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Going to an international med school is not some crazy new way you have found to be a doctor and shortcut the process in the US... There's a reason why everyone applies to US MD and DO schools, because going abroad to study medicine is a poor decision if you want to practice in the US. But go ahead and do it, report back so we have yet another cautionary example!I'm actually ok with it being 6 years. I have noticed they have a lengthy summer break unlike our US schools. I can see this time being spent travelling like the rest of the Europe.
Let me tell you about my current situation so you can have some insight before giving your opinion blindly. I'm currently a pre-med, and have completed my Biology (both A's), Gen Chems (both A's), O-Chem (both A's), and my physics (both.... B's). I'm currently planning on taking the MCAT next summer around August. Where I'm planning to study/prepare for the MCAT for that entire summer break (treat it like a job type deal). To be honest I test well, and I have little doubt that I will obtain less than a 31-ish... I could be totally wrong, but for the moment lets assume I get an average maturation score. I get along with every professor I've had (to safe to say I'm friends with my professors, and the PhD's I'm under doing research). So I have little worries about my interviews. I'm 27 years old, and have been married for a couple of years.
As I've been formulating a list of schools to apply to in my head, I have never once thought about international schools. The breakout of schools is 90% MD, 10% DO. This is a brash statement but MD>DO. Where in some cases DO equals or is greater than a sub-par MD program. But Caribbean in my mind is complete TRASH. But this is where I sound like a hypocrite to the IMG statement. I REALLY want to go to Charles University in Prague. I actually before last week was unaware of Eastern European medical schools. My wife, and I taught English in Lithuania for four months last year, and while on a break visited Prague. We completely fell in love with Prague, and the other places in the CZ. I have little anxiety/doubt about actually getting accepted to a U.S school, but 6 years studying in Prague sounds amazing! Plus their tuition is ~15K a year (and both US, and CZ gov websites say they available for student loans and accredited in the states). Also being in central Europe makes travel insanely easy! I've almost become crazy enough to decline an offer to my dream school (OHSU) even if I got accepted there (extremely unlikely) because OS tuition is $58k per year which would almost pay for the entire 6 years in Prague (I only have one instate school option). Does anyone want to talk some sense into me! I love the thought about studying in Europe, but can't stand the thought of being around peers that sucked at undergrad and couldn't be competitive
Why is it that everyone thinks their reason for going overseas for medical school is the ONE exception and that we will all agree with them and encourage them to go because of it?.....
If you want to practice and live over there then go to medical school over there. If you want to practice in the US then go to medical school in the US. It really is not that hard of a concept
US professors are highly sought-after speakers all over Europe.The OP just likes the idea of going to med school in CZ-R and doesn't want to consider the consequences. The comment about travelling around Europe during the long summer breaks is telling.
US professors are highly sought-after speakers all over Europe.
I have seen the world this way.
This is another path to travels in Europe as a physician...
I'm not denying it would be more difficult for me to match, but most of IMGs are people that couldn't make the cut. So if a student is bright in the states and studies in the CR I don't believe we are comparing apples to apples. I feel like many comments are almost copy and paste for any IMG post.
I can respect that.On paper, there would be nothing differentiating you from "people that couldn't make the cut."
Go to the Czech Republic if you actually have a long-term plan to move to the Czech Republic. Or go to med school in the United States, and then move wherever you want. But don't go to med school outside of the US and expect to smoothly come back like you never left.
If less than 50 IMG/FMG's applied to match for residency through the NRMP, that country was not included. I have never seen an applicant from a school in the CR. As PD's tend to be risk-averse, I can say with some basis in experience, that your odds from an unknown school (to the PD) are dramatically lower than your odds from any school in the US."telling"? You mean I'm concerned about burnout, and want a "healthy" balance between work, and spending time with my family. Yes that's exactly what I'm telling you. At least gyngyn gave a useful data based link. Sadly it doesn't have the data for the CR. Very few are based on hard data. Which I'm having a hard time finding data on the CR. While the the Caribbean is plentiful. So with that I can only assume most comments are just subjective to biased opinions. I'm not denying it would be more difficult for me to match, but most of IMGs are people that couldn't make the cut. So if a student is bright in the states and studies in the CR I don't believe we are comparing apples to apples. I feel like many comments are almost copy and paste for any IMG post.
"telling"? You mean I'm concerned about burnout, and want a "healthy" balance between work, and spending time with my family. Yes that's exactly what I'm telling you. At least gyngyn gave a useful data based link. Sadly it doesn't have the data for the CR. Very few are based on hard data. Which I'm having a hard time finding data on the CR. While the the Caribbean is plentiful. So with that I can only assume most comments are just subjective to biased opinions. I'm not denying it would be more difficult for me to match, but most of IMGs are people that couldn't make the cut. So if a student is bright in the states and studies in the CR I don't believe we are comparing apples to apples. I feel like many comments are almost copy and paste for any IMG post.
I'm actually ok with it being 6 years. I have noticed they have a lengthy summer break unlike our US schools. I can see this time being spent travelling like the rest of the Europe. I don't think I would practice in the CR, but I'm not against practicing in any of the Scandinavian countries.
Scandinavia would be Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. Also while in Stockholm I saw an American doctor that only spoke English. He said he mostly saw expats, business type people, and people like me (tourist).The CR isn't a part of the Scandinavian countries? Also, if you wind up practicing in any of those countries, you'll have to speak the native language. It's no easy task picking up a Slavic or Scandinavian language.
with gyngyn and your link making everything equal, an average USMLE step 1 of ~230 would give me almost 100% of matching in IM. While if we compile most of the charts and look at page 86 on chart IM-9 and we trim the fat (the people that continually don't make the cut) we land at 75%.... So yes you are correct in saying my chances aren't as good EVEN if I perform the same as my fellow Americans.The apples to apples is simply US-MD/DO grads vs IMG-US Citizen grads.
The 2014 match found a single IMG-US Citizen Charles University in Prague-Czech Republic graduate with spot via UCLA IMG Program at the Sutter Health Sacramento Family Medicine Residency Program. I do not know if this was via the Main Match or SOAP. No newer compiled data is available.
https://fm.mednet.ucla.edu/IMG/about/matches2014.asp
Are rotations the same as "electives"? I've heard Caribbean schools teach to the test. Do US schools teach to the test, or are they just better educated and therefor do better on the test?Lol schools in Carribs teach in English and prepare for Step 1. A school in CZ won't have a clue. Don't forget Caribb students do rotations in US, while you will practically have no way of rotating here. If you want to have a lot of mobility, this is not the career.
Are rotations the same as "electives"? I've heard Caribbean schools teach to the test. Do US schools teach to the test, or are they just better educated and therefor do better on the test?
Also I would Imagine the CR would have slightly better USMLE than Poland but I could be totally wrong.
http://pums.ump.edu.pl/about/pums-students-usmle-performance/
"telling"? You mean I'm concerned about burnout, and want a "healthy" balance between work, and spending time with my family. Yes that's exactly what I'm telling you. At least gyngyn gave a useful data based link. Sadly it doesn't have the data for the CR. Very few are based on hard data. Which I'm having a hard time finding data on the CR. While the the Caribbean is plentiful. So with that I can only assume most comments are just subjective to biased opinions. I'm not denying it would be more difficult for me to match, but most of IMGs are people that couldn't make the cut. So if a student is bright in the states and studies in the CR I don't believe we are comparing apples to apples. I feel like many comments are almost copy and paste for any IMG post.
In the spirit of posting videos of shaking some sense into you:
There's quite a bit of testimony from people who studied at Prague here at SDN. I suggest reading up on all of them before making a thread just because I think you'll find more info about the actual program...Are rotations the same as "electives"? I've heard Caribbean schools teach to the test. Do US schools teach to the test, or are they just better educated and therefor do better on the test?
Also I would Imagine the CR would have slightly better USMLE than Poland but I could be totally wrong.
http://pums.ump.edu.pl/about/pums-students-usmle-performance/
I'm reading in other threads that CU has a very high attrition rate... which is the result of their rigorous examinations (they talk a little about it in the thread I posted above). I'd be more worried about actually finishing the program than scoring high on the USMLE.
Are rotations the same as "electives"? I've heard Caribbean schools teach to the test.
It would be impossible in some without language proficiency and EU citizenship.It would be even harder to match into a Scandinavian country if you don't have any cultural ties
Let me tell you about my current situation so you can have some insight before giving your opinion blindly. I'm currently a pre-med, and have completed my Biology (both A's), Gen Chems (both A's), O-Chem (both A's), and my physics (both.... B's). I'm currently planning on taking the MCAT next summer around August. Where I'm planning to study/prepare for the MCAT for that entire summer break (treat it like a job type deal). To be honest I test well, and I have little doubt that I will obtain less than a 31-ish... I could be totally wrong, but for the moment lets assume I get an average maturation score. I get along with every professor I've had (to safe to say I'm friends with my professors, and the PhD's I'm under doing research). So I have little worries about my interviews. I'm 27 years old, and have been married for a couple of years.
As I've been formulating a list of schools to apply to in my head, I have never once thought about international schools. The breakout of schools is 90% MD, 10% DO. This is a brash statement but MD>DO. Where in some cases DO equals or is greater than a sub-par MD program. But Caribbean in my mind is complete TRASH. But this is where I sound like a hypocrite to the IMG statement. I REALLY want to go to Charles University in Prague. I actually before last week was unaware of Eastern European medical schools. My wife, and I taught English in Lithuania for four months last year, and while on a break visited Prague. We completely fell in love with Prague, and the other places in the CZ. I have little anxiety/doubt about actually getting accepted to a U.S school, but 6 years studying in Prague sounds amazing! Plus their tuition is ~15K a year (and both US, and CZ gov websites say they available for student loans and accredited in the states). Also being in central Europe makes travel insanely easy! I've almost become crazy enough to decline an offer to my dream school (OHSU) even if I got accepted there (extremely unlikely) because OS tuition is $58k per year which would almost pay for the entire 6 years in Prague (I only have one instate school option). Does anyone want to talk some sense into me! I love the thought about studying in Europe, but can't stand the thought of being around peers that sucked at undergrad and couldn't be competitive
Why is it that everyone thinks their reason for going overseas for medical school is the ONE exception and that we will all agree with them and encourage them to go because of it?.....
If you want to practice and live over there then go to medical school over there. If you want to practice in the US then go to medical school in the US. It really is not that hard of a concept
Heck you would be even better off going to LUCOM, which is arguably the worst medical school in the nation and it isn't even that close, at least you would match a nice community FM or IM program and have a couple of options.
Just me, but CNU = LUCOM in my book.
Back to the originally scheduled thread!
Thoracic Guy picked up on this as well, I see.
5. It sounds like you are more interested in a European Vacation than becoming a doctor.
The MedEdPath/Queensland program, as well as the Israeli Schools, typically have near US Match rates for a few reasons. UQ-Oschner does all its 3rd/4th year clinical rotations in 9 hospitals in the New Orleans area and elsewhere in Louisiana at Oschner Health System locations. So not only do students get the same level of clinical training that other US students have, they get the option to network for future residency choices. The first two years done at Queensland is part of a long standing, highly regarded university with a medical school adhering to the commonwealth standards of British and western medicine.
The Israeli schools are similar being part of Universities with medical schools and hospitals following standards of western medicine. Many of their students do rotations in the US, particularly New York, where these schools are approved by the New York State Department of Education for medical training.
While graduates of both these schools are considered IMGs, they effectively occupy a spot more like a US school when it comes to residency selection, particularly the Israeli schools. Even so, there has been a marked decline in some of the Israeli schools residency placements just in the past few years which may be do to the overall residency squeeze.
OP, complete this sentence:
If it sounds too good to be true it __will definitely be good and I should pursue it no matter how much it puts me at risk or how much my peers and mentors advise against it__.
California Northstate University, I believe.CNU?
California Northstate University, I believe.
It's a new MD program that's caught a lot of criticism it seems.
First for-profit MD school int he US in generations, and has done a number of shady things. Search for @gyngyn's comments on the subject.
Wow, 47 posts and nobody has pointed out the troll.
I stand corrected (all though I am currently sitting). My data compilation from last year was using early posting from Sackler that showed 45 that may have been reported matches. They in fact had 65 residency appointments for class of 2016, which would include main match and SOAP.
Really? Not doubting you but just by looking at Sackler and Technion's match list(BGU has always been hard to read since their class typically has a strong primary care interest), the quality of the matches seem consistent from year to year if you consider that they are small classes and matches will vary based on interest. Im curious what you are basing this on as I am considering Sackler.
MSIH has a lot of hot air on their web site. They are also very misleading in their advertising (getting a preliminary surgical position is hardly something to be proud of). Overall there is no reason for US student to go abroad and that applies to Israel (unless you have some personal reasons) and Australia (UQ is insanely expensive, especially for a PBL curriculum).
Sackler shows 64 placements on their website
"telling"? You mean I'm concerned about burnout, and want a "healthy" balance between work, and spending time with my family.