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probablyhungry99 said:
How do you feel about p/f with quartile rankings?

Thanks! 🙂
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I will be very honest here-I'm not a fan of it, and it's fostered a LOT of competition in our class. For reference, I'm in the second quartile, which is more than enough for the field I'm going into, and I have many interviews for residency, so I'm not posting this out of bitterness...but rather, honesty, and wishing that someone had told me this as I chose my medical school...

Pass/Fail on its own is great. It lets you learn the material, for the sake of learning it, and being a better doctor, removing the stress of competition. But the quartile system undoes all that. I must say that the students at UC are, as it is, very bright-the cream of the crop gets admitted here-so now imagine, competing within an already-genius subset of people, to rise to the top. Residency programs, especially in competitive fields, do take into account your class ranking if your school ranks. I know people who studied extremely hard, day in and day out, and efficiently too...mastered the material enough to do crazy well on USMLE Step 1 and Step 2-but, due to the intense competition at UC, were in the lower quartiles, which put them at a disadvantage for residency. There are some people here who don't need to study much-just a little bit-and still get awesome grades-and they're the ones who can master the volumes of material and be in the top quartile. Anyone else is destined to the bottom three quartiles, and even being in the 2nd quartile was extremely difficult.
There is extreme competition and backbiting among students sometimes. We would have exams in designated rooms each week, and before the exams, it was very routine for students to congregate outside the exam room bragging about their class ranking or how they did better than average-and those who didn't, remained quiet. After exams, all the talk was about how "I hope I got these answers right, so I can be above the average". Once scores were out, all the talk was about "ahhh, I am above the average, i'm in the first quartile!" In my experience, people would go around, asking others their scores, bragging about their own scores. It seemed that people did not try to do well, primarily to learn the material for Step 1/2-rather, the goal was to beat others and be in the top 1-2 quartiles.
Many schools don't employ the ranking system especially not in M1-2. Ours does-and considering that everyone here is already so smart-it puts a lot of really well qualified people at a major disadvantage. Also keep in mind a good number of people come here having done a postbacc etc, having studied graduate-level biochemistry, molecular biology, anatomy (a lot of the M1 material)-so yes, it comes easier to them, they will be higher ranked...keep this in mind if you are applying straight out of college like I did...I'm fortunate to have made it to the 2nd quartile but I know many people who didn't and they felt pretty beat up about it, not to mention that now when they are applying to residency, they have a "3rd quartile" or "4th quartile" ranking on their MSPE which can be a disadvantage
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starbucks1992 said:
I will be very honest here-I'm not a fan of it, and it's fostered a LOT of competition in our class. For reference, I'm in the second quartile, which is more than enough for the field I'm going into, and I have many interviews for residency, so I'm not posting this out of bitterness...but rather, honesty, and wishing that someone had told me this as I chose my medical school...

Pass/Fail on its own is great. It lets you learn the material, for the sake of learning it, and being a better doctor, removing the stress of competition. But the quartile system undoes all that. I must say that the students at UC are, as it is, very bright-the cream of the crop gets admitted here-so now imagine, competing within an already-genius subset of people, to rise to the top. Residency programs, especially in competitive fields, do take into account your class ranking if your school ranks. I know people who studied extremely hard, day in and day out, and efficiently too...mastered the material enough to do crazy well on USMLE Step 1 and Step 2-but, due to the intense competition at UC, were in the lower quartiles, which put them at a disadvantage for residency. There are some people here who don't need to study much-just a little bit-and still get awesome grades-and they're the ones who can master the volumes of material and be in the top quartile. Anyone else is destined to the bottom three quartiles, and even being in the 2nd quartile was extremely difficult.
There is extreme competition and backbiting among students sometimes. We would have exams in designated rooms each week, and before the exams, it was very routine for students to congregate outside the exam room bragging about their class ranking or how they did better than average-and those who didn't, remained quiet. After exams, all the talk was about how "I hope I got these answers right, so I can be above the average". Once scores were out, all the talk was about "ahhh, I am above the average, i'm in the first quartile!" In my experience, people would go around, asking others their scores, bragging about their own scores. It seemed that people did not try to do well, primarily to learn the material for Step 1/2-rather, the goal was to beat others and be in the top 1-2 quartiles.
Many schools don't employ the ranking system especially not in M1-2. Ours does-and considering that everyone here is already so smart-it puts a lot of really well qualified people at a major disadvantage. Also keep in mind a good number of people come here having done a postbacc etc, having studied graduate-level biochemistry, molecular biology, anatomy (a lot of the M1 material)-so yes, it comes easier to them, they will be higher ranked...keep this in mind if you are applying straight out of college like I did...I'm fortunate to have made it to the 2nd quartile but I know many people who didn't and they felt pretty beat up about it, not to mention that now when they are applying to residency, they have a "3rd quartile" or "4th quartile" ranking on their MSPE which can be a disadvantage
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Just dropped a nuke on this school lol
 
porterjustice said:
Just dropped a nuke on this school lol
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Haha. I didn't mean to scare anyone. But, I felt it's my duty to be honest. I see no point in sugar-coating anything.
The school does have some positives/neutrals, which I'll mention here:
-Research is a hit or miss depending on which field you are looking into. Some fields/departments here are not that great at offering research projects-they do them, but are more focused on the clinical aspect, so as a medical student it would be difficult to get involved in meaningful research. Many people I know had PI's who allowed them to work in their lab etc but then did not support them at all in publishing and the project fell apart. BUT, I also know people in other fields, who had great success with research. So like I said, it's hit or miss. Some of my friends had so much trouble finding research opportunities here (and were applying to fields that NEEDED research)...that they had to seek research opportunities at other medical schools
-Some departments here are pretty well known, regionally and nationally. Take this with a grain of salt though. Many of the well known doctors, will not be directly working with you as the medical student. On rotations, the fellows will be the ones working with them-at most, you shadow the fellows and appear interested-but that's not great for getting a recc letter etc. These well known doctors aren't always the most interested in doing research w/ med students. But sometimes you may get lucky.
-Very high average step scores. Higher than the national average
-The weather in Cincinnati is good for the Midwest-rarely ever snows
-If you are going into Pediatrics, say no more-Cincinnati Children's is amazing-and the educational system here, is awesome. Everyone is so happy to teach. Everyone there is very supportive. You will have a good Pediatrics rotation because of Cincinnati Children's and if you want to get involved in Peds research, there is indeed plenty right there
 
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probablyhungry99 said:
Since step 1 will be pass/fail by the time anyone applying this cycle is taking it, should this still be taken into account when choosing a med school?
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Oh, that is a good point. In that case, I'm guessing that even MORE of an emphasis will be placed on your pre-clinical quartiles, clinical grades (M3 mostly), and Step 2 CK.
-Step 2 CK is pretty much based on you and how well you self-study the clinical material. You don't sit in a classroom and learn it like Step 1 material
-Pre-clinical quartiles: see my discussion above
-Clinical grades: In M3 it is Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail. UC has made it so a very small percentage in each rotation can Honor. For example, in one rotation cohort, 2 out of 30 honored. Around 50% get a Pass in IM and Surgery...maybe slightly less in other rotations, with more High Passes. But yes, the number of honors are very limited. The faculty who grade you get this evaluation to fill out, with rather nuanced wording-they don't realize that rating you as a, say, "Great" instead of "Excellent" results in a High Pass instead of Honors. Many other schools I know of are more liberal giving out Honors-so...keep this in mind.
 
starbucks1992 said:
Oh, that is a good point. In that case, I'm guessing that even MORE of an emphasis will be placed on your pre-clinical quartiles, clinical grades (M3 mostly), and Step 2 CK.
-Step 2 CK is pretty much based on you and how well you self-study the clinical material. You don't sit in a classroom and learn it like Step 1 material
-Pre-clinical quartiles: see my discussion above
-Clinical grades: In M3 it is Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail. UC has made it so a very small percentage in each rotation can Honor. For example, in one rotation cohort, 2 out of 30 honored. Around 50% get a Pass in IM and Surgery...maybe slightly less in other rotations, with more High Passes. But yes, the number of honors are very limited. The faculty who grade you get this evaluation to fill out, with rather nuanced wording-they don't realize that rating you as a, say, "Great" instead of "Excellent" results in a High Pass instead of Honors. Many other schools I know of are more liberal giving out Honors-so...keep this in mind.
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Wow, I was hoping to maybe go to Cincy someday. Not so sure now. It certainly doesn't sound like a collaborative / nurturing environment. Thanks for the open and honest view. I wish others were as candid about their school's shortcomings.
 
Putkernerinthehall said:
Wow, I was hoping to maybe go to Cincy someday. Not so sure now. It certainly doesn't sound like a collaborative / nurturing environment. Thanks for the open and honest view. I wish others were as candid about their school's shortcomings.
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+1
 
Putkernerinthehall said:
Wow, I was hoping to maybe go to Cincy someday. Not so sure now. It certainly doesn't sound like a collaborative / nurturing environment. Thanks for the open and honest view. I wish others were as candid about their school's shortcomings.
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+1 this was definitely one of my top choices (no II yet) as I currently live in Cincy and it would be ideal to stay. However, I’m even more glad to have an A where I do now because the environment there is much more collaborative and what I am looking for compared to UC. I’m considering not even sending the update I was going to send now lol
 
Putkernerinthehall said:
Wow, I was hoping to maybe go to Cincy someday. Not so sure now. It certainly doesn't sound like a collaborative / nurturing environment. Thanks for the open and honest view. I wish others were as candid about their school's shortcomings.
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I'm sorry if I let down your hopes...I just felt HORRIBLY guilty not being realistic. When I was choosing medical schools, they put me in contact with some current students here-who basically bragged about how they never had to study past 4 PM on a given day, and had every single evening off. That was never true, not in my experience, nor anyone whom I actually knew. So I felt bad saying anything but the truth to you. I'll be honest in that we have awesome weather and the town has a nice midwestern vibe but...also gotta be honest about the cons
 
DesignatedSurvivor said:
+1 this was definitely one of my top choices (no II yet) as I currently live in Cincy and it would be ideal to stay. However, I’m even more glad to have an A where I do now because the environment there is much more collaborative and what I am looking for compared to UC. I’m considering not even sending the update I was going to send now lol
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I agree that it's a wonderful midwestern town to live in. Awesome riverwalk, food scene, etc.
The med school itself...well known due to research rankings, but like I said, only a few students get tons of pubs in-most of us have experiences where researchers don't want to dedicate much time to us because they're so busy publishing their own research. The exception to this is Cincinnati Children's, if you are doing Peds, by all means come to UC because the researchers at Children's, from what I hear, truly are top notch mentors and the clinical experience is great too.
Anything else...carefully evaluate your options. If the other school you have an acceptance to is not known, does not have a major affiliated hospital etc-perhaps UC is better. But if it is a well known place w/ affiliated large hospital, just lower ranked than UC...maybe choose the other place. I will agree that the environment here isn't that collaborative-the conversation around exams was ALWAYS "I beat this person and that person, I am above average, I am in the top quartile, I hope the average is lower so I can be in the top quartile..."
We had Monday exams, so student gatherings/parties were on Monday nights. Sure enough, at those Monday night gatherings-some of which were at bars-people would be saying things like this...
 
I'll have to come at this from a different direction to @starbuck1992. They must be an M2 or above (sounds like an M3 or above). I'm an M1, so I guess I'm closer to where you all will be soon. We're currently P/F entirely, so no one in my class has any rankings, quartiles or otherwise. I couldn't even guess who is doing well/average/poorly. It's going to last all of our M1 year, and I know a lot of people are pushing to make it a permanent thing, at least through the first 2 years. I have no idea if that will happen or not, of course, but it looks like it will continue as long as covid is here.

My classmates aren't competitive that I've ever seen. I mean, everyone tries to do their best, but we share notes, files, tips, etc. We have a class groupme where we talk and share different things (stupid covid means we don't have Monday night get-togethers), so anyone/everyone gets those tips and files. People offer to help practice what we can do in person (clinical skills, emergency first responder), even if they're solid on the material. The school also offers tutoring, and most of us take them up on the offer. The tutors are also super-friendly, sharing whatever tips/tricks/files they have. I've found two tutors I really like and never miss their sessions.

I'm not going to comment on research or the clinical years (M3/M4) since I haven't gotten there yet.

@starbucks1992 seems to have had a bad time of it, and I'm sorry to hear that. But I guess it goes to show that different people can experience the same thing and get something entirely different from it. @starbucks1992, I'm guessing you're in clinicals now, or maybe even applying to residencies. If so, good luck!!
 
Just remember that you don't know me or anyone on this forum, and you don't know how our opinions compare to yours. Go with your gut. If you like a place, go there. If it doesn't feel right, don't.
 
cbenet said:
I'll have to come at this from a different direction to @starbuck1992. They must be an M2 or above (sounds like an M3 or above). I'm an M1, so I guess I'm closer to where you all will be soon. We're currently P/F entirely, so no one in my class has any rankings, quartiles or otherwise. I couldn't even guess who is doing well/average/poorly. It's going to last all of our M1 year, and I know a lot of people are pushing to make it a permanent thing, at least through the first 2 years. I have no idea if that will happen or not, of course, but it looks like it will continue as long as covid is here.

My classmates aren't competitive that I've ever seen. I mean, everyone tries to do their best, but we share notes, files, tips, etc. We have a class groupme where we talk and share different things (stupid covid means we don't have Monday night get-togethers), so anyone/everyone gets those tips and files. People offer to help practice what we can do in person (clinical skills, emergency first responder), even if they're solid on the material. The school also offers tutoring, and most of us take them up on the offer. The tutors are also super-friendly, sharing whatever tips/tricks/files they have. I've found two tutors I really like and never miss their sessions.

I'm not going to comment on research or the clinical years (M3/M4) since I haven't gotten there yet.

@starbucks1992 seems to have had a bad time of it, and I'm sorry to hear that. But I guess it goes to show that different people can experience the same thing and get something entirely different from it. @starbucks1992, I'm guessing you're in clinicals now, or maybe even applying to residencies. If so, good luck!!
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It seems like you’re saying you guys are P/F only because of COVID? Is that correct? If so then there would currently be no reason for people to not collaborate. But if it goes back to quartiles after COVID is under control, then the environment @starbuck1992 is referencing might return?
 
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cbenet said:
I'll have to come at this from a different direction to @starbuck1992. They must be an M2 or above (sounds like an M3 or above). I'm an M1, so I guess I'm closer to where you all will be soon. We're currently P/F entirely, so no one in my class has any rankings, quartiles or otherwise. I couldn't even guess who is doing well/average/poorly. It's going to last all of our M1 year, and I know a lot of people are pushing to make it a permanent thing, at least through the first 2 years. I have no idea if that will happen or not, of course, but it looks like it will continue as long as covid is here.

My classmates aren't competitive that I've ever seen. I mean, everyone tries to do their best, but we share notes, files, tips, etc. We have a class groupme where we talk and share different things (stupid covid means we don't have Monday night get-togethers), so anyone/everyone gets those tips and files. People offer to help practice what we can do in person (clinical skills, emergency first responder), even if they're solid on the material. The school also offers tutoring, and most of us take them up on the offer. The tutors are also super-friendly, sharing whatever tips/tricks/files they have. I've found two tutors I really like and never miss their sessions.

I'm not going to comment on research or the clinical years (M3/M4) since I haven't gotten there yet.

@starbucks1992 seems to have had a bad time of it, and I'm sorry to hear that. But I guess it goes to show that different people can experience the same thing and get something entirely different from it. @starbucks1992, I'm guessing you're in clinicals now, or maybe even applying to residencies. If so, good luck!!
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Hey, thanks for the update. I'm currently a M4. When I was in M1-2, we did have quartiles. Glad to hear they got rid of it-I do think that goes a very long way in cutting out unnecessary competition. If they continue to stick with the lack of quartile grading in M1-2, that would be great and probably will continue to keep the stuff I mentioned, at bay. I suspect that a large part of why your class may not be as competitive as mine (in a bad way)-may have to do with this-the lack of quartiles-all the competition I mentioned, was centered around people's anxiety over their standing in the quartile system. Before and after exams, at Monday-night gatherings, it was the main talk going on. So, I'm really happy they got rid of it...and I hope it stays that way!
 
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DesignatedSurvivor said:
It seems like you’re saying you guys are P/F only because of COVID? Is that correct? If so then there would currently be no reason for people to not collaborate. But if it goes back to quartiles after COVID is under control, then the environment @starbuck1992 is referencing might return?
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Yes...this is what I fear. Although, I'm not personally sure if the school plans to bring back quartile grading in M1-2 or not-perhaps cbenet can comment on it.
We briefly went Pass/Fail for M3 rotations during COVID, back in March-April. And yes, at that point, competition totally ceased-in my earlier rotations people would compare grades on shelf exams/clinical evals and compete. I had a girl I rotated with routinely try to take patients from me so she could look better/score a better eval (preceptor saw through it and didn't mark me down fortunately). But, all that competition and grade comparison disappeared when the school made our rotations pass/fail and declared they would not count towards quartile ranking.
I would be concerned if it was a temporary measure and if quartile grading would return.
 
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From just my observations between threads, it seems like the thread for this application season vs. earlier years is uncharacteristically quiet. I'm an IS applicant hoping to receive an interview invite but there does not seem to be a lot of chatter regarding IS students receiving invites at this point. Does anyone with knowledge have any idea if UC is a bit behind this year due to 'rona?
 
Chardeemacdennis60 said:
From just my observations between threads, it seems like the thread for this application season vs. earlier years is uncharacteristically quiet. I'm an IS applicant hoping to receive an interview invite but there does not seem to be a lot of chatter regarding IS students receiving invites at this point. Does anyone with knowledge have any idea if UC is a bit behind this year due to 'rona?
Click to expand...
IMG5810852459876991649.jpg
 
Chardeemacdennis60 said:
From just my observations between threads, it seems like the thread for this application season vs. earlier years is uncharacteristically quiet. I'm an IS applicant hoping to receive an interview invite but there does not seem to be a lot of chatter regarding IS students receiving invites at this point. Does anyone with knowledge have any idea if UC is a bit behind this year due to 'rona?
Click to expand...
You're right. One of the quietest threads on the board...at least until last Thursday / Friday when it heated up some 😉
 
Congrats to all those who got accepted!
Current student here, if you have any questions let me know, happy to answer here or via inbox
 
Anyone get a pre-ii R? I saw last year they sent them out in oct or nov and the year before early December
 
Reading @starbucks1992 post, maybe takes a little of the sting away.
starbucks1992 said:
I will be very honest here-I'm not a fan of it, and it's fostered a LOT of competition in our class. For reference, I'm in the second quartile, which is more than enough for the field I'm going into, and I have many interviews for residency, so I'm not posting this out of bitterness...but rather, honesty, and wishing that someone had told me this as I chose my medical school...

Pass/Fail on its own is great. It lets you learn the material, for the sake of learning it, and being a better doctor, removing the stress of competition. But the quartile system undoes all that. I must say that the students at UC are, as it is, very bright-the cream of the crop gets admitted here-so now imagine, competing within an already-genius subset of people, to rise to the top. Residency programs, especially in competitive fields, do take into account your class ranking if your school ranks. I know people who studied extremely hard, day in and day out, and efficiently too...mastered the material enough to do crazy well on USMLE Step 1 and Step 2-but, due to the intense competition at UC, were in the lower quartiles, which put them at a disadvantage for residency. There are some people here who don't need to study much-just a little bit-and still get awesome grades-and they're the ones who can master the volumes of material and be in the top quartile. Anyone else is destined to the bottom three quartiles, and even being in the 2nd quartile was extremely difficult.
There is extreme competition and backbiting among students sometimes. We would have exams in designated rooms each week, and before the exams, it was very routine for students to congregate outside the exam room bragging about their class ranking or how they did better than average-and those who didn't, remained quiet. After exams, all the talk was about how "I hope I got these answers right, so I can be above the average". Once scores were out, all the talk was about "ahhh, I am above the average, i'm in the first quartile!" In my experience, people would go around, asking others their scores, bragging about their own scores. It seemed that people did not try to do well, primarily to learn the material for Step 1/2-rather, the goal was to beat others and be in the top 1-2 quartiles.
Many schools don't employ the ranking system especially not in M1-2. Ours does-and considering that everyone here is already so smart-it puts a lot of really well qualified people at a major disadvantage. Also keep in mind a good number of people come here having done a postbacc etc, having studied graduate-level biochemistry, molecular biology, anatomy (a lot of the M1 material)-so yes, it comes easier to them, they will be higher ranked...keep this in mind if you are applying straight out of college like I did...I'm fortunate to have made it to the 2nd quartile but I know many people who didn't and they felt pretty beat up about it, not to mention that now when they are applying to residency, they have a "3rd quartile" or "4th quartile" ranking on their MSPE which can be a disadvantage
Click to expand...
 
Putkernerinthehall said:
Reading @starbucks1992 post, maybe takes a little of the sting away.
Click to expand...
Lol!
I was 100% honest in that post, just wanting to be informative and forthright.
Sorry to hear you were rejected though...I know it sucks...I wish you luck the best of this application season...
To be brutally honest there are still days today, and there were such days in M1-3 when I regretted choosing this place over other schools...
 
For those of you that got the R today, were they pre ii or post. And when were you complete?
I'm sorry to all of you though. I hope you get into another school!
 
NeelieMainer said:
Just got rejected 🙂 520 MCAT 3.97 gpa... good look friends 🙏🙏
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DRMR91 said:
For those of you that got the R today, were they pre ii or post. And when were you complete?
I'm sorry to all of you though. I hope you get into another school!
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Pre II-R, stats were also well above their average and IS.
 
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