ATSU-SOMA v NYCOM

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I should say that I thought Gilbert was AWESOME! And I will probably move back there when all is said and done. Can't beat the combo of weather, quiet/safe city, proximity to major metro area.

I can't say I agree with this statement. Being from a densely populated metropolitan city, I had culture shock when I moved here. Nearly everything is national chain, and there aren't a lot of interesting shops, or things to do other than outdoor type activities. For someone from new york, it could possibly be difficult to adjust to as well. However, I do believe Mesa/ Gilbert are potentially good places if you want to raise kids.

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I can't say I agree with this statement. Being from a densely populated metropolitan city, I had culture shock when I moved here. Nearly everything is national chain, and there aren't a lot of interesting shops, or things to do other than outdoor type activities. For someone from new york, it could possibly be difficult to adjust to as well. However, I do believe Mesa/ Gilbert are potentially good places if you want to raise kids.

It is true, people in my class either loved it or hated it in Gilbert. I loved it though, and would gladly move back. I didn't have time or interest in hunting for unique places to shop, I love the outdoors, especially the desert. The eat didn't bother me at all. And I have kids, so the quiet safe neighborhoods were a huge plus. About the only thing that could have made it any better for me was a good Flyfishing stream closer to the city.
 
It is true, people in my class either loved it or hated it in Gilbert. I loved it though, and would gladly move back. I didn't have time or interest in hunting for unique places to shop, I love the outdoors, especially the desert. The eat didn't bother me at all. And I have kids, so the quiet safe neighborhoods were a huge plus. About the only thing that could have made it any better for me was a good Flyfishing stream closer to the city.

:thumbup:
 
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not true. SOMA presents material in a system based manner, so basic science is dispersed throughout first and second year.

yeah huh! ;)

SOMA is even more unique than even saying they teach systems based. They take an extra long first year to lay a solid basic sciences foundation. They utilize the "clinical presentation" model to give it all clinical context from the get go, and from the second year on, you are out at CHCs which are more analogous to clerkship years.;)

Like SLC explains below, 1st year is intense science year (though you also have early clinical integration, sim labs, standardized patients, etc).

But, that doesn't mean the basic sciences are then abandoned afterwards.

True, but most of the foundational concepts are learned in 1st year, 2nd year is light on new material; it's mostly just application of the same principles to different systems.

First year at SOMA is super intense.
 
yeah huh! ;)

SOMA is even more unique than even saying they teach systems based. They take an extra long first year to lay a solid basic sciences foundation. They utilize the "clinical presentation" model to give it all clinical context from the get go, and from the second year on, you are out at CHCs which are more analogous to clerkship years.;)

Like SLC explains below, 1st year is intense science year (though you also have early clinical integration, sim labs, standardized patients, etc).

But, that doesn't mean the basic sciences are then abandoned afterwards.

I really like the clinical presentation model too, it is pretty logical compared to the more traditional models.
 
You don't sit on the grass for long (found out the hard way on the 4th of July fireworks show with my kids), or the ants will sting you.

You get a blacklight to check for Scorpions, I advise pairing that with a tack hammer. Every night I went out and checked around the outside of the house, and smashed any I found. Once I started doing that, I stopped seeing them inside. :eek:

You spray (or have your landlord spray) for crickets and cockroaches, which are everywhere at night, to help cut them down at your house (they're little more than scorpion food, which means more scorpions).

Other than that, the critters pretty much leave you alone unless you bother them.

I should say that I thought Gilbert was AWESOME! And I will probably move back there when all is said and done. Can't beat the combo of weather, quiet/safe city, proximity to major metro area.

Gotta love Arizona... nice combo of big city amenities right in the middle of one of the world's harsher environments.
 
I def want to leave NY. But from what I've been reading Hawaii isnt all amazing sunshine. Apparently its expensive (still cheaper than NY I think but idk). It has huuuuuuge centipedes, cockroaches and spiders (yikesss!) and apparently the locals dont like white people that much. Plus Waianae is not really a nice wealthy part of Hawaii, its actually in a poorer part. But who knows? Forums usually exaggerate (just like SDN) :laugh:

a little bit of overstatement perhaps? That said, people from my class (white or otherwise) who go to Hawaii DO all tend to have some sort of connection to the state, so make sure your willingness to go there is more than just superficial
 
You know, it's interesting how many people on this thread (myself included) were accepted at SOMA, sing its praises, talk it up to others, and yet ultimately decided to matriculate elsewhere. Not a criticism, just an observation. I was unequivocally impressed by the school, and yet I decided to go elsewhere.
 
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You know, it's interesting how many people on this thread (myself included) were accepted at SOMA, sing its praises, talk it up to others, and yet ultimately decided to matriculate elsewhere. Not a criticism, just an observation. I was unequivocally impressed by the school, and yet I decided to go elsewhere.

In the end if you're accepted at PCOM, CCOM, DMU, or Western you'll probably go there instead for reputation. SOMA while a great school is fundamentally a mid level and new school. Going to a school with a larger alumni base has its benefits.
 
I can't say I agree with this statement. Being from a densely populated metropolitan city, I had culture shock when I moved here. Nearly everything is national chain, and there aren't a lot of interesting shops, or things to do other than outdoor type activities. For someone from new york, it could possibly be difficult to adjust to as well. However, I do believe Mesa/ Gilbert are potentially good places if you want to raise kids.

Wow, is it weird that your description makes me want to live in Arizona? Unfortunately my only shot at that seems to be a pre-interview hold (ouch) at AZCOM. I don't know how Glendale compares to Gilbert/Mesa, but warm weather sounds nice right about now. I'm getting tired of freezing temperatures into March, but at least it seems to finally be warming up.

You know, it's interesting how many people on this thread (myself included) were accepted at SOMA, sing its praises, talk it up to others, and yet ultimately decided to matriculate elsewhere. Not a criticism, just an observation. I was unequivocally impressed by the school, and yet I decided to go elsewhere.

That's usually a sign of a good program, right? Or at least of a good sales pitch at the interview. It could also be an issue of who accepted you first. I'm sure that first acceptance always has a special place in your heart, even if you end up with a better spot afterwards.

Where did you end up picking over SOMA? AZCOM?

In the end if you're accepted at PCOM, CCOM, DMU, or Western you'll probably go there instead for reputation. SOMA while a great school is fundamentally a mid level and new school. Going to a school with a larger alumni base has its benefits.

I don't know. I wouldn't go to CCOM or DMU over SOMA (if I even had a choice). I probably would go to Western, and maybe PCOM, but it depends. I kind of like the way clinicals and the education is set up at SOMA.
 
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In the end if you're accepted at PCOM, CCOM, DMU, or Western you'll probably go there instead for reputation. SOMA while a great school is fundamentally a mid level and new school. Going to a school with a larger alumni base has its benefits.

I actually picked SOMA over DMU, mainly because of the CHC model.

Wow, is it weird that your description makes me want to live in Arizona? Unfortunately my only shot at that seems to be a pre-interview hold (ouch) at AZCOM. I don't know how Glendale compares to Gilbert/Mesa, but warm weather sounds nice right about now. I'm getting tired of freezing temperatures into March, but at least it seems to finally be warming up.

Ha, it's gonna hit 90 degrees today in Mesa
 
I chose SOMA over Western-NW. However, I would have been happy going to either (hopefully).
 
I actually picked SOMA over DMU, mainly because of the CHC model.

a


me three. I think SOMA is great. I picked SOMA over a handful of schools (inc NOVA, OSU, TCOM).

I ended up choosing MU-COM in the end, but for similar reasons why I would have chosen SOMA had it not been for the diamond in the rough that is MU-COM ;)
 
me three. I think SOMA is great. I picked SOMA over a handful of schools (inc NOVA, OSU, TCOM).

I ended up choosing MU-COM in the end, but for similar reasons why I would have chosen SOMA had it not been for the diamond in the rough that is MU-COM ;)

I don't think I would have ever declined TCOM. 10k tuition a year in-state, 20k oos and the Texas medical system is not something I can pass up. But yah, do tell us about MU-COM.
 
Wow, is it weird that your description makes me want to live in Arizona? Unfortunately my only shot at that seems to be a pre-interview hold (ouch) at AZCOM. I don't know how Glendale compares to Gilbert/Mesa, but warm weather sounds nice right about now. I'm getting tired of freezing temperatures into March, but at least it seems to finally be warming up.



That's usually a sign of a good program, right? Or at least of a good sales pitch at the interview. It could also be an issue of who accepted you first. I'm sure that first acceptance always has a special place in your heart, even if you end up with a better spot afterwards.

Where did you end up picking over SOMA? AZCOM?



I don't know. I wouldn't go to CCOM or DMU over SOMA (if I even had a choice). I probably would go to Western, and maybe PCOM, but it depends. I kind of like the way clinicals and the education is set up at SOMA.

Yeah, I picked AZCOM. And I think you're right about first acceptances. My SOMA acceptance came much later, after I had paid the deposit at AZCOM. I know SOMA's lower tuition would have been worth it, but my wife and I had both already really taken a liking to Glendale and to AZCOM in general. Plus, I have quite a few friends from undergrad at AZCOM as well, so that will be a plus.

You're right about Arizona, it's the finest monument there is to massive American consumerism... miles and miles of suburbs that go on and on seemingly forever, punctuated by every major big box chain imaginable in near perfect one-mile intervals. I kind of love it, in a weird, ironic way.
 
I don't think I would have ever declined TCOM. 10k tuition a year in-state, 20k oos and the Texas medical system is not something I can pass up. But yah, do tell us about MU-COM.

true, take the cheapest and run!!
 
I don't think I would have ever declined TCOM. 10k tuition a year in-state, 20k oos and the Texas medical system is not something I can pass up. But yah, do tell us about MU-COM.

Well, TCOM is up to 30K for non residents (18K for residents). It is a very good bang for the buck, as is OSU. (Also, TCOMs administration, that I've met, get a pretty big thumbs down from me. Uptight and arrogant. The UT system is amazing though, as are the hospitals. But TCOM isn't really tapped into that)

But, I'be decided to accept the Air Force HPSP scholarship, so tuition became a non issue.

As for MU-COM, I applied to it barely knowing much about it. I could go on for a while about it, but in the end, it just seemed to have it all.

Hospitals- it's main teaching hospital (st Vincent's) has nearly 900 beds and is nationally ranked in 5 specialties (high performing is several others). That's not to mention its other hospitals, including a great DO hospital, all of whom have donated money to MU-COM (not the other way around, which is great!) I'm order to have the med school send students there to train. Big, medium and community hospitals.

Faculty/Admin: We get personal emails regularly. Their website is impeccable. They have more NBOME faculty than any other school (outside of maybe MSU) who have been attracted there from DMU, OSU, PCOM etc.

Facilities: $1 mil technology budget. Hydraulic OMM tables, anatomy lab with huge monitors at each station, sim labs with sim man 3G, delivery, child and surgical replication. New research lab being built as well to be ready right away. Access to St Vincent's surgical lab, which has a da Vinci surgical robot.

iPad mini integration: "Giving" us the mini...which I think is a great call.

Community: they are pumped. 1st med school in Indy in over 100 years. The city itself is clean and vibrant. Each visit to the school, there have been docs from the community who express their excitement for us to be there.

I should stop...I'll probably write my own thread about MU-COM that will bore most people. But I really feel like I chances into a really amazing program.

Some will be scared to be the first class, but that's part of the draw for me. We will part of building something that will last. Without "upperclassman", we'll have the greatest potential for creativity.

Anyway, I feel like I am making this too long, so ill end this mini high-jacking
 
You aren't worried about being the inaugural class at a new medical school? At least UCF gave a full-ride to their inaugural class.

Paying $42,000 for the first 10-months (per their website) to be a guinea pig seems a little outrageous.
 
I personally would be worried about going to a brand new med school, especially a smaller school. There are too many unknowns, especially when it comes to having no idea how the rotations will be set up.
 
I personally would be worried about going to a brand new med school, especially a smaller school. There are too many unknowns, especially when it comes to having no idea how the rotations will be set up.
I would do it in a heartbeat if they gave a tuition break for the first class. I thought UCF set a great precedent with their scholarship...but, alas.
 
You aren't worried about being the inaugural class at a new medical school? At least UCF gave a full-ride to their inaugural class.

Paying $42,000 for the first 10-months (per their website) to be a guinea pig seems a little outrageous.

The fact that DO schools don't give their first class a full or at least half ride was always insulting in my mind.
 
I'm surprised anyone would ever reject TCOM to attend a higher-tuition DO school. TCOM rejected me this cycle, but it will always rank high on my list. Uptight and arrogant is not something I'd say about TCOM, having met several people, both faculty and students. It's a very laid back place except in academics. I know I'd never turn down a TCOM acceptance - cheap tuition, zero deposit, great rotations within minutes, high board pass rate, solid matches for 40+ years... Awesome location to boot.
 
I'm surprised anyone would ever reject TCOM to attend a higher-tuition DO school. TCOM rejected me this cycle, but it will always rank high on my list. Uptight and arrogant is not something I'd say about TCOM, having met several people, both faculty and students. It's a very laid back place except in academics. I know I'd never turn down a TCOM acceptance - cheap tuition, zero deposit, great rotations within minutes, high board pass rate, solid matches for 40+ years... Awesome location to boot.

just a curiosity. Is TCOM also on the DO app or still just Texas App?
 
just a curiosity. Is TCOM also on the DO app or still just Texas App?

its still part of TMDSAS...but its really cheap to apply to.

And, for the comments about it being cheap...it is. But the HPSP pays for my tuition so thats not really a consideration.

In almost every case I fully agree that a sig cheaper school is the best route for anyone.

You aren't worried about being the inaugural class at a new medical school? At least UCF gave a full-ride to their inaugural class.

Paying $42,000 for the first 10-months (per their website) to be a guinea pig seems a little outrageous.

Nice try other school adcom. ;) Their tuition is average...but again, it seems like you might have missed that I am going for the HPSP, so tuition isn't a consideration anyway.

I personally would be worried about going to a brand new med school, especially a smaller school. There are too many unknowns, especially when it comes to having no idea how the rotations will be set up.

This has always been a weak gen argument to shy away from a program. Whether its a new or an "established" school, they are all in flux. Curriculum and staffing change...especially right now. There is a certain established school right now that is having trouble keeping teachers around because they are wanting to slowly convert to systems based curriculum. PS change is usually a good thing.

To be specific, a curriculum can be tried and true...but old. You cant stand still in medicine or education. In fact, practically every school right now is overhauling their curriculum to answer the Carnegie report (go systems based). The faculty at MU-COM have more combined experience than any DO school I know currently. Last I checked they had more NBOME faculty than any other school. (MSU was up there too). Those are the people who write and review the Boards. So, I feel like the academics will be pretty top notch. Just because a school or program is new, doesn't mean the faculty just got their PhDs, lol.


Clinical years are the ones you have to make sure are lined up. The third and fourth year at MU-COM will be at places who have trained medical students for decades. So, again, the generic argument doesn't fit here either. Im not sure if any DO school has a better network of training hospitals. Not sure what else to say except, look at all the schools you'd like and if you find something better than what MU-COM has let me know. If you find yourself thinking, I dont know what MU-COM, or other schools, have 3rd and 4th year...then maybe you aren't ready for this conversation ;)

I have found that people dont like to really research their schools, so they rely on a name. That works sometimes. Sometimes not. If you think about the schools with recent rotation problems they have been in newer and more established schools.(ie PNWU & Midwestern) If you look at board scores/matching for schools they have been good at newer and established schools. )i.e. RVU, TouroNV & DMU).


I dont think I feel the same entitlement to scholarship as you express. It'd be nice, but it doesn't really happen at DO schools.


This isnt law school where your school is your ceiling. SDN likes to rank and worry and pontificate...but in the real world, if you get into med school and you work hard, you become a doctor. And you usually become the kind of doc you have (self) selected to become. You get what you put in.



So, for those reading, find a school you like. Forget names (though alumni networks can be great, and should be considered). Make sure you get good info on what the school is like (talk to students) and, if you have a choice, go where you feel inspired.


Thats my thought at least.


(edti: I dont want to come across like there wont be any bumps along the road at a new school. There will be. But, there will be bumps at any school so I cant seem to justify that as a general argument)
 
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I doubt I would choose any DO school over UNTHSC-TCOM. (except maybe MSU, if the tuition was less).

-State supported (a rarity in the DO world)
-affiliated with a decent sized public university (a rarity in the DO world)
-most NIH funding of any DO school
-most paid faculty of any DO school
-solid rotations
-high USMLE pass rate
-"The crown jewel of DO schools" -former AOA president

TCOM is honestly one of the few DO schools that can seriously compete with MD schools.


TCOM is a great school. But, UNT (the affiliated university) isn't a big deal. OSU or MSU is a much bigger, more prominent school. But, that doesn't give me much. Their rotations are solid, but not as good as NSU or MU-COM, and same goes for NIH funding. (BTW Nova is now has the most NIH funding, but, as the Dean there said..."its not really a focus, just gets the name out." Faculty at OSU and MU-COM are also more impressive. USMLE pass rate is a total non issue (unless its super low or super high. Its just high at TCOM, like at many other schools). As for the crown jewel? Ok. Not sure what that meant then, or what youd like it to mean now. It wasnt that long ago that the AOA was pretty upset with the trouble being stirred up at TCOM (DO/MD proposal).

So, moral of it all: TCOM, OSU, MU-COM, SOMA, NOVA, MSU, etc. You cant really pick one and say this is the best. We've had this conversation here so many times its almost funny. Almost, except for people still buy into it.

I can tell you why I chose MU-COM over, OSU, NSU, SOMA, TCOM and others...but that doesnt mean everyone should. It means, if you value what I do, you might make the same decision.


while general tiers do exist among DO schools, the specific rankings that keep trying to show up here are just silly notions based on buzz words and misunderstanding. Or maybe some super stealthy recruiting/PR from school reps! :D
 
I doubt I would choose any DO school over UNTHSC-TCOM. (except maybe MSU, if the tuition was less).

-State supported (a rarity in the DO world)
-affiliated with a decent sized public university (a rarity in the DO world)
-most NIH funding of any DO school
-most paid faculty of any DO school
-solid rotations
-high USMLE pass rate
-"The crown jewel of DO schools" -former AOA president

TCOM is honestly one of the few DO schools that can seriously compete with MD schools.

Most established DO schools have solid rotations. I think board exam pass rate should not be an issue at all, because it is the student who is responsible for studying.
 
its still part of TMDSAS...but its really cheap to apply to.

And, for the comments about it being cheap...it is. But the HPSP pays for my tuition so thats not really a consideration.

In almost every case I fully agree that a sig cheaper school is the best route for anyone.



Nice try other school adcom. ;) Their tuition is average...but again, it seems like you might have missed that I am going for the HPSP, so tuition isn't a consideration anyway.



This has always been a weak gen argument to shy away from a program. Whether its a new or an "established" school, they are all in flux. Curriculum and staffing change...especially right now. There is a certain established school right now that is having trouble keeping teachers around because they are wanting to slowly convert to systems based curriculum. PS change is usually a good thing.

To be specific, a curriculum can be tried and true...but old. You cant stand still in medicine or education. In fact, practically every school right now is overhauling their curriculum to answer the Carnegie report (go systems based). The faculty at MU-COM have more combined experience than any DO school I know currently. Last I checked they had more NBOME faculty than any other school. (MSU was up there too). Those are the people who write and review the Boards. So, I feel like the academics will be pretty top notch. Just because a school or program is new, doesn't mean the faculty just got their PhDs, lol.


Clinical years are the ones you have to make sure are lined up. The third and fourth year at MU-COM will be at places who have trained medical students for decades. So, again, the generic argument doesn't fit here either. Im not sure if any DO school has a better network of training hospitals. Not sure what else to say except, look at all the schools you'd like and if you find something better than what MU-COM has let me know. If you find yourself thinking, I dont know what MU-COM, or other schools, have 3rd and 4th year...then maybe you aren't ready for this conversation ;)

I have found that people dont like to really research their schools, so they rely on a name. That works sometimes. Sometimes not. If you think about the schools with recent rotation problems they have been in newer and more established schools.(ie PNWU & Midwestern) If you look at board scores/matching for schools they have been good at newer and established schools. )i.e. RVU, TouroNV & DMU).


I dont think I feel the same entitlement to scholarship as you express. It'd be nice, but it doesn't really happen at DO schools.


This isnt law school where your school is your ceiling. SDN likes to rank and worry and pontificate...but in the real world, if you get into med school and you work hard, you become a doctor. And you usually become the kind of doc you have (self) selected to become. You get what you put in.



So, for those reading, find a school you like. Forget names (though alumni networks can be great, and should be considered). Make sure you get good info on what the school is like (talk to students) and, if you have a choice, go where you feel inspired.


Thats my thought at least.


(edti: I dont want to come across like there wont be any bumps along the road at a new school. There will be. But, there will be bumps at any school so I cant seem to justify that as a general argument)

What exactly were your connections to Texas or TCOM? I mean I have no connection to Texas other than the fact that potentially my parents may relocate to Houston eventually. Is it worth applying?
 
What exactly were your connections to Texas or TCOM? I mean I have no connection to Texas other than the fact that potentially my parents may relocate to Houston eventually. Is it worth applying?

Well, to be vague, I have family (in law) there. TCOM, and OSU, have more than 90% of each class from their state. So, you really have to express your connection to that state in your essays. And I even wrote letters of interest for those two schools. I may have been helped by going to BYU for undergrad, as they seem to like its students.

And yes, I think it's worth applying to. It's a great school. It's always tough to explain why you didn't choose a school without sounding like you didn't like it. TCOM was a great school, IMO.

Something to consider, they don't do grade replacement and they do like higher stats. You can make up for lower GPA with higher MCAT (as was my case) and vice versa, but especially being out of state, you won't get in with average stats.

I have a couple friends who go there now and they are generally pleased with the normal complaints if this or that. But the facilities and area are nice and they have a good no nonsense attitude that I think would resonate with you (or at least my online impression of you ;) )

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info later
 
Well, to be vague, I have family (in law) there. TCOM, and OSU, have more than 90% of each class from their state. So, you really have to express your connection to that state in your essays. And I even wrote letters of interest for those two schools. I may have been helped by going to BYU for undergrad, as they seem to like its students.

And yes, I think it's worth applying to. It's a great school. It's always tough to explain why you didn't choose a school without sounding like you didn't like it. TCOM was a great school, IMO.

Something to consider, they don't do grade replacement and they do like higher stats. You can make up for lower GPA with higher MCAT (as was my case) and vice versa, but especially being out of state, you won't get in with average stats.

I have a couple friends who go there now and they are generally pleased with the normal complaints if this or that. But the facilities and area are nice and they have a good no nonsense attitude that I think would resonate with you (or at least my online impression of you ;) )

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info later

I think most DO schools really like BYU grads, for some reason.
 
Guys please stay on topic....NYCOM v ATSU-SOMA. Other schools are irrelevant to this discussion (although the TCOM info was interesting, you need a DO letter to apply there)
 
Guys please stay on topic....NYCOM v ATSU-SOMA. Other schools are irrelevant to this discussion (although the TCOM info was interesting, you need a DO letter to apply there)

yeah, threads rarely stay "on topic" for 5 pages...



But, I've found that the best way to change the topic of a thread is to post about content youd like to see. It's what Ghandi would have done. ;)

Be the change you would like to see, on SDN. :D
 
soo back to SOMA..

I looked up a few of the CHC's and the services they offer and I only saw family practice, internal med, and the occasional ED. So where do students go to learn about the other specialties like surgery, or even GI and urology? Would you have to travel away (either a few hours or across the country) to do a rotation? Or are there hospitals right next door you can do those rotations at without having to travel all over?
 
soo back to SOMA..

I looked up a few of the CHC's and the services they offer and I only saw family practice, internal med, and the occasional ED. So where do students go to learn about the other specialties like surgery, or even GI and urology? Would you have to travel away (either a few hours or across the country) to do a rotation? Or are there hospitals right next door you can do those rotations at without having to travel all over?

Current and former students will be able to answer this better than I, but from what I understand, it kind of depends in your CHC... Tucson students for example rotate at U of A University Hospital right there in Tucson. Also, Brooklyn's CHC is part of a large full-service hospital. Other CHCs will have you traveling more, but you'll be getting all required rotations one way or another. Also, the student will end up having the option of setting up a lot of their own rotations.
 
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