2018-2019 Waitlist Support Thread

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LongLiveThanos said:
Most school have their classes filled by now. It's difficult to communicate this because there may be some students who withdraw and opens up 1-2 spots.
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Schools that have had no WL movement have more than the number needed to fill.
Once WL movement begins, it usually continues (at variably predictable rates) until orientation.

No one knows how this unique cycle is likely to pan out, but the fact that half of our candidates are still PTE means that (at least) they believe that they are likely to get off a waitlist somewhere!
 
pokemon9264 said:
Last week, UCD seems to have a lot of movement. I also noticed WL movement being slow this year compared to previous threads.
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Wondering if UCD had their big surge in WL movement and now it's essentially over for them.
 
hno1 said:
Wondering if UCD had their big surge in WL movement and now it's essentially over for them.
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It's never over until school starts. This year, it may not be over, even then!
 
gyngyn said:
It's never over until school starts. This year, it may not be over, even then!
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/finishes primary, secondaries, flies out to WL school for interview for 2019-2020 cycle, receive WL acceptance on morning of interview for 2018-2019 class, sit in hotel confused, do I goto interview?, cancel ticket, re-book ticket because I realize I have to go home to get my stuff, screw it, cancel ticket because class already started, max out credit card booking hotels and buying laptop while searching for apartments, wtf just happened.
 
Konkurro said:
Sounds like this may be the year med schools start poaching...
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We have always poached. This is the first year that we are not required to give the school from which we are poaching (after June1st) a notification. This gave them the chance to offer inducements ($) to keep the student.
This is the year that poaching after school has started is a thing.
 
gyngyn said:
We have always poached. This is the first year that we are not required to give the school from which we are poaching (after June1st) a notification. This gave them the chance to offer inducements ($) to keep the student.
This is the year that poaching after school has started is a thing.
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Born too late to explore earth
Born too early to explore space

Born just in time to apply to med school at the worst time in human history
 
LabileEmotions said:
All the schools know that they have put hundreds on the WLs, and they know only a very small percentage get off. They don't have all the information that they have had it in the past, but they are not flying blind. They have enough to proceed rationally.
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Do we?
 
My fellow waitlisted applicants, I'm sure this cycle has showed how hard it is to get in med school. To lighten the mood, I want to share a brief anecdote. At my undergrad prehealth advising q and a, one of the panel members told us how at lunch at his interview, the school served pizza. He was so disgusted by this, fearing he would spoil his suit, that he withdrew from the school right after the interview. Never have I wanted backhand someone so bad in my life.
 
LabileEmotions said:
Yes, I think you do. Most have pretty reliable predictive models around yield. And you know the likely percentage of folks taken from WLs is pretty small among the top ranked schools. You have historic data on that.

So, far example, if you are Hopkins, and say you are trying to fill a class of 120, you know how many to accept to come close to your historic yield, typically a little over 240.

Now, they will have, say , 70 students who have committed to them (CTE'd) and 110 who have told them they are going elsewhere. They have 60 who have PTE'd. Because they know the percentage of folks who come off WLs at schools like Hopkins is low, say it is 15%, they can expect to lose about 10 students who have PTE'd.

So they are working with a class likely to be in range of their target. If they have a bit larger PTE drop off, they back fill from the WL.

Seems as if that has been happening. Drip, drip, drip.
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Lmao you realize gyngyn is an adcom right? I'm pretty sure they would know the inner workings of their admissions frenzy rn
 
MaelTheSun said:
My fellow waitlisted applicants, I'm sure this cycle has showed how hard it is to get in med school. To lighten the mood, I want to share a brief anecdote. At my undergrad prehealth advising q and a, one of the panel members told us how at lunch at his interview, the school served pizza. He was so disgusted by this, fearing he would spoil his suit, that he withdrew from the school right after the interview. Never have I wanted backhand someone so bad in my life.
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The underlying theme is that there are people out there that do have large egos or sense of entitlement. So, it wouldn't shock me that there is portion of the pool holding multiple acceptances even now.
 
Medmomtoo said:
Is there something significant happening for CA schools tomorrow?

Any news about UC Irvine and if their waitlist has had any movement or expecting movement?
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I think there’s just some meeting between California adcoms tomorrow?
 
SecretWombat said:
Sorry, I really respect gyngyn. Don’t know him, but he sounds like a great guy.

But he’s just been giving us his “theory” and many of us, including myself, have been using it as an excuse to hold onto hope that we will get off the waitlist.

Some adcoms have said “we don’t know what’s gonna happen this year... it’s a crap show.” But honestly, the most likely thing that’s gonna happen is that PTEs will change to CTEs and things will work out the way they’ve worked out for many many years.

Adcoms are most likely just expressing their frustration that the processing rules have changed. This frustration is being interpreted by many of us that there's gonna be a **** storm in June/ July and there will be massive waitlist movement. It ain't gonna happen.
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Thanks for your insight. Let's be careful in assuming that admission officers are male.
 
BirdMD123 said:
I think we all do it. I just think it’s important to point it out so we can become more aware of our biases.
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True . I didn’t d have biases though . It is just when you are on the forum for a long time , you create an image in your head of what everyone looks like and who they are . Your brain can’t even help it . It just does that .
 
LabileEmotions said:
Thanks for this.

Do you know if this in line with waitlist movement at Mayo in prior years? I suspect it is as Rochester is a tougher sell than most places, given the schools with which they compete? Obviously, no useful data on Arizona.

Also a relevant number is the percentage of those who get off the WL at Mayo? Aren't they carrying a WL of about 300? If so, we are looking at around 5%, twice the number of overall admit. Better but tough odds.
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30% of Mayo’s class comes from the waitlist according to school specific threads iirc so ~15 for one campus seems in line with previous years
 
Last edited:
I was wondering if I could get some advice on if anyone thinks this is appropriate?

My PTE school is in the same city as my top choice. While I'm super grateful to have an acceptance, I'm trying to everything to get off the waitlist at my top school. I've sent LOI and updates and all that.

I was wondering if it would be okay to tell my top choice that I plan on moving to the city regardless since I have an acceptance at another program near by. Reason being is that I have seen that some schools said they were favoring local students for late cycle acceptances.
 
runthejools said:
I was wondering if I could get some advice on if anyone thinks this is appropriate?

My PTE school is in the same city as my top choice. While I'm super grateful to have an acceptance, I'm trying to everything to get off the waitlist at my top school. I've sent LOI and updates and all that.

I was wondering if it would be okay to tell my top choice that I plan on moving to the city regardless since I have an acceptance at another program near by. Reason being is that I have seen that some schools said they were favoring local students for late cycle acceptances.
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Find an articulate way to do it, but do it in July. This is something that will likely come into play with only very late withdrawals near orientation. You have nothing to lose at that point so I say go for it.
 
Is it possible that movement is slow right now because the cte deadline has not yet passed and schools are not sure who will enroll?
 
LabileEmotions said:
I want to attempt to shed light on what I think is a reigning confusion on this and other threads specific to Plan to Enroll (PTE) and Commit to Enroll (CTE). The confusion centers around whether these are non-enforceable guidelines and/or are they mandates, and if the latter who enforces the mandate.

The answer, in short, is they are both. Let me explain.

Some schools, like UC Irvine, PTE and CTE are SUGGESTIONS, with no penalty for non-compliance. So, in theory, you could carry multiple acceptances and WLs right up through the CTE. In UCI's case, you can carry them through orientation. It seems strange but I think it is true.

Other schools, likely all of the top 20, perhaps more, and certainly some of the other UC schools like UC Davis and UCSF, PTE and CTE are MANDATES. For PTE, you must withdraw all other acceptances. This is not a guideline, it is not a "should", it is not an "ought". It is a "must". Obviously, you can carry WLs. With CTE, all WLs must be withdrawn. Non-compliance can result in a rescinded acceptance. This approaches, in my mind, a kind of contract. I believe it's enforceable by the school. Let leave aside, for the moment , whether the schools have the information to enforce it, but they certainly have the right to.

Much of what I have described above is available to accepted students on the AMCAS school-specific pull down tabs, if you have an acceptance at that school. There are posted screen shots in various SDN school specific threads.

If what I have outlined is true, there are almost no students who have PTE'd at mandated schools carrying multiple acceptance, and none who have CTE'd on any WLs.

A different story for schools that treat these options as suggestions. People can legitimately carry multiple acceptances and WLs after PTEing and multiple WLs and perhaps multiple acceptances after CTEing.

I believe each school has a strategic reason for choosing their path, even if one path comes with more uncertainty.
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It is enforceable at all schools. It is just a matter of whether they choose to enforce it. And I know there are top 20 schools not enforcing it for at least some students.
 
LabileEmotions said:
How it is enforceable at schools like UCI where it is only a suggestion? And please describe the T20 instances where they let people slide? Why would they do that?
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When they really want an applicant, but said applicant isn't quite ready to make a decision--boom, extension. I know folks who have that going on right now at top schools.

And what I meant by it being enforceable is that every school could enforce it if they wanted to, but some are choosing to leave it as a suggestion.
 
LabileEmotions said:
It seems a little squirrely to privilege one candidate or more over others on this issue, and it potential opens up liability issues.

So if I understand what you are saying, there are T20 schools who mandate that everyone follow the rules, no multiple acceptances after PTE, and no WL after CTE, and yet they allow it for some?
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Yeah I'm not sure if I believe that... and also, if you have friends who have PTEd at T20s and are still holding multiple acceptances, you should call them out. That’s scummy behavior at this point in the cycle and causes negative effects for all applicants who haven’t committed yet.
 
I think there’s an important timing piece missing here. AAMC does mandate that schools must provide accepted students at least 5 business days to decide if greater than 30 days from CTE deadline (at least 2 business days if less than 30 days from CTE).

This therefore means that a school could enforce a PTE deadline of, say, two weeks.

What that means is that when someone like gyngyn posts that there are 5% holding multiple acceptances today, there could be 2% tomorrow and 6% the day after. It will effectively hover above o% until class starts. It does not necessarily say anything about students not complying.

For example, School 1 accepted student in February, and the student PTEs there on 4/30 with multiple waitlist spots. School 1 states that the student must CTE by July 15 (21 days before the hypothetical orientation date of 8/5).

School 2 accepts student on 5/29, stating we require a decision within 10 business days. Then the student will be PTEd and hold two acceptances until 6/12.

As long as the student is following the rules those two schools that strongly enforce those dates, then the student is in compliance while holding two acceptances.
 
StanleyYelnats said:
Yeah I'm not sure if I believe that... and also, if you have friends who have PTEd at T20s and are still holding multiple acceptances, you should call them out. That’s scummy behavior at this point in the cycle and causes negative effects for all applicants who haven’t committed yet.
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There are extenuating circumstances. They aren’t just holding them to hold them. Maybe practice giving people the benefit of the doubt instead of automatically assuming the worst in people.
 
LabileEmotions said:
It seems a little squirrely to privilege one candidate or more over others on this issue, and it potential opens up liability issues. If not legallly liable, they risk putting their reputation at risk. Same reputational risk for the candiate, it would seem to me.

So if I understand what you are saying, there are T20 schools who mandate that everyone follow the rules, no multiple acceptances after PTE, and no WL after CTE, and yet they allow it for some?
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There’s no liability. It is the school’s own policy and they can grant exceptions to whomever they please. They simply called and explained their situation, and exceptions were made. This isn’t a court of law.
 
LabileEmotions said:
It seems a little squirrely to privilege one candidate or more over others on this issue, and it potential opens up liability issues. If not legallly liable, they risk putting their reputation at risk. Same reputational risk for the candiate, it would seem to me.

So if I understand what you are saying, there are T20 schools who mandate that everyone follow the rules, no multiple acceptances after PTE, and no WL after CTE, and yet they allow it for some?
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Additionally, there is no risk to the reputation of anyone. The school is not going to be hurt by granting exceptions to certain individuals with compelling reasons, and no one will ever know that the candidate had an exception.
 
So, hypothetically, if I move forward with a plan B in the middle of July then an acceptance is received close to or after the first day of classes, does it look bad to reject an acceptance? Basically, I am on two waitlists at state schools with no A's and have begun to reapply. The waitlist for my first choice is barely moving which in turn makes the second choice movement almost non-existent since it is a lot of the same applicants as the first school. My plan B requires a move to another country, so it would be tough to pull the plug on it once I have plane tickets and housing worked out. Any advice on how to move forward without wasting a ton of time and money?
 
What is strict enforcement when they cannot pinpoint which applicants are violating these varying policies, whether they are within the suggested timelines or not?
 
1nside said:
What is strict enforcement when they cannot pinpoint which applicants are violating these varying policies, whether they are within the suggested timelines or not?
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I believe this is the exact issue that @gyngyn has been talking about when explaining why adcoms do not, in fact, have as good of an idea of what to expect for waitlist movement this year as we applicants think they do.
 
StanleyYelnats said:
You know multiple people with extenuating circumstances at T20s that justify having more than 1 acceptance after April 30? Ok.
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I was in a cohort of two dozen active duty military applicants. So yes.
 
LabileEmotions said:
But, Matt, to be fair, these are very rare circumstances. In fact, they are the exceptions that prove the rule. Of the 3000 or so people accepted to T20 schools, how many do you really think have extenuating circumstances?

I was not implying, nor did I state, that the rules are ironclad. Of, course, there are these circumstances you describe, but I think it applies to less than 2% of acceptees.
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All I said is that there are people with exceptions. I didn't say it was widespread or common. But clearly if you have a good reason, they will make an exception for you.
 
LabileEmotions said:
That is cool, and perfectly understandable and justifiable.
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Yeah, just emailing them and saying you have multiple acceptances and want to hold onto them for a while probably isn't going to cut it if they are actively enforcing their CTE deadlines.
 
Meridian17 said:
Oh man, at our all scribe meeting recently everyone was saying "I'm going to med school next year" (out of 7 or so of us, only one other didn't say that, and I don't even know if she wants to) and here I am, like, not doing that.
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Don't worry man, you're not alone. I was the only one in our scribe team with an acceptance and most of us have taken multiple gap years. It's a tough road but will be very worth it when you get that email/phone call rewarding all of your efforts 🙂
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I was in a cohort of two dozen active duty military applicants. So yes.
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As people on this site like to say, getting into medical school is a privilege, not a right. If you participate in AMCAS, you are agreeing to abide by the rules of the application process. The April 30 rule exists out of respect for both school adcoms and waitlisted applicants- you’re screwing both of these people over by holding multiple acceptances past April 30. That deadline was also a full month ago.

If the people you’re referring to have multiple As due to getting off some waitlists, then I understand, as they may be waiting on financial aid, housing, and other practical things. If they just never dropped their As save 1 by the PTE deadline, then they’re not abiding by the rules of the process. Many people applying this cycle have had to deal with difficult circumstances, but we can’t expect the world to bend the rules for us just because of that. Especially considering these rules are apparently not being bent for other applicants.

Regardless, good on your friends/colleagues for having those choices, and best of luck to them on their decision. I still disagree with those actions.
 
StanleyYelnats said:
As people on this site like to say, getting into medical school is a privilege, not a right. If you participate in AMCAS, you are agreeing to abide by the rules of the application process. The April 30 rule exists out of respect for both school adcoms and waitlisted applicants- you’re screwing both of these people over by holding multiple acceptances past April 30. That deadline was also a full month ago.

If the people you’re referring to have multiple As due to getting off some waitlists, then I understand, as they may be waiting on financial aid, housing, and other practical things. If they just never dropped their As save 1 by the PTE deadline, then they’re not abiding by the rules of the process. Many people applying this cycle have had to deal with difficult circumstances, but we can’t expect the world to bend the rules for us just because of that. Especially considering these rules are apparently not being bent for other applicants.

Regardless, good on your friends/colleagues for having those choices. I still disagree with those actions.
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Ah, I see what's happening. You're still operating under the false impression that the April 30 guideline is a rule. It is not. It may have been in the past, but the AAMC abdicated its responsibility to enforce anything, and the April 30 date became a suggestion this year. There is nothing that actually says you HAVE to be down to one acceptance by April 30, it says applicants SHOULD in order to look out for other applicants. So by holding onto more than one acceptance past April 30, no one is breaking any rules unless they are holding an acceptance to a school with a CTE deadline of April 30, and I think there are probably very few schools with a deadline that early.

And as pointed out, the number of people holding onto acceptances past the CTE date is probably quite small. And in the case of the folks I know who are doing it, not holding onto those acceptances may mean they might have to choose between not going to medical school despite having multiple acceptances or either having to be thousands of miles from their spouses or having to hope one of the two paths we are allowed to take gets approved, which is not guaranteed at all.

Maybe try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Imagine if you have two acceptances, and giving up one meant you were effectively ensuring that either you'd be thousands of miles from your kids and spouse for 4 years or that you'd be taking the chance that your financials would get approved, and if they didn't then you'd have to defer a year at best, or reapply at worst. I'm sure you'd be thrilled to have the opportunity to extend past your deadline.
 
MaelTheSun said:
My fellow waitlisted applicants, I'm sure this cycle has showed how hard it is to get in med school. To lighten the mood, I want to share a brief anecdote. At my undergrad prehealth advising q and a, one of the panel members told us how at lunch at his interview, the school served pizza. He was so disgusted by this, fearing he would spoil his suit, that he withdrew from the school right after the interview. Never have I wanted backhand someone so bad in my life.
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I definitely was at this same q and a hahaha
 
LabileEmotions said:
It is a very good question as to why schools wait so long to release people from the WL. And I agree wholeheartedly with your point on its implications.

It is kind of like getting ghosted in the normal application process. I think there are still a handful of schools that I have heard nothing from since submitting my application. My SO thinks it's outrageous. Since we've paid our app fee, they should complete the process. Instead, we kind of just fade way, becoming non-persons. Cold.
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Without giving too much away about myself, I remember getting rejection emails for summer internships after summer had ended. Big institutions don't care about you no matter how much they say they do.
 
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