2021-2022 Central Florida

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I am not sure if selfish is the right word here especially since there are no less comfortable alternatives that could help applicants feel better but still not have major issues with recruiting students to form a class before the start of an academic year.

Adcoms members are humans as well and they have limited resources (time for example). They can't make offer to let's say 100 people for 100 spots and wait and see how many declines and start interviewing again. They might really not be able to fill their class and the while process will be a lot more protracted (and applicants will suffer more). To call then selfish means there should be another option that inconveniences them but still gives you a reasonably similar results and I say there are none other than what they are currently doing.
Everything you say is true. Selfish to me is building a 200 person WL to maybe pull 20 or 30 people from, if that, without letting any of the people know where they stand unless and until they receive a call. Adcoms can and do do it, solely for their convenience, because they want to have maximum flexibility when the time comes.

I get it, and don't blame them, but it's not really necessary. They do it because they can. And people with good options don't typically allow themselves to be placed in limbo and used in that way, so, at the end of the day, it's people with no better options being jerked around by people who do it because they can.

UCF does it the right way, with total transparency. Everyone knows exactly where they stand, even the 100 or so people in the bottom third who are there if UCF needs them, even though UCF knows beyond a reasonable doubt that they won't. There is no reason all schools cannot be so transparent, other than they don't have to and it would be more work for them.

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It’s also frustrating to know your position but not know why you are at that position. A general WL could always just be a result of the inherent randomness of the process but a lower third WL means that over 100 people got better scores. This realization can haunt somebody with high stats who doesn’t have any acceptances. GPA and MCAT are both above UCFs 90th percentile so something must be wrong, but nobody ever tells you what when they tell you that you’ve been waitlisted. Then you’re expected to fix it in <7 months somehow if you ever want to be a doctor. This applies to all schools but it hurts more when you’re told that your app is the lowest of the low.
 
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Everything you say is true. Selfish to me is building a 200 person WL to be maybe pull 20 or 30 people from, if that, without letting any of the people know where they stand unless and until they receive a call. Adcoms can and do do it, solely for their convenience, because they want to have maximum flexibility when the time comes.

I get it, and don't blame them, but it's not really necessary. They do it because they can. And people with good options don't typically allow themselves to be placed in limbo and used in that way, so, at the end of the day, it's people with no better options being jerked around by people who do it because they can.

UCF does it the right way, with total transparency. Everyone knows exactly where they stand, even the 100 or so people in the bottom third who are there if UCF needs them, even though UCF knows beyond a reasonable doubt that they won't. There is no reason all schools cannot be so transparent, other than they don't have to and it would be more work for them.
Totally agree. If adcoms are really doing what you said (building a very long list of WL when it is really really unnecessary to do so) is kind of evil. But I still think UCF is doing what is "necessary" and I think it is very reasonable.
 
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Totally agree. If adcoms are really doing what you said (building a very long list of WL when it is really really unnecessary to do so) is kind of evil. But I still think UCF is doing what is "necessary" and I think it is very reasonable.
1,000,000% agree with respect to UCF. As far as other schools, I don't think it's evil. I prefer to think of it as selfish, but it's precisely what every school that does not reject post-II does with all of its interviewees who do not receive an A.

UCF is very conservative, and does not issue initial As far in excess of its 120 seats. It builds a large WL, but plans to use it extensively, since it knows its yield will be far below 100%. Most schools, however, tend to match initial As to historic yields, so they issue many more As than the number of spots in the class. Those school do not plan to make extensive use of their WLs, and yet many of them place everyone interviewed who was not accepted on the WL. As a result, they sometimes have 100+ on a WL, with no ranking and no communication, when they know they will be pulling few if any from it.

Not rejecting many of these people post-II is just selfish. It benefits the school, but provides false hope and keeps most people hanging for no reason other than the school's convenience.
 
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It’s also frustrating to know your position but not know why you are at that position. A general WL could always just be a result of the inherent randomness of the process but a lower third WL means that over 100 people got better scores. This realization can haunt somebody with high stats who doesn’t have any acceptances. GPA and MCAT are both above UCFs 90th percentile so something must be wrong, but nobody ever tells you what when they tell you that you’ve been waitlisted. Then you’re expected to fix it in <7 months somehow if you ever want to be a doctor. This applies to all schools but it hurts more when you’re told that your app is the lowest of the low.
I hear you. UCF is so transparent with everything else. Hopefully, they will give you some feedback. Probably not now, but at the end of the cycle. That obviously won't help you for next cycle, but would for any cycle thereafter.

Again, I beg you not to be haunted. It's one school and one adcom. You were NOT told your app was the "lowest of the low." It was the lowest of the top 10%. Big difference!!

Clearly, your stats are not an issue. In fact, it looks like your written application must have been superlative to avoid being resource protected out at a lower tier school with stats at the 90%-ile. You also indicated you had a high priority review, as evidenced by an early II. Unfortunately, without knowing anything else about you or your app, it really looks like something happened in your interview.

Is anything popping out for you? You might have said something that rubbed someone the wrong way. Or not. Maybe one of your interviewers was just an a-hole. Did you get any funny vibes during the interview? Without knowing more or getting some feedback, there really is nothing for you to do, and there really might not be anything at all to fix.

It's not early, but it's really not too late for you to receive more IIs at this point in the cycle. Was this your only one so far?
 
Few more things to keep in mind. This waitlist position is not set in stone. As they continue placing applicants in the WL (after the interview) those positions can be potentially pushed down. IT depends upon where the applicant is placed (scored by UCF). I am glad UCF is being transparent and releasing this level of information. I wish they release a similar waitlist for AORTA pool for those of us who either applied late or got ranked lower.
 
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Few more things to keep in mind. This waitlist position is not set in stone. As they continue placing applicants in the WL (after the interview) those positions can be potentially pushed down. IT depends upon where the applicant is placed (scored by UCF). I am glad UCF is being transparent and releasing this level of information. I wish they release a similar waitlist for AORTA pool for those of us who either applied late or got ranked lower.
Where are you getting this from? It is not my understanding, and would, in fact, render the disclosure meaningless if it was dynamic and subject to change throughout the remainder of the cycle. I am pretty sure that the third of the WL you are on is actually set in stone. If I am incorrect, please point me to what I am missing, whether it's a post from @REL, something in an e-mail, or on the website, or whatever. Thanks!!!
 
Where are you getting this from? It is not my understanding, and would, in fact, render the disclosure meaningless if it was dynamic and subject to change throughout the remainder of the cycle. I am pretty sure that the third of the WL you are on is actually set in stone. If I am incorrect, please point me to what I am missing, whether it's a post from @REL, something in an e-mail, or on the website, or whatever. Thanks!!!
The reason it’s not set in stone is that new people are still being interviewed and could be added to the WL pool
 
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The reason it’s not set in stone is that new people are still being interviewed and could be added to the WL pool
Yes, but UCF is extremely transparent. They have a protocol for assigning people to tiers, and have a history regarding pulling from the tiers. It would be extremely misleading for them to assign someone to the first or second third, and then have that change as new people are added.

Trust me, they know based on the file's score exactly where someone falls on the WL, notwithstanding the fact that future interviewees will certainly be added to all 3 tiers. The relative position (1st, 2nd or 3rd third) is indeed set in stone when it is assigned. At least that is my understanding from what @REL has said in the past.
 
The reason it’s not set in stone is that new people are still being interviewed and could be added to the WL pool
In case anyone is still interested, THIS is the post I was thinking of that forms the basis of my assertion that the WL tier is set in stone. It is Post #670 in the 2020-21 UCF thread, in response to the question "Once we are on the waitlist can significant updates or letters of intent move us to a higher ranking on the waitlist or since it is already ranked will movement only come as people are selected off the top?":

Once a file has met the committee to determine whether you are accepted or waitlisted they will not go back and review any updates to change an applicant's position.
 
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In case anyone is still interested, THIS is the post I was thinking of that forms the basis of my assertion that the WL tier is set in stone. It is Post #670 in the 2020-21 UCF thread, in response to the question "Once we are on the waitlist can significant updates or letters of intent move us to a higher ranking on the waitlist or since it is already ranked will movement only come as people are selected off the top?":
My understanding is that you can no longer submit any updates that would change your
In case anyone is still interested, THIS is the post I was thinking of that forms the basis of my assertion that the WL tier is set in stone. It is Post #670 in the 2020-21 UCF thread, in response to the question "Once we are on the waitlist can significant updates or letters of intent move us to a higher ranking on the waitlist or since it is already ranked will movement only come as people are selected off the top?":
Basically, every applicant after post-interview will have a score and be placed in the WL (Those who didn't get the "A"). All this post says is that this score will not change by any updates done to the application. As applicants are placed in the WL scores of other applicants DO NOT change but their position on the WL can potentially change. So doing updates to your application after the interview is a waste of time and will not be looked at by the admissions committee.
 
Hee is the Q/A for post 670 from last year's thread:

@REL Once we are on the waitlist can significant updates or letters of intent move us to a higher ranking on the waitlist or since it is already ranked will movement only come as people are selected off the top?
Once a file has met the committee to determine whether you are accepted or waitlisted they will not go back and review any updates to change an applicant's position.
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I took this question to mean that will the Committee review the update and rescore their application and potentially increase their committee score/ranking. The answer is the Committee will only review and score an application once and it will include all information, including updates received before the meeting, only once. Anything added after that score will not change that final committee score. So a score of ?60? will always be a 60. Any updates, Letters of Intent, Letters of Interest, will be added to the file but the Committee will not rescore that application and change that 60.

These post-committee updates MAY have some value after being placed on the WL. An example could be that there are 4 applicants tied on the WL with 60. For this example, I will consider a 60 to reside in the middle one-third and that we are in the month of May. In this case the Committee will examine the files to determine if updates have been received, showing continued interest, or if a Letter of Interest or Letter of Intent as been received.

Consider the following for the four applicants of which ANY could be selected.

- Applicant A submitted a Letter of Interest: Considered a soft commitment, ie. I am interested but not committed and I am still evaluating choices because I dont have my top choice acceptance yet.
- Applicant B submitted a Letter of Intent (to matriculate): If you offer I will come and will not accept any other offers. If you submit this and then do not matriculate it is possible that we will report this lack of professionalism to the school where you do matriculate. Lack of professionalism is a serious part of the curriculum at all med programs and that Student Affairs Dean may inquire as to your lack of integrity
- Applicant C submitted an update that did not include either of the above: The update provided information that showed continuous upgrades in areas of their application and motivation to become a physician.
- Applicant D did not submit any of the above but was believe to be a good applicant for our program overall.

The selection could be any of these, but there would often be a very, very, slight edge to Applicant B's Letter of Intent.

It is important to remember that a 60 who sent a Letter of Interest would not be reviewed until all of the applicants scored above a 60 were exhausted. So a Letter of Intent, or any updates submitted after the Committee's review, will only come in to play when we are in that 60 score neighborhood.
 
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Hee is the Q/A for post 670 from last year's thread:


Once a file has met the committee to determine whether you are accepted or waitlisted they will not go back and review any updates to change an applicant's position.
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I took this question to mean that will the Committee review the update and rescore their application and potentially increase their committee score/ranking. The answer is the Committee will only review and score an application once and it will include all information, including updates received before the meeting, only once. Anything added after that score will not change that final committee score. So a score of ?60? will always be a 60. Any updates, Letters of Intent, Letters of Interest, will be added to the file but the Committee will not rescore that application and change that 60.

These post-committee updates MAY have some value after being placed on the WL. An example could be that there are 4 applicants tied on the WL with 60. For this example, I will consider a 60 to reside in the middle one-third and that we are in the month of May. In this case the Committee will examine the files to determine if updates have been received, showing continued interest, or if a Letter of Interest or Letter of Intent as been received.

Consider the following for the four applicants of which ANY could be selected.

- Applicant A submitted a Letter of Interest: Considered a soft commitment, ie. I am interested but not committed and I am still evaluating choices because I dont have my top choice acceptance yet.
- Applicant B submitted a Letter of Intent (to matriculate): If you offer I will come and will not accept any other offers. If you submit this and then do not matriculate it is possible that we will report this lack of professionalism to the school where you do matriculate. Lack of professionalism is a serious part of the curriculum at all med programs and that Student Affairs Dean may inquire as to your lack of integrity
- Applicant C submitted an update that did not include either of the above: The update provided information that showed continuous upgrades in areas of their application and motivation to become a physician.
- Applicant D did not submit any of the above but was believe to be a good applicant for our program overall.

The selection could be any of these, but there would often be a very, very, slight edge to Applicant B's Letter of Intent.

It is important to remember that a 60 who sent a Letter of Interest would not be reviewed until all of the applicants scored above a 60 were exhausted. So a Letter of Intent, or any updates submitted after the Committee's review, will only come in to play when we are in that 60 score neighborhood.
You see what I am saying guys? REL and UCF is seriously the best and probably the most transparent schools out there.
 
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Hee is the Q/A for post 670 from last year's thread:


Once a file has met the committee to determine whether you are accepted or waitlisted they will not go back and review any updates to change an applicant's position.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I took this question to mean that will the Committee review the update and rescore their application and potentially increase their committee score/ranking. The answer is the Committee will only review and score an application once and it will include all information, including updates received before the meeting, only once. Anything added after that score will not change that final committee score. So a score of ?60? will always be a 60. Any updates, Letters of Intent, Letters of Interest, will be added to the file but the Committee will not rescore that application and change that 60.

These post-committee updates MAY have some value after being placed on the WL. An example could be that there are 4 applicants tied on the WL with 60. For this example, I will consider a 60 to reside in the middle one-third and that we are in the month of May. In this case the Committee will examine the files to determine if updates have been received, showing continued interest, or if a Letter of Interest or Letter of Intent as been received.

Consider the following for the four applicants of which ANY could be selected.

- Applicant A submitted a Letter of Interest: Considered a soft commitment, ie. I am interested but not committed and I am still evaluating choices because I dont have my top choice acceptance yet.
- Applicant B submitted a Letter of Intent (to matriculate): If you offer I will come and will not accept any other offers. If you submit this and then do not matriculate it is possible that we will report this lack of professionalism to the school where you do matriculate. Lack of professionalism is a serious part of the curriculum at all med programs and that Student Affairs Dean may inquire as to your lack of integrity
- Applicant C submitted an update that did not include either of the above: The update provided information that showed continuous upgrades in areas of their application and motivation to become a physician.
- Applicant D did not submit any of the above but was believe to be a good applicant for our program overall.

The selection could be any of these, but there would often be a very, very, slight edge to Applicant B's Letter of Intent.

It is important to remember that a 60 who sent a Letter of Interest would not be reviewed until all of the applicants scored above a 60 were exhausted. So a Letter of Intent, or any updates submitted after the Committee's review, will only come in to play when we are in that 60 score neighborhood.

So if I placed on the upper 1/3, is there a chance for me to move down to the middle third in future updates? Or should I feel confident that I will remain in the upper third based on my score and will eventually be offered an acceptance? Thank you for your time and helpfulness.
 
Kudos to REL and UCF for being this transparent about the whole process. I would appreciate it if they can also provide similar pre-II waitlist tiers for those who are in AORTA waiting to be called for an interview.
 
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For those who were told to hear back on Nov 30th, did you receive any reply?
 
For those who were told to hear back on Nov 30th, did you receive any reply?
When I heard back earlier this month I got mine at around 11:30am EST
 
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So if I placed on the upper 1/3, is there a chance for me to move down to the middle third in future updates? Or should I feel confident that I will remain in the upper third based on my score and will eventually be offered an acceptance? Thank you for your time and helpfulness.
The Waitlist is not set in stone during the interview season. The Committee meets near weekly from September - March. At every meeting all of the applicants will be reviewed and added to the Not Yet Accepted/Wait List based on the committee vote score. At the end of each meeting they will review the list and select the top ~6 applicants for acceptance. The admissions office will normally call ALL newly reviewed applicant the next day.

Pertaining to the Wait List, during the admissions committee meeting season, we add to it based on vote totals and then remove applicants from the top weekly. In general this means that the WL grows by 10 applicants weekly.

Can an applicant's file move from an initial position the upper 1/3 to the middle 1/3? It is possible very early in the season when the list is small, but not not very likely as the list grows. Consider that the committee admits off the top of the list weekly and also distributes the other ?10? throughout the list. This creates a slow upward drift of applicants on the list in the upper 1/3 and even the upper half of the middle 1/3 as the list grows. So it is more common for the upper middle 1/3 to drift into the upper 1/3 that for someone to fall out of the upper 1/3.
 
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The Waitlist is not set in stone during the interview season. The Committee meets near weekly from September - March. At every meeting all of the applicants will be reviewed and added to the Not Yet Accepted/Wait List based on the committee vote score. At the end of each meeting they will review the list and select the top ~6 applicants for acceptance. The admissions office will normally call ALL newly reviewed applicant the next day.

Consider that the committee admits off the top of the list weekly and also distributes the other ?10? throughout the list. This creates a slow upward drift of applicants on the list in the upper 1/3 and even the upper half of the middle 1/3 as the list grows. So it is more common for the upper middle 1/3 to drift into the upper 1/3 that for someone to fall out of the upper 1/3.
Are you saying that you might notify someone that they are in the top 1/3 of the WL, and then accept them the next week?
 
I wasn’t “attacking” and I apologize to rel if it comes across like that. Just trying to understand why the lowest third exists if it isn’t used and what’s the purpose of including info that serves no purpose other than making applicants feel bad about themselves?

For example, is it really necessary to know that over sixty people got higher scores? Without knowing why the score was lower than 2/3 of other applicants, this info just leads to self-doubt and anxiety.

Most people don’t have 18 acceptances. For people with 0, worrying about what they will do next year, knowing that their application was worse than 150+ others is just a reminder that they won’t be in med school next fall.
Thank you for this conversation about the monthly update email.

Prior to starting med school admissions in the early 90's, I completed 21 years in the military (12 years overseas). My med school career began at USF at a time when med school admissions was easy, there was no holistic admissions, you just looked at the GPA, MCAT score, and academic program/degree to offer an interview. There was little to no communication between applicants and the admissions office outside of recruiting events, SDN was a fledgling effort, and AMCAS decided to convert from a DOS-based weekly data delivery system of application to med programs. Prior to this applicants mailed a paper application to AMCAS. The conversion attempt to serve all med programs and applicant via an on-line system melted down within a week (they hired a vendor that led them to believe a single server would suffice to facilitate processing of applications and service to admissions offices.)

You can see that it was a nightmarish start to my career. Since my forte was heavily involved with communications in my first career I was horrified at such a national process. I did eventually find a very fledgling SDN to help communicate with the masses and educate them in what my med school was looking for. I also forsook the traditional use of the postal service and called applicants for an interview and to provide committee results. It was also during these early years that I strongly felt that an applicant was more than metrics so we began to look more deeply into the application for specific qualities of an applicant. I found that I was not unique in looking more deeply into an application.....soon-thereafter the word Holistic's came about.

I moved from USF to create the UCF Med Program in 2007 and had a clean slate and the authority to build an admissions process that would support applicants and create a process that would be as informative to applicants as possible. We began to provide WL applicants some periodic information on their WL status here and project the probability of acceptance (or not). My belief was that if an applicant knew this, they would be better off. If they were interested in my program, or if they were in a position that didn't look very likely, they could pivot to a program where they may have a better chance. From the program standpoint you never know how this will end. I do admit that the lower 1/3 has not had much acceptance opportunity once the committee process has been completed in March. I simply dont like to "reject" someone before the final bell rings.

Updates provide applicants an opportunity to see if their position improves and gives them the opportunity to withdraw when they feel like the time is right. As a career "intel" guy I have always believed that the more information that you provide to someone, the better decision they can make for themselves and their situation. I dont believe that I can be dissuaded from this thought.
 
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Are you saying that you might notify someone that they are in the top 1/3 of the WL, and then accept them the next week?
The committee meets weekly and if someone is at the very top of the top 1/3 the very well could be accepted the next week. It has happened in the past.
 
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The committee meets weekly and if someone is at the very top of the top 1/3 the very well could be accepted the next week. It has happened in the past.
Do you have any insight into applicants that are still in the AORTA status and have had silence since then? Thank you in advance!
 
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@REL , Appreciate the advice and the insight into the process. From what you posted it looks like UCF interviews about 16 applicants a week with 6 getting the “A” and 10 going into the WL. This means another 12 to 14 weeks of interviews remain. That means any where between 160 to 200 applicants will be pulled from AORTA. With the application deadline almost over it would be worth while for those of us in AORTA to get an idea of where we are placed in the AORTA. Please let the top 200 in the AORTA know that they are positioned for a possible interview.
 
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What are the chances that a lower 1/3 applicant waitlisted in December moves up to the upper middle or top 1/3 in March?
 
Got the call this morning that I’m waitlisted. I was told I’m in the upper third. Does everyone in the upper third always get an acceptance or am I understanding it wrong?
 
Got the call this morning that I’m waitlisted. I was told I’m in the upper third. Does everyone in the upper third always get an acceptance or am I understanding it wrong?
I was actually talking to a UCF M4 I met at the Sunday night info session and they mentioned that they were waitlisted in the upper third but accepted to a low-tier MD program in the northeast (FL resident). They actually ended up declining their acceptance at that other program and ended up getting into UCF. The way they described it, a good portion of the class is also made up of upper 1/3 waitlist applicants.
 
Got the call this morning that I’m waitlisted. I was told I’m in the upper third. Does everyone in the upper third always get an acceptance or am I understanding it wrong?
You're good. Just go back and look at the UCF thread for the past two years. They cleared the upper third both years, so there is no reason to expect that won't happen again. Of course, no guarantees if their yield mysteriously goes through the roof, but it's a really safe bet. Congratulations!!!
 
What are the chances that a lower 1/3 applicant waitlisted in December moves up to the upper middle or top 1/3 in March?
Difficult to tell. If you were near the top of the lower 1/3 it is possible to move up comfortably in the lower middle 1/3 which may get you an A later in the process. It simply depends upon the scores given by the committee for the many applicants that will still be interviewed and placed on the list somewhere.
 
You're good. Just go back and look at the UCF thread for the past two years. They cleared the upper third both years, so there is no reason to expect that won't happen again. Of course, no guarantees if their yield mysteriously goes through the roof, but it's a really safe bet. Congratulations!!!
Agree, it is a bet I would take too! We have never missed an offer to all of the upper 1/3 in our history. So if history is an accurate guide......

Remember all schools lose applicants from both their class and the wait list beginning around the March timeframe and into May, maybe early June, when things begin to slow down markedly.
 
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@REL do you actively look at DMS? I had a question regarding a letter of interest and whatnot.
I am having a brain cramp ---- DMS? All that clicks is Defense Mapping Service and I am reasonably sure that is not what you are referring to.
 
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I am having a brain cramp ---- DMS? All that clicks is Defense Mapping Service and I am reasonably sure that is not what you are referring to.
I think they mean Direct Messages as opposed to posting on the forum here!
 
@REL I’ve been under review (pre-EFI decision) for well over 15 business days. Does this happen or should I contact the admissions office to make sure they have everything?
 
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@REL can you provide any insight to applicants who are in the AORTA pool with complete silence?
 
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@REL I’ve been under review (pre-EFI decision) for well over 15 business days. Does this happen or should I contact the admissions office to make sure they have everything?
Yes, contact [email protected] and see what may be happening. I suspect that your application has been moving along but we did not send you a file complete email.
 
When do the monthly updates from UCF regarding our position on the WL come out? Ex. First of the month, first Monday of the month, etc.
 
When do the monthly updates from UCF regarding our position on the WL come out? Ex. First of the month, first Monday of the month, etc.
We try to send it toward the end of the month, sometimes it ends up one week later toward the first of the month.
 
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interview invite received just now : ) !! this made my day during finals week lol! Complete early august OOS
 
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ii received just now! so excited!!! LM 72, IS, complete mid-august :)
 
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Got the A this morning at 10 am!! My first acceptance! So excited to be part of the UCF fam :soexcited:
 
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Hello everyone! For the interview does anyone have any insight about what it's like? Also do they tell you who will be interviewing you or do you just find out on interview day? Thanks y'all !!
 
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