WildZoo's WWild ZZoo Part 2 - Game Thread

[Lawpy]

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Regardless, my point in that conversation with PSV was she should reconsider reading you village off loose vibes when she’s never really played more than a cycle with you at best.

I was village reading you, and I did reevaluate, which is how I ended up at the conclusion I’m at currently. I’m asking PSV, with her limited Lawpy experience, to reevaluate and not be so quick to village read a player she doesn’t have much experience with.

Which is why I’m asking the same question to you. You’re asserting you have more experience than pshelty on me and I want to know on what games are you basing this on. In CYO 3 at least, you were mafia while pshelty and i were village. In Bowling, you and pshelty were wolves while I was getting slammed as villager for giving one-liner posts AND with AM still giving me a neutral read in D2 (yes an upper neutral is still neutral).

 

[Zenge142]

I want to know on what games are you basing this on.

This game.

 

[Zenge142]

Which is why I’m asking the same question to you. You’re asserting you have more experience than pshelty on me and I want to know on what games are you basing this on. In CYO 3 at least, you were mafia while pshelty and i were village. In Bowling, you and pshelty were wolves while I was getting slammed as villager for giving one-liner posts AND with AM still giving me a neutral read in D2 (yes an upper neutral is still neutral).

I’d say genny knows you best.

lawpy - neutral. i think of wolf!lawpy as more of a reactive player than a proactive one. i'm not seeing as much solving as what i'd expect from village!lawp

Your posts lately feel a lot more reactive.

 

[Lawpy]

Was obviously wrong on Fluff. Wrong on me. Clem feels like misyeet bait, especially if Lawpy does flip wolf

Why are you condemning me for being wrong on fluffy? Why not condemn the actual fluffy voters? And why are you under the assumption that villagers can’t have incorrect reads. From your POV, you admitted you were wrong in your AM read and was reevaling. Why am I getting criticized for having doubts on fluffy?

Wrong on you only on your POV just as you’re wrong on me from my POV

How is Clems/Nanooks a misyeet bait? And why are you ignoring your own role in actually pushing his yeet in D1?

 

[Lawpy]

This game.

Why did you ignore Okami?

 

[Lawpy]

I’d say genny knows you best.

Your posts lately feel a lot more reactive.

Lately because you started the day leveling sus charges at me which Sevens and Nanooks promptly followed?

 

[Lawpy]

On that note, my focus for today is on the fluffy voters

 

[Lawpy]

- EOD yesterday into the start of today looked more like the Khepri that I remember from spectating champs (and he was town in those games). Can't say I really understand his playstyle but it looks familiar at least. And I don't think his late pushes yesterday make sense from scum, he was in real danger of being yeeted himself so trying to whip votes onto True would be an odd choice when Fluff and I were right there for pushing.

What games did Sevens wolf in?

 

[Zenge142]

Why are you condemning me for being wrong on fluffy? Why not condemn the actual fluffy voters?

I’m not condemning you for “being wrong on fluffy”.

I take issue with the post I quoted of yours responding to Santy, because it felt like the sorry of nefarious whispers in the ear I would expect from a wolf, pushing a villager towards a misyeet possibility

 

[Lawpy]

I realized that at first he came off sort of villagey but as the game progressed it felt like he was more steering people onto potential misyeets more than actually trying to solve the game

How? Explain thoroughly. And I feel you’re ignoring your own agreement with my pushes with regards to Nates and Nanooks at least.

 

[Lawpy]

I’m not condemning you for “being wrong on fluffy”.

I take issue with the post I quoted of yours responding to Santy, because it felt like the sorry of nefarious whispers in the ear I would expect from a wolf, pushing a villager towards a misyeet possibility

I think you’re seriously confbiasing here and once you started the day thinking i’m wolf, you’re retroactively interpreting what I did in D1 as wolf indicative

 

[Lawpy]

One Small Lawpy ISO

Spoiler: Please Click

This felt like the kind of intro I'm used to from Lawpy, such that I can be used to any of his gameplay. He's done the rng "dartboard reads" before. I'd only be concerned about that if he decided to hold onto them after actual content had been generated, which he didn't.


He has a few posts like this that felt like normal, productive gameplay. Not going to quote them all, he's got four pages of posts and counting.


I found this reasonable.


Beginning of his Nate vote, not elaborated on at the moment.



More general questioning/info gathering.


Little bit of fluff sussing


Contributing to the discussion about how hard of a push Zenge is as a wolf, clarifies that Zenge has never been successfully yeeted early as a wolf (though he has been otherwise killed early as a wolf).


Shows some curiosity about Clem, there are some follow-ups to this that don't reveal more of his thoughts. But a definite focus.


Didn't jump on the chance to misyeet AM, but also no pushback. Just questioning.


Dislikes Nate's vote on Fluff.


Then goes there himself with this. Raises Clem as another option. Raises doubt on Zenge. Minor suss of MKG and defense of AM.


He is doing his traditional analysis posts where he points out stuff that happened without giving more of his thoughts. Several of these scattered through the pages.




Q&A Lawpy




Shows some concern/confusion with Khepri and Clem.


After reading everything, I'm inclined to agree. Lots of posts, I was able to generally follow his thoughts, though he keeps stuff close to the chest.


I agree with this. Defensive Lawpy always sits up in his chair to type.


Hmm. This POE feels like "list of people I think I can get them to misyeet." Not saying that there aren't wolves in this group, but if you had to make a list of the most misyeetable remaining villagers, it wouldn't be far off from this.

tl;dr (but pls read): I don't think I see the case for Howling!Lawpy, but I see why others might. He's kept his nose mostly out of trouble; no firm attacks/pushes, and his vote targets are softer ones.

Define soft softly pls. Because the POE i listed is in no way easy at all. This game is filled with professionals and one Lawpy playing like a disorganized, sketchy noob, so if I’m yeeted for that, I’ll learn to be more organized and hopefully less sketchy next time while retaining my permanoob status.

 

[Lawpy]

What is irrational about wanting to eliminate someone you think is scum?

It’s the pressuring someone to vote their TR that’s looking irrational (even if their TR is someone you’re SRing) especially given that you didn’t really convince Nanooks why he must SR Truey.

 

[Lawpy]

Going to try something here

Yeet Clems/Nanooks

 

[Lawpy]

Here’s a partially twisted Lawpy’s foil theory:

What if Nanooks is a wolf who listed his packmate in his TRs that he intends to sheep?

 

[Lawpy]

Lawpy’s push of Clem yesterday in response to you, makes me think it’s not Clem. I need to see more from MKG and genny (but if I had to guess I wouldn’t guess genny(but I could be 100% wrong there and it wouldn’t surprise me)). Could potentially see True, less so Nate but not impossible.

Uh.. why do you think Clems is more cleared than Nates in a wolf!Lawpy world?

 

[Lawpy]

More obvious than Midwife coming around to a wolf read?

Why aren’t you considering the possibility of AM coming to a village read? That’s not unprecedented. See Bowling and HZD for example

 

[Lawpy]

If Lawpy is a wolf, I could see him paired with mkg, genny, True, Nate, or Santy.
I'm village reading Santy but he said something in the MLP deadchat that was super spooky about like driving a bus over his packmate in one game and coasting on the cred to endgame. I don't think that's the most likely scenario, but I also don't want to completely count it out.

Why Nates in a wolf!Lawpy world?

 

[Lawpy]

@Lawpy : What are your thought in the people pushing for you right now? Who are your townreads? What do you think of the AM nightkill? Were you expecting it? Is affecting your reads in some way?
I would also like for you to vote someone. You are lead wagon, you can still be questioning stuff but its needed for you to try to form another wagon too. If you are town, you need to wolfhunt and be proactive in that. Right now you are letting yourself be lead wagon with little resistance on that. Fight back more (Not necessarly OMGus, just hunt for a wolf also and not limit so much to answers and separate questions). A readlist and worldview from you would help too .

I think my push is wolf-driven. I’m displeased with Zenges and Nanooks especially since the former is sussing me in retrospect of making the D1 pushes that he agreed, and the latter just sheeps into his TRs that he acknowledges are surface level.

I feel good about you, pshelty and nates.

I was surprised by the AM nightkill because I thought you or pshelty would be targeted. I think the AM nightkill was intended to frame me. It’s highly likely wolves saw Zenges’s repeated asking of AM for her read on me and seeing AM’s answer as neutral solidified the decision to kill her and set me up as a misyeet bait.

I’m voting for Nanooks and agreed with your last paragraph. I want to see more from MKG too

 

[Clem J]

In that case, you can refer to the My Little Pony game we had here about a month ago. That was the game before last and my most recent wolf game, so probably the best place to look for a comparison to this game/last game.

I barely have the time and motivation to read this game lol, im not doing a meta dive

 

[Clem J]

Actually looking back on this, it feels like Lawpy’s goal may have been to continue to exacerbate the annoyances and resentments people were feeling about Clems play.

I thought it was a reasonable question

 

[Clem J]

This is superficial and vague

Its vague for sure

 

[Clem J]

Here’s a partially twisted Lawpy’s foil theory:

What if Nanooks is a wolf who listed his packmate in his TRs that he intends to sheep?

That is something I'd probably do lol

Unfortunately for your theory sheeping is a key part of game, particularly when I'm time constrained

 

[Clem J]

That is something I'd probably do lol

Unfortunately for your theory sheeping is a key part of game, particularly when I'm time constrained

*key part of my game

 

[kaydubs]

Day 2: The Ants Just Wanna Have FUN Vote Tally

True (2) - Santy, genny
Lawpy (2) - Clem, Zenge
genny (1) -Khepri
Clem (1) - Lawpy

6/10

Missing: @mkg323 @NateTheLesser @potentialsheltervet @Truenamer

Vote closes at 10pm EDT TODAY (~15.75 hours)

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Why Nates in a wolf!Lawpy world?

Because I haven't seen anything unpairing.

I barely have the time and motivation to read this game lol, im not doing a meta dive

Okay, then don't say you'd have to compare my play this game/last game to past wolf games to draw a conclusion.

 

[Clem J]

Because I haven't seen anything unpairing.

Okay, then don't say you'd have to compare my play this game/last game to past wolf games to draw a conclusion.

???

I mean, thats what I'd have to do for his point to be meaningful, whether i do it or not is irrelevant to that

 

[potentialsheltervet]

???

I mean, thats what I'd have to do for his point to be meaningful, whether i do it or not is irrelevant to that

What I'm saying is, Santy played my wolf game and last game where I'm village. So if you're saying meta comparison is needed... he's already done that. He played it.

 

[mkg323]

So I have a **** ton of quotes saved to go over during lunch, and people to get back to, apologies for being away yesterday.
General thoughts: AM getting killed N1 was definitely an interesting choice, I feel like there is definitely an SDNer in the pack that wanted her gone. I know in the past Alley tends to target AM early as a wolf, I’d have to look back at other games but either True or Genny would be my guess here tbh.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

General thoughts: AM getting killed N1 was definitely an interesting choice, I feel like there is definitely an SDNer in the pack that wanted her gone. I know in the past Alley tends to target AM early as a wolf, I’d have to look back at other games but either True or Genny would be my guess here tbh.

Lol I thought you were going to say you think Alley is a wolf and I was like fam...

 

[potentialsheltervet]

So I have a **** ton of quotes saved to go over during lunch, and people to get back to, apologies for being away yesterday.
General thoughts: AM getting killed N1 was definitely an interesting choice, I feel like there is definitely an SDNer in the pack that wanted her gone. I know in the past Alley tends to target AM early as a wolf, I’d have to look back at other games but either True or Genny would be my guess here tbh.

I'm very interested to hear your thoughts and also why you're looking at True/genny.

 

[Khepri]

Who is Alley?

 

[Khepri]

Oh, someone not in the game.

 

[NateTheLesser]

[...] as I was looking through everything I came to the conclusion that Midwife was only a wolf if exactly Lawpy was her pack mate.

Can you expand on this a bit? You don't need to pull quotes or anything, just want to hear more about why you thought they were paired since that's what got you onto the wolf!Lawpy track.

 

[NateTheLesser]

why would i expect AM to be killed? I was thinking you, honestly. or psv since you're both so widely village read.

zenge - village lean, though if lawpy flips village this would change.
true - wolf lean
lawpy - neutral. i think of wolf!lawpy as more of a reactive player than a proactive one. i'm not seeing as much solving as what i'd expect from village!lawp

yeet true

Do you have other leans, one way or the other?

 

[NateTheLesser]

The fact that AM was the night kill has been bugging me all day.

But would that be too obvious for Lawpy on D1?

Is it still bugging you? Do you think it was just a fearkill?

 

[mkg323]

I want to see more content from @mkg323 please

Villagers: Khepri, Fluff, AM
Town: MKG, PSV, Nate
Tinfoil scumteam but otherwise Town: Santygrass, Clem

PoE: Zenge, Genny, True, Lawpy

I think if Lawpy is scum, Zenge is town.
I think if Zenge is scum, Lawpy is town.
I think if Zenge is scum, True is scum.
I don't think Genny and True are unpaired even though Genny called out True day 1.

I think if we just yeet between those four we can solve the game. I like Zenge a lot today so I'd like to go one of the other three.

I’m still weirded out by your read of me, js.

Looking at the events of D1, i think wolves are within Truey, genny, Zenges, Nanooks +/- MKG

So your ok with Clem rn??

I will tell you, testing the strength of his town read wasn't on my mind. So given that, why does it rub you the wrong way?

That's not it. I feel like you've been asking a lot of questions and pointing things out but it comes off as information instead of analysis. I'm not sure I see you developing a push from your inquiries.

Credibility. Specifically credibility due to familiarity in this instance. Santy was arguing that SDN folks are familiar with Zenge and thus if they are town reading them we should trust that. However, I am saying that because SDN folks do not actually have a track record of reading Zenge correctly, their familiarity is irrelevant.

Idk why I quoted this, tbh. Maybe I’ll remember later??

Explain the Nates vote pls. Because this vote and explanation looked like a counter to the Truey wagon

You answered your own question bub, I wasn’t willing to get on a waffle wagon so I stuck to voting for the person I felt meh about.

@genny @Truenamer @mkg323 Thoughts on Lawpy? I know Zenge thinks he's a wolf, but I'm not seeing what he's seeing and I'm wondering if it's a skill issue on my part.

Lawpy is hard. I’ve never seen a wolf lawpy, and I haven’t played with him in a long time so I don’t really want to make my read off of meta. He’s had things that ping me, but I wouldn’t go as far as Zenge with saying that he needs to flip because AM died.

I realize this isn’t the most helpful post but not being wolf read by everyone is throwing off my feng shui.

 

[NateTheLesser]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong: we're essentially in 8v2 mountainous now, since losing our jailer makes the remaining wolf PRs kinda useless. So a winning POE is 4, aka winning Towncore is 6. If I start with Me/Santy/Khepri/PSV we're most of the way there. Who else wants in?

@Khepri - Talk to me more about your Genny read, I feel like we differ there. I thought she was reasonably towny yesterday. You mentioned a tinfoil Genny/Santy team I believe, do you think she's wolfy independently of that tinfoil?

@Santygrass - Still feeling good about your towncore? Who else would you pull in?

@potentialsheltervet - What's your read of True at this point? You've seemed more conflicted there than with your other reads.

 

[Zenge142]

True or Genny would be my guess here tbh.

Okay but hear me out…Lawpy

 

[Zenge142]

Can you expand on this a bit? You don't need to pull quotes or anything, just want to hear more about why you thought they were paired since that's what got you onto the wolf!Lawpy track.

I was reevaluating if I was wrong about AM, and the pack didn’t make sense for her to really be pairs with most other players except Lawpy, and then I looked at Lawpy individually.

 

[mkg323]

Okay but hear me out…Lawpy

Spoiler: You rn

 

[genny]

Do you have other leans, one way or the other?

Yes. Santa and psv seem village, Zenge is mostly there too.
You, mkg, Lawpy neutral.
A titch slimy: khepri, Clem
True seems wolfiest at the moment.

 

[Zenge142]

Spoiler: You rn

View attachment 360461

MK pls…. What kind of self deprecating memes can you promise me if Lawpy flips wolf?

 

[Santygrass]

I was reevaluating if I was wrong about AM, and the pack didn’t make sense for her to really be pairs with most other players except Lawpy, and then I looked at Lawpy individually.

Explain more. Why Am/Me wouldnt make sense for example? Or other pairings and stuff. I dont think AM had unapiring stuff to start with. Is it based on the fact that you think V!AM would know that we are with W!Lawpy?

 

[Santygrass]

@Santygrass - Still feeling good about your towncore? Who else would you pull in?

Yes. The slot that I feel most good out of towncore rn is Genny. PoE is True/Lawpy, with Zenge in upper PoE maybe.

That would leave me MKG and Clem, with one space in PoE and other in towncore, but couldnt really lean much in one way tbh? Feel better about Clem than MKG but that could be biased in me knowing them so w/e

 

[Khepri]

It’s the pressuring someone to vote their TR that’s looking irrational (even if their TR is someone you’re SRing) especially given that you didn’t really convince Nanooks why he must SR Truey.

No it isn't. I've frequently seen Nanook vote people he town reads if it's "for the cause." I do the same. If I'm town reading someone but they either need to be eliminated to move the game forward, or my town core is scum reading them, I will vote them to consolidate. Nanook did this several times in recent games I've played with him, including voting me when I was his town read SMH.

What I'm saying is, Santy played my wolf game and last game where I'm village. So if you're saying meta comparison is needed... he's already done that. He played it.

I agree with PSV here Nanook. Why do you need to personally review the meta? I trust Santy's assessment.

 

[Zenge142]

Explain more. Why Am/Me wouldnt make sense for example? Or other pairings and stuff. I dont think AM had unapiring stuff to start with. Is it based on the fact that you think V!AM would know that we are with W!Lawpy?

I mean it was a loose working idea I had 2 days ago. I’m not going to clog the thread debating who could have been in AM’s Pack when she’s dead and flipped village.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

@potentialsheltervet - What's your read of True at this point? You've seemed more conflicted there than with your other reads.

So here's some backstory, because I think it is necessary in this case:
I had a really good track record of reading True. As in, needed maybe two posts to figure out his alignment. Then a few games ago he was a wolf and I decided to ignore the vague tickle in my stomach and yeet him into my village pile. Last game I came in hot thinking he sounded like wolf!True. He was village.
So basically, I'm conflicted because I could see wolf!True, but my heart wants it to be village!True. I'm hesitant to claim a read either way because, uh, I've been pretty wrong lately on him. And it hurts me to yeet True if I'm not confident he's wolfing because it makes me really sad.
He's still sorta neutral all things considered because I don't really think he's said anything AI thus far.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I agree with PSV here Nanook. Why do you need to personally review the meta? I trust Santy's assessment.

He also said he isn't going to go look at my past games so I don't even get the point. "Yeah I guess I see what you're saying, but also I would need to make a decision for myself but I don't want to do that."
Seems like you're just hedging to give room to waffle later. 🤷‍♂️

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Super random, but I'm trying to imagine the flavor of a leafcutter ant being the jailer. Picturing a tiny ant scrambling to grab leaves and build a lil' leaf fort to keep like a cheetah or bear inside their enclosure. "YOU-" puff puff "SHALL NOT PASS!"