2014-2015 Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University Application Thread

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punMD said:
they were taking dispersing much money from their research $ which made them lose money?
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No lol. I think I think yu were trying to charge too much. This is all hearsay though. I really have nothing more I can add. Like you though, I am curious as to what the numbers are like.
 
Current student here. Regarding the merger, here's what I know:

- YU lost a lot of it's endowment money due to risky investments (hedge funds) during the 2008 financial crisis and subsequently in the Bernie Madoff Ponzie Scheme
- YU has been selling their apartment complexes in Manhattan (sold 11 so far) to offset their debt, which is about $100million/year, 2/3th of that which comes from Einstein since Einstein does so much research/other stuff
- Last May, Montefiore offered $100 million to YU in exchange for control of daily operations of Einstein. YU eventually declined the offer and asked for $800 million instead. Montefiore did not agree to this because if Montefiore had plans to initiate building more research infrastructure around the Einstein campus and giving more than $100 million to YU would not allow Montefiore to be able to pursue it's research pursuits.
- YU subsequently hired a third party consulting firm for advice and the consulting firm proposed making Einstein a "third rate" for-profit medical school (basically turning it into a Carribbean school), increasing tuition dollars, doubling the class size, subletting the Price Research Building (the one you see on MSAR) for commercial purposes, cutting the PhD and MSTP programs, and cutting all research at Einstein because they believed that research was the root of the cause of YU's humongous debt.
- All of the Einstein Deans threatened to resign if YU went through with this and also they filed some sort of thing to some NY medical board and ultimately people "high up" declared that YU's board of trustees are incapable of making decisions.
- Just earlier this week, YU came to an agreement with Montefiore (details not disclosed) to turn Einstein to Montefiore.

What all this means: Montefiore is one the biggest and richest hospital systems in the US (it's one of the very few hospital systems that have actually made a profit since Obamacare). Montefiore has been buying up hospitals left and right in the greater NYC area, competing with it's rival, NY Presbyterian. Montefiore taking control of Einstein can only mean good things for Einstein in the future. Montefiore already has a vision to create new research infrastructure on Einstein's campus and has almost an unlimited supply of money to funnel towards improving Einstein.

Hope this clears some confusion.
 
Great info to know for my interview if the topic even comes up. Thank you!
 
Uncle Albert said:
Current student here. Regarding the merger, here's what I know:

- YU lost a lot of it's endowment money due to risky investments (hedge funds) during the 2008 financial crisis and subsequently in the Bernie Madoff Ponzie Scheme
- YU has been selling their apartment complexes in Manhattan (sold 11 so far) to offset their debt, which is about $100million/year, 2/3th of that which comes from Einstein since Einstein does so much research/other stuff
- Last May, Montefiore offered $100 million to YU in exchange for control of daily operations of Einstein. YU eventually declined the offer and asked for $800 million instead. Montefiore did not agree to this because if Montefiore had plans to initiate building more research infrastructure around the Einstein campus and giving more than $100 million to YU would not allow Montefiore to be able to pursue it's research pursuits.
- YU subsequently hired a third party consulting firm for advice and the consulting firm proposed making Einstein a "third rate" for-profit medical school (basically turning it into a Carribbean school), increasing tuition dollars, doubling the class size, subletting the Price Research Building (the one you see on MSAR) for commercial purposes, cutting the PhD and MSTP programs, and cutting all research at Einstein because they believed that research was the root of the cause of YU's humongous debt.
- All of the Einstein Deans threatened to resign if YU went through with this and also they filed some sort of thing to some NY medical board and ultimately people "high up" declared that YU's board of trustees are incapable of making decisions.
- Just earlier this week, YU came to an agreement with Montefiore (details not disclosed) to turn Einstein to Montefiore.

What all this means: Montefiore is one the biggest and richest hospital systems in the US (it's one of the very few hospital systems that have actually made a profit since Obamacare). Montefiore has been buying up hospitals left and right in the greater NYC area, competing with it's rival, NY Presbyterian. Montefiore taking control of Einstein can only mean good things for Einstein in the future. Montefiore already has a vision to create new research infrastructure on Einstein's campus and has almost an unlimited supply of money to funnel towards improving Einstein.

Hope this clears some confusion.
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More info about Montefiore which points to why Monte taking over Einstein is an excellent move for AECOM:
Montefiore Medical Center has 1,491 acute-care beds and treats the Bronx community, which has more than 1.4 million people.
Overall, the medical center has 17,600 employees, and there are 1,760 employed physicians on Montefiore's medical staff.
In 2012 across all of Montefiore's divisions, the medical center posted total revenue of $7.1 billion. Net income topped $134 million for a profit margin of 1.9 percent, there were 90,000 total admissions, 303,000 emergency department visits and more than 2.7 million other ambulatory visits.
FYI:
The 10 Top Grossing Non-Profit Hospitals in America in 2014
  1. UPMC Presbyterian (Pittsburgh)— $12.21 billion
  2. The Cleveland Clinic — $11.63 billion
  3. Cedars-Sinai Medical Center (Los Angeles) — $10.59 billion
  4. Florida Hospital Orlando— $10.17 billion
  5. Stanford (Calif.) Hospital — $9.41 billion
  6. NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital (New York City)— $8.91 billion
  7. Yale-New Haven (Conn.) Hospital— $8.15 billion
  8. Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia) — $7.97 billion
  9. Motefiore Hospital-Moses Campus (Bronx, N.Y.)— $7.68 billion
  10. University of California San Francisco Medical Center at Parnassus— $7.67 billion
 
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I think people were more curious why YU was losing money due to AE vs why this merger is a good decision. Everyone thinks that this merger is great for the school, but where are the holes that are draining all that money from the school?
 
questions about einstein. can any current students help? so I noticed 4th year is graded, how bad is it, and why is it graded? the other school I'm debating between doesnt have a 4th year graded and doesn't have a short 7 monthish elective period. does this make it difficult to explore specialties and your field of choice? how pressed do you feel about residency apps? I know you have to do an acting internship and get letters by sept/oct, is it fairly easy to do? or do you feel a bit pressed for time doing it?


thanks for the insight!
 
stevvo111 said:
questions about einstein. can any current students help? so I noticed 4th year is graded, how bad is it, and why is it graded? the other school I'm debating between doesnt have a 4th year graded and doesn't have a short 7 monthish elective period. does this make it difficult to explore specialties and your field of choice? how pressed do you feel about residency apps? I know you have to do an acting internship and get letters by sept/oct, is it fairly easy to do? or do you feel a bit pressed for time doing it?


thanks for the insight!
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Rotations are graded everywhere or should be. Those are where the bulk of residency recommendations come from. Which school doesn't have it graded? I'd be suspect of how well they place people to residency programs without grades for rotations and SHELF exams...
 
ridethecliche said:
Rotations are graded everywhere or should be. Those are where the bulk of residency recommendations come from. Which school doesn't have it graded? I'd be suspect of how well they place people to residency programs without grades for rotations and SHELF exams...
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Yeah right otherwise the only differentiator would be step one scores.
 
johnnytest said:
Yeah right otherwise the only differentiator would be step one scores.
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Exactly. The places that are Pass/Fail do so for the pre-clinical duration. I haven't heard otherwise, though I'm all ears.
 
Cleveland clinic lerner college of medicine (CCLCM) doesn't give grades at any point during med school.
 
PREMED1992 said:
Cleveland clinic lerner college of medicine (CCLCM) doesn't give grades at any point during med school.
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UCLA didn't grade in the clinical years either until recently. Although I'm sure most students are glad they made the switch, I doubt UCLA had any trouble placing people into good residencies.
 
Current fourth year here, and I'd like to clear the air about a few things.

First of all, with regards to fourth year - yes the rotations are graded, just like in third year (it's like this at most schools), but most of the rotations (except sub-i's, neuro, and ambulatory month) are electives, so the grading is very lenient and doesn't really matter. Einstein gives you 8 electives fourth year, which is plenty. It is fairly easy to get the schedule you want and you can always trade spots with classmates if you have a last minute change of plans. Overall a much less stressful year than third year.

Now for the money, and the YU vs. AE situation and why money was being lost:

1) Yeshiva University has a massive deficit, though to be north of $100 million per year. This is due to a combination of reduced endowment income (Madoff, investing in too many hedge fungds, etc.), reduced liquidity from the endowment (aka not being able to spend the endowment because it's tied up in hedge funds), and increased spending vs. decreased revenue.

2) As for Einstein losing money, that's for a number of reasons. Part of it is due to Einstein being part of Yeshiva - with Yeshiva's crappy bond rating, Einstein couldn't refinance construction loans on the Price Center (new research building), and also there was a reduced NIH budget. However, an important point is that most research-intensive medical schools lose money. NIH grants don't fund all of the costs associated with research. It is up to the medical school to make up the rest. Here is where Montefiore comes into play.

3) Most research-intensive medical schools make up this deficit in funding through clinical revenue and through university funds. In other words, the profit from the hospital is partially plowed into the research side, thereby balancing the books. All of the big NYC medical schools have this setup to some degree, most notably Mount Sinai (which I'll come back to). Einstein sold its hospital (Weiler) to Montefiore decades ago, and Jacobi, Einstein's other main affiliate, is a public hospital and isn't sending cash back to Einstein in that manner. Therefore, Einstein has been an anomaly in that it doesn't get large amounts of clinical revenue to supplement its budget.

4) Yeshiva could no longer afford to plow money into Einstein because of their own problems. Montefiore is a large and very healthy hospital system. The faculty of Einstein and Montefiore are closely knit, there is already cost sharing between the entities. After much negotiation, Montefiore will now gain operating and financial control of Einstein, in a manner very similar to Mount Sinai School of Medicine and Mount Sinai Hospital.

TL;DR:
- Einstein's financials are in no worse shape than any other medical school - it loses money like any other research-intensive medical school, but up until now has not had its own hospital to supplement and balance its budget (and being attached to Yeshiva hurt things like bond ratings).
- Einstein/Montefiore will merge and support each other in the same setup as Mount Sinai and the Mount Sinai Hospital.
- Monteifore is very healthy and has the resources to back Einstein's research, just like Mount Sinai Hospital helps fund its medical school's research.
- Einstein is a top 25 school when it comes to NIH grant money, and will continue to remain an excellent research-intensive medical school because Montefiore has the substantial resources necessary to continue such an endeavor.
- Yeshiva is still on shaky financial ground, but moving forward this will NOT affect Einstein anymore, as Einstein will become funded and operated by Montefiore and will be affiliated with Yeshiva in name only (and for degree granting, for now).
 
Obliquity said:
Current fourth year here, and I'd like to clear the air about a few things.

First of all, with regards to fourth year - yes the rotations are graded, just like in third year (it's like this at most schools), but most of the rotations (except sub-i's, neuro, and ambulatory month) are electives, so the grading is very lenient and doesn't really matter. Einstein gives you 8 electives fourth year, which is plenty. It is fairly easy to get the schedule you want and you can always trade spots with classmates if you have a last minute change of plans. Overall a much less stressful year than third year.

Now for the money, and the YU vs. AE situation and why money was being lost:

1) Yeshiva University has a massive deficit, though to be north of $100 million per year. This is due to a combination of reduced endowment income (Madoff, investing in too many hedge fungds, etc.), reduced liquidity from the endowment (aka not being able to spend the endowment because it's tied up in hedge funds), and increased spending vs. decreased revenue.

2) As for Einstein losing money, that's for a number of reasons. Part of it is due to Einstein being part of Yeshiva - with Yeshiva's crappy bond rating, Einstein couldn't refinance construction loans on the Price Center (new research building), and also there was a reduced NIH budget. However, an important point is that most research-intensive medical schools lose money. NIH grants don't fund all of the costs associated with research. It is up to the medical school to make up the rest. Here is where Montefiore comes into play.

3) Most research-intensive medical schools make up this deficit in funding through clinical revenue and through university funds. In other words, the profit from the hospital is partially plowed into the research side, thereby balancing the books. All of the big NYC medical schools have this setup to some degree, most notably Mount Sinai (which I'll come back to). Einstein sold its hospital (Weiler) to Montefiore decades ago, and Jacobi, Einstein's other main affiliate, is a public hospital and isn't sending cash back to Einstein in that manner. Therefore, Einstein has been an anomaly in that it doesn't get large amounts of clinical revenue to supplement its budget.

4) Yeshiva could no longer afford to plow money into Einstein because of their own problems. Montefiore is a large and very healthy hospital system. The faculty of Einstein and Montefiore are closely knit, there is already cost sharing between the entities. After much negotiation, Montefiore will now gain operating and financial control of Einstein, in a manner very similar to Mount Sinai School of Medicine and Mount Sinai Hospital.

TL;DR:
- Einstein's financials are in no worse shape than any other medical school - it loses money like any other research-intensive medical school, but up until now has not had its own hospital to supplement and balance its budget (and being attached to Yeshiva hurt things like bond ratings).
- Einstein/Montefiore will merge and support each other in the same setup as Mount Sinai and the Mount Sinai Hospital.
- Monteifore is very healthy and has the resources to back Einstein's research, just like Mount Sinai Hospital helps fund its medical school's research.
- Einstein is a top 25 school when it comes to NIH grant money, and will continue to remain an excellent research-intensive medical school because Montefiore has the substantial resources necessary to continue such an endeavor.
- Yeshiva is still on shaky financial ground, but moving forward this will NOT affect Einstein anymore, as Einstein will become funded and operated by Montefiore and will be affiliated with Yeshiva in name only (and for degree granting, for now).
Click to expand...
One addition: Not all good medical schools are pure cost centers, medical schools are often more effective at raising huge endowments from alumni than hospitals are at getting donations to balance their books.
 
ridethecliche said:
Rotations are graded everywhere or should be. Those are where the bulk of residency recommendations come from. Which school doesn't have it graded? I'd be suspect of how well they place people to residency programs without grades for rotations and SHELF exams...
Click to expand...

I meant 4th year. the other school i am looking at doesn't have the 4th year graded, so it's much less stressful, and it has 13-15 months of electives as opposed to 7 or so. thanks for the insight @Obliquity

so you believe a majority of students are unstressed during 4th year and residency apps and stuff?

thanks for your help!!
 
stevvo111 said:
I meant 4th year. the other school i am looking at doesn't have the 4th year graded, so it's much less stressful, and it has 13-15 months of electives as opposed to 7 or so. thanks for the insight @Obliquity

so you believe a majority of students are unstressed during 4th year and residency apps and stuff?

thanks for your help!!
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Lmao. I never said 4th years were unstressed.

How stressed were you during med school stuff? Now amplify that tenfold. The people I know trying to match ortho etc applied to 40+ programs and attended 15ish interviews. They're stressed and exhausted but they get through it. I never said anything about them not being stressed. Pre-clinical pass/fail is great. Past that and it's not a great idea since residency programs can't really judge you and those grades matter. I'm not sure how much fourth year matters since you've already applied, but you have plenty of things to be worried about. Any school that tells you that their four year students are 'unstressed' is full of crap.
 
ridethecliche said:
Lmao. I never said 4th years were unstressed.

How stressed were you during med school stuff? Now amplify that tenfold. The people I know trying to match ortho etc applied to 40+ programs and attended 15ish interviews. They're stressed and exhausted but they get through it. I never said anything about them not being stressed. Pre-clinical pass/fail is great. Past that and it's not a great idea since residency programs can't really judge you and those grades matter. I'm not sure how much fourth year matters since you've already applied, but you have plenty of things to be worried about. Any school that tells you that their four year students are 'unstressed' is full of crap.
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lol thanks for the insight. my sis is a med student at UVA. and she is cruising by with zero stresses, I guess using her as an example is wrong. What she has told me is they finish up sub internships and things like that from April- July. and then July-oct apply, and interview from then to jan., with no other required things that are graded or matter beside geriatrics rotation, they don't have much to worry about, so it seems. she finished up interviewing at great places (upmc, la, ucsd, ucsd, Denver, Seattle, blah blah)trying to see if that situation is applicable to Einstein (if you can't tell, trying to decide between UVA and einstein). I guess if you do well on the boards, you'll be pretty stress less 4th year no matter where you go to school.

thanks, I was not trying to argue with you or anything just was interested in getting more info to make a solid decision.
 
Well how 'stressed' you are is a function of how well you did in Step 1, what you're trying to match, and where you're trying to match in.

I'm glad your sister is enjoying her time and 'cruising', but from my experience working with 4th years I can tell you that they're tired after life on the interview trail, busy with life and work, and kinda stressed. But they're not like... falling apart. Your question is so subjective that I'm not sure how anyone would answer it. How people deal with and handle stress is very subjective. The students that I met (and know) at Einstein are busy, but enjoy their work and the environment they're in. Some people are far better than others about compartmentalizing and/or dealing with it.
 
ridethecliche said:
Well how 'stressed' you are is a function of how well you did in Step 1, what you're trying to match, and where you're trying to match in.

I'm glad your sister is enjoying her time and 'cruising', but from my experience working with 4th years I can tell you that they're tired after life on the interview trail, busy with life and work, and kinda stressed. But they're not like... falling apart. Your question is so subjective that I'm not sure how anyone would answer it. How people deal with and handle stress is very subjective. The students that I met (and know) at Einstein are busy, but enjoy their work and the environment they're in. Some people are far better than others about compartmentalizing and/or dealing with it.
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well, of course it is subjective. but like your patients, a bright eyed aspiring medical student is bound to ask questions that might be thought of as subjective. but in my humble opinion, I believe it's the job of the doctor, older student, and those generally wiser to not make the asker (or patient or student) feel stupid.

at this moment I feel stupid. thank you for that, I hope you don't speak to your future patients with as much bluntness or rudeness as you have to my "subjective" yet totally simple question.
 
stevvo111 said:
well, of course it is subjective. but like your patients, a bright eyed aspiring medical student is bound to ask questions that might be thought of as subjective. but in my humble opinion, I believe it's the job of the doctor, older student, and those generally wiser to not make the asker (or patient or student) feel stupid.

at this moment I feel stupid. thank you for that, I hope you don't speak to your future patients with as much bluntness or rudeness as you have to my "subjective" yet totally simple question.
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unsure_emoticon.jpg


(Totally confused by that response to what I thought was a reasonable answer on my part.)
 
oof - waitlisted as well. expected it, but bummed! interviewed december 16th, LizzyM 72.
 
Argh waitlisted. 12/2 interview. Just really upset bc I loved this school. And it seems like there is another high priority waitlist besides regular waitlist?
Man this whole process is brutal. Got waitlisted at every interview except one...
 
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Interviewed back in November, but haven't gotten a waitlist/acceptance/rejection email. Safe to say that they haven't reviewed my file yet?
 
confusedhokie said:
Interviewed back in November, but haven't gotten a waitlist/acceptance/rejection email. Safe to say that they haven't reviewed my file yet?
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I would think they just haven't released your decision yet. They're typical waiting period is 8 weeks, although anything is possible
 
Interviewed in September, no word yet.

Einstein doesn't do anything snail mail do they? (Like rejections n stuff...?)
 
What are people's thoughts on deciding between Einstein and Downstate? Their match lists seem to be roughly the same, and I loved both schools, I'm just really conflicted as of now.
 
MemoryDocs said:
What are people's thoughts on deciding between Einstein and Downstate? Their match lists seem to be roughly the same, and I loved both schools, I'm just really conflicted as of now.
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If finances are even (which is unlikely if your in-state), then I don't think there's a single thing that would make me choose downstate over einstein.
 
blubearzangel said:
W/L email sent! Interviewed back in Sept, LM 70+ IS

Does anyone know what the WL movement is like here?
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my friend who goes here told me that almost all HPL are accepted and some in regular WL, but who knows...
Just disappointed that i didn't even get on the HPL :^(
 
drtony21 said:
If finances are even (which is unlikely if your in-state), then I don't think there's a single thing that would make me choose downstate over einstein.
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That's a major thing, though 🙁 I am in-state and Downstate would be less expensive, but Einstein is a school I definitely liked more and would attend in a heartbeat if finances were even. Is it still worth the cost, however?
 
MemoryDocs said:
What are people's thoughts on deciding between Einstein and Downstate? Their match lists seem to be roughly the same, and I loved both schools, I'm just really conflicted as of now.
Click to expand...

I haven't interviewed at Einstein yet, but if I get in, I'll be making that decision too. I haven't done all the math yet, but the rent cost on campus at Einstein seems so low compared to what a lot of people pay in Brooklyn that it might (almost) close the tuition gap ....
 
CoffeeBean1 said:
I haven't interviewed at Einstein yet, but if I get in, I'll be making that decision too. I haven't done all the math yet, but the rent cost on campus at Einstein seems so low compared to what a lot of people pay in Brooklyn that it might (almost) close the tuition gap ....
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I was thinking the same thing! I'm assuming it comes down to the money, but I like to think people attend the school at which they had a better feeling in while visiting, even if it means the extra money. How big of a difference would it be over four years, anyway?
 
MemoryDocs said:
I was thinking the same thing! I'm assuming it comes down to the money, but I like to think people attend the school at which they had a better feeling in while visiting, even if it means the extra money. How big of a difference would it be over four years, anyway?
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Doesn't Einstein give scholarships?

PS - congrats on having such amazing schools to choose from man!
 
theroof said:
my friend who goes here told me that almost all HPL are accepted and some in regular WL, but who knows...
Just disappointed that i didn't even get on the HPL :^(
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whats HPL?

edit: nvm. found it. is this a real thing this year?
 
MemoryDocs said:
I was thinking the same thing! I'm assuming it comes down to the money, but I like to think people attend the school at which they had a better feeling in while visiting, even if it means the extra money. How big of a difference would it be over four years, anyway?
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You'd have to look at the new tuitions and where you would live, but I remember looking at the old MSAR the tuition was about $9k more at Einstein. And then assuming you live off campus in Park Slope like a lot of Downstate students do, you will probably be paying like $1200+ a month for rent... so if you're saving about $600 a month that would be $7200 a year for a 12 month lease. Not a perfect comparison because you could definitely live for cheaper at Downstate (I think the on campus apartments are about $800 a month, and apartments around the school would be cheaper), but it seems like a lot of students like to live in semi-pricey neighborhoods.
 
CoffeeBean1 said:
You'd have to look at the new tuitions and where you would live, but I remember looking at the old MSAR the tuition was about $9k more at Einstein. And then assuming you live off campus in Park Slope like a lot of Downstate students do, you will probably be paying like $1200+ a month for rent... so if you're saving about $600 a month that would be $7200 a year for a 12 month lease. Not a perfect comparison because you could definitely live for cheaper at Downstate (I think the on campus apartments are about $800 a month, and apartments around the school would be cheaper), but it seems like a lot of students like to live in semi-pricey neighborhoods.
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Park slope is safer whereas the immediate area around downstate... not so much
 
johnnytest said:
Park slope is safer whereas the immediate area around downstate... not so much
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Yeah I know the area.. I believe at least SOME people choose to live there though or on campus, though. But most don't seem to, which is why I'd factor in $1200 or $1400 for rent compared to Einstein.
 
Are finances a big factor for you guys when choosing schools? I just figured I would take out loans and would ideally be making enough money someday to offset them.
 
Mr.Manager said:
Are finances a big factor for you guys when choosing schools? I just figured I would take out loans and would ideally be making enough money someday to offset them.
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Finances is one of the biggest reason for me in terms of choosing between two schools. Esp not knowing how the salary for docs will be 10 years from now, I'd rather not have $200,000+ interest in student loans looming over my head.
 
Toastayy said:
Finances is one of the biggest reason for me in terms of choosing between two schools. Esp not knowing how the salary for docs will be 10 years from now, I'd rather not have $200,000+ interest in student loans looming over my head.
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Precisely the reason Downstate is such a viable option for me - you can't beat that cost! Also, I'm planning to live on campus no matter where I go (I've seen Downstate's housing, it's not too bad for me personally). It's really coming down as to whether Einstein's name is worth the cost. I also understand that King's County has more diverse clinical experience, whereas Einstein's research opportunities are ideal for competitive specialties.

Decisions, decisions.
 
MemoryDocs said:
Precisely the reason Downstate is such a viable option for me - you can't beat that cost! Also, I'm planning to live on campus no matter where I go (I've seen Downstate's housing, it's not too bad for me personally). It's really coming down as to whether Einstein's name is worth the cost. I also understand that King's County has more diverse clinical experience, whereas Einstein's research opportunities are ideal for competitive specialties.

Decisions, decisions.
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I'm actually looking at the Downstate on campus housing and it looks like having your own bedroom in a shared apartment is actually ~$1000 a month.... 🙁
 
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