2013-2014 The Warren Alpert Medical School of Brown University

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Correct (As I understand it)
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This thread is as quiet as can be. Anyone who's for sure matriculating here over another school... Why brown? (don't give me a secondary essay answer hehe)
 
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My name is Stan, I'm finishing up my 3rd year at Alpert. Will try to field any questions you have.

Re: Pass/Fail, On Dec 2013, committee voted to make Brown pure pass/fail for pre-clinicals (the first 2 years) starting with class of 2017 and beyond. Clerkships will still retain honors.
 
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Brown2015 said:
My name is Stan, I'm finishing up my 3rd year at Alpert. Will try to field any questions you have.

Re: Pass/Fail, On Dec 2013, committee voted to make Brown pure pass/fail for pre-clinicals (the first 2 years) starting with class of 2017 and beyond. Clerkships will still retain honors.
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Hey Stan, thanks for confirming that Brown is pure pass/fail for pre-clinical years.

How have your clerkships been so far? Is the atmosphere more serious or laid-back? Do you get to see a good mix of complex and basic cases?

I've noticed that the match list is really top-notch. Do you think Brown students in general get into both the specialty and location of their choice? Does the the administration support you in getting you the residency you want even if it may not be a Brown affiliated hospital?

Do you know the Step 1 average for this past year?

Any tips on 1 bedroom housing? Is it better to live next to the med school or the undergrad? Can we get by without a car?

Thank you so much.
 
Carbocation1 said:
How have your clerkships been so far? Is the atmosphere more serious or laid-back? Do you get to see a good mix of complex and basic cases?

I've noticed that the match list is really top-notch. Do you think Brown students in general get into both the specialty and location of their choice? Does the the administration support you in getting you the residency you want even if it may not be a Brown affiliated hospital?

Do you know the Step 1 average for this past year?

Any tips on 1 bedroom housing? Is it better to live next to the med school or the undergrad? Can we get by without a car?
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Depends on clerkship, site of placement, etc. Certain ones are busy and others less so. Atmosphere in the hospital is professional because you're interfacing with patients and other healthcare workers. Within the confines of resident's lounge (or OR once the patient is asleep), it's a little a more loose. I think this holds true across all medical schools.

Yes, you'll see a good mix of both simple and complex cases. Clerkship is all about your learning and most people do a good job of respecting that. This means residents and attendings will present you the patients of the day and will allow you to pick cases that is most appropriate to your learning or ones that you find most interesting. I have never found myself doing menial work without an educational component to it. I think Brown excels in this area.

It's difficult to judge how good the Match List is without knowing what the students preferred. I think people look at the list and if they see a lot of big name institutions, they assume it's a good match list. Unlike undergrad and med school, there are other important consideration that goes into matching - being close to your parents so they can help with raising your kids, being in the same city as your spouse. I am not in a serious relationship but many are, and if I were, these considerations would trump academic prestige.

Brown students do very well in the Match. Something like 80% of students end up matching to one of their top 3 programs. Don't quote me on this number but it's something like that. Most people choose to not match to a Brown hospital. There is no bias in the administration whatsoever regarding career choice and or program location.

Based on aggregated data (spanning multiple years) that is a few years old, Brown average Step 1 score is a few points above the national average. I do not have more recent data. If the average Step 1 score is of importance to you, then you should also be aware that there are a few distinct population within Brown - PLMEs, standard admits, post-bac, and early identification program. The school does not disclose Step 1 score of each group, but my sense is that they are different. I assume you are a standard admit, so the more appropriate question is what is the Step 1 average among standard admit. Unfortunately, I do not have the answer to that question.

The vast majority live in the Fox Point / Wayland Square neighborhood. This is towards the undergrad side. A few people lived towards the med school in the downtown area but it's more expensive and also be aware of the noise factor esp on weekends - lots of bars in the area. I don't have specific tips for 1 bedroom. Most 1 bedroom are found in attics or basement just because of the layout of the floor plan.

I got through 2.5 winters here and the majority of my clerkship without a car so it's very doable. But I also enjoy biking. Biking is the fastest way to get around since parking is a hassle. During heavy snow, biking is much faster because you don't spend 20 minutes digging your car out, clearing your windshield, and wait for it to warm up. If you don't bike, there are shuttle and bus option but I don't know much about that because why take the bus when you can bike?
 
FOR THE MATHEMATICALLY INCLINED:

Over breakfast this morning, I thought some more about the question of Step 1 average among standard admits. Here's how I would estimate it using publicly available data:

Fact #1- MCAT score is the single best predictor of Step 1 score
Fact #2 - PLMEs don't take MCAT

Build a distribution of average MCAT score among all medical schools. Be sure to weigh this properly since different schools have different class size. You're looking for mean and standard dev. See how Brown compares with other school. Calculate z-score.

Mean and standard dev of Step 1 score is readily available. Apply z-score to Step 1 score distribution.

I'm willing to bet a large sum of money down that this will be very close to the actual figures. Am curious to see what the result is, but not curious enough to actually carry out this calculation. If anyone out there wants to do this, please let me know what you find.
 
Anyone know when Waitlist Movement starts?
 
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Brown2015 said:
My name is Stan, I'm finishing up my 3rd year at Alpert. Will try to field any questions you have.

Re: Pass/Fail, On Dec 2013, committee voted to make Brown pure pass/fail for pre-clinicals (the first 2 years) starting with class of 2017 and beyond. Clerkships will still retain honors.
Click to expand...

How did you choose Brown (if you had a choice)?
 
Because you asked... Been solely an observer on sdn until now, just got an account to say: ACCEPTED off the waitlist around midday today! Interviewed 12/19, Waitlisted 1/10. Barbara's email was so nice :) Interest letters definitely must have helped!!
 
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ubicaritas said:
Because you asked... Been solely an observer on sdn until now, just got an account to say: ACCEPTED off the waitlist around midday today! Interviewed 12/19, Waitlisted 1/10. Barbara's email was so nice :) Interest letters definitely must have helped!!
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That is amazing! Congrats! How many did you send?
 
Just an update before the waitlist, then another update/interest letter hybrid about a month after I heard back from them.
 
ubicaritas said:
Because you asked... Been solely an observer on sdn until now, just got an account to say: ACCEPTED off the waitlist around midday today! Interviewed 12/19, Waitlisted 1/10. Barbara's email was so nice :) Interest letters definitely must have helped!!
Click to expand...

That's amazing! Congrats!

I'm hoping to get similar news.
 
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I was also accepted from the waitlist on Friday morning! Will definitely be attending!! Good luck to everyone else hoping to get in. I sent two letters of intent after my waitlist. I was able to make it very clear and obvious that Brown was my definite #1 choice which I think helped immensely.

Question: Does anyone know the date we first have to be at orientation?
 
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Bearstronaut said:
For applicants, Fact #1 is the most relevant - at the vast majority if not all medical schools, the best predictor for a high Step 1 average is the entering class's MCAT score. I would think very carefully about what you're comparing exactly before relying on average Step 1 scores to make any decisions. This may be different at institutions with low MCAT scores but very high Step 1s, or the opposite, but I don't think Brown falls into either of those categories (I don't think any school does). Hopefully Stan will correct me if I'm wrong. It's easy to parade a high Step 1 score in front of applicants, and ignore the fact the incoming population has a 38 MCAT average, for example.

For me, the decision came down more heavily on the Match List - if anything, an impressive match list absent a crazy-high Step 1 average speaks more to the institution and their students than the Step 1 average does.
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Totally agree. Recent grads who are currently resident have said things along the same lines.
 
How easy is it to match to an NYC/Long Island residency from Brown?
 
TheKMan1 said:
How did you choose Brown (if you had a choice)?
Click to expand...

I did have a choice. A few in fact. I turned down schools that were "ranked" higher than Brown.

I was sold on how relatively open Brown is. The undergrads don't even have majors. (They have something called "concentration" which is similar but there's more freedom and flexibility). During medical school, I took classes at Roger Williams Law School, volunteered extensively as a Court Appointed Special Advocate with the family court, advocated for the homeless community, raced on Brown Cycling Team for 2 full seasons meaning I spent those weekends on the road traveling to races and living out of crappy motels and not studying, ran a half-marathon for the first time, did triathlons for the first time (almost won an award in one of them), and completed an Iron Man 70.3 triathlon. The last race I actually did during my surgery rotation. Had I tried to do this at any other school, I think the administration would have stepped in a long time ago and stopped me. Granted that med school can only be so open since all schools conform to USMLE STEP exams and there are pretty specific requirements for accreditation, so don't expect it to be like college. Interview season was more than 4 years ago for me and med school facts have since displaced memories from that period but Brown seemed the most open-minded of all the campuses I interviewed at.

I was also president of the AMA chapter at Brown and have worked with medical students from other schools on issues they face, so I have an idea of what we do well. For example, certain schools in New York have a very difficult time with clinical exposure because of the influx of medical students from the Caribbean doing their 3rd year rotation there. I spoke to a friend who was unable to do any deliveries during OB/GYN rotation because there were more medical students than deliveries the week he was on service. In contrast, in my 2 weeks on OB labor floor, I participated in about 10 vaginal deliveries of which I independently did a portion of the delivery (delivered the head, or the body, or the placenta, or some combination thereof). Three of those deliveries were completely unassisted, meaning the attending stood next to me but didn't touch the baby through the entire process. Similarly, when I took call on surgery, I repaired lacerations all night in the ED. I cleaned the wound, set up the equipment, injected lidocaine, sutured, cleaned up, and counseled patient on after care. The resident popped her head in few times to make sure things were going smoothly but didn't tell me what to do. That night I threw about 20 sutures, 20 staples, and did a handful of trauma exams.

I've only used examples so far from OB and surgery because it's easier to convey the experience when you can count the procedures you get to do. I think the quality of clinical clerkship here is top notch and in my opinion, the biggest reason why students match so well. I think when comparing schools, the pre-clinical curriculum matters much less because in order to get to medical school, you have proven your ability to learn well with different teaching styles. One school uses PBL and another uses TBL? You can debate it all you want but at the end of the day, you'll learn fine with either approach. On the other hand, no matter how smart you are, you ain't gonna learn how to deliver a baby if you don't actually get to do it.

Okay, that's my 2 cents.
 
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Carbocation1 said:
How easy is it to match to an NYC/Long Island residency from Brown?
Click to expand...

If all you want to do is to match to the NYC area like you stated in your question, I guarantee you that you can do it with absolutely no problems. The problem is that no one does it this way.

People approach residency application with specialty in mind first, and then look at geographic location. The specialty you pick will more or less be your lifetime career, so generally, that's more important than geographic location. Certain programs are very rare. There are like 10 triple board programs in the country (triple board means you get board certify in pediatrics, psychiatry, and child psychiatry in 5 years). If this is what you want to do, it will be difficult to be picky about your geographic location. So the answer to your question is that it depends.

Having said that, I think the NYC/Long Island area is large enough with enough options that it shouldn't be hard to a program that fits you. But I don't plan on applying to that area so I don't know much about it. Maybe someone who knows more can comment.
 
Thanks Stan. Have the 4th years started to find out yet where they matched into? Do you know when the match list will come out?
 
Carbocation1 said:
Thanks Stan. Have the 4th years started to find out yet where they matched into? Do you know when the match list will come out?
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Match results comes out Friday for all schools across the country.
 
I found some support for what @Bearstronaut was alluding to earlier...

In 2010, the STEP 1 average for Brown was 226; 4 points higher than the national average (see Table 5): https://www.rimed.org/medhealthri/2012-10/2012-10-317.pdf

Yet the 2010 match list shows that students matched into top-notch programs all over the country: http://www.rimed.org/medhealthri/2010-08/2010-08-228.pdf

On SDN, the prevailing notion is that board scores are by far the most important factor for residency directors. What is it about Brown then that produces such successful matches?
 
Just looked at the 2014 match list on their website...wow. I'll have some of that, please!
 
Although it seems like the majority of graduates matched into top academic programs, I didn't see a lot of specialties. But this is probably just a reflection of student interests.
 
Carbocation1 said:
On SDN, the prevailing notion is that board scores are by far the most important factor for residency directors.
Click to expand...

First of all, a hearty congrats to everyone who has been accepted! I may have met some of you during your interviews as I gave a few of the tours; looking forward to meeting everyone.

Now that the match list has been posted, just a heads up that, as always, you should take what you read on SDN with some(times, several truckloads of) salt. With respect to what the most important factor is for residency directors, this can vary widely from specialty to specialty and program to program. In the most recent comprehensive survey of residency program directors (that I know of, citation below), performance in the required clinical clerkships was the most highly weighted criterion (out of 14 total), followed by Step 1 scores, and then grades in senior electives in that particular specialty (note that preclinical grades were ranked 12/14). So while Step 1 scores are important, not only is it not necessarily true that Step 1 scores are the *most* important by far, they may not be the most important at all!

For more info, see Green M et al., Acad Med. (2009) 84:362. In this article, they also disaggregate program directors' responses by specialty.

Hope that helps!
 
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TheKMan1 said:
Did you get this info in an email? And do you know if they pay for flights/hotel?
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It was in the acceptance letter that came in the mail. No, I'm pretty sure they do not pay for that.
 
Brown2015 said:
I did have a choice. A few in fact. I turned down schools that were "ranked" higher than Brown.

I was sold on how relatively open Brown is. The undergrads don't even have majors. (They have something called "concentration" which is similar but there's more freedom and flexibility). During medical school, I took classes at Roger Williams Law School, volunteered extensively as a Court Appointed Special Advocate with the family court, advocated for the homeless community, raced on Brown Cycling Team for 2 full seasons meaning I spent those weekends on the road traveling to races and living out of crappy motels and not studying, ran a half-marathon for the first time, did triathlons for the first time (almost won an award in one of them), and completed an Iron Man 70.3 triathlon. The last race I actually did during my surgery rotation. Had I tried to do this at any other school, I think the administration would have stepped in a long time ago and stopped me. Granted that med school can only be so open since all schools conform to USMLE STEP exams and there are pretty specific requirements for accreditation, so don't expect it to be like college. Interview season was more than 4 years ago for me and med school facts have since displaced memories from that period but Brown seemed the most open-minded of all the campuses I interviewed at.

I was also president of the AMA chapter at Brown and have worked with medical students from other schools on issues they face, so I have an idea of what we do well. For example, certain schools in New York have a very difficult time with clinical exposure because of the influx of medical students from the Caribbean doing their 3rd year rotation there. I spoke to a friend who was unable to do any deliveries during OB/GYN rotation because there were more medical students than deliveries the week he was on service. In contrast, in my 2 weeks on OB labor floor, I participated in about 10 vaginal deliveries of which I independently did a portion of the delivery (delivered the head, or the body, or the placenta, or some combination thereof). Three of those deliveries were completely unassisted, meaning the attending stood next to me but didn't touch the baby through the entire process. Similarly, when I took call on surgery, I repaired lacerations all night in the ED. I cleaned the wound, set up the equipment, injected lidocaine, sutured, cleaned up, and counseled patient on after care. The resident popped her head in few times to make sure things were going smoothly but didn't tell me what to do. That night I threw about 20 sutures, 20 staples, and did a handful of trauma exams.

I've only used examples so far from OB and surgery because it's easier to convey the experience when you can count the procedures you get to do. I think the quality of clinical clerkship here is top notch and in my opinion, the biggest reason why students match so well. I think when comparing schools, the pre-clinical curriculum matters much less because in order to get to medical school, you have proven your ability to learn well with different teaching styles. One school uses PBL and another uses TBL? You can debate it all you want but at the end of the day, you'll learn fine with either approach. On the other hand, no matter how smart you are, you ain't gonna learn how to deliver a baby if you don't actually get to do it.

Okay, that's my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Thanks a ton for the detailed response. I'm in a very tough (read: humbling/fantastic) situation now with UWisconsin offering me a scholarship that would make tuition only $9k/yr for all 4 years. Do you know when/if Brown hands out merit scholarships? I'm not likely to receive a need-based scholarship due to my parent's occupation, but I will be 100% supporting myself during med school and paying all of my tuition with loans, so financial consideration is huge for me.
 
Has anyone recently gotten in off of the waitlist? I know that the list has started moving...
 
For people coming to 2nd look and looking for housing, my apartment is happy to host people. We have a couch, blankets, and floor space. You'll have keys so you can come and go as you please. Stay as long as you want. Between the multiple floors, we should be able to host a handful of people.

For those looking for housing, my apartment is up for grabs. I've lived here on 24 Preston St. with my roommates for the last 3 years but am moving out at the end of May. This is a great place with a great landlord. $1500 for 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, 2 parking spaces. Landlord will happily waive 1st month of rent. Located on the East Side where lots of Brown students live. There are currently 6 med students living in this building and we're all pretty happy. As a testament to how good the landlord is, when the dryer burned my clothing, she refunded the cost of damaged items. Lease starts June 1st.

Shoot me a PM or find me on the class FB page if you're interested.
 
Carbocation1 said:
Any tips on 1 bedroom housing? Is it better to live next to the med school or the undergrad?
Click to expand...

Hi! I'm another rising 4th year student. First, congrats to everyone who's been accepted!

A word on 1-br apartments, and a bit of self-promotion. I've been living in a great studio apartment in the Wayland square area, about 1.5 miles from the med school, and have loved it. I agree with Stan - most 1-bedroom apartments are attics or basements, but there are a few good ones to be found. You'll naturally pay more for a 1 br, but some affordable ones can be found. Most students live closer to the undergrad area, since the med school itself isn't in the best neighborhood, but I think more students are starting to look at the West Side (Atwells/The Armory area) in addition to the East Side (Fox Point/Wayland). I'd say either is a good option.

Self promotion: My studio apartment will be available starting June 1st - any one who is interested please feel free to send me a message. If you're coming for Second Look, I'll be around to show the apartment on Sunday 5/4.

Looking forward to meeting the incoming class!
 
Hey, what did you guys think of the financial aid package they released today?
 
Doesn't even come close to the packages I've been offered elsewhere, will most likely not be attending
 
Financial aid package was disappointing :( I was set on Brown before this but now will probably be matriculating elsewhere.
 
I was also very disappointed. Really wanted to attend but now considering other schools.
 
Withdrew from WL 5/1
GL to everyone waiting on a final decision.
 
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Can anyone confirm if Brown is really increasing the total seats to 144 this upcoming cycle? It says on the MSAR that "total expected: 144" with special program admittees estimated at 50, which would be a good sign if true.
 
khrisskhoras said:
Can anyone confirm if Brown is really increasing the total seats to 144 this upcoming cycle? It says on the MSAR that "total expected: 144" with special program admittees estimated at 50, which would be a good sign if true.
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No, we were told the class size is 120
 
So I read that Brown is planning on opening a bunch of new science facilities in the "Jewelry/Knowledge" district soon. Does this mean that Brown will shoot up in the usnews research rankings over the next few years? Not that I really care, lol...
 
Can anyone describe Second Look? I wasn't able to make it.
 
khrisskhoras said:
Can anyone confirm if Brown is really increasing the total seats to 144 this upcoming cycle? It says on the MSAR that "total expected: 144" with special program admittees estimated at 50, which would be a good sign if true.
Click to expand...

I believe that's actually true for the next admissions cycle. Brown is starting a new dual degree program in Primary Care and Population Health that will add 24 more students to the incoming class. The current class size is 120, so 24 more would bring the count up to 144: http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2013/01/primary
 
Good luck to everyone on the waitlist! I hope we all hear something soon!
 
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Any other wait listers receive a background check request email in the last couple of days? Or know what that means?
 
beems901 said:
Any other wait listers receive a background check request email in the last couple of days? Or know what that means?
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Was the email from Brown or from the company that does the back ground check? Also no I didn't get this email.
 
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