Wayne Vs Umich

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MedSkoolz

MedSkoolz

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I have been accepted into both schools and I am having a tough time choosing between U of M and Wayne for med school.

Pros of wayne: it's in Detroit (I'm from Detroit so my friends and family are here. Can stay in my current home). I heard 3rd year is awesome there. Love the patient population. Low cost of living. Close to my SO's job. Really able to help my community. Already have a merit scholarship.

Pros of Umich: top school, Ann Arbor is nice, pass/fail, great faculty, more learning and research opportunities (still have a chance at a merit scholarship). And it's UMICH!!

My head and heart are pulling me in opposite directions. I literally change my mind daily. I'm just curious, what would you guys do? I know most will say Michigan but any insight on your reasoning would be great. Also, is there any instance that you would pick Wayne over Michigan?

Thanks guys!



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I know people with plenty of experience at both and every single one of them would tell you to choose UM 10/10 times. What is the tuition difference going to be?
 
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I received around 18k/year at wayne and cost of living is way cheaper. I really don't want to make it all about the money yet because I still have to see the financial aid package for each school and I still may get scholarships from Michigan. (With no scholarship there is no price difference really).


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It's hard to make it not about the money because IMO that would be the main reason to choose Wayne.
 
@mcloaf so it I don't receive any grant or scholarship funds from Michigan, would between 15-18k per year be enough for you to pick wayne?

Also, do you guys think there is really that big of an educational disparity between us med schools that would make that big of a difference in your career?


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Usually, i would say to go Michigan and dont look back, but here you have a clear cost difference and you expressed a strong interest to be near your family/friends/SO. I'd go to Wayne for these reasons

However, if i were personally in your shoes, i would go to Michigan hands down because for me, opportunities are important and P/F grading scheme sweetens the deal. I said Wayne because i was heavily taking your personal preferences into account
 
MedSkoolz said:
@mcloaf so it I don't receive any grant or scholarship funds from Michigan, would between 15-18k per year be enough for you to pick wayne?

Also, do you guys think there is really that big of an educational disparity between us med schools that would make that big of a difference in your career?


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Personally I'd choose UM at that price, but plenty of people would tell you that I'm crazy and that your main goal should be to minimize your debt as much as possible.

I think you'd probably get a great education at either place. The name recognition and research opportunities at UM would make things easier if you end up wanting to match outside of Michigan or in something hyper-competitive. I also personally think the true P/F preclinical curriculum is a big plus, but UM's curriculum is also undergoing a big transition right now which makes things a little bit muddier.

Regarding proximity to family and friends, I just don't think the geographic distance between Detroit and AA is big enough to make that a serious factor. You're going to be doing med school with most of your time, and when you aren't it's not that hard to travel between the two cities. Then again, it's you and not me who will have to live with that situation.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. It's helpful to hear the opinion of others instead of having this debate with myself.

@Lawper that was my reasoning too, but then I think "it's only four years", my SO is willing to move anywhere and can drive 50 minutes to see my family. Do you think that convenience is worth the educational opportunities I would give up?




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MedSkoolz said:
@mcloaf so it I don't receive any grant or scholarship funds from Michigan, would between 15-18k per year be enough for you to pick wayne?

Also, do you guys think there is really that big of an educational disparity between us med schools that would make that big of a difference in your career?


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Hey there congrats on the acceptances. You now have the best type of problem lol. I understand your predicament, but I would say go with Wayne for now until you get your financial info from UMich. Unfortunately, debt minimization is a very important thing to consider. Plus you may have an opportunity to conduct summer research at UMich if you choose Wayne. And there's always residency. Good luck with your final decision.
 
@mcloaf thanks so much... You made some great points I didn't think about before (competitive specialties/matching outside of michigan). I was thinking purely about which would make me the best physician. I guess I really should expand the factors I am considering to make this decision.

I think get scared looking at prestige because I went to a prestigious undergrad that made no difference on my job outlook after college (I struggled to find employment for a time). Is it the same for med school?


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MedSkoolz said:
@eteshoe thanks for the response. But... What if money was not a factor, what. Would your opinion be?


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If money is no issue, then you go to the place that has the best placement statistics and support for their students. In this case UMich may fit the bill. You'd be able to get some great experiences and training and most likely a better opportunity to match where you'd like. You could probably do the same at Wayne, but it may be easier to take advantage at UMich. I'd suggest you plan a visit to each school and talk to students to get a better feel of life as a med student at each.
 
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I'd say go to Wayne. Then when you finish med school and look at your loan balance you can be glad you stayed home and didn't add 72,000$ to your bill. In a vacuum it's UM but I think you have a compelling enough argument to stay put.
 
U of M hands down is a better choice as it has a great national reputation with lots of research/volunteer opportunities (Wayne is more regional, and would only benefit you if you decide you want to stay in Michigan). U of M has 170 students per class versus well over 270 at Wayne. Ann Arbor is awesome, Detroit is okay, both are almost equal distance to the airport. Less than 1 hour between Detroit and Ann Arbor.

The only reason to choose Wayne is so I can get off the instate waitlist and be a Wolverine, and not a Buckeye!!
 
As a current UM medical student who was accepted to both you would be crazy to pick Wayne over UMMS. Please feel free to PM if you want to discuss further. This is really a no brainer..........Do not over think this decision. As an in-state applicant UM is one of the best bang for your $$ medical schools in the country even taking into account your merit award at Wayne. I turned one down from Wayne as well.
 
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go to U of M. the name and reputation will get you a much better residency spot.
 
BradyC said:
As a current UM medical student who was accepted to both you would be crazy to pick Wayne over UMMS. Please feel free to PM if you want to discuss further. This is really a no brainer..........Do not over think this decision. As an in-state applicant UM is one of the best bang for your $$ medical schools in the country even taking into account your merit award at Wayne. I turned one down from Wayne as well.
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But let's not forget that OP says they really appreciate Wayne's patient population and mission - which is, from what I gather, extremely different from U Mich.

I have the sense that U Mich is pretty disconnected from Detroit and the urban underserved. I'm not saying this is a dealbreaker, and of course U Mich is an amazing school with other strengths, but if working in the inner city is what makes OP tick then U Mich is far behind Wayne. For example, the student run free clinic at U Mich is only a year old if I remember correctly.
 
occams_razor said:
U Mich does offer community based training options in Detroit at the Henry Ford Health System. They also have a student run free clinic and a Health Equity Scholars program.
https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/md-program/people-places/places/facilities
https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/md-program/opportunities/global-health-equity
https://sites.google.com/a/umich.edu/hesp/about-hesp
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True! It is certainly not impossible to get experience in Detroit or with the underserved at UMich. They have ample opportunities to do self guided learning in addition to the programs you listed.

But it's worth noting that HFHS is a private hospital, which is going to be a different experience than training in the public facilities at Wayne. The whole mission of Wayne is centered around community health and the urban underserved.

I am not saying OP shouldn't go to U Mich, just that this is a distinction that may be important to them.
 
Thanks for all your responses guys. I really appreciate it. There is a lot to think about. Although I am leaning one way, I think my final decision won't be made until after second look.


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Current UMMS student here. Foremost, U of M's student run free clinic I think is definitely more than a few years old. Also, I highly doubt you'd get much exposure to the "underserved" via being at UMich, but there are many strengths that UMich has that Wayne doesn't and vice versa. For OP, talk to someone on a one on one basis at second look to learn more about pros vs cons of Michigan as well as at Wayne State.
 
As an outsider looking in.....I say you are in a win/win either way so congratulations. I say UMICH because Wayne accepts a ton of students. I feel that relationships with professors is a very important factor and you may not get that if you go to Wayne ~120 students vs ~250 students. If money in the now time is more important than future money, then go to Wayne. Because how can a person go to school comfortably with a feeling of burden. Also in medical school 50 miles can feel like 50,000 miles in the face of tests, and medical school duties when you have loved ones. Besides residency focuses way more on board scores than on where you went to school. USMLE 230 at Wayne > USMLE 210 at UMICH. You mentioned a significant other. An SO is not the same as a spouse, but if you care about this person and don't want it ruining the relationship then Wayne.
 
Update guys: Wayne will give me between 35000-40000 and umich between 25000-30000 for financial aid.

If I go to umich I may have to drive for the first year because of the financial burden. Moving is not out the window, but because I have animals, it's been hard to find something affordable.

Does this info change anything for anyone? I'm so confused. I know you guys can't make my decision but it's helpful hearing your thoughts.

When I decide on Wayne, I can't give up the Michigan reputation and resources. When I go blue, I think of how comfortable Wayne would be (easy transition and cheap COL) and the service to Detroit.


Edit: I basically did a similar 45 minute drive for undergrad for a while so I know what it's like. I'm just concerned that with the demands of med school, my time will be more precious.
 
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So no one knows what the schedule for your M1 year will be at UMMS honestly, but I honestly doubt your drive will be very feasible. There were a lot more requirements for students for M1 year this year in terms of coming into school compared to previous years-- and don't ever forget Ann Arbor traffic and construction!-- and I'm pretty positive your first year at Michigan potentially would have lots of requirements.

I know people finances are a big concern for people, but the average medical student graduates with about ~170k in debt anyways. And doing well in medical school is critical, considering how much money and time you're putting into it. If I were you, I'd think academics first, finances later in a situation like medical school because of how high the stakes can be.

Also, Michigan has multiple people who turned down full rides at Wayne or a similar school for paying full tuition at UMMS. The UMMS admissions office should have a list of people for you to contact who chose between schools and have offered to help M0s help make their decisions. Just because you're contacting the students through the admissions office, doesn't necessarily mean the students will try to swing you one way or another. So I'd really recommend talking to some more people who were in similar positions, talking to financial aid at both places and with students who receive FA to see if FA is ever taken away from students, and thinking through more of what you want out of life. Maybe reputation & resources will make you happy; maybe being close to significant other and the city of Detroit will make you happy. Choose happiness either way though <3
 
tick_tock400 said:
So no one knows what the schedule for your M1 year will be at UMMS honestly, but I honestly doubt your drive will be very feasible. There were a lot more requirements for students for M1 year this year in terms of coming into school compared to previous years-- and don't ever forget Ann Arbor traffic and construction!-- and I'm pretty positive your first year at Michigan potentially would have lots of requirements.

I know people finances are a big concern for people, but the average medical student graduates with about ~170k in debt anyways. And doing well in medical school is critical, considering how much money and time you're putting into it. If I were you, I'd think academics first, finances later in a situation like medical school because of how high the stakes can be.

Also, Michigan has multiple people who turned down full rides at Wayne or a similar school for paying full tuition at UMMS. The UMMS admissions office should have a list of people for you to contact who chose between schools and have offered to help M0s help make their decisions. Just because you're contacting the students through the admissions office, doesn't necessarily mean the students will try to swing you one way or another. So I'd really recommend talking to some more people who were in similar positions, talking to financial aid at both places and with students who receive FA to see if FA is ever taken away from students, and thinking through more of what you want out of life. Maybe reputation & resources will make you happy; maybe being close to significant other and the city of Detroit will make you happy. Choose happiness either way though <3
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Personal opinion here, but if you're saying that the difference in debt is only 10k per year roughly, go to UMich hands down. That is a small debt differential, especially in the grand scheme of things. I also believe a degree from UM is *worth* that debt differential. That is not a knock on Wayne at all, I just think it's a merit to how great U of M is!
 
Thanks to everyone for you opinions. You guys are giving me a lot to think about.

I would love the opinion of current physicians and adcoms as well. @Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn


Edit: second look only confused me more. Lol.
 
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I know a UMMS student who rarely went to class and watched most lectures online. Also flex time quizzes helped with this life-style.

However,

I'm a little surprised that a difference of 5-10k is making you hesitant with this decision. This difference is negligent imo. These schools are in completely different tiers caliber-wise and I wouldn't choose the lesser tier because a) I don't want to commute (btw, ann arbor has some very affordable options for those with pets - trust me, i'm a local w/pets of my own) and b) because of money (again, we're talking 5-10k difference here). School-size is also important given that LORs are crucial for residency, but this point has already been made.

I think the reason you're hesitant though might not be entirely because of finances. Some of it might be because you're attached to your family. I am a family person myself, but med school is not where you want to be living with family and having family distractions interfering with your academic life, especially given how precious time is in med school. You can still be close, but it makes sense to commute to family maybe once every weekend or so than it does to commute to your future 5 times round-trip. Living on or close to campus will really help immerse you in what the medical school lifestyle is like as well. Commuting might take away from that perspective/experience.

This, in combination with all the other pro-UM'ers make UM the unquestionable choice.

Just my $0.02.
 
It's more than just money but overall, the cost difference is WAY more than that if I move. I have crunched the numbers multiple times (although I will still move after the first year). Commuting will save me tons and ensure that I won't have to worry about finances in addition to school.

In addition to the money, I'm interested in helping underprivileged communities. I know that I can always do that during residency or as an attending so I'm not really concerned about not being able to do that in medical school.

I guess I'm just curious if the prestigious name is worth the extra hassle? Or is convenience better?


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You can always do something with underprivileged pop. in Detroit during the summer between M1 and M2.

You gotta make this decision yourself so you live with no regrets. We can't make it for you.

Good luck!
 
223sarahsmith said:
You can always do something with underprivileged pop. in Detroit during the summer between M1 and M2.

You gotta make this decision yourself so you live with no regrets. We can't make it for you.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

It's not about anyone making the decision for me but about me getting as many opinions, based on experience, as possible just in case there are factors I have not considered. I want to make the most informed decision. Thanks for your input.


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The prestige IS worth the hassle. I wasn't personally impressed with Wayne's preclinical setup (older facilities, accreditation issues) but I understand the attractions as well. In this case, U MICH is the way to go.
 
This goes against my usual mentality of take the money, but with such a small (relatively speaking) difference in loans, I think the choice has to be Michigan. There is a very real difference in opportunities that open up to you in terms of match. That being said, you CAN totally just kill it at Wayne State (study harder on your own, kill your boards, do some cool research on the side), but it would take more effort on your end to do this. (Not saying it will be spoonfed to you at Michigan either though...)

At the end of the day, you should go where you're happiest. If it were me, I would always wonder what extra boost I would be losing by going to Michigan, but that's totally just me! If you think the extra commute and the extra debt will really bog you down mentally, then go to Wayne.
 
Update: difference in price is actually about 60k because non tuition cost. Umich gives way more for that.

I'm thinking that it's still worth it.
 
Hi Medskoolz, I'm not sure about the exact reasons you're questioning your decision in terms of where to matriculate; but I do not think the answer is that obvious for someone like yourself who is obviously torn for different reasons; on one side you see community and family, and on the other side, it appears as if you see "opportunity." I'm not quite understanding why loan burden is a big concern for you here, as I accept (and many students accept) that we will be paying off medical school for years to come, and many of us are at peace with that. Community and family can't exactly be put on a scale and be measured. Michigan is definitely a tough/stressful medical school (despite being pass/fail) and the new curriculum definitely will make it more intense on incoming M0s. At the end of the day, both are still excellent medical schools with excellent opportunities. Both will be stressful in different ways. You will have a MD hopefully either way! However, there are more than enough studies and anecdotes out there on how difficult medical school can often be for students, which is why I stress again (and some others have said on here too), choose your school based on where you think you will be the happiest.

My foremost recommendation right now though is to email the schools and ask for an extension (they both gave a week last year for an extension to decide). And ask UMich for more money. And maybe make a pros/cons list for each school, and while you're making it, you might realize which school you're secretly hoping to win 🙂

Best of luck!
 
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