2012-2013 Brown University Application Thread

[gettheleadout]

1. Summarize your activities during the 2012-2013 academic year. Describe how your activities are preparing you for a medical career.

NOTE: Interviews occur on Thursdays and/or Fridays beginning in late September and finishing in mid-February. Please let us know of any limitations on your availability during this time, such as international travel, work or courses. (3000 Characters)

2. How will your unique attributes (e.g., cultural or socioeconomic background, lifestyle, work experiences) add to the overall diversity of the Alpert Medical School community? (3000 Characters)

3. What are your aspirations for your medical practice? Fast-forward to 15 years in the future: where do you imagine yourself?(3000 Characters)

Good luck to everyone applying!

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[Iorek Byrnison]

Just want to say hello! I'm an MS2 at Brown so please feel free to ask me any questions you want about the school, the students, and the faculty! If I don't personally know the answer, I'll make sure to pass on the query to someone who does.

Best of luck!

 

[Procyon]

Just want to say hello! I'm an MS2 at Brown so please feel free to ask me any questions you want about the school, the students, and the faculty! If I don't personally know the answer, I'll make sure to pass on the query to someone who does.

Best of luck!

I just wanted to tell you I like your name. Iorek Byrnison is a badass. Although I'm still mildly frightened of what he did to Lee Scoresby.

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

I just wanted to tell you I like your name. Iorek Byrnison is a badass. Although I'm still mildly frightened of what he did to Lee Scoresby.

Haha, much obliged! I'm just glad someone got the reference. And I agree, though polar bears in general are just always ferocious, as displayed in exhibit A: http://imgur.com/gallery/M5Lgo

 

[Procyon]

Hahaha, that's sort of adorable. Anyway, how do you like Brown/what's your opinion on it?

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

Hahaha, that's sort of adorable. Anyway, how do you like Brown/what's your opinion on it?

To put it simply, it's a classy place with classy people.

If I had to pick my top 3 favorite aspects, I'd say it would be the receptiveness of the faculty, the class dynamic, and the quality of life here.

To expound a bit, the faculty here are incredibly friendly and it's extremely easy to find mentors that will provide clinical experiences, research opportunities, involvement in course development, and support for student led initiatives. People here are just plain nice and eager to help you succeed. If you're interested in a particular specialty, chances are there is already an established student interest group that can set up shadowing opportunities or if you prefer, you're more than welcome to e-mail professors directly and set up some shadowing independently. Likewise, we have the scholarly concentration program which can link you with mentors and similarly passionate students interested in a wide range of topics (http://brown.edu/academics/medical/education/scholarly-concentration-program). Regardless as to whether you participate in the SC program, summer funding is also pretty easy to come by (this past year, anyone who took the time to find a faculty sponsor and to write out a well thought out proposal got funding). People are working on a variety of projects (a good friend of mine works on physician use of meditative techniques to improve quality, I work on infectious disease policy, I have friends working on health education abroad, and others strengthening and designing new curriculum components here at the med school, and of course, there are people working on basic, translational, and clinical research). Basically, whatever your interest is, there's an avenue through which to explore it.

As for the class dynamic, I think much of the credit goes to the office of admissions and the admissions committee (if you interview here, you'll get to meet the Director of Admissions, Barbara, and the Admissions Program Coordinator, Melissa, both of whom are incredibly nice). Everyone is just relaxed and friendly. Post exam party invites will be sent out to the entire class and the same holds true with random outings to go hiking, biking, swimming, and whatever else is going on. Likewise, the same students who memorize every lecture, every, tangent, and every corollary of random medical minutia, are also the very same students who put together brilliant charts, mock exams, and slide decks, and post them online so the entire class can benefit.

Which leads me to my third point, the quality of life factor. Coming into the application process I was under the general perception that med school is supposed to be stressful, difficult, and to a certain extent dehumanizing, so I was a little suspicious when I came across an odd trait of the students here...they were happy. Truth is, between having faculty who care , classmates who are supportive and fun to hang out with, and a cozy city to enjoy yourself in, life can be pretty grand. The three week block schedule means that, depending on your study habits, you can spend a devote a good deal of time to extra-curriculars or to just relaxing during non exam weeks (mind you, I also know people who prefer to just spend their time studying diligently so that their test weeks aren't too strenuous). For the east coast, the cost of living here is wicked affordable, which in addition to good financial aid, allows me to have more variety for dinner choices than what is offered by ramen noodle spice packets. Combined with that, there's a good restaurants all over town (for Italian food though, federal hill is a must) and a good bar and club scene . There's great jogging routes all around, the east bay bike path is close, and solid hiking about 45 minutes out of town. This is Rhode Island so of course there are beaches to make good use of. Some of my classmates surf, and one of my good friends has a 24 ft sailboat he likes to take classmates out on during nice weekends. Put all together I would say I'm enjoying med school even more than undergrad (and I loved undergrad). The material can be challenging at times and the drinking from a fire hose analogy is completely accurate, but nevertheless, I simply love being here.


So... this kinda got far lengthier than I had originally intended but I won't be able to respond to any posts for about the two weeks, so I wanted to cover as much ground as I could. Please feel free to post or pm me any additional questions; I'll get to them as soon as I get a chance. Anyhow, it's a WaterFire night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaterFire) so I'm off. Cheers!

 

[SaintJude]

Thank you, Iorek, for visiting the forum. It seems like Brown is the only medical school with such a heavy emphasis on scholarly concentration. How does this emphasis impact school life? Is there a silent consensus on the "strongest" and/or "weakest" concentrations?

Did you factor that in your application process?

 

[Procyon]

To put it simply, it's a classy place with classy people.

If I had to pick my top 3 favorite aspects, I'd say it would be the receptiveness of the faculty, the class dynamic, and the quality of life here.

To expound a bit, the faculty here are incredibly friendly and it's extremely easy to find mentors that will provide clinical experiences, research opportunities, involvement in course development, and support for student led initiatives. People here are just plain nice and eager to help you succeed. If you're interested in a particular specialty, chances are there is already an established student interest group that can set up shadowing opportunities or if you prefer, you're more than welcome to e-mail professors directly and set up some shadowing independently. Likewise, we have the scholarly concentration program which can link you with mentors and similarly passionate students interested in a wide range of topics (http://brown.edu/academics/medical/education/scholarly-concentration-program). Regardless as to whether you participate in the SC program, summer funding is also pretty easy to come by (this past year, anyone who took the time to find a faculty sponsor and to write out a well thought out proposal got funding). People are working on a variety of projects (a good friend of mine works on physician use of meditative techniques to improve quality, I work on infectious disease policy, I have friends working on health education abroad, and others strengthening and designing new curriculum components here at the med school, and of course, there are people working on basic, translational, and clinical research). Basically, whatever your interest is, there's an avenue through which to explore it.

As for the class dynamic, I think much of the credit goes to the office of admissions and the admissions committee (if you interview here, you'll get to meet the Director of Admissions, Barbara, and the Admissions Program Coordinator, Melissa, both of whom are incredibly nice). Everyone is just relaxed and friendly. Post exam party invites will be sent out to the entire class and the same holds true with random outings to go hiking, biking, swimming, and whatever else is going on. Likewise, the same students who memorize every lecture, every, tangent, and every corollary of random medical minutia, are also the very same students who put together brilliant charts, mock exams, and slide decks, and post them online so the entire class can benefit.

Which leads me to my third point, the quality of life factor. Coming into the application process I was under the general perception that med school is supposed to be stressful, difficult, and to a certain extent dehumanizing, so I was a little suspicious when I came across an odd trait of the students here...they were happy. Truth is, between having faculty who care , classmates who are supportive and fun to hang out with, and a cozy city to enjoy yourself in, life can be pretty grand. The three week block schedule means that, depending on your study habits, you can spend a devote a good deal of time to extra-curriculars or to just relaxing during non exam weeks (mind you, I also know people who prefer to just spend their time studying diligently so that their test weeks aren't too strenuous). For the east coast, the cost of living here is wicked affordable, which in addition to good financial aid, allows me to have more variety for dinner choices than what is offered by ramen noodle spice packets. Combined with that, there's a good restaurants all over town (for Italian food though, federal hill is a must) and a good bar and club scene . There's great jogging routes all around, the east bay bike path is close, and solid hiking about 45 minutes out of town. This is Rhode Island so of course there are beaches to make good use of. Some of my classmates surf, and one of my good friends has a 24 ft sailboat he likes to take classmates out on during nice weekends. Put all together I would say I'm enjoying med school even more than undergrad (and I loved undergrad). The material can be challenging at times and the drinking from a fire hose analogy is completely accurate, but nevertheless, I simply love being here.


So... this kinda got far lengthier than I had originally intended but I won't be able to respond to any posts for about the two weeks, so I wanted to cover as much ground as I could. Please feel free to post or pm me any additional questions; I'll get to them as soon as I get a chance. Anyhow, it's a WaterFire night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaterFire) so I'm off. Cheers!

Thanks for this post! It's incredibly helpful and insightful. To be honest, I'm sold. If I can nail down that good MCAT score now, I'd love to apply to Brown.

 

[GooseWing]

If you're interested in a particular specialty, chances are there is already an established student interest group that can set up shadowing opportunities or if you prefer, you're more than welcome to e-mail professors directly and set up some shadowing independently.

On this, I have a quick question. I'm interested in otolaryngology and last I checked, I didn't see that Brown had an otolaryngology residency program. Is there a student interest group for otolaryngology? And do you think it is necessary for the MD school you attend to have a department for your specialty of choice? I've heard this is important for letters of recommendation and such.

Thanks!

EDIT: Did additional research. Oto program exists. *OOPS*

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

Thank you, Iorek, for visiting the forum. It seems like Brown is the only medical school with such a heavy emphasis on scholarly concentration. How does this emphasis impact school life? Is there a silent consensus on the "strongest" and/or "weakest" concentrations?

Did you factor that in your application process?

Good questions. I'm tuckered out from studying endocrine and need a break so I figure I might as well try to be helpful.

I think the impact of the SC Program depends on a couple variables. First, it is an optional program and everyone is welcome to find research and other opportunities through other avenues and while the application for summer funding is streamlined with the SC application for convenience, you have the option to apply just for summer funding alone. Second, the time commitment and level of involvement depends on the SC you apply for. We have plenty of opportunities to get to know the SC leaders and to hear how each SC is run so you know what you are getting into. I like my SC, Health Policy because it's pretty relaxed. We meet once a month and write a quick note (you can write as much as you want but you only need a page) each block on how policy affects the current topic of study. For the most part though, the purpose is to bounce ideas off your fellow students and the SC leaders as you work on your own projects with your direct mentor and for health policy at least, to have additional help with the writing process when you're working on a publishable paper. Also, trying to use the terms strongest or weakest to describe the SCs kinda misses the point. For example, global health has been one of the most in demand SCs the past few years, but if I had to choose the most productive and impactful SC, I would say, medical education (also pretty popular actually), since they work on curriculum improvement and have provided many of the study materials and learning tools everyone in my class relies upon. Simultaneous, Health Policy is a new concentration with just a handful of students but we have two great mentors, one of whom advises a spattering of policy making and influencing institutions (Gates Foundation, WHO, World Bank, Rockefeller Foundation). SCs are meant to support you, offer you a forum for idea exchange, and offer additional mentorship but at the end of the day, you still need to be passionate about your work so it's always best to just apply to one based on your interests.

Regardless, you only apply for SC's near the beginning of your second semester so you have the first semester to acclimate and figure out what kind research you want to do or what kind of project or program you want to implement. And yes, I mentioned the SC concentration in my application, as with a number of other programs I now take part in.

Also, just a heads, up. This sort of student support for research and program development has thankfully become more popular over the years. Stanford has had a similar SC program for a while (not sure which one came first), Einstein Medical in NY is launching a program with a similar purpose called SOAR, I think Harvard is starting one up soon, and then you have a number of other schools like Columbia and Yale where students can either choose or are required to write a thesis though I have no idea what their structure for mentorship and support is.

Also, I'm pasting below a response I wrote for people applying this past year who wanted to know more about the program. Very good chance some of the info is repeated from what I've already written above but I hope it might be of some value.

___________________________

Q: Can any current students talk about the Scholarly Concentrations Program? I was browsing the website and some concentrations have limits on the number of students accepted. How competitive is it and is it easy to find a mentor? About what percentage of the class participates? Is it a significant amount of extra work?


A: All most excellent questions. Each SC generally has two leaders who are selected from the faculty. As you might imagine, they typically have a major interest and a good amount of experience in their respective concentration's topic field. While you can most certainly seek these leaders out as mentors, the only requirement is that your mentor is a member of Brown faculty (of course they can be med school faculty but you're more than welcome to select faculty from other departments, grad or undergrad). Generally you find a mentor on your own but if you want the process to be facilitated for you, there's plenty of options, and there's an SC fair towards the end of first semester where you will meet the concentration leaders and they can help you contact faculty who have projects in line with your interests or who can help you with projects you're developing from scratch. As long as you give yourself time, I'd say it's pretty easy to find a mentor, especially given the diversity of faculty interests.

The competitiveness varies of course by concentration. From what I've seen, a well thought out project will get accepted regardless of where you apply and chances are good that a project could fit well within several SC focuses. I have the feeling that global health in past years has may have been a tad more selective than the other concentrations simply because of the popularity of traveling abroad (for the global health nuts out there, yes, I know that domestic issues are a part of it!). They also are the only concentration that requires that you receive a recommendation not only from your mentor but also with someone at the community site you will be working at if you are traveling abroad (sound reasoning). In past years we were told at least a third of the class participates in the SC program. My class is a tad different and I'd feel safe betting that at least half (if not a far greater proportion) of us are doing one although that's purely speculation. I've asked around and been told that the workload you are committing to is pretty variable. For the most part, people get the vast majority of their research or project done over the course of the summer when free time is of course easier to come by and then tend to take things easy during the academic year, writing up their conclusions and presenting at conferences when appropriate. I've been doing work related to my SC throughout the year but that is by no means expected or asked for (it's nice though if you're like me and need side projects to keep yourself content). In addition, each SC focus has additional components independent of your project. Most have some form of a monthly meeting/lecture/discussion on a topic of interest. Some have a short writing component. Education (speaking without biased since it is not my SC) is particularly interesting since the emphasis is on hands on curriculum reform and teaching within the medical school.

As you likely discovered, you can receive summer funding for your SC project but you can apply for summer funding separately if you so wish. The trade off of course is that you have less support and fewer people with whom to regularly discuss your project but you also have fewer requirements to comply with (which vary significantly between SC topic areas). The summer funding application is included in the SC app though again, you can apply for summer funding without applying to an SC and vice versa. You are also accepted into both separately as well, so admission into an SC does not guarantee summer funding. Generally, everyone who puts together a well thought out proposal (they give you plenty of opportunities to submit drafts so you can edit before the final deadline) obtains funding which comes out to $3,500 (students doing basic and translational research can apply for a larger stipend of $4,370). The review committee members takes their jobs seriously and your proposal decision comes with a full critique (mine was helpful and more than fair). By accepting funding you commit 8-10 weeks of your summer to your project but by no means are you restricted to your project alone (some of us are teaching this summer and engaging in other pursuits).

Hope this was at least moderately helpful! If there's anything you'd like me to hash out further, just say the word!

 

[BurntFlower]

To put it simply, it's a classy place with classy people.

If I had to pick my top 3 favorite aspects, I'd say it would be the receptiveness of the faculty, the class dynamic, and the quality of life here.

To expound a bit, the faculty here are incredibly friendly and it's extremely easy to find mentors that will provide clinical experiences, research opportunities, involvement in course development, and support for student led initiatives. People here are just plain nice and eager to help you succeed. If you're interested in a particular specialty, chances are there is already an established student interest group that can set up shadowing opportunities or if you prefer, you're more than welcome to e-mail professors directly and set up some shadowing independently. Likewise, we have the scholarly concentration program which can link you with mentors and similarly passionate students interested in a wide range of topics (http://brown.edu/academics/medical/education/scholarly-concentration-program). Regardless as to whether you participate in the SC program, summer funding is also pretty easy to come by (this past year, anyone who took the time to find a faculty sponsor and to write out a well thought out proposal got funding). People are working on a variety of projects (a good friend of mine works on physician use of meditative techniques to improve quality, I work on infectious disease policy, I have friends working on health education abroad, and others strengthening and designing new curriculum components here at the med school, and of course, there are people working on basic, translational, and clinical research). Basically, whatever your interest is, there's an avenue through which to explore it.

As for the class dynamic, I think much of the credit goes to the office of admissions and the admissions committee (if you interview here, you'll get to meet the Director of Admissions, Barbara, and the Admissions Program Coordinator, Melissa, both of whom are incredibly nice). Everyone is just relaxed and friendly. Post exam party invites will be sent out to the entire class and the same holds true with random outings to go hiking, biking, swimming, and whatever else is going on. Likewise, the same students who memorize every lecture, every, tangent, and every corollary of random medical minutia, are also the very same students who put together brilliant charts, mock exams, and slide decks, and post them online so the entire class can benefit.

Which leads me to my third point, the quality of life factor. Coming into the application process I was under the general perception that med school is supposed to be stressful, difficult, and to a certain extent dehumanizing, so I was a little suspicious when I came across an odd trait of the students here...they were happy. Truth is, between having faculty who care , classmates who are supportive and fun to hang out with, and a cozy city to enjoy yourself in, life can be pretty grand. The three week block schedule means that, depending on your study habits, you can spend a devote a good deal of time to extra-curriculars or to just relaxing during non exam weeks (mind you, I also know people who prefer to just spend their time studying diligently so that their test weeks aren't too strenuous). For the east coast, the cost of living here is wicked affordable, which in addition to good financial aid, allows me to have more variety for dinner choices than what is offered by ramen noodle spice packets. Combined with that, there's a good restaurants all over town (for Italian food though, federal hill is a must) and a good bar and club scene . There's great jogging routes all around, the east bay bike path is close, and solid hiking about 45 minutes out of town. This is Rhode Island so of course there are beaches to make good use of. Some of my classmates surf, and one of my good friends has a 24 ft sailboat he likes to take classmates out on during nice weekends. Put all together I would say I'm enjoying med school even more than undergrad (and I loved undergrad). The material can be challenging at times and the drinking from a fire hose analogy is completely accurate, but nevertheless, I simply love being here.


So... this kinda got far lengthier than I had originally intended but I won't be able to respond to any posts for about the two weeks, so I wanted to cover as much ground as I could. Please feel free to post or pm me any additional questions; I'll get to them as soon as I get a chance. Anyhow, it's a WaterFire night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaterFire) so I'm off. Cheers!

Very thorough, excellent post! We certainly appreciate it.

On the other hand, do you feel there are any significant downsides to the program?

 

[SaintJude]

Is it true that Brown is P/F only the first semester ?! That would be so sad...

Wait:

Medical students are graded on an Honors/Satisfactory/No Credit basis. The Medical Curriculum Committee has permitted some courses (especially those in the first semester of the first year) to use a mandatory S/NC grading system in which no honors grades are awarded.

womp. womp. womp. too bad--i liked this school.

Iorek has this non-pass/fail system caused you lots of stress?

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

On this, I have a quick question. I'm interested in otolaryngology and last I checked, I didn't see that Brown had an otolaryngology residency program. Is there a student interest group for otolaryngology? And do you think it is necessary for the MD school you attend to have a department for your specialty of choice? I've heard this is important for letters of recommendation and such.

Thanks!

EDIT: Did additional research. Oto program exists. *OOPS*

Glad you were able to snag some info while I was pre-occupied with the terror that is endocrine. To get to your second part, there is indeed an oto interest group though I don't think they were super active this year (still, they're on the books and that means they have the option to pull money from the med school senate if they want to run any events in the future). In general it's super easy to e-mail up professors, order a bunch of food for lunch talks, and get them to talk about their experiences and the field. We also have regular lunch talks organized by the school called Careers in Medicine or CIM for short and ENT is one of the specialties that came. Hope this is of some help!

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

Very thorough, excellent post! We certainly appreciate it.

On the other hand, do you feel there are any significant downsides to the program?

That my good madame is the most important question you could ask of me or any med student at any other school so I'm glad you asked it.

As you can tell, I'm very fond of my school so bear in mind, everything that follows is somewhat nitpicky and based on personal preference. I'd say one of the things I am not a huge fan of is small group sessions and PBL. Brown's curriculum is still primarily lecture based but it is a bit of a hybrid with a number of problem based learning sessions tossed in (usually only 3 or so a block but this past block we had about 7 sessions in 3 weeks. I am a huge fan of listening to recorded lectures at my leisure (and also at double the normal speed) which gives me a good deal of flex time during the week. Small groups however are required and I am a highly independent learner so I just don't get as much out of them as I do out of personal study time. That said, small groups are run fairly well with each group run by a highly competent member of the faculty who works in the specialty that we're currently studying.

Depending on who you talk to, the Doctoring course lecture and small group portion could be improved. The general consensus is that, when we're focusing on physical examination skill development, the course is run quite well though the pre small group lecture could be shortened. I do think that some of the course sessions that explore humanism in medicine could be polished a little so that we get the same content but in an abbreviated time period (keep in mind, these sessions are for 3 hours tops, once a week, and most of them had a focus on physical exam skills). Again, overall, I really enjoyed the Doctoring lectures and small groups and learned a great deal. I also know it'll be an even stronger program next year because there are several docs and students who work hard to improve it every year.

As for general aspects of the curriculum, I find the vast majority of our lecturers to be excellent but every blue moon we get a dud. The good thing is that the school has been extremely responsive in the past (sometimes obsessively so in that, they will plead for you to fill out your evals if they don't have enough from the class) to the course evals we fill out and if a lecturer is sub-par, they get replaced.

Now onto the aspect I personally do not think is a downside but that I know everyone who's researched into it is thinking about...the grading system. Yes, Brown is P/F for the first semester only and then moves onto H/P/F. First off, no one really cares if you honor since A) residencies don't really care much about pre-clinicals so long as you pass them, B) it has no effect whatsoever on AOA admission and C) it just isn't part of the school culture to get worked up about it. Personally, I think it's like one of those "nice job!" stickers I used to put on undergrad papers if the student wrote exceptionally well. That's all it is, a nice acknowledgement of your efforts without any influence on your long term success except for the fact that if you tend to do particularly well on your exams, you are likely to do particularly well on your USMLE Step 1 (and those matter to everyone!!!).

Edit: To answer your question directly SaintJude, no, it doesn't cause me any stress at all. I know what counts and that will be Step 1 scores and clinical grades (which are based on a pretty universal system). Still, I endeavor to do well simply because I enjoy the material and because it really does become applicable quickly (we had a little girl come into the ER with an endocrine metabolic issue this past week and before this block I would have been fairly clueless on how to talk to the family about it.

So there you have it. As you can tell, I really don't have much to complain about.

 

[SaintJude]

That my good sir is the most important question you could ask of me or any med student at any other school so I'm glad you asked it.

As you can tell, I'm very fond of my school so bear in mind, everything that follows is somewhat nitpicky and based on personal preference. I'd say one of the things I am not a huge fan of is small group sessions and PBL. Brown's curriculum is still primarily lecture based but it is a bit of a hybrid with a number of problem based learning sessions tossed in (usually only 3 or so a block but this past block we had about 7 sessions in 3 weeks. I am a huge fan of listening to recorded lectures at my leisure (and also at double the normal speed) which gives me a good deal of flex time during the week. Small groups however are required and I am a highly independent learner so I just don't get as much out of them as I do out of personal study time. That said, small groups are run fairly well with each group run by a highly competent member of the faculty who works in the specialty that we're currently studying.

Depending on who you talk to, the Doctoring course lecture and small group portion could be improved. The general consensus is that, when we're focusing on physical examination skill development, the course is run quite well though the pre small group lecture could be shortened. I do think that some of the course sessions that explore humanism in medicine could be polished a little so that we get the same content but in an abbreviated time period (keep in mind, these sessions are for 3 hours tops, once a week, and most of them had a focus on physical exam skills). Again, overall, I really enjoyed the Doctoring lectures and small groups and learned a great deal. I also know it'll be an even stronger program next year because there are several docs and students who work hard to improve it every year.

As for general aspects of the curriculum, I find the vast majority of our lecturers to be excellent but every blue moon we get a dud. The good thing is that the school has been extremely responsive in the past (sometimes obsessively so in that, they will plead for you to fill out your evals if they don't have enough from the class) to the course evals we fill out and if a lecturer is sub-par, they get replaced.

Now onto the aspect I personally do not think is a downside but that I know everyone who's researched into it is thinking about...the grading system. Yes, Brown is P/F for the first semester only and then moves onto H/P/F. First off, no one really cares if you honor since A) residencies don't really care much about pre-clinicals so long as you pass them, B) it has no effect whatsoever on AOA admission and C) it just isn't part of the school culture to get worked up about it. Personally, I think it's like one of those "nice job!" stickers I used to put on undergrad papers if the student wrote exceptionally well. That's all it is, a nice acknowledgement of your efforts without any influence on your long term success except for the fact that if you tend to do particularly well on your exams, you are likely to do particularly well on your USMLE Step 1 (and those matter to everyone!!!).

Edit: To answer your question directly SaintJude, no, it doesn't cause me any stress at all. I know what counts and that will be Step 1 scores and clinical grades (which are based on a pretty universal system). Still, I endeavor to do well simply because I enjoy the material and because it really does become applicable quickly (we had a little girl come into the ER with an endocrine metabolic issue this past week and before this block I would have been fairly clueless on how to talk to the family about it.

So there you have it. As you can tell, I really don't have much to complain about.

"Thank you" would be an understatement...

 

[SaintJude]

One last question: do you know anything about the concentration in contemplative studies?

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

One last question: do you know anything about the concentration in contemplative studies?

Haven't had much contact with it but I do have a friend in it who loves it. Last time I checked. she's exploring how mindfulness techniques have an effect on clinical quality and is going on a week long meditative retreat this summer in NY state.

I also met a girl (either a 3rd or 4th year now) who basically spent her summer just travelling around Tibet, going to Buddhist temples and learning whatever she could and writing it up in a research manuscript. All in all, not a bad way to spend a summer.

 

[Lafakads]

I'm interested in apply here but I heard they its not OOSF????

But when I looked at the MSAR its seems the opposite, seeing if there is anything im missing. Hopefully Brown will like my background that its a bit different.

 

[SaintJude]

Haven't had much contact with it but I do have a friend in it who loves it. Last time I checked. she's exploring how mindfulness techniques have an effect on clinical quality and is going on a week long meditative retreat this summer in NY state.

I also met a girl (either a 3rd or 4th year now) who basically spent her summer just travelling around Tibet, going to Buddhist temples and learning whatever she could and writing it up in a research manuscript. All in all, not a bad way to spend a summer.

this school. I don't want to fall in love with any school b/c the whole process is uncertain... But this is amazing!

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

I'm interested in apply here but I heard they its not OOSF????

But when I looked at the MSAR its seems the opposite, seeing if there is anything im missing. Hopefully Brown will like my background that its a bit different.

Hi Lafakads,

The MSAR is correct, the school is deffinately OOSF (please forgive my lack of familiarity with SDN acronyms but I'm assuming you mean out of state friendly). Our class comes from all over (good number of Californians in particular) which makes sense since it's a private med school as opposed to a state school.

And from my own experience and observations, Brown likes different backgrounds. Many of us are non-traditional (off the top of my head I have classmates who are documentary filmmakers, community health workers, TFA alums, Peace Corp alums, former CHWs, investment finance people, a BASE jumper, a number of us who were EMTs, and the list goes on). Even a good number of PLME students take a year off to travel or work and those who come straight through had very different undergrad experiences from the traditional pre-med track so there's plenty of variety. There's no one thing that I think admissions is really looking for. As far as I can tell, they are just looking for people with a passion for life and the dedication and determination necessary to do well in the medical world.


As an addendum for the more traditional pre-meds, if your passion for life is studying oncogenes, quorum sensing, tissue engineering, and the such, that is more than awesome and of course counts. Again, I think the key is to just be passionate about your interests, especially since it shows so clearly at the interview stage.

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

this school. I don't want to fall in love with any school b/c the whole process is uncertain... But this is amazing!

Glad you think so!

I actually came here for a Physicians for Human Rights conference 2 years before I applied and loved the atmosphere, the students, and the professors, and knew I wanted to be here. I agree though that med school admissions is a tricky process. Regardless, best of luck!

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

Thanks for this post! It's incredibly helpful and insightful. To be honest, I'm sold. If I can nail down that good MCAT score now, I'd love to apply to Brown.

Best of luck! I used to teach MCAT for Kaplan and am a big fan of their texts (I think if you're an independent learner, the full class is really unnecessary though the practice exams aren't bad). If I can be of any help with general studying tips or the such, just PM me

 

[levodopa]

I'm looking on MSAR and Brown requires social science and behavioral science. If I don't have a social science class, does that mean I'm eliminated from the get-go? I've taken psych classes that are social science-y, but they are in the psych dept...

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

I'm looking on MSAR and Brown requires social science and behavioral science. If I don't have a social science class, does that mean I'm eliminated from the get-go? I've taken psych classes that are social science-y, but they are in the psych dept...

I think MSAR can be useful but it can also be a bit lacking in detail. Here's the website for the course requirements.

http://brown.edu/academics/medical/admission/coursework

More specifically, the social science requirement states that you need 2 courses related to the study of human behavior and that preferably those courses would be in the field of anthropology, sociology, psychology, economics, or political science.

You are not limited to those alone though. I fulfilled the requirement with public health coursework.

 

[Remedies]

Thanks for this post! It's incredibly helpful and insightful. To be honest, I'm sold. If I can nail down that good MCAT score now, I'd love to apply to Brown.

Same here, thanks for all the info!

 

[syoung]

Hi Lafakads,

The MSAR is correct, the school is deffinately OOSF (please forgive my lack of familiarity with SDN acronyms but I'm assuming you mean out of state friendly). Our class comes from all over (good number of Californians in particular) which makes sense since it's a private med school as opposed to a state school.

And from my own experience and observations, Brown likes different backgrounds. Many of us are non-traditional (off the top of my head I have classmates who are documentary filmmakers, community health workers, TFA alums, Peace Corp alums, former CHWs, investment finance people, a BASE jumper, a number of us who were EMTs, and the list goes on). Even a good number of PLME students take a year off to travel or work and those who come straight through had very different undergrad experiences from the traditional pre-med track so there's plenty of variety. There's no one thing that I think admissions is really looking for. As far as I can tell, they are just looking for people with a passion for life and the dedication and determination necessary to do well in the medical world.


As an addendum for the more traditional pre-meds, if your passion for life is studying oncogenes, quorum sensing, tissue engineering, and the such, that is more than awesome and of course counts. Again, I think the key is to just be passionate about your interests, especially since it shows so clearly at the interview stage.

I'm down to apply here! Look out for me in 2013! Hopefully...

 

[adanne1990]

I'm down to apply here! Look out for me in 2013! Hopefully...

haha yeah i am just gonna throw it out there and take a shot. I mean ya never know, right?

 

[Alejandro]

Hi all! Hi Iorek!

For those of you interested in AMS/Brown, I would definitely recommend you to apply. I will warn you those that are interested in AMS to begin their secondary statement as soon as possible, because last year's was long...I think there was only one school longer than AMS's...I think it was UWashington.

Pros:
New School: The building is amazing. It is awesome having the building not impossible to access through personal vehicle, etc...especially for the late night study sessions. And, I'm sure Iorek can update me on this, but having the gym inside the school is an awesome idea.
Great administration: Faculty were amazing, the profs were all very talkative and willing to interact with students. I think AMS faculty seemed the least bothered by us interviewing there...Other faculty from other schools seemed too busy to care about the prospective applicants.
Close to Boston: This is something I discovered later on down the road, but its great having more than one airport to fly into. You can fly into TF Green, OR Logan in Boston, which means you'll have more choices. Heck, you can take a flight into NYC and then take the Acela express train up, if you'd like. Having that access is very nice. And obviously, Boston is a city where you can have fun and then come back to Providence which is relatively quieter and probably more conducive to an academic life.

Cons:
Cost of Living: As you can see, I eventually decided on Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is REAL cheap, and in comparison to Providence, there's a difference. While AMS has great financial aid, the cost of living is a bit high, but certainly not as bad as NYC, Boston, SF, etc.
Applicant odds: Do realize that a large part of their incoming class are the PLME students, which means that there aren't that many seats available in comparison to other schools. But, I think despite that, its definitely worthwhile applying to this school-I think what the school offers is amazing.

For those of you who are curious-I ended up choosing Pitt simply because I'm finding emergency medicine very interesting, and Pitt is notorious for being a EM giant. Pitt accepted me off the waitlist, and I decided to pull out of AMS after waiting a good amount of time on the waitlist, and after I secured housing in Pittsburgh. (And no, it wasn't because of "rankings" either.)

I still wonder if holding out for AMS would've been the better choice, but oh well-sometimes you just need to make a decision and let it be. So, for those of you starting the application cycle-Good luck and get started early on your AMS app! I assure you that you will not be disappointed when you go to visit Providence on your interview. The school is great!

 

[syoung]

Hi all! Hi Iorek!

For those of you interested in AMS/Brown, I would definitely recommend you to apply. I will warn you those that are interested in AMS to begin their secondary statement as soon as possible, because last year's was long...I think there was only one school longer than AMS's...I think it was UWashington.

Pros:
New School: The building is amazing. It is awesome having the building not impossible to access through personal vehicle, etc...especially for the late night study sessions. And, I'm sure Iorek can update me on this, but having the gym inside the school is an awesome idea.
Great administration: Faculty were amazing, the profs were all very talkative and willing to interact with students. I think AMS faculty seemed the least bothered by us interviewing there...Other faculty from other schools seemed too busy to care about the prospective applicants.
Close to Boston: This is something I discovered later on down the road, but its great having more than one airport to fly into. You can fly into TF Green, OR Logan in Boston, which means you'll have more choices. Heck, you can take a flight into NYC and then take the Acela express train up, if you'd like. Having that access is very nice. And obviously, Boston is a city where you can have fun and then come back to Providence which is relatively quieter and probably more conducive to an academic life.

Cons:
Cost of Living: As you can see, I eventually decided on Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is REAL cheap, and in comparison to Providence, there's a difference. While AMS has great financial aid, the cost of living is a bit high, but certainly not as bad as NYC, Boston, SF, etc.
Applicant odds: Do realize that a large part of their incoming class are the PLME students, which means that there aren't that many seats available in comparison to other schools. But, I think despite that, its definitely worthwhile applying to this school-I think what the school offers is amazing.

For those of you who are curious-I ended up choosing Pitt simply because I'm finding emergency medicine very interesting, and Pitt is notorious for being a EM giant. Pitt accepted me off the waitlist, and I decided to pull out of AMS after waiting a good amount of time on the waitlist, and after I secured housing in Pittsburgh. (And no, it wasn't because of "rankings" either.)

I still wonder if holding out for AMS would've been the better choice, but oh well-sometimes you just need to make a decision and let it be. So, for those of you starting the application cycle-Good luck and get started early on your AMS app! I assure you that you will not be disappointed when you go to visit Providence on your interview. The school is great!

Surely the # of PLME students can't be huge... can it? Their stats say they accept mostly OOS!

 

[aloepathic]

Hi all! Hi Iorek!

For those of you interested in AMS/Brown, I would definitely recommend you to apply. I will warn you those that are interested in AMS to begin their secondary statement as soon as possible, because last year's was long...I think there was only one school longer than AMS's...I think it was UWashington.

Just FYI, the 'word limit' on Brown's statement is so darn long specifically because we don't want anyone to feel like they didn't have enough room to state their case. In NO way do we expect every essay to hit the limit (and mine was 1500-2000 if I recall correctly). In fact, as with most things in medicine/med school/life, it's better to be brief if you can't back it up. Common misconception, but please don't kill yourself trying to write an opus, we just want to see what you have to say

 

[aloepathic]

Surely the # of PLME students can't be huge... can it? Their stats say they accept mostly OOS!

PLME's make up less than half of the class, there's plenty of room for standards (especially now that the class size has bumped up to 120). And there aren't even enough in-staters to make an in-state preference a concern (Rhode Island has a population of < 1 million, Providence population > 1 x 10^6 because it includes South Mass.). I'd say don't let the numbers dissuade you, you'll never know if you don't take your shot.

 

[Alejandro]

I agree with aloepathic on those points. the PLMEs aren't that big of a deal, honestly. It's not liek they're socially weird or anything either. For the cons I mentioned, they're relatively LAME ones compared to the negatives of other schools you could apply to, if you haven't noticed. Again, for those interested, apply to AMS. Great school.

 

[syoung]

I agree with aloepathic on those points. the PLMEs aren't that big of a deal, honestly. It's not liek they're socially weird or anything either. For the cons I mentioned, they're relatively LAME ones compared to the negatives of other schools you could apply to, if you haven't noticed. Again, for those interested, apply to AMS. Great school.

Definitely still applying, love what Iorek had to say on the school plus whatever I've been reading about them on their website. Just was surprised that almost 50% of the class is made up of PLME's. Nothing to do with "socially weird" or not, haven't met them.

 

[Whomp]

The MCAT average seems slightly lower then comparable top-tier schools. Does that mean they are less of a numbers school?

The reason I'm asking: I absolutely love what I know about the school but I am (a) low-ish MCAT - 30 and (b) from a lower-tier state school in the Midwest. Assuming other aspects of my application are up to par, is it worth applying? Trying to keep my application fees as low as possible, but would still like to throw my hat into two or three top schools.

 

[Goobs]

The MCAT average seems slightly lower then comparable top-tier schools. Does that mean they are less of a numbers school?

The reason I'm asking: I absolutely love what I know about the school but I am (a) low-ish MCAT - 30 and (b) from a lower-tier state school in the Midwest. Assuming other aspects of my application are up to par, is it worth applying? Trying to keep my application fees as low as possible, but would still like to throw my hat into two or three top schools.

The 50% PLME may drag the median down a bit.

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

Alas, this is going to be a tad laconic so I apologize preemptively if this post is not up to par.

Just a heads up, I think the secondary for Brown should be up this week, potentially as early as tomorrow. I think Aloepathic knows far more than I do about the appropriate length for the essay responses so I'd heed the advice given (I'll fully admit I was one of those naive souls who pretty much used the full word count).

On the topic of PLME students, they do indeed make up a sizable portion of the class but it varies from year to year. First off, they are awesome. My sentiment is that the one big difference between PLME students and standard admits is that the PLMEs already know the best restaurants and social scenes before classes even begin which gets the year off with a good start. I think they also bring a calm and relaxed vibe to the beginning of first year, having bypassed the pressure cooker pre-med atmosphere (that said, one of my anatomy partners was PLME and perhaps one of the most wired people I know (which worked out quite nicely because I found anatomy to be draining so her energy was pretty much the only thing that got our group through each lab (not to mention she pretty much tutored us all on the structures because she is awesome)). Some of my closest friends here are PLME, some are standard admits; I'd say that's pretty much the way it goes for everyone here. Yes, they take up some of the class spots but I think they are also one of the reasons anyone should want to come to brown because they really do have a positive influence on the class dynamic.

Not sure about the MCAT one way or the other. The sources I'm finding show an average of 33.7. I'd imagine the PLME students shouldn't even be counted in the average since the vast majority of them do not choose to take the MCAT. I am not a huge fan of advising students based on their stats but I will simply say this. A) You can't get an interview or be accepted at a school you don't apply to, B) You never really know what an admissions committee is looking for, and C) average MCAT and GPAs are just that, averages!!! There are those who's scores will fall on the higher end of the distribution and those who's scores will be on the lower end among any admitted class to any medical school.

That said a high GPA and MCAT aren't simply good for rankings but rather they can show a commitment to academics and the ability to tackle the USMLE. In the absence of either one or both (and even when both are present), you will always need something more to show your determination and your capacity for learning medicine. I'd bet good money though that everyone reading this already knows this and has put a lot of time and effort to better their community and the world through service and/or research so at the end of the day I could philosophize about this for ages but it just comes down to sizing yourself up and deciding if you want to take a shot.

 

[syoung]

Alas, this is going to be a tad laconic so I apologize preemptively if this post is not up to par.

Just a heads up, I think the secondary for Brown should be up this week, potentially as early as tomorrow. I think Aloepathic knows far more than I do about the appropriate length for the essay responses so I'd heed the advice given (I'll fully admit I was one of those naive souls who pretty much used the full word count).

On the topic of PLME students, they do indeed make up a sizable portion of the class but it varies from year to year. First off, they are awesome. My sentiment is that the one big difference between PLME students and standard admits is that the PLMEs already know the best restaurants and social scenes before classes even begin which gets the year off with a good start. I think they also bring a calm and relaxed vibe to the beginning of first year, having bypassed the pressure cooker pre-med atmosphere (that said, one of my anatomy partners was PLME and perhaps one of the most wired people I know (which worked out quite nicely because I found anatomy to be draining so her energy was pretty much the only thing that got our group through each lab (not to mention she pretty much tutored us all on the structures because she is awesome)). Some of my closest friends here are PLME, some are standard admits; I'd say that's pretty much the way it goes for everyone here. Yes, they take up some of the class spots but I think they are also one of the reasons anyone should want to come to brown because they really do have a positive influence on the class dynamic.

Not sure about the MCAT one way or the other. The sources I'm finding show an average of 33.7. I'd imagine the PLME students shouldn't even be counted in the average since the vast majority of them do not choose to take the MCAT. I am not a huge fan of advising students based on their stats but I will simply say this. A) You can't get an interview or be accepted at a school you don't apply to, B) You never really know what an admissions committee is looking for, and C) average MCAT and GPAs are just that, averages!!! There are those who's scores will fall on the higher end of the distribution and those who's scores will be on the lower end among any admitted class to any medical school.

That said a high GPA and MCAT aren't simply good for rankings but rather they can show a commitment to academics and the ability to tackle the USMLE. In the absence of either one or both (and even when both are present), you will always need something more to show your determination and your capacity for learning medicine. I'd bet good money though that everyone reading this already knows this and has put a lot of time and effort to better their community and the world through service and/or research so at the end of the day I could philosophize about this for ages but it just comes down to sizing yourself up and deciding if you want to take a shot.

Thanks for the reply. Will definitely be on the lookout for @Aleopathic's response, the 5000 char max is a bit over-the-top considering we just did a personal statement for 5300 char max...

 

[aloepathic]

Thanks for the reply. Will definitely be on the lookout for @Aleopathic's response, the 5000 char max is a bit over-the-top considering we just did a personal statement for 5300 char max...

No worries, the character limit is literally that, a limit (as in, if you somehow managed to force the reader to review something more than 5000 characters he/she would be extremely unhappy). Write something you're happy with and submit it at whatever length that turns out to be no matter how short (but definitely not longer than 5000 char). It may feel weird since all the other secondaries have limits that cramp a bit, but it is *normal* to submit an essay well under the limit.

In answer to some of the other questions, yes Brown is less focused on numbers than other schools provided you have an interesting story and are bringing something other than a GPA/MCAT to the med school (and the aforementioned essay is a perfect place to talk about how much you bring).

 

[Goobs]

Bumping to say secondary received this morning.

 

[dreamer67]

Could someone please post the prompt? Thanks!

 

[espagueti]

Bummer. I pre-wrote this secondary, but they've changed the prompts:

3000 character limit for each response.

1. Summarize your activities during the 2012-2013 academic year. Describe how your activities are preparing you for a medical career.

NOTE: Interviews occur on Thursdays and/or Fridays beginning in late September and finishing in mid-February. Please let us know of any limitations on your availability during this time, such as international travel, work or courses.

2. How will your unique attributes (e.g., cultural or socioeconomic background, lifestyle, work experiences) add to the overall diversity of the Alpert Medical School community?

3. What are your aspirations for your medical practice? Fast-forward to 15 years in the future: where do you imagine yourself?

 

[fusdora]

Hi Lorek,

Could you tell us how many non-canadian international students there are in your class?
Thanks!

 

[Mosa]

Just submitted this secondary and I absolutely loved the last essay question! A long shot but I still have to try!

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

Hi Lorek,

Could you tell us how many non-canadian international students there are in your class?
Thanks!

Honestly not sure. I know of at least one student who's strictly non-Canadian international. I'm pretty sure there are also a couple of us who are dual.

 

[GooseWing]

For those who have filled out the prereq page, the directions say to include the course name for each entry but I do not see a box to include the name of the course, just the course number.

Any insight?

EDIT: Just decided to type in COURSE NUMBER, COURSE NAME in the 'Course Number' box.

 

[BeancheBlanco]

1. Summarize your activities during the 2012-2013 academic year. Describe how your activities are preparing you for a medical career.

Is this essay for all applicants or just those taking a gap year? Just to make sure that's not a typo in the year, they want us to explain what we plan to do next year?

 

[Iorek Byrnison]

Is this essay for all applicants or just those taking a gap year? Just to make sure that's not a typo in the year, they want us to explain what we plan to do next year?

Correct. Among other things it gives your potential interviewers a chance to see what you're currently doing so they can ask how it's coming along (since your interviews will of course take place during the academic year) as opposed to focusing the entire interview on past activities that you may no longer be involved in, especially if you're done with college and taking a gap year.

Cheers and best of luck to everyone! With luck, hope to see you guys and gals during the interview days!

 

[SquatOrRot]

Anyone know how to input hours in the prereq box if our school didn't use an hours system. (i.e. my school gave 1.0 cu for a semester of study)

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Complete since 7/8/12.

 

[Hello678]

For the pre-reqs it says to list course name and course number, but they only give a box for course number. What did you guys do for this? Just list course number?