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The 2025-2026 MD School Specific Threads are now available thanks to our moderator team! The 2024-2025 threads are still available if you need to continue those discussions.
2016-2017 Florida International University Application Thread
- Thread starter WedgeDawg
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Do you have the full list? & congrats to the M4's!
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Has anyone who interviewed the week of February 10th (2/10) hear back yet? They told our interview group we would hear back around March 20th. My status still reads "Admissions Committee Scheduled"
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Interviewing Friday. Can someone confirm the order of things? (Food, when are the interviews, etc.)?
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You'll be randomly assigned to a group so your interview time may vary (I believe there are only two groups). All interviewees meet for the orientation at the beginning and have lunch with students before interviews start. Depending on the group you're in, you will either interview after lunch, or go on a tour and then interview. Those who interview first will be taken on a tour and given financial aid info after all interviews in the group have been completed. (There is also a short break between interviews.) Everyone meets up again for the closing statement.
Best of luck!
here this is what the interview schedule looks like
Attachments
You will likely find out tomorrow or Wednesday. I was suppose to hear back on the week of February 20th. I was checking my status a lot that week. On the Tuesday of that week, I checked multiple times and my status changed on the same day and an hour later I got an acceptance email
. So look for Tuesday but definitely by Wednesday this week.
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You will likely find out tomorrow or Wednesday. I was suppose to hear back on the week of February 20th. I was checking my status a lot that week. On the Tuesday of that week, I checked multiple times and my status changed on the same day and an hour later I got an acceptance email
Congrats on your acceptance!
Thanks for this, I was getting anxious haha 😛
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Thanks so much for the schedule!
What did you all think of FIU? I haven't visited in person but I'm really liking everything I am hearing/reading 🙂 this was one of my top choices from when I was making my med school list
What did you all think of FIU? I haven't visited in person but I'm really liking everything I am hearing/reading 🙂 this was one of my top choices from when I was making my med school list
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A more accurate match list:
Out of 114
Anesthesiology (8)
NYU SOM - New York, NY
UPMC Medical Education - Pittsburgh, PA
Montefiore Med Center/Einstein - Bronx, NY
Boston University Med Center - Boston, MA
NYU School of Medicine - New York, NY
Jackson Memorial Hospital - Miami, FL
Johns Hopkins Hospital - Baltimore, MD
U Southern California - Los Angeles, CA
Emergency Medicine (3)
NYU School of Medicine - New York, NY
U Cincinnati Med Center - Cincinnati, OH
Carolinas Med Center - Charlotte, NC
Family Medicine (7)
Womack Army Medical Center - Fort Bragg, NC
Greater Lawrence Family Health Center - Lawrence, MA
U Colorado SOM - Denver, CO
U South Florida Morsani COM - Tampa, FL
U Texas at Austin Dell Med School - Austin, TX
West Kendall Baptist Hospital - Miami, FL
Eisenhower Army Medical Center - Fort Gordon, GA
General Surgery (7)
U Tennessee Grad School - Knoxville, TN
LSU SOM - New Orleans, LA
Rutgers New Jersey Med School - Newark, NJ
Indiana University SOM - Indianapolis, IN
U Texas Health Science Center - San Antonio, TX
Medical University of SC - Charleston, SC
Baylor College of Medicine - Houston, TX
Internal Medicine (24)
UC San Francisco - San Francisco, CA
Cleveland Clinic Florida - Weston, FL
Cleveland Clinic Florida - Weston, FL
U Florida COM-Shands Hospital - Gainesville, FL
Emory University SOM - Atlanta, GA
Memorial Health-University - Savannah, GA
University of Arizona COM - Phoenix, AZ
U Arizona COM at Tucson - Tucson, AZ
Icahn SOM Beth Israel - New York, NY
Jackson Memorial Hospital - Miami, FL
Hofstra Northwell SOM - Great Neck, NY
Hofstra Northwell SOM - Great Neck, NY
Hofstra Northwell SOM - New York, NY
U South Florida Morsani COM - Tampa, FL
Mt. Sinai Med Center - Miami Beach, FL
Mt. Sinai Med Center - Miami Beach, FL
U Iowa Hospitals and Clinics - Iowa City, IA
Mayo Clinic School of GME - Jacksonville, FL
Naples Community Hospital - Naples, FL
Harbor-UCLA Med Center - Torrance, CA
INOVA Fairfax Hospital - Falls Church, VA
George Washington University - Washington, DC
George Washington University - Washington, DC
Icahn SOM St. Lukes - New York, NY
Medicine-Pediatrics (2)
Ohio State University Med Center - Columbus, OH
Indiana University SOM - Indianapolis, IN
Neurological Surgery (3)
SUNY Upstate Med University - Syracuse, NY
U South Florida Morsani COM - Tampa, FL
U Utah Affil Hospitals - Salt Lake City, UT
Neurology (1)
Harbor-UCLA Med Center - Torrance, CA
Obstetrics-Gynecology (8)
Medical University of SC - Charleston, SC
Jackson Memorial Hospital - Miami, FL
Tulane University SOM - New Orleans, LA
Tulane University SOM - New Orleans, LA
Vanderbilt University Med Center - Nashville, TN
Maimonides Med Center - Brooklyn, NY
NYP Hospital-Weill Cornell Med Ctr - New York, NY
St. Barnabas Med Center - Livingston, NJ
Ophthalmology (4)
Sinai Hospital of Baltimore - Baltimore, MD
Boston University Med Center - Boston, MA
Med C Virginia - Charlottesville, VA
Georgetown U/Wash Hosp - Washington, DC
Orthopaedic Surgery (9)
Hofstra Northwell SOM - Plainview, NY
Orlando Health - Orlando, FL
LSU SOM - New Orleans, LA
Hofstra Northwell SOM - New York, NY
U Massachusetts Med School - Worcester, MA
Montefiore Med Center/Einstein - Bronx, NY
U Arizona COM at Tucson - Tucson, AZ
Maimonides Med Center - Brooklyn, NY
Mayo Clinic School of GME - Rochester, MN
Otolaryngology (2)
Rutgers New Jersey Med School - Newark, NJ
U New Mexico SOM - Albuquerque, NM
Pathology (1)
U Florida COM-Shands Hospital - Gainesville, FL
Pediatrics (13)
Nicklaus Children's Hospital - Miami, FL
Nicklaus Children's Hospital - Miami, FL
Nicklaus Children's Hospital - Miami, FL
Medical University of SC - Charleston, SC
UC Irvine Medical Center - Orange, CA
U South Florida Morsani COM - Tampa, FL
Rhode Island Hospital/Brown Univ - Providence, RI
Children's National Med Center - Washington, DC
Baylor College of Medicine - San Antonio, TX
U Florida COM-Shands Hospital - Gainesville, FL
U Florida COM-Shands Hospital - Gainesville, FL
U Florida COM-Shands Hospital - Gainesville, FL
U Florida COM-Shands Hospital - Orlando, FL
Phys Medicine & Rehab (1)
Emory Univ SOM - Atlanta, GA
Psychiatry (8)
U Colorado SOM - Aurora, CO
NCC-Walter Reed Nat Milit Med Ctr - Bethesda, MD
Vanderbilt University Med Center - Nashville, TN
U Arizona COM at Tucson - Tucson, AZ
U Florida COM - Jacksonville, FL
Medical University of SC - Charleston, SC
LSU SOM - New Orleans, LA
Jackson Memorial Hospital - Miami, FL
Radiology-Diagnostic (6)
Albany Medical Center - Albany, NY
Jackson Memorial Hospital - Miami, FL
U Massachusetts Med School - Worcester, MA
Florida Hospital - Orlando, FL
University of Chicago Med Center - Chicago, IL
U Michigan Hospitals - Ann Arbor, MI
Urology (1)
Mt. Sinai Med Center - Miami Beach, FL
------------------------------------------------------
Partial Match / Unmatched (6)
Medicine-Preliminary: Icahn SOM Beth Israel - New York, NY
Surgery-Preliminary: Rush University Med Ctr - Chicago, IL
Transitional: Eisenhower Army Medical Center - Fort Gordon, GA
Transitional: Orange Park Med Center - Orange Park, FL
Unmatched
Unmatched
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Hey, guys. MS4 here. For the past year or so, I’ve been struggling to decide whether to provide realistic information about HWCOM or whether to just enjoy the end of med school and let you stumble upon all of this as my classmates and I have. Unfortunately for FIU, I’ve recently experienced “the straw that broke the camel’s back” and at this point, I feel it’s my ethical obligation as a soon-to-be physician to present to you the risk vs benefit profile of FIU. So, because I’m equal parts frustrated and bored, I’ll be posting a daily blog for the next 5 days or so presenting to you something that sounds amazing about FIU, but is actually terrible. For what it’s worth, I do encourage you to take this information (as with any information from a random internet stranger) with a grain of salt, but I do encourage you to ask about these things as you interview or during second look visits. Without further ado, here’s my first post!
Step 1 scores: AKA, the most important thing in the residency selection process.
HWCOM students absolutely crush the USMLE Step 1 and 2 Examinations. This leads to very competitive applicants for residencies and solid matches. On the surface, it seems as if our innovative curriculum is amazing and does a fantastic job at preparing us for these challenges; however, once you’re privy to additional information, you learn that this is much less of an influence as you’d expect.
My class, the Class of 2017, started our MS1 year with 122 students, and next month we will graduate 114 students. This doesn’t sound bad; a net attrition of 6% is probably within the normal range of medical schools. Unfortunately, our class actually lost 26 members (and gained 18 members from the class of 2016). A 21% repeat / attrition rate is not even in the same galaxy as other medical schools’ rates. So, how are failing so many students?
FIU has very unique, roundabout, and mysterious grading and promotional criteria. FIU uses an equal mix of statistics and black magic to scale -1.7 SD from the average of a course to equal a 75 and the highest grade of the course to equal a 100. Course averages 75 and above are passing grades; however averages between 75 and 79 are unofficially designated a “low pass” (which does not appear on your transcripts or anywhere else for that matter). If you end a year with a cumulative course average between 75 and 79, you may be required to repeat the year- even if you have never failed a single course. If you fail two courses during your FIU career- even if they’re two years apart and if you successfully remediate the examinations that you failed- you may be required to repeat one or more years. Why am I using the word “may” and speaking rather vaguely?
There are no hard guidelines at FIU for repeating a year or being dismissed from medical school. The entire process is controlled by a committee who, by rule, are protected from having its members’ identities revealed until you are sitting in front of them. This committee has near absolute control over this process which can cost you an extra $100k or your medical career. As you can expect, rulings are very arbitrary, and although FIU will speak to this process as being flexible and accommodating to the individual student, most of the people who go before this committee will say that they were not pleased with the outcome they were given. Why hasn’t our very high repeat / attrition rates been addressed by the LCME?
The promotional committee tends to give weaker students two options: electively “volunteer” to repeat a year or run the risk of being forced to repeat (which would be noted on the Dean’s Letter) or be dismissed. Most students choose to repeat the year. So, using my class as an example, the bottom 20% of the class was held back. At the same time, the bottom 15% of the class before mine joined my class and generally thrived since they had seen all of this material the year prior. (Side note: This is no bueno for class rank and for future grades). How does this relate to Step scores?
Basically, those students who would have scored a 210 or a 215 and likely gone on to become an amazing clinician in a non-competitive specialty are removed which makes our Step averages higher.
TL;DR. We started with 122 students and 26 students were dropped. If you cut the bottom 1/5 of any data set, your stats look better. High Step 1 and 2 scores- they sound amazing, but they’re really terrible.
Edit to change "ACGME" to "LCME"
Step 1 scores: AKA, the most important thing in the residency selection process.
HWCOM students absolutely crush the USMLE Step 1 and 2 Examinations. This leads to very competitive applicants for residencies and solid matches. On the surface, it seems as if our innovative curriculum is amazing and does a fantastic job at preparing us for these challenges; however, once you’re privy to additional information, you learn that this is much less of an influence as you’d expect.
My class, the Class of 2017, started our MS1 year with 122 students, and next month we will graduate 114 students. This doesn’t sound bad; a net attrition of 6% is probably within the normal range of medical schools. Unfortunately, our class actually lost 26 members (and gained 18 members from the class of 2016). A 21% repeat / attrition rate is not even in the same galaxy as other medical schools’ rates. So, how are failing so many students?
FIU has very unique, roundabout, and mysterious grading and promotional criteria. FIU uses an equal mix of statistics and black magic to scale -1.7 SD from the average of a course to equal a 75 and the highest grade of the course to equal a 100. Course averages 75 and above are passing grades; however averages between 75 and 79 are unofficially designated a “low pass” (which does not appear on your transcripts or anywhere else for that matter). If you end a year with a cumulative course average between 75 and 79, you may be required to repeat the year- even if you have never failed a single course. If you fail two courses during your FIU career- even if they’re two years apart and if you successfully remediate the examinations that you failed- you may be required to repeat one or more years. Why am I using the word “may” and speaking rather vaguely?
There are no hard guidelines at FIU for repeating a year or being dismissed from medical school. The entire process is controlled by a committee who, by rule, are protected from having its members’ identities revealed until you are sitting in front of them. This committee has near absolute control over this process which can cost you an extra $100k or your medical career. As you can expect, rulings are very arbitrary, and although FIU will speak to this process as being flexible and accommodating to the individual student, most of the people who go before this committee will say that they were not pleased with the outcome they were given. Why hasn’t our very high repeat / attrition rates been addressed by the LCME?
The promotional committee tends to give weaker students two options: electively “volunteer” to repeat a year or run the risk of being forced to repeat (which would be noted on the Dean’s Letter) or be dismissed. Most students choose to repeat the year. So, using my class as an example, the bottom 20% of the class was held back. At the same time, the bottom 15% of the class before mine joined my class and generally thrived since they had seen all of this material the year prior. (Side note: This is no bueno for class rank and for future grades). How does this relate to Step scores?
Basically, those students who would have scored a 210 or a 215 and likely gone on to become an amazing clinician in a non-competitive specialty are removed which makes our Step averages higher.
TL;DR. We started with 122 students and 26 students were dropped. If you cut the bottom 1/5 of any data set, your stats look better. High Step 1 and 2 scores- they sound amazing, but they’re really terrible.
Edit to change "ACGME" to "LCME"
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^Now that's a real Medical Student Ambassador
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No lies here
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Got the status change to "admissions committee review completed" 
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Error 3275
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is there any reason why some are different from this list and the other list? like one less neurosurgery and surgery prelim match?
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Sorry to hear. Hopefully they have some good movement. Did you find out via email or portal update?
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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Error 3275
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The neurosurgery at Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr is actually a neurology match. The prelim surgery match had a advanced position (which was already noted), so they were fixed in the second list.
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ok ty 😀
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Is the holding back of students integrated into the curriculum? When I was talking to a student they said your exams are on a literal curve, meaning that some students are going to do poorly no matter what.
Also I don't think you answered this: Why hasn’t our very high repeat / attrition rates been addressed by the ACGME?
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Exactly. Due to operating on a standard deviation, 3-4% of students will score below -1.7 SD and will fail every course. After two courses, those near the bottom of the class tend to be sent to the promotions committee and end up repeating, which opens up new spots at the bottom for the new bottom 3-4% of people to fail. This continues for 2 years. (Of course I'm oversimplifying a bit, but you get my point.)
As part of the remediation process, FIU gets signed documents from those students saying that they recognize their knowledge deficits and "voluntarily choose to repeat" a year instead of being forced to repeat. This looks considerably better on their transcripts / Dean's letter / licensing applications than having a adverse action taken against them and is much better than running the risk of the committee recommending dismissal. I presume that students "voluntarily choosing" to repeat isn't looked down upon by the LCME as much as forcing 20% of the class to repeat. The LCME is coming for a visit this year, though, so we'll know pretty soon.
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Accepted!!! Just got the email and portal update.
OOS, 511, 3.85
OOS, 511, 3.85
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Bravo!
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Expansion: Resources and Reputation
Today’s post is something that may or may not be on your radar at this point, and that’s the rapid expansion of FIU. Sticking with my theme, on first glance, expansion sounds great. Increasing the footprint of the College of Medicine, expanding our alumni networks, and training with other professional students are all defensible in their own right; however, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows.
Back in 2013, there were approximately 40 M4s, 80 M3s, 120 M2s, and 120 M1s. Regardless of your study preferences, from the interview rooms on the 6th floor, to the OSCE rooms on the 4th floor, to the small group rooms in AHC4, to our medical student lounge, and to our medical library and our lecture halls there was always a place to hang out and study. Always.
Naturally, things got a bit tighter as the College reached capacity; however, it was still fine. Then, we started educating DPT students in our facilities. Then, we started a PA school. Then, we added a Graduate Certificate in Molecular and Biomedical Sciences program. Then, we started teaching some premedical courses in our facilities. Of course, none of these plans were disclosed to us when we interviewed. Ultimately, there’s a lot more wear-and-tear on our equipment, and space isn’t that easy to find for studying or for meetings. (We also lost our beloved med student lounge and things tend to “go missing” a lot more often)
On the clinical side, to the best of my knowledge, we don’t share any rotation sites with the PAs; however, since we don’t have our own hospitals, we do compete with students from Nova, UM, Ross, St. George’s, and the American University of Antigua (more on this later). What this means varies by hospital and by rotation. At Broward General for EM, for example, Nova has a strong affiliation with the hospital as it’s their primary affiliation site. This means that Nova students are scheduled first for shifts, and we get scheduled for what’s left. This had numerous disadvantages including that all the FIU students in my rotation worked every weekend while the Nova students were off three out of four weekends. At one of my colleagues Family Medicine sites, he worked alongside eight Caribbean and Nova students with only one attending. I could easily add another five personal examples here, but I won’t for brevity’s sake. Trust me that we absolutely destroy these places on our evaluations, but, curiously, nothing has changed from discussing these same issues with other classes.
This next part may seem a bit elitist or pretentious, but reputation is something that’s important. Ultimately, it determines the value of our degrees and our job prospects. On this front, our graduates and our current students have invested a lot of time and money to build FIU’s reputation from absolutely nothing to the place where we can match 9/9 orthopedic surgery, 4/4 ophthalmology, 3/3 neurosurgery, 2/2 ENT, 1/1 urology, etc . That reputation is why you applied, right? So, now that I’ve made my defense against pretention, let’s jump right into it.
FIU has an early acceptance program where ten sophomores at FIU undergrad are offered guaranteed admission to HWCOM. We also have a $21,000 FIU graduate certificate program where if you complete six science classes (and two nonscience classes), you’re guaranteed admission to HWCOM. We have a partnership agreement with the American University of Antigua where they send their M3 and M4 students to our clinical sites wearing FIU white coats and compete with us for procedures; after they finish, they are awarded a “FIU Core Clinical Clerkship Certificate”. Finally, FIU is in the process of finalizing a six year online “nights and weekends” medical school curriculum where you literally attend medical school online for four years (then go to the clinic for two). Our selection process- and very soon our educational process- will soon be ridiculously watered down. I can’t overstate how bad this will be for our students once it’s implemented.
Since I’m covering resources, I’ll end on a quick note about FIU student activity fees. Every student- undergraduate, graduate, law, and medicine- is required by FIU policy to pay a set fee to which is set to “FIU Main” which is then redistributed back to various organizations and Colleges. Unfortunately, this fee was created before the medical school was established so it is based on credit hours. We are billed at the current fee x 40 credit hours while undergrads, grad students, and law students are billed at 12-20 hours (depending on their enrollment). Despite individually paying four times the fee and our size increasing from 40 to 480 students, we still receive roughly the same amount of funding from FIU that we received when our school was founded. We’ve been fighting this for years, but the FIU undergraduates control the funding boards, so we’ve been unsuccessful.
TL;DR Expansion- it sounds amazing, but it’s really terrible.
Today’s post is something that may or may not be on your radar at this point, and that’s the rapid expansion of FIU. Sticking with my theme, on first glance, expansion sounds great. Increasing the footprint of the College of Medicine, expanding our alumni networks, and training with other professional students are all defensible in their own right; however, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows.
Back in 2013, there were approximately 40 M4s, 80 M3s, 120 M2s, and 120 M1s. Regardless of your study preferences, from the interview rooms on the 6th floor, to the OSCE rooms on the 4th floor, to the small group rooms in AHC4, to our medical student lounge, and to our medical library and our lecture halls there was always a place to hang out and study. Always.
Naturally, things got a bit tighter as the College reached capacity; however, it was still fine. Then, we started educating DPT students in our facilities. Then, we started a PA school. Then, we added a Graduate Certificate in Molecular and Biomedical Sciences program. Then, we started teaching some premedical courses in our facilities. Of course, none of these plans were disclosed to us when we interviewed. Ultimately, there’s a lot more wear-and-tear on our equipment, and space isn’t that easy to find for studying or for meetings. (We also lost our beloved med student lounge and things tend to “go missing” a lot more often)
On the clinical side, to the best of my knowledge, we don’t share any rotation sites with the PAs; however, since we don’t have our own hospitals, we do compete with students from Nova, UM, Ross, St. George’s, and the American University of Antigua (more on this later). What this means varies by hospital and by rotation. At Broward General for EM, for example, Nova has a strong affiliation with the hospital as it’s their primary affiliation site. This means that Nova students are scheduled first for shifts, and we get scheduled for what’s left. This had numerous disadvantages including that all the FIU students in my rotation worked every weekend while the Nova students were off three out of four weekends. At one of my colleagues Family Medicine sites, he worked alongside eight Caribbean and Nova students with only one attending. I could easily add another five personal examples here, but I won’t for brevity’s sake. Trust me that we absolutely destroy these places on our evaluations, but, curiously, nothing has changed from discussing these same issues with other classes.
This next part may seem a bit elitist or pretentious, but reputation is something that’s important. Ultimately, it determines the value of our degrees and our job prospects. On this front, our graduates and our current students have invested a lot of time and money to build FIU’s reputation from absolutely nothing to the place where we can match 9/9 orthopedic surgery, 4/4 ophthalmology, 3/3 neurosurgery, 2/2 ENT, 1/1 urology, etc . That reputation is why you applied, right? So, now that I’ve made my defense against pretention, let’s jump right into it.
FIU has an early acceptance program where ten sophomores at FIU undergrad are offered guaranteed admission to HWCOM. We also have a $21,000 FIU graduate certificate program where if you complete six science classes (and two nonscience classes), you’re guaranteed admission to HWCOM. We have a partnership agreement with the American University of Antigua where they send their M3 and M4 students to our clinical sites wearing FIU white coats and compete with us for procedures; after they finish, they are awarded a “FIU Core Clinical Clerkship Certificate”. Finally, FIU is in the process of finalizing a six year online “nights and weekends” medical school curriculum where you literally attend medical school online for four years (then go to the clinic for two). Our selection process- and very soon our educational process- will soon be ridiculously watered down. I can’t overstate how bad this will be for our students once it’s implemented.
Since I’m covering resources, I’ll end on a quick note about FIU student activity fees. Every student- undergraduate, graduate, law, and medicine- is required by FIU policy to pay a set fee to which is set to “FIU Main” which is then redistributed back to various organizations and Colleges. Unfortunately, this fee was created before the medical school was established so it is based on credit hours. We are billed at the current fee x 40 credit hours while undergrads, grad students, and law students are billed at 12-20 hours (depending on their enrollment). Despite individually paying four times the fee and our size increasing from 40 to 480 students, we still receive roughly the same amount of funding from FIU that we received when our school was founded. We’ve been fighting this for years, but the FIU undergraduates control the funding boards, so we’ve been unsuccessful.
TL;DR Expansion- it sounds amazing, but it’s really terrible.
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Struggling with Pharm right now. Freaking out about the Final, need to beat the -1.7 Z score and still freaked out that I may have problems with Administration if I pass with a low pass. The fear of reprimand from smiling Administrators is very real.
On another note, the "electives" (humanities based lectures) absolutely suck a lot of time during M1 (and probably subsequent years too) here. This is not a problem seen at other schools between all the mandatory elective course time that you have to put in. Students at other schools (I'm being general and vague here) are not having to deal with the vast amount of time wasting and have much more time to structure their days and their study habits than we do. So for everyone thinking about how great the humanism based curriculum is, think again. It will drain your time and take a lot of precious study time away from you.
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While I wont doubt anything you say, I'm quite skeptical about the online program. I haven't heard anything of it in my first year and I'm hard pressed to see how an online MD will fly with the LCME. I can't find any precedence for an online US MD either.
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Thanks. Just saw it. Kind of disturbing that its just a hiring announcement and not an actual description of what is going to happen. I still don't see how its going to fly with the LCME though. Is it just going to be normal admissions criteria with an option to go online? Also, I'm hoping this doesn't get off the ground soon
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Unfortunately, that's kinda how FIU works. The same thing happened with the PA program, the AUA affiliation, the DNP program, etc. They send out a "hey look what we did" email without consulting or notifying us. I'm curious about LCME implications myself, but they wouldn't have created a position and hired someone at a six figure salary if they didn't have reassuring information. Still, yeah, we would be the only US MD school with an online program. I still can't even type that without laughing.
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Yeh, its cringeworthy
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I get what you're saying but I do have to note that I've learned 95% of what I have by being at home and using Tegrity. I don't like the idea of an online program as I feel it takes away from the academic prowess or "prestige" of the medical education experience and feels like the beginning of becoming a diploma-mill, however I do have to acknowledge the insane amount of material that I learned using online sources like Tegrity, sketchy, USMLE-Rx, etc. That being said, I certainly agree in the hopes that this doesn't launch any time soon (or at all).
B
BadNewsBears2016
This discussion is pure gold and should be done for every school.
Kudos, NEU305, for speaking real talk.
Kudos, NEU305, for speaking real talk.
This post is in comment to my colleague’s, NEU305. It is going to be long, so hold on to your britches. The paragraphs are in response to each of his and may seem random as I did not copy/paste all of his in, but they go in order. In addition, I will be responding to his posts on here to provide another perspective about FIU. (Please don’t fault me for tardiness in response as I am on a time-consuming rotation and didn’t previously come on here much, but I will respond in time.)
I’d like to start by pointing out that the vast majority of the class that took the Step 1 in our year did indeed crush Step 1. I think taking it in 3rd year is a HUGE advantage and I would not be surprised if, in 20 years, medical schools were nearly all like this. It is seriously beneficial and I would recommend going anywhere that did this.
Let’s start with the basics. 75-79 is a “low pass” for the school’s use, but >75 is a “pass” overall. These scores are used to identify students that are at risk of failing future classes. School resource individuals, such as those involved with tutoring, then reach out to these students to help identify deficiencies in studying to help prevent this from happening in the next class. These are not used to identify students to “fail” and repeat.
In addition, there are guidelines to repeating and there are VERY hard guidelines to dismissal (It does not look good to dismiss students). The process for this is similar at the vast majority of medical schools and the rulings are absolutely not arbitrary. “Most will say they are not pleased with the outcome”- this will be in general, but you would only generally know of those going in front of a committee who had a bad outcome (held back) and they would obviously not be pleased. If you repeat a year anywhere, it is going to be expensive because it is another year of medical school. Let us remember that you are taking the information from one student who had a seemingly negative experience. I can respect the attempt at advice being given from trying to show the negative side, but I also want to remind those considering the school that this is one perspective. Why hasn’t it been addressed by the LCME? Also consider that it is NOT actually an issue.
With respect to the point that class members joining from above you affects class rank and grades, it doesn’t. Their grades continue with them throughout their years and don’t affect the majority of those in the class they are transferring to.
As to whether those in our class who failed would have brought down our step score, consider the original point this poster made- that our class consisted of a number of people who failed from the year above. Had this been the case, in all likelihood, they brought down our step score average. Regardless of the 8 person difference (if this is the actual number- he stated 26 in ours/ 18 the year above), this was not going to bring down the average an appreciable difference than it already was “brought down” by those joining our class who failed.
3-4% of students will fail every course? This is not the case as well and “oversimplifying” is not an exaggeration. This is an assumption made by the poster. Let me put it like this- the classes are curved such that the average is made to be approximately 85% (give or take a couple percentage points). The point that -1.7 SD causes a fail is false- <75% causes a fail. This is true of all classes. If you are <75%, you probably are already at a -1.7 SD to begin with, but it is not curved such that 3-4 people will fail every class. The curve is not intended to make sure there are people below 75% but- people DO FAIL. This happens and I am sure it happens at every such medical school. Don’t put in the time, and those are the results you will get. The people that fail are those that generally were scoring low, getting poor grades, and not taking advantage of resources. These people repeat years. Those near the bottom of the class are NOT sent to the promotions committee just because they are at the bottom of the class. How would that even be feasible? How did this many people fail in a class? I will tell you it is not the curriculum. If it was, the fantastic match list that we have would not be possible, and this isn’t including those students that would have matched at “name-brand” programs had they not had other major priorities (eg, couples matching, being close to family, etc.- I’m speaking from knowing these people and knowing the opportunities they otherwise had.) Look at the match list and know your opportunities are not limited by coming to FIU. The ortho/ophtho/neurosurgery/ENT/urology matches are seriously not to be overlooked. These match statistics were fantastic. Again, why MIGHT students have failed? Please see the next 2 paragraphs.
Now, here is the big issue- people are admitted to medical school under the assumption that they will be academically ready. This is NOT always the case. This is why there are interviews and poor academic candidates are excluded in spite of possibly excellent resumes otherwise. But sometimes, people are admitted that are not ready academically for the medical curriculum. It is disappointing that I have to write this on an individual school’s SDN page, but it is VERY IMPORTANT that applicants take a very introspective look at themselves and whether they are ready for the academic challenges of medical school (it is expensive $$$). Our curriculum is not unlike the vast majority of schools, and the points being made about our professional development course being a waste of time are false (although they are terribly boring…) and the point that other schools do not have them are additionally false.
Here is the main point. If you have done well academically throughout undergrad, you will likely succeed at this school. And you will succeed at any other medical school. It is those students who are shaky about their academics but are applying to medicine. I need to point out that there are tests, not only in medical school, but in residency and throughout your medical career. This is why academics are so harped upon throughout every stage of your medical career. They want those that they know will succeed academically and be an asset through the school. Extracurriculars (research, volunteering, etc) are fantastic, but will be limited by what you are able to accomplish in the classroom because medicine involves a HUGE AMOUNT of information, in medical school and moving forward. If you cannot digest this information, you will be only doing a disservice to your patients.
Additionally, did we lose our beloved med student lounge? Yes, it’s being used for interviews 🙁 (Bring back the ping pong oh medical school Gods..for real though!) BUT, does the expansion really affect the vast majority of medical students? NO. NO. NO. We take an anatomy class with PT students (at least I still think we do). People complain about that, but it is seriously a minor thing to have to share with other people (come on now..). As for the PA school and other things this medical school is doing, I applaud them for their efforts. They are sincerely working to expand the educational capabilities FIU has to offer. In all honesty, if you come to FIU as a PA or DPT student, you may actually have legitimate complaints about it being all about the med students, but the opposite is not true.
On the clinical side, as is noted by the poster, please take note of the verbiage. We are talking about the experience of one individual with secondhand experience. There are deficits to sharing with other medical schools. The vast majority of the time? Not a problem. Any rotation in the Baptist system is superb (despite people complaining about everything medical students complain of). Here is something not noted- we don’t have to compete with residents for the vast majority of things because Baptist has no residents other than family medicine at West Kendall. This means 1-on-1 experience with ALL attendings. This is much more valuable than is being stated. The vast majority of schools work with attendings who then communicate through residents. You do the VAST majority of your work without them. Are there clinical sites less desirable than others? Absolutely. Broward is terrible (in my experience on one rotation), if not just for the fact that the drive is horrible. And other sites have their benefits and deficits in different rotations.
With respect to FIU’s admission process, these are complaints by the original poster that could also be taken in a different light. FIU takes students from its own medical school? First of all, this is not a new program to medical schools. Second of all, FIU’s mission is to develop medical students who will work in the Miami and Florida community in the future. The best place to find these students- FIU, where the vast majority are local Miami natives. We have several FIU students in the 4TH class who are absolutely fantastic and have done so well in the match, so the idea of taking from FIU as being a detriment is terrible. Third, look at the match statistics of those who stayed in Florida- it was something like 25-30%. Now look at where everyone else matched. If you come from out of state, it is not a detriment in the slightest to come here (minus the out-of-state tuition cost, which is rough, BUT will be seen at all Florida schools and all public schools in general). Next, I have never seen nor heard of anyone seeing anyone from the American U. Antigua. “Competing for procedures” is a statement that can obviously be blown up by one person stating that without a competing opinion. Whether that is indeed an issue, I can confidently say that it affects the minority of students. Finally, FIU is indeed attempting to pilot an online program for those that are not traditional students and are unable to take time off work to enter medical school for reasons such as raising a family, making money to make it on one’s own, etc. We also have several people that were in, or once in, our class that had a family that struggled with medical school. The idea is that this program will allow those the opportunity they might not have otherwise had to become a physician without sacrificing the income they need to survive. Will that water down the medical school? I do not think the ~6-8 students that will enter the program will do so (you will also, obviously, never see them). Will it work? Who knows. It is a pilot program and FIU is attempting something no other school has otherwise tried. Consider it a professional success for yourself if it does work because it will be one more reason to know FIU as a medical school.
As for the activity fees, we do pay more than the law school. This is a ticky tack complaint involving the FIU student government and school. We did just receive 2x the funding for medical students that we were previously receiving (as of today that we were all notified). This otherwise should seriously not pay (zing) into any other consideration in making medical school decisions.
If anyone has any other questions, feel free to PM me and I will help to answer them as much as I can. I will try to answer them in a timely manner, but note what I said in the first paragraph about the rotation I’m on. Again, consider that I am one student providing one opinion as I hope you will about the previous poster.
Tlr take one person’s opinion with a grain of salt (including my own)
I’d like to start by pointing out that the vast majority of the class that took the Step 1 in our year did indeed crush Step 1. I think taking it in 3rd year is a HUGE advantage and I would not be surprised if, in 20 years, medical schools were nearly all like this. It is seriously beneficial and I would recommend going anywhere that did this.
Let’s start with the basics. 75-79 is a “low pass” for the school’s use, but >75 is a “pass” overall. These scores are used to identify students that are at risk of failing future classes. School resource individuals, such as those involved with tutoring, then reach out to these students to help identify deficiencies in studying to help prevent this from happening in the next class. These are not used to identify students to “fail” and repeat.
In addition, there are guidelines to repeating and there are VERY hard guidelines to dismissal (It does not look good to dismiss students). The process for this is similar at the vast majority of medical schools and the rulings are absolutely not arbitrary. “Most will say they are not pleased with the outcome”- this will be in general, but you would only generally know of those going in front of a committee who had a bad outcome (held back) and they would obviously not be pleased. If you repeat a year anywhere, it is going to be expensive because it is another year of medical school. Let us remember that you are taking the information from one student who had a seemingly negative experience. I can respect the attempt at advice being given from trying to show the negative side, but I also want to remind those considering the school that this is one perspective. Why hasn’t it been addressed by the LCME? Also consider that it is NOT actually an issue.
With respect to the point that class members joining from above you affects class rank and grades, it doesn’t. Their grades continue with them throughout their years and don’t affect the majority of those in the class they are transferring to.
As to whether those in our class who failed would have brought down our step score, consider the original point this poster made- that our class consisted of a number of people who failed from the year above. Had this been the case, in all likelihood, they brought down our step score average. Regardless of the 8 person difference (if this is the actual number- he stated 26 in ours/ 18 the year above), this was not going to bring down the average an appreciable difference than it already was “brought down” by those joining our class who failed.
3-4% of students will fail every course? This is not the case as well and “oversimplifying” is not an exaggeration. This is an assumption made by the poster. Let me put it like this- the classes are curved such that the average is made to be approximately 85% (give or take a couple percentage points). The point that -1.7 SD causes a fail is false- <75% causes a fail. This is true of all classes. If you are <75%, you probably are already at a -1.7 SD to begin with, but it is not curved such that 3-4 people will fail every class. The curve is not intended to make sure there are people below 75% but- people DO FAIL. This happens and I am sure it happens at every such medical school. Don’t put in the time, and those are the results you will get. The people that fail are those that generally were scoring low, getting poor grades, and not taking advantage of resources. These people repeat years. Those near the bottom of the class are NOT sent to the promotions committee just because they are at the bottom of the class. How would that even be feasible? How did this many people fail in a class? I will tell you it is not the curriculum. If it was, the fantastic match list that we have would not be possible, and this isn’t including those students that would have matched at “name-brand” programs had they not had other major priorities (eg, couples matching, being close to family, etc.- I’m speaking from knowing these people and knowing the opportunities they otherwise had.) Look at the match list and know your opportunities are not limited by coming to FIU. The ortho/ophtho/neurosurgery/ENT/urology matches are seriously not to be overlooked. These match statistics were fantastic. Again, why MIGHT students have failed? Please see the next 2 paragraphs.
Now, here is the big issue- people are admitted to medical school under the assumption that they will be academically ready. This is NOT always the case. This is why there are interviews and poor academic candidates are excluded in spite of possibly excellent resumes otherwise. But sometimes, people are admitted that are not ready academically for the medical curriculum. It is disappointing that I have to write this on an individual school’s SDN page, but it is VERY IMPORTANT that applicants take a very introspective look at themselves and whether they are ready for the academic challenges of medical school (it is expensive $$$). Our curriculum is not unlike the vast majority of schools, and the points being made about our professional development course being a waste of time are false (although they are terribly boring…) and the point that other schools do not have them are additionally false.
Here is the main point. If you have done well academically throughout undergrad, you will likely succeed at this school. And you will succeed at any other medical school. It is those students who are shaky about their academics but are applying to medicine. I need to point out that there are tests, not only in medical school, but in residency and throughout your medical career. This is why academics are so harped upon throughout every stage of your medical career. They want those that they know will succeed academically and be an asset through the school. Extracurriculars (research, volunteering, etc) are fantastic, but will be limited by what you are able to accomplish in the classroom because medicine involves a HUGE AMOUNT of information, in medical school and moving forward. If you cannot digest this information, you will be only doing a disservice to your patients.
Additionally, did we lose our beloved med student lounge? Yes, it’s being used for interviews 🙁 (Bring back the ping pong oh medical school Gods..for real though!) BUT, does the expansion really affect the vast majority of medical students? NO. NO. NO. We take an anatomy class with PT students (at least I still think we do). People complain about that, but it is seriously a minor thing to have to share with other people (come on now..). As for the PA school and other things this medical school is doing, I applaud them for their efforts. They are sincerely working to expand the educational capabilities FIU has to offer. In all honesty, if you come to FIU as a PA or DPT student, you may actually have legitimate complaints about it being all about the med students, but the opposite is not true.
On the clinical side, as is noted by the poster, please take note of the verbiage. We are talking about the experience of one individual with secondhand experience. There are deficits to sharing with other medical schools. The vast majority of the time? Not a problem. Any rotation in the Baptist system is superb (despite people complaining about everything medical students complain of). Here is something not noted- we don’t have to compete with residents for the vast majority of things because Baptist has no residents other than family medicine at West Kendall. This means 1-on-1 experience with ALL attendings. This is much more valuable than is being stated. The vast majority of schools work with attendings who then communicate through residents. You do the VAST majority of your work without them. Are there clinical sites less desirable than others? Absolutely. Broward is terrible (in my experience on one rotation), if not just for the fact that the drive is horrible. And other sites have their benefits and deficits in different rotations.
With respect to FIU’s admission process, these are complaints by the original poster that could also be taken in a different light. FIU takes students from its own medical school? First of all, this is not a new program to medical schools. Second of all, FIU’s mission is to develop medical students who will work in the Miami and Florida community in the future. The best place to find these students- FIU, where the vast majority are local Miami natives. We have several FIU students in the 4TH class who are absolutely fantastic and have done so well in the match, so the idea of taking from FIU as being a detriment is terrible. Third, look at the match statistics of those who stayed in Florida- it was something like 25-30%. Now look at where everyone else matched. If you come from out of state, it is not a detriment in the slightest to come here (minus the out-of-state tuition cost, which is rough, BUT will be seen at all Florida schools and all public schools in general). Next, I have never seen nor heard of anyone seeing anyone from the American U. Antigua. “Competing for procedures” is a statement that can obviously be blown up by one person stating that without a competing opinion. Whether that is indeed an issue, I can confidently say that it affects the minority of students. Finally, FIU is indeed attempting to pilot an online program for those that are not traditional students and are unable to take time off work to enter medical school for reasons such as raising a family, making money to make it on one’s own, etc. We also have several people that were in, or once in, our class that had a family that struggled with medical school. The idea is that this program will allow those the opportunity they might not have otherwise had to become a physician without sacrificing the income they need to survive. Will that water down the medical school? I do not think the ~6-8 students that will enter the program will do so (you will also, obviously, never see them). Will it work? Who knows. It is a pilot program and FIU is attempting something no other school has otherwise tried. Consider it a professional success for yourself if it does work because it will be one more reason to know FIU as a medical school.
As for the activity fees, we do pay more than the law school. This is a ticky tack complaint involving the FIU student government and school. We did just receive 2x the funding for medical students that we were previously receiving (as of today that we were all notified). This otherwise should seriously not pay (zing) into any other consideration in making medical school decisions.
If anyone has any other questions, feel free to PM me and I will help to answer them as much as I can. I will try to answer them in a timely manner, but note what I said in the first paragraph about the rotation I’m on. Again, consider that I am one student providing one opinion as I hope you will about the previous poster.
Tl
r take one person’s opinion with a grain of salt (including my own)- Joined
- Sep 17, 2013
- Messages
- 57
- Reaction score
- 60
I want to respond to these three comments to further explain. Admittedly, I oversimplified the stats that are run, and I made the assumption that the SDs wouldn't change after the transformation when I said that 3-4% of students fail every course. So I just took a look at the actual numbers for funsies:
4% failed GMC (5/128), 2% failed anatomy (2/127), 4% failed physiology (4/128), 6% failed pathology (7/126), 3% failed cardiology (4/125), 3% failed GI (3/119), 1% failed reproductive (1/115), 4% failed neuroscience (4/114). In reality; however, these percentages are slightly higher since final grades for those who fail the course, but pass the remediation exam are entered as a 75 in the final grade column. I only counted those with a final grade of 74 or below as failing. If you'd like to verify my numbers (Canvas>Settings>Performance Tracking>Course).
My second point that I feel is important to clarify is that there are well-defined guidelines to repeating and very hard guidelines to dismissal. If these exist, I would absolutely love to see them. As an M4 who sat in front of this board with another student who was facing dismissal, I've never seen them, nor had our fallen colleague. What I do know is what's in our student handbook. Conveniently, this document is publicly available, so I can share it. Page 24 and 26 deal with this process. Please make your own decisions whether this is well-defined or clear. http://medicine.fiu.edu/handbook/handbook.pdf
Anecdotally, I do know a student who never failed a single course but had an average between 75-80 during M1 and M2 and had to repeat a year.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2013
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 48
This post is in comment to my colleague’s, NEU305. It is going to be long, so hold on to your britches. The paragraphs are in response to each of his and may seem random as I did not copy/paste all of his in, but they go in order. In addition, I will be responding to his posts on here to provide another perspective about FIU. (Please don’t fault me for tardiness in response as I am on a time-consuming rotation and didn’t previously come on here much, but I will respond in time.)
I’d like to start by pointing out that the vast majority of the class that took the Step 1 in our year did indeed crush Step 1. I think taking it in 3rd year is a HUGE advantage and I would not be surprised if, in 20 years, medical schools were nearly all like this. It is seriously beneficial and I would recommend going anywhere that did this.
Let’s start with the basics. 75-79 is a “low pass” for the school’s use, but >75 is a “pass” overall. These scores are used to identify students that are at risk of failing future classes. School resource individuals, such as those involved with tutoring, then reach out to these students to help identify deficiencies in studying to help prevent this from happening in the next class. These are not used to identify students to “fail” and repeat.
In addition, there are guidelines to repeating and there are VERY hard guidelines to dismissal (It does not look good to dismiss students). The process for this is similar at the vast majority of medical schools and the rulings are absolutely not arbitrary. “Most will say they are not pleased with the outcome”- this will be in general, but you would only generally know of those going in front of a committee who had a bad outcome (held back) and they would obviously not be pleased. If you repeat a year anywhere, it is going to be expensive because it is another year of medical school. Let us remember that you are taking the information from one student who had a seemingly negative experience. I can respect the attempt at advice being given from trying to show the negative side, but I also want to remind those considering the school that this is one perspective. Why hasn’t it been addressed by the LCME? Also consider that it is NOT actually an issue.
With respect to the point that class members joining from above you affects class rank and grades, it doesn’t. Their grades continue with them throughout their years and don’t affect the majority of those in the class they are transferring to.
As to whether those in our class who failed would have brought down our step score, consider the original point this poster made- that our class consisted of a number of people who failed from the year above. Had this been the case, in all likelihood, they brought down our step score average. Regardless of the 8 person difference (if this is the actual number- he stated 26 in ours/ 18 the year above), this was not going to bring down the average an appreciable difference than it already was “brought down” by those joining our class who failed.
3-4% of students will fail every course? This is not the case as well and “oversimplifying” is not an exaggeration. This is an assumption made by the poster. Let me put it like this- the classes are curved such that the average is made to be approximately 85% (give or take a couple percentage points). The point that -1.7 SD causes a fail is false- <75% causes a fail. This is true of all classes. If you are <75%, you probably are already at a -1.7 SD to begin with, but it is not curved such that 3-4 people will fail every class. The curve is not intended to make sure there are people below 75% but- people DO FAIL. This happens and I am sure it happens at every such medical school. Don’t put in the time, and those are the results you will get. The people that fail are those that generally were scoring low, getting poor grades, and not taking advantage of resources. These people repeat years. Those near the bottom of the class are NOT sent to the promotions committee just because they are at the bottom of the class. How would that even be feasible? How did this many people fail in a class? I will tell you it is not the curriculum. If it was, the fantastic match list that we have would not be possible, and this isn’t including those students that would have matched at “name-brand” programs had they not had other major priorities (eg, couples matching, being close to family, etc.- I’m speaking from knowing these people and knowing the opportunities they otherwise had.) Look at the match list and know your opportunities are not limited by coming to FIU. The ortho/ophtho/neurosurgery/ENT/urology matches are seriously not to be overlooked. These match statistics were fantastic. Again, why MIGHT students have failed? Please see the next 2 paragraphs.
Now, here is the big issue- people are admitted to medical school under the assumption that they will be academically ready. This is NOT always the case. This is why there are interviews and poor academic candidates are excluded in spite of possibly excellent resumes otherwise. But sometimes, people are admitted that are not ready academically for the medical curriculum. It is disappointing that I have to write this on an individual school’s SDN page, but it is VERY IMPORTANT that applicants take a very introspective look at themselves and whether they are ready for the academic challenges of medical school (it is expensive $$$). Our curriculum is not unlike the vast majority of schools, and the points being made about our professional development course being a waste of time are false (although they are terribly boring…) and the point that other schools do not have them are additionally false.
Here is the main point. If you have done well academically throughout undergrad, you will likely succeed at this school. And you will succeed at any other medical school. It is those students who are shaky about their academics but are applying to medicine. I need to point out that there are tests, not only in medical school, but in residency and throughout your medical career. This is why academics are so harped upon throughout every stage of your medical career. They want those that they know will succeed academically and be an asset through the school. Extracurriculars (research, volunteering, etc) are fantastic, but will be limited by what you are able to accomplish in the classroom because medicine involves a HUGE AMOUNT of information, in medical school and moving forward. If you cannot digest this information, you will be only doing a disservice to your patients.
Additionally, did we lose our beloved med student lounge? Yes, it’s being used for interviews 🙁 (Bring back the ping pong oh medical school Gods..for real though!) BUT, does the expansion really affect the vast majority of medical students? NO. NO. NO. We take an anatomy class with PT students (at least I still think we do). People complain about that, but it is seriously a minor thing to have to share with other people (come on now..). As for the PA school and other things this medical school is doing, I applaud them for their efforts. They are sincerely working to expand the educational capabilities FIU has to offer. In all honesty, if you come to FIU as a PA or DPT student, you may actually have legitimate complaints about it being all about the med students, but the opposite is not true.
On the clinical side, as is noted by the poster, please take note of the verbiage. We are talking about the experience of one individual with secondhand experience. There are deficits to sharing with other medical schools. The vast majority of the time? Not a problem. Any rotation in the Baptist system is superb (despite people complaining about everything medical students complain of). Here is something not noted- we don’t have to compete with residents for the vast majority of things because Baptist has no residents other than family medicine at West Kendall. This means 1-on-1 experience with ALL attendings. This is much more valuable than is being stated. The vast majority of schools work with attendings who then communicate through residents. You do the VAST majority of your work without them. Are there clinical sites less desirable than others? Absolutely. Broward is terrible (in my experience on one rotation), if not just for the fact that the drive is horrible. And other sites have their benefits and deficits in different rotations.
With respect to FIU’s admission process, these are complaints by the original poster that could also be taken in a different light. FIU takes students from its own medical school? First of all, this is not a new program to medical schools. Second of all, FIU’s mission is to develop medical students who will work in the Miami and Florida community in the future. The best place to find these students- FIU, where the vast majority are local Miami natives. We have several FIU students in the 4TH class who are absolutely fantastic and have done so well in the match, so the idea of taking from FIU as being a detriment is terrible. Third, look at the match statistics of those who stayed in Florida- it was something like 25-30%. Now look at where everyone else matched. If you come from out of state, it is not a detriment in the slightest to come here (minus the out-of-state tuition cost, which is rough, BUT will be seen at all Florida schools and all public schools in general). Next, I have never seen nor heard of anyone seeing anyone from the American U. Antigua. “Competing for procedures” is a statement that can obviously be blown up by one person stating that without a competing opinion. Whether that is indeed an issue, I can confidently say that it affects the minority of students. Finally, FIU is indeed attempting to pilot an online program for those that are not traditional students and are unable to take time off work to enter medical school for reasons such as raising a family, making money to make it on one’s own, etc. We also have several people that were in, or once in, our class that had a family that struggled with medical school. The idea is that this program will allow those the opportunity they might not have otherwise had to become a physician without sacrificing the income they need to survive. Will that water down the medical school? I do not think the ~6-8 students that will enter the program will do so (you will also, obviously, never see them). Will it work? Who knows. It is a pilot program and FIU is attempting something no other school has otherwise tried. Consider it a professional success for yourself if it does work because it will be one more reason to know FIU as a medical school.
As for the activity fees, we do pay more than the law school. This is a ticky tack complaint involving the FIU student government and school. We did just receive 2x the funding for medical students that we were previously receiving (as of today that we were all notified). This otherwise should seriously not pay (zing) into any other consideration in making medical school decisions.
If anyone has any other questions, feel free to PM me and I will help to answer them as much as I can. I will try to answer them in a timely manner, but note what I said in the first paragraph about the rotation I’m on. Again, consider that I am one student providing one opinion as I hope you will about the previous poster.
Tl
"I will tell you it is not the curriculum. If it was, the fantastic match list that we have would not be possible..."
Most of what I achieved in medical school has been in spite of FIU, not thanks to it. We have some amazing matches this year, but those students would have excelled anywhere and may have matched a tier above coming from a better school. What the match list does not show are those who did NOT match in their 1st choice specialty, be it plastic surgery, interventional rads, dermatology, etc. Nor does it make obvious the multiple students who took an additional external research year to match into a competitive specialty because FIU is obviously unable to provide that internally.
My opinion is that there is absolutely no reason to attend medical school at FIU unless 1) you've failed to gain acceptance to any other US MD school, 2) you're an FIU lifer, 3) you're attached to Miami and couldn't get in to UM, 4) scholarship.
I'd love to hear any other reasons for prospective students to claim that FIU is their "top choice."
Yep, I will not dispute those statistics. I will also note that there is no mention (or way to know ) of overlap between students among those individual classes (ie. who failed 2 classes and are included in those statistics). I will also refer to my previous paragraphs on academic readiness for medical school. I do not know that certain students were academically ready for medical school to begin with and I imagine that will be more apparent at newer schools than Duke or Harvard, for instance. Again, this is speculation to circumstances, which may also have included other things not academically related. Regardless, I urge those interested to look at the outcomes of succeeding in this medical school when making a decision, which one can do with appropriate studying habits and academic knowledge base.
In regards to the guidelines, I urge you to speak to the school leadership in this regard. But there are not people being dismissed or held back at random to better improve the outlook of the school. The people who were in front of the committee had a consistent record of difficulty with the coursework and evidence of struggling. As the poster mentioned, failing years and being consistently dismissed from school would be looked poorly upon by the LCME. Yet, there have been no issues. You can take the previous poster's speculation into account about why, but I sincerely doubt the LCME would look past something such as this (my speculation).
With respect to the anecdotal evidence of a person being required to repeat without failing a course, I can imagine their record was consistent enough to warrant such action. At a certain point, it is more beneficial for a medical student to repeat if they do not have the appropriate knowledge base than to continue the year they are in as they will continue to struggle, which will only manifest in future courses in addition to clinical coursework when they are working with patients. But students who struggle in a course and use the resources available to them appropriately to improve will not be randomly held back or dismissed because they struggled because, come on, medical school's hard.
Edit: added "than" to the last paragraph
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I am sorry you feel that way, but the match list speaks for itself. You also won't find the information about who didn't match into their first choice specialty on ANY match list. Those people that did not match into those competitive specialties need to be realistic about what they are applying to to begin with, which any academic adviser will tell you at any medical school (and feel free to look up every ortho/derm/any specialty outside of primary care's "guide to applying to that specialty" and I guarantee that it's on the first page). There are people that don't match derm at Harvard's medical school and I met a number of applicants at my interviews at schools such as Miami and Yale who took a year of research in order to be more competitive in their respective specialties. But the reasons you mentioned as "absolutely no reason to attend medical school at FIU unless..." are absurd.
NOW, with that in mind, I will make a note of the research opportunities available at the school. There are definitely not as many available as if you went to an academic facility with an associated medical facility (eg. Shands and UF) because we do not have the active physician-researchers just working on campus. Many students work with researchers associated with Miami, among others, in order to get the research they need. It is tough to get research, I won't lie, but I can tell you that if you talk to those students that did, they will tell you it's absolutely doable and not necessarily a limiting factor. As a student, you will need to be more active in pursuing those opportunities, but they are there for you to find.
I submit to you a quote from last year's application thread that echoes everything I'm saying.
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"@Ignatius M.D. , any chance of getting another opinion on all the things @Lifschitz has brought up?"
I've been roused from my 4th year slumber, I'll try not to be too cranky. Those comments have not really been my experience, though what he/she said has some truth. Our weakest pre-clinical area is in anatomy (strongest is pathology) and some rotations get full. Sometimes you don't get exactly what you want, but this happens at every school in the country essentially, particularly with new schools who are still expanding clinical affiliates. I got >90% of the courses and locations I requested. His/her experience may be what was said, but that is not typical like he/she is making it out to be. Additionally, getting the exact schedule you want for 3rd year is essentially irrelevant. Every school has their rumors about what is the "best" order but that's nonsense, and everyone wants the same few rotation blocks, which cannot happen. I got my 3rd choice and it was perfectly fine. Regarding the former issue, our anatomy is prosection, without high quality, "fresh" cadavers, so we mix up our learning with computer based systems and physical models. We still use the cadavers for tagging muscles, and some 2nd/3rd degree types of anatomy questions, just not for detailed stuff. If you want more you can do more after 1st year. I though that was fine. Being pimped by surgical attendings on esoteric nth branches of X vessels/nerves is old-school and useless, and I did extremely well just by knowing most essential/clinically important surgical anatomy. Spending months dissecting is a waste and will not help your surgical skill. What does help is the fact that we get to close on a ton of surgeries, be first assist, do minor excisions start to finish, etc., which most other schools' surgically inclined students dream of doing. Some students even do more advanced things after proving themselves capable, but if this person was timid they may have had more "shadowing". You have to be assertive. I almost never had more than a few days of a rotation where I was "shadowing", but actually got much more hands-on experience than most of my 20+ friends at other medical schools (especially highly academic ones where you get to do nothing as a medical student).
Class attrition varies by class, of course, but my class had a normal attrition rate and was extremely strong. If their class had a higher rate than any other class I doubt it was because of the curriculum, which the students help design, or because of a sudden change in admin policy (if it didn't affect other classes, why would it be a cause for his/her's?). Lifschitz is not counting at least 4 people we had do research years, 3-4 who left but did not fail out (some people do just leave), and a couple others. They shouldn't speak about what they don't know. A few unmatched students is normal from nearly every school, can happen for a large variety of reasons, and we ended up with 1 person unmatched to my knowledge. My classmates are excellent, our average step 1 was just below 238, we do well on shelf exams, and we had a great match overall. I got the rotations I wanted, had good clinical hands-on experience, went through the normal frustrations of medical school, and matched high on my list in a competitive field and feel very prepared for residency. This is my experience, and this other student has theirs, but take things with a grain of salt.
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"@Ignatius M.D. , any chance of getting another opinion on all the things @Lifschitz has brought up?"
I've been roused from my 4th year slumber, I'll try not to be too cranky. Those comments have not really been my experience, though what he/she said has some truth. Our weakest pre-clinical area is in anatomy (strongest is pathology) and some rotations get full. Sometimes you don't get exactly what you want, but this happens at every school in the country essentially, particularly with new schools who are still expanding clinical affiliates. I got >90% of the courses and locations I requested. His/her experience may be what was said, but that is not typical like he/she is making it out to be. Additionally, getting the exact schedule you want for 3rd year is essentially irrelevant. Every school has their rumors about what is the "best" order but that's nonsense, and everyone wants the same few rotation blocks, which cannot happen. I got my 3rd choice and it was perfectly fine. Regarding the former issue, our anatomy is prosection, without high quality, "fresh" cadavers, so we mix up our learning with computer based systems and physical models. We still use the cadavers for tagging muscles, and some 2nd/3rd degree types of anatomy questions, just not for detailed stuff. If you want more you can do more after 1st year. I though that was fine. Being pimped by surgical attendings on esoteric nth branches of X vessels/nerves is old-school and useless, and I did extremely well just by knowing most essential/clinically important surgical anatomy. Spending months dissecting is a waste and will not help your surgical skill. What does help is the fact that we get to close on a ton of surgeries, be first assist, do minor excisions start to finish, etc., which most other schools' surgically inclined students dream of doing. Some students even do more advanced things after proving themselves capable, but if this person was timid they may have had more "shadowing". You have to be assertive. I almost never had more than a few days of a rotation where I was "shadowing", but actually got much more hands-on experience than most of my 20+ friends at other medical schools (especially highly academic ones where you get to do nothing as a medical student).
Class attrition varies by class, of course, but my class had a normal attrition rate and was extremely strong. If their class had a higher rate than any other class I doubt it was because of the curriculum, which the students help design, or because of a sudden change in admin policy (if it didn't affect other classes, why would it be a cause for his/her's?). Lifschitz is not counting at least 4 people we had do research years, 3-4 who left but did not fail out (some people do just leave), and a couple others. They shouldn't speak about what they don't know. A few unmatched students is normal from nearly every school, can happen for a large variety of reasons, and we ended up with 1 person unmatched to my knowledge. My classmates are excellent, our average step 1 was just below 238, we do well on shelf exams, and we had a great match overall. I got the rotations I wanted, had good clinical hands-on experience, went through the normal frustrations of medical school, and matched high on my list in a competitive field and feel very prepared for residency. This is my experience, and this other student has theirs, but take things with a grain of salt.
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NHELP: FIU’s Flagship Service Project
For decades, Miami-Dade has had one of the highest uninsured rates in the country. When HWCOM was founded, one of our largest charges as a newly-approved state school was to try to serve these patients by virtue of reducing the healthcare disparities in our communities. If the methodology of this program consisted of sending a medical student, a social working student, and a physician into impoverished homes with the ability and freedom to write prescriptions, order labs, or provide whatever social services the household needed, the program could be an overwhelming success. Unfortunately, the logistics are a bit different.
NHELP starts in M2 with a year-long course with mandatory attendance that meets every Wednesday from 1-5pm. Pretty much every lecture is based on the premise that people without insurance or money have poorer health outcomes than wealthy people. This principle is absolutely true, but it does not exactly translate into groundbreaking, cutting-edge lectures. This course also included numerous graded assignments: a quiz testing if you read the syllabus, a number of unannounced quizzes testing long reading assignments, a pharmacology presentation, five online dental modules, monthly contact with your assigned households, three sessions of interprofessional team rounds outside of lecture, medical-legal rounds, four household visits, two reflection assignments, a midterm exam, and a final exam. If this sounds like a lot of work for a P/F nonscience course, I would agree that it is.
So what does the actual household experience entail? Instead of providing for freedom to address the issues that your household has, you’re required to complete very rigid competencies regardless of the age and background of your patients. These include family pedigrees, USPSTF preventative care counselling, oral health assessments, patient-centered behavioral guidance, nutritional assessments, end of life planning, etc. These are mandatory, so if you are assigned a younger patient as some of my colleagues have been, you will have to counsel a 26-year-old on end-of-life planning and fill out an advance directive with her. Or you might have to counsel an 86-year-old who hasn’t had sex since 1970 on the risks of sexually-transmitted infections. (My faculty member made me do this a few months ago). Of course, these visits and competencies have to be completed on very strict timelines which can be hard to fit into a medical student’s schedule (especially in M3 and M4 when you’re in clinic or on away rotations). In addition to spending your time and energy planning and attending these low-yield visits, you also have the challenge of trying to address the household’s actual problems, which can run anywhere from lack of US citizenship to lack of insurance to poorly controlled diabetes to “helping explain what doctors tell me”. And you can’t take too long, because the next year (and the year after that) you have to complete the same mandatory competencies again. Sometimes it works out that the mandatory stuff overlaps with your patient’s actual needs, sometimes it doesn’t.
Perhaps the biggest failure of the program is that, in most cases, our doctors can’t write prescriptions or lab requests or treat diseases, so generally we can’t provide any semblance of meaningful care. There’s only so much a medical student (or even a doctor) can do without any resources. Sure, some of my classmates are rock stars and have worked extraordinarily hard with our lawyers to gain citizenship or filed endless amounts of paperwork to obtain a Jackson Card (for cheap healthcare through UM) for their patients, but for most of us there isn’t much we can offer. A lot of you will experience the dilemma of “Mrs. X needs XYZ, but can’t afford it and doesn’t qualify for any aid” or “Mr. Y really needs to see a doctor to treat his diseases (or get a refill), and the doctor sitting beside me can’t do anything”.
It’s no surprise that most of my classmates are on their second (or third) households; NHELP simply isn’t what either the household or the medical student was expecting.
As you’d expect, scheduling is also a bummer. Most of our households have one or two or three jobs, and we are required to pester them in person every few months where we talk about things that aren’t beneficial for them in any meaningful way. After all, there aren’t many elderly, uninsured grandmothers that are enthused when you make them a pedigree covering hypertension, and there’s not a ton of unemployed mothers that appreciate being told that they should eat more vegetables and less McDonald's. So, we have a lot of cancellations, and the way our grading works- even if your household cancels 4 weeks in a row- if you don’t get your visits done before the deadline, you make a zero (and still have to make up the visit). This happens a lot more than it should.
I’ll end with a personal anecdote: a few years ago my patient ended up hospitalized with inpatient rehab for two months after a very severe fall. I wasn’t allowed to visit her in the hospital to counsel her on her dental health (one of my assigned competencies), so despite completing all of the other course requirements, I had to remediate the course. The remediation assignment involved being transported by boat to an island where we were forced to pick up trash in the hot sun for 6 hours. I’m still not sure how that related to medicine, but- hey- I passed.
TL;DR NHELP takes a ton of time and generally doesn’t achieve meaningful results. It sounds amazing, but it’s really terrible.
For decades, Miami-Dade has had one of the highest uninsured rates in the country. When HWCOM was founded, one of our largest charges as a newly-approved state school was to try to serve these patients by virtue of reducing the healthcare disparities in our communities. If the methodology of this program consisted of sending a medical student, a social working student, and a physician into impoverished homes with the ability and freedom to write prescriptions, order labs, or provide whatever social services the household needed, the program could be an overwhelming success. Unfortunately, the logistics are a bit different.
NHELP starts in M2 with a year-long course with mandatory attendance that meets every Wednesday from 1-5pm. Pretty much every lecture is based on the premise that people without insurance or money have poorer health outcomes than wealthy people. This principle is absolutely true, but it does not exactly translate into groundbreaking, cutting-edge lectures. This course also included numerous graded assignments: a quiz testing if you read the syllabus, a number of unannounced quizzes testing long reading assignments, a pharmacology presentation, five online dental modules, monthly contact with your assigned households, three sessions of interprofessional team rounds outside of lecture, medical-legal rounds, four household visits, two reflection assignments, a midterm exam, and a final exam. If this sounds like a lot of work for a P/F nonscience course, I would agree that it is.
So what does the actual household experience entail? Instead of providing for freedom to address the issues that your household has, you’re required to complete very rigid competencies regardless of the age and background of your patients. These include family pedigrees, USPSTF preventative care counselling, oral health assessments, patient-centered behavioral guidance, nutritional assessments, end of life planning, etc. These are mandatory, so if you are assigned a younger patient as some of my colleagues have been, you will have to counsel a 26-year-old on end-of-life planning and fill out an advance directive with her. Or you might have to counsel an 86-year-old who hasn’t had sex since 1970 on the risks of sexually-transmitted infections. (My faculty member made me do this a few months ago). Of course, these visits and competencies have to be completed on very strict timelines which can be hard to fit into a medical student’s schedule (especially in M3 and M4 when you’re in clinic or on away rotations). In addition to spending your time and energy planning and attending these low-yield visits, you also have the challenge of trying to address the household’s actual problems, which can run anywhere from lack of US citizenship to lack of insurance to poorly controlled diabetes to “helping explain what doctors tell me”. And you can’t take too long, because the next year (and the year after that) you have to complete the same mandatory competencies again. Sometimes it works out that the mandatory stuff overlaps with your patient’s actual needs, sometimes it doesn’t.
Perhaps the biggest failure of the program is that, in most cases, our doctors can’t write prescriptions or lab requests or treat diseases, so generally we can’t provide any semblance of meaningful care. There’s only so much a medical student (or even a doctor) can do without any resources. Sure, some of my classmates are rock stars and have worked extraordinarily hard with our lawyers to gain citizenship or filed endless amounts of paperwork to obtain a Jackson Card (for cheap healthcare through UM) for their patients, but for most of us there isn’t much we can offer. A lot of you will experience the dilemma of “Mrs. X needs XYZ, but can’t afford it and doesn’t qualify for any aid” or “Mr. Y really needs to see a doctor to treat his diseases (or get a refill), and the doctor sitting beside me can’t do anything”.
It’s no surprise that most of my classmates are on their second (or third) households; NHELP simply isn’t what either the household or the medical student was expecting.
As you’d expect, scheduling is also a bummer. Most of our households have one or two or three jobs, and we are required to pester them in person every few months where we talk about things that aren’t beneficial for them in any meaningful way. After all, there aren’t many elderly, uninsured grandmothers that are enthused when you make them a pedigree covering hypertension, and there’s not a ton of unemployed mothers that appreciate being told that they should eat more vegetables and less McDonald's. So, we have a lot of cancellations, and the way our grading works- even if your household cancels 4 weeks in a row- if you don’t get your visits done before the deadline, you make a zero (and still have to make up the visit). This happens a lot more than it should.
I’ll end with a personal anecdote: a few years ago my patient ended up hospitalized with inpatient rehab for two months after a very severe fall. I wasn’t allowed to visit her in the hospital to counsel her on her dental health (one of my assigned competencies), so despite completing all of the other course requirements, I had to remediate the course. The remediation assignment involved being transported by boat to an island where we were forced to pick up trash in the hot sun for 6 hours. I’m still not sure how that related to medicine, but- hey- I passed.
TL;DR NHELP takes a ton of time and generally doesn’t achieve meaningful results. It sounds amazing, but it’s really terrible.
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While I agree the class could use some rework, please refrain from saying blatant lies about the program. I have personally seen multiple attendings write prescriptions on the HH visit. As long as the patients are registered with the mobile clinic, they are able to do something medical for them right inside their house. As for your dental compentency, you and I both know you most likely had ample time to do it months before your HH was hospitalized and you just didn't want to make a visit. Not saying I blame you, but let's not fault that on the program. Most of the NHELP faculty are very understanding and I'm sure if you gave them proper notice on you situation they would have provided you with an alternative HH visit or an alternate assignment to perform (as they have with me on several occasions).
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Not every as household in our neighborhoods is eligible for or a member of the mobile clinic; I would say that the majority are not members. As I understand it, any form of insurance (including medicare) precludes households from becoming a member. And, back in my day we didn't have these fancy "alternative" visits where you shadow another student (while not being allowed to participate in the discussion or complete competencies). If you didn't get your competencies done, you picked up garbage or made sandwiches. While I'm glad that you haven't been personally affected by a busy, sick, or flaky household, keep in mind that if you spread your visits out evenly you have to visit around every three months to do a competency. All it takes is for one thing to happen in your family's lives during that period to make that block unavailable to you. If you as a busy medical student are saying "Hey, I can do this competency anytime over the next three months", and your patient (or outreach coordinator or faculty) can't make it happen, then in my mind, it's not your fault. Keep your head up, though, you've still got at least a year for the cancellation bug to hit 'ya.
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- Reaction score
- 33
When you were an M2 there were several students that performed their competencies with SPs. So again, they did have them and you just didn't realize that or waited until the last minute to address your situation. I get that some people get screwed with their family situation. I think everyone has probably had a no show or two and it's annoying I agree. However, as long as you document it and make an effort they will try to accommodate you.
