by much. It's definitely not worth shelling out 80 more G's.

 

[La Presse]

Keck, my friend. I mean it's P/F. What more could you want?

 

[swollcat]

If this blessing were my burden I would choose UC Irvine. Having envisioned myself in the situation, I too would be torn. In all honesty, the choice appears a lot harder than it really is. I'm positive you've already made your choice, but continue to loiter around the crossroad because of how desirable SC is. People want what they can't have and in your case want what isn't good for you. You won't regret a second of your decision several years from now when you're balancing your checkbook. Big picture > living in the moment

 

[swift3y]

I'm having difficulty with this too... In your situation though I would say USC, especially if you have been in irvine for the past 4 years and want to get out

 

[Infinitum]

If this blessing were my burden I would choose UC Irvine. Having envisioned myself in the situation, I too would be torn. In all honesty, the choice appears a lot harder than it really is. I'm positive you've already made your choice, but continue to loiter around the crossroad because of how desirable SC is. People want what they can't have and in your case want what isn't good for you. You won't regret a second of your decision several years from now when you're balancing your checkbook. Big picture > living in the moment

Dude, i'm impressed you can tease that out of a post. Very impressed because its true to an extent haha

 

[Acosi]

.

 

[MedWonk]

I am having difficulty choosing between these two schools. I would choose UCI for price but I feel USC would give me an edge with obtaining academic surgical residencies in California (I'm not mstp). What are your guys' thoughts?

UCI (US news 43)

Pros
-Instate tuition ~31k (Saving 80k off tuition over 4 years)
-Staying home 3 of 4 years and continuing to commute (Saving anywhere between 40-70k over 4 years off cost of living)
-Familiarity with the OC (Went to UCI for undergrad, commuted 4 years)
-New facilities
-Relaxed student body

Cons
-H/P/F MS1 and MS2
-mandatory lectures
-medical center is separate from the school (~8-10 miles)
-Smaller hospital when compared to LAC hospital, much less volume and diversity
-traditional curriculum

USC (US news 31)

Pros
-LAC Hospital and that amazing clinical exposure!
-P/F
-Non-mandatory lectures
-change of scenery (personal reason)
-more research funding
-higher USNWR ranking
-amazing alumni network
-seemingly very happy students
-Match list for surgical residencies was arguably more impressive than UCI for 2014

Cons
-expensive tuition (52k)
-not the greatest neighborhood (most likely would live in south pasadena so nbd)
-traffic

I could potentially save anywhere between 120-160k going to irvine upfront, which would translate to several hundred thousand dollars saved over the course of paying off the loans in a minimum of 10 years due to interest (according to aamc loan calculator). If money were not an issue, I would choose USC hands down.

However, I am compelled to go to UC Irvine because of two reasons: 1. I would save a lot of money and wouldn't have to pay nearly 500-600k over 10+ years like a second mortgage (This number is based off a 280k loan over four years with 6.8% and 7.9% interest rates going to USC) 2. If the SDN thinking holds true that any residencies can be obtained irregardless of the medical school that you attend, that would mean I should be able to get the same or similar residencies going to either school. Therefore, it would be more prudent to attend UCI.

I can't help feel that going to USC would make getting an academic surgical residency at a large academic center a lot easier based off more prestige, resources, and their alumni network. If I only wanted to do private practice, than these things wouldn't matter as much. Going to USC would give me a sense of security that I would be able to get those residencies that I want. Are the pro's for USC worth the money? Would they make getting an academic residency a lot easier? Or should I go to Irvine and take my chances at those same residencies? Am I overinflating the benefits of USC?

I think you're overinflating the benefits. If you were OOS and comparing USC to some other state U, I'd say USC since you want to be in CA. Since you have two CA schools to choose from, I would go with the cheaper option. USC does a great job selling their school. They kinda have to considering how expensive it is, even if it is in a desirable location. But, I think the best thing for you in the long run is going to UCI and working your tail off. As an aside, although I do think there is some geographical bias in getting a residency, it doesn't seem like it is when applying to med school. A lot of it seems to be personal preference, so if you apply to every residency on the west coast and get a bunch of interviews there, and rank them, then there's probably a strong chance that's where you'll end up.

 

[ChEMD]

Mandatory lectures is not a small issue. It will have a huge impact on how you spend the next two years of your life. Some people like going, some don't. But the without the option to choose what works best for you, you will have much less power over how to spend your time.

 

[Winged Scapula]

You are over inflating the differences in regard to its impact on a *possible* surgical residency. Both schools are well regarded and while USC may have more name recognition outside of California, IMHO it is not worth the extra significant expense. You could always arrange a summer/vacation research project or away elective with surgeons at USC while a student at UCI.

Moving to school specific forum.

 

[alpinism]

IMO while 120K is a significant amount of money, this is one of those times it might be worth it for P/F grading, no mandatory lectures, and the ability to do rotations at LAC/USC medical center. The first 2 things will make life in medical school much less stressful and give you more time for friends/family. I wouldn't worry about the US news ranking however.

Personally, I'd go with USC.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Totally agree with the above poster. It's hard to know how you'll learn best in med school and you should give yourself as many options as possible, ie stay away from mandatory lecture if you can. The summer before school, I was convinced I would never podcast and would be at every lecture every day. Now almost at the end of MS1 I podcast somewhat frequently (at least 2-3 days out of the week). Some lectures are just not worth being at because you can be a lot more productive on your own, like if someone just reads off his slides or is just disorganized. Save yourself some time and just read the slides or look it up in your favorite textbook.

I only say this because I would have written this advice off last summer but I find it actually makes a pretty big difference. But it's a personal learning style issue. P/F grading is also unbelievably awesome and I think it would be a lot more stressful to worry about grades.

 

[Runican]

Hi infinitum. I am also choosing between USC and UCI. I also would prefer USC if the two schools were equally priced. However I am 99.9% sure I will be attending UCI. My reasons are:

1) Obviously cost. 120k is a lot of money. With interest, this will likely be closer to an extra ~240k. As a 20-something year old this amount of money is almost impossible to grasp, which is why so many people choose to take on such debt. But I think it's important not to take this so lightly. Personally, I believe there are very few medical schools worth 240k more than other medical schools, especially two that are less than 60 miles apart and and regarded similarly within California.

2) Away rotations can be done pretty easily if you want to make more connections.

3) Mandatory lectures and H/P/F suck but after some investigating, they don't seem to suck as much as I originally thought. First, UCI seems to be rather light on total class time compared to USC. Looking at USC's schedule, there seems to be at least one required class (usually lasting a few hours) each day. Also, at UCI, honors simply means >90% in the course, which makes it a lot less competitive than at schools where honors cutoffs are set at a percentage of the class.

4) UCI's match list this year was rather impressive. If you haven't seen it, it is posted in the Facebook group.

When I was asking my mom for advice on choosing a school, she said, try to minimize your regrets. I'm not sure whether I'll come to regret mandatory lectures or the traditional curriculum. However, I am sure that I will regret putting myself in such a financially vulnerable position, when I had other options.

Message me if you want to discuss this more.

 

[Infinitum]

IMO while 120K is a significant amount of money, this is one of those times it might be worth it for P/F grading, no mandatory lectures, and the ability to do rotations at LAC/USC medical center. The first 2 things will make life in medical school much less stressful and give you more time for friends/family. I wouldn't worry about the US news ranking however.

Personally, I'd go with USC.

Like everyone else, I'm unsure how adaptable I will be went I enter medical school so the flexibility that USC offers is a big plus. Thanks for the response.

Hi infinitum. I am also choosing between USC and UCI. I also would prefer USC if the two schools were equally priced. However I am 99.9% sure I will be attending UCI. My reasons are:

1) Obviously cost. 120k is a lot of money. With interest, this will likely be closer to an extra ~240k. As a 20-something year old this amount of money is almost impossible to grasp, which is why so many people choose to take on such debt. But I think it's important not to take this so lightly. Personally, I believe there are very few medical schools worth 240k more than other medical schools, especially two that are less than 60 miles apart and and regarded similarly within California.

2) Away rotations can be done pretty easily if you want to make more connections.

3) Mandatory lectures and H/P/F suck but after some investigating, they don't seem to suck as much as I originally thought. First, UCI seems to be rather light on total class time compared to USC. Looking at USC's schedule, there seems to be at least one required class (usually lasting a few hours) each day. Also, at UCI, honors simply means >90% in the course, which makes it a lot less competitive than at schools where honors cutoffs are set at a percentage of the class.

4) UCI's match list this year was rather impressive. If you haven't seen it, it is posted in the Facebook group.

When I was asking my mom for advice on choosing a school, she said, try to minimize your regrets. I'm not sure whether I'll come to regret mandatory lectures or the traditional curriculum. However, I am sure that I will regret putting myself in such a financially vulnerable position, when I had other options.

Message me if you want to discuss this more.

Thanks for the response runican. I've thought a lot about the money issue, which is evident in my post. I totally agree that 200-300k extra debt is not something you can simply shrug off, especially when you don't have "real world" experience (like me). That's why on principle, I am leaning on UCI because went you step outside the pre-med bubble, 500-600k is an incredible number to behold. I've seen also seen all the posts in FB and you are right about everything. Also, I mentioned that UCI's match list was weaker because I am actually primarily interested in general and neurosurgery, which wasn't that terribly impressive this year for UCI. However, overall the match was great. I looked back at the past 3 years for UCI's match list and I was very impressed. I was reassured about my original thinking that if you are able to get into the same residencies between two schools, it is more practical to choose the cheaper option (UCI). That being said, I am afraid to walk out with that much debt and also afraid that I won't get the residencies I want. After looking at the past year's match list, its definitely possible to obtain those residencies that I want at UCI and come out with less debt. There's a good chance I'll see you around next year Runican. It will be a bummer to pass on LAC hospital though :/

 

[Infinitum]

You guys don't make the decision any easier. It's basically tied at 16-14 USC.

 

[smurfsnowman123]

You guys don't make the decision any easier. It's basically tied at 16-14 USC.

Indicative of the fact that you can't go wrong with either, so just do what you think is right (make a decision and stick to it; switching back and forth will drive you crazy).

 

[DoctorWhoo]

I'm in the exact same position and can't come to a consensus. I feel like I favor everything about Keck more... except the cost. How much more, and if that outweighs the cost, is the real question. To add to the struggles, my parents are giving me a huge push to stay at home (similar to you), but I really want to get out (for what I imagine to be similar personal reasons). Best of luck in your decision, I know I'll need help in mine haha!

 

[SilentSoldier]

I was super sold on USC during my interview, and while I luckily don't have to make any choices yet, I would still have a hard time deciding if I were to ever get off USCs waitlist. My heart tells me that all the things I felt about USC would be worth the price, but I'm constantly bringing myself back when it comes to financing my medical education. On the other hand, I also went to UCI for undergrad and I think it'd be a good idea to get a change of scenery. Plus, its not like USC is so far away from friends and family that you still won't have that support system there for you when you need them. I hope you come to a decision and sorry that this post hasn't swayed you but I think there's a trend with choosing between USC and other schools that we really like USC but still are hung up over its price.

 

[Patrick33]

I am having difficulty choosing between these two schools. I would choose UCI for price but I feel USC would give me an edge with obtaining academic surgical residencies in California (I'm not mstp). What are your guys' thoughts?

UCI (US news 43)

Pros
-Instate tuition ~31k (Saving 80k off tuition over 4 years)
-Staying home 3 of 4 years and continuing to commute (Saving anywhere between 40-70k over 4 years off cost of living)
-Familiarity with the OC (Went to UCI for undergrad, commuted 4 year
-my entire family lives in the OC
-New facilities
-Relaxed student body

Cons
-H/P/F MS1 and MS2
-mandatory lectures
-medical center is separate from the school (~8-10 miles)
-Smaller hospital when compared to LAC hospital, much less volume and diversity
-traditional curriculum

USC (US news 31)

Pros
-LAC Hospital and that amazing clinical exposure!
-P/F
-Non-mandatory lectures
-change of scenery (personal reason)
-more research funding
-higher USNWR ranking
-amazing alumni network
-seemingly very happy students

Cons
-expensive tuition (52k)
-not the greatest neighborhood (most likely would live in south pasadena so nbd)
-traffic

I could potentially save anywhere between 120-160k going to irvine upfront, which would translate to several hundred thousand dollars saved over the course of paying off the loans in a minimum of 10 years due to interest (according to aamc loan calculator). If money were not an issue, I would choose USC hands down.

However, I am compelled to go to UC Irvine because of two reasons: 1. I would save a lot of money and wouldn't have to pay nearly 500-600k over 10+ years like a second mortgage (This number is based off a 280k loan over four years with 6.8% and 7.9% interest rates going to USC) 2. If the SDN thinking holds true that any residencies can be obtained irregardless of the medical school that you attend, that would mean I should be able to get the same or similar residencies going to either school. Therefore, it would be more prudent to attend UCI.

I can't help feel that going to USC would make getting an academic surgical residency at a large academic center a lot easier based off more prestige, resources, and their alumni network. If I only wanted to do private practice, than these things wouldn't matter as much. Going to USC would give me a sense of security that I would be able to get those residencies that I want. Are the pro's for USC worth the money? Would they make getting an academic residency a lot easier? Or should I go to Irvine and take my chances at those same residencies? Am I overinflating the benefits of USC?

Went to USC and took classes with the Medical Students. interviewed at UIC. pM me if you want some insight
Into the two choices based on classes /opportunities
Pm

 

[Dwan]

Choose the school where you feel you will perform the best. Both are great institutions with plenty opportunities, and I don't think you'll regret the money if you're happy and end up in the top specialty/location of your choice (which will help you pay those loans while doing what you love). If you're not happy, however, you'll likely regret how it might have been had you chosen the better fit school. That said, this is something hard to judge before having attended either!

 

[warwickdavis]

I wouldn't take advice from premeds who don't realize how huge 80k with compounded interest is.

 

[kevinus]

I'd go to UCI. Disregarding the money, you have your support network in OC! Commuting from home, if you're tight with your family, is a blessing.

 

[mysmith]

80k + extra living expenses is A LOT of money with interest.

UCI in a heartbeat. This isn't just about stress during medical school, this is about stress down the road when you're trying to pay off the loans. Also, you're heavily underestimating the traffic. BY A LOT.

UCI gives you more time, more money, less stress from traffic (trust me, this gets insane), and less stress from loans.

 

[Infinitum]

Thank you all for your help in my decision making process. After careful deliberation, I have decided to matriculate to UCI. Woohoo class of 2018!