Dartmouth vs. University of Washington

[ruraldr]

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I looked back several years and don't see this comparison. I'm hoping that folks can lend their thoughts and help me make a decision.

For what it's worth--the cost is very similar and I like both Seattle and Hanover--so cost/location are less important factors.

I'm primarily interested in the difference in the pre-clinical and clinical experiences. Which school would better prepare me to do well on the boards? what is the difference in the student body? which school would better prepare me for residency?

If cost/location aren't factors then what else should I weigh?

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts!

I'm so torn...😕😕

 

[veaselhaufen]

I know nothing about the medical school but I thought the UW undergrad campus was the prettiest thing I've ever seen. Where do you do your M1 year? I think seattle is great!

 

[RoadRunner17]

If you want to end up on the west coast, go to UW. If you want to go to the east coast, go to DMS.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

If you want to end up on the west coast, go to UW. If you want to go to the east coast, go to DMS.

UW. It is awesome, great school, great facilities, and great everything.

 

[TheWhiteMamba]

As far as quality of the school and the opportunities it will make available to you there is NO QUESTION...UW is far superior to Dartmouth. Unless you have a full ride to Dartmouth, strong family ties, or an illegitimate child runnin around in the dark corners of Hanover you should go to Seattle. Better city, better medical school, end of story. Every year people turn down acceptances at Harvard, Hopkins, WashU, Stanford, you name it if they get into UW. Dartmouth is not a school to be losing sleep over...

 

[ruraldr]

As far as quality of the school and the opportunities it will make available to you there is NO QUESTION...UW is far superior to Dartmouth... better medical school, end of story.

WhiteMamba or others--I guess I'm looking for details about what it is about the UW that makes you feel it is superior to Dartmouth (beyond a preference for living in a city vs. a more rural enviornment).

Also--Roadrunner, do you feel that there is a big regional bias for residency placements? Your comment seems to support that...

Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far...

 

[qmcat]

I looked back several years and don't see this comparison. I'm hoping that folks can lend their thoughts and help me make a decision.

For what it's worth--the cost is very similar and I like both Seattle and Hanover--so cost/location are less important factors.

I'm primarily interested in the difference in the pre-clinical and clinical experiences. Which school would better prepare me to do well on the boards? what is the difference in the student body? which school would better prepare me for residency?

If cost/location aren't factors then what else should I weigh?

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts!

I'm so torn...😕😕

The biggest difference I see is the type of patients you will see when you do your clinical training. Dartmouth is kind of isolated and the patient population they serve in northern New England is more homogeneous. UW, on the other hand, will have a wider patient population where you can be exposed to more things and see more interesting cases.

From your username, I'm guessing you may be interested in rural medicine. In this case UW would be the better choice, seeing as they have multiple opportunities for rural medicine experience. You can check out their programs here:

http://depts.washington.edu/fammed/predoc/programs/ruop

http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/Education/WWAMI/Medical+School.htm

In my opinion, UW has tons more opportunities than Dartmouth. But, they are both great schools. Good luck with your decision.

 

[franniemeow07]

I'm sure you already know this OP, but I think the most unique trait about the UW Med education (and the one that will have the most impact on your clinical training) is the 3rd/4th year rotations throughout the WWAMI area. This is truly a unique feature, and most students will elect to do this, because you will get a huge variety experiences in both urban Seattle, possibly at a military base, and of course the more rural hospitals in Wyoming and Alaska. None of the 6 schools that I interviewed at personally had this kind of thing, so I know it's pretty unique, though I think 1 or 2 other schools in the country may have something similar (UNC or somewhere comes to find). Not sure if Dartmouth has anything like that.

 

[ruraldr]

The biggest difference I see is the type of patients you will see when you do your clinical training. Dartmouth is kind of isolated and the patient population they serve in northern New England is more homogeneous. UW, on the other hand, will have a wider patient population where you can be exposed to more things and see more interesting cases.

From those that have done medical school/started residency--does this exposure better prepare you for residency? How much does exposure to "interesting cases" help you learn as a medical student?

 

[RoadRunner17]

It'll be easier to stay in the area after medical school, not saying it's impossible to move around but schools tend to have a stronger regional reputation than a national reputation (although UW's national reputation is very strong). PD's usually consider regional med schools as more of a known quantity.

 

[ruraldr]

It'll be easier to stay in the area after medical school, not saying it's impossible to move around but schools tend to have a stronger regional reputation than a national reputation (although UW's national reputation is very strong). PD's usually consider regional med schools as more of a known quantity.

Thanks for the thoughts so far roadrunner...do you think that the point above about the potentially less diverse patient population to be seen in clerkships at dartmouth would negate the strength of the regional reputation?

I grew up in the east and think that I will want to eventually end up there--but am not 100% sure.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

UW..hands down, Dartmouth does not even compare (no offense dartmouth students)

 

[RoadRunner17]

Thanks for the thoughts so far roadrunner...do you think that the point above about the potentially less diverse patient population to be seen in clerkships at dartmouth would negate the strength of the regional reputation?

I grew up in the east and think that I will want to eventually end up there--but am not 100% sure.

I really don't see why that would be a problem. It's a huge selling point for medical schools but I think the true benefit is when you do your residency and spend every waking hour seeing this patient "diversity". As a med student you're there to learn the basics of medicine, and last I heard everyone's bodies have the same physiology and anatomy for the most part. Yes, patient diversity can factor into your medical education but I personally don't put a huge emphasis on it as some others like to do.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Imma have to humbly disagree with mr roadrunner on this point. Yes its true their is such thing as regional bias, but I think when we are talking about top schools, and especially top 10 (of which UW is)..that it really doesnt matter. UW has a stellar reputation across the country, and you would be able to match anywhere and in anything going to school there. IF you are really worried about ending up on the east coast then do a few away rotations out there.

Ask yourself this too, would you really wanna spend 4 years in Hanover, NH??? Yuck

 

[ruraldr]

Thanks Chubby,

I actually don't have any problems with Hanover vs. Seattle--I like them both for very different reasons.

I guess that I'm trying to better understand what factors lead to the enhanced reputation of the UW vs. Dartmouth--and if those factors actually matter to me or not.

It seems that rankings are based mostly on residency director thoughts and research dollar amounts given to the school--the research money amounts I expect to be very different given the size differences between the two schools. I guess I'm interested in what the reasons are why residency directors would rank UW higher than Dartmouth.

Not sure if anyone on SDN can address this, but am feeling like if I had a better understanding of this issue then it would help me make my decision.

Sorry for such a strange post!😳

 

[RoadRunner17]

Imma have to humbly disagree with mr roadrunner on this point. Yes its true their is such thing as regional bias, but I think when we are talking about top schools, and especially top 10 (of which UW is)..that it really doesnt matter. UW has a stellar reputation across the country, and you would be able to match anywhere and in anything going to school there. IF you are really worried about ending up on the east coast then do a few away rotations out there.

Ask yourself this too, would you really wanna spend 4 years in Hanover, NH??? Yuck

I did say UW has a great national reputation so it isn't as big of a problem. But it's probably still going to be easier to match east from DMS.

 

[blackbird11384]

Thanks Chubby,

I actually don't have any problems with Hanover vs. Seattle--I like them both for very different reasons.

I guess that I'm trying to better understand what factors lead to the enhanced reputation of the UW vs. Dartmouth--and if those factors actually matter to me or not.

It seems that rankings are based mostly on residency director thoughts and research dollar amounts given to the school--the research money amounts I expect to be very different given the size differences between the two schools. I guess I'm interested in what the reasons are why residency directors would rank UW higher than Dartmouth.

Not sure if anyone on SDN can address this, but am feeling like if I had a better understanding of this issue then it would help me make my decision.

Sorry for such a strange post!😳

The rankings largely operate within an "echo chamber" as they call it. The schools that are high on the list for whatever reason (typically initially because of their research prowess) then are regarded the highest. The only way that each survey respondent knows how to answer each residency assessment survey is by looking at the previous years rankings that are sent out each year with the new surveys. It's a feed forward system if a school rises in the rankings because of some reason (more research, gaming the rankings, whatever), so years after this rise, the assessment scores will likely rise as well.

I would say you shouldn't put too much weight in the residency assessment scores in US News (they probably don't have that high of a completion rate on those surveys anyways), especially when considering two schools that are arguably very very good schools. I would put even less weight in the peer assessment ratings (mostly politics driven, and some schools wanting to see other schools drop, or rise for whatever reasons).

If I were you, I would pick Dartmouth, just because I want to stay on the East Coast for school. Clearly lots of people feel that UW is the superior school. This is probably based on its research funding, arguably better national reputation for medicine (I would argue Dartmouth has the better reputation as a University as a whole nationally), and its better hospital system. But its not like Dartmouth is a slouch in these areas. Its not as cut and dry as some people would have you believe with two very good schools. I really don't think you can go wrong with either. But then again I never interviewed at either, so I can only speak about the rankings themselves.

 

[ruraldr]

so--from what I've gathered thus far--there is a regional bias to residency selection, and when selecting between two good schools one should consider where you would like to end up geographically for residency.

Blackbird--are there other factors you would weigh (given you are now in medical school are there things that you think really make or break your current medical school experience that I should be considering?)

 

[sunset823]

If I had the remotest possibility of being accepted into UW, I would have gone there in a heartbeat - awesome school, and I love everything about Seattle (yes, including the rain).

However, I think in your situation Dartmouth is a better option - if you want to do rural medicine in the East Coast, it is a very different kind of experience than out west, and Dartmouth is definitely close to the more rural areas of New England. I think both schools are good, and if you don't care about research, UW's (significant) advantage there doesn't really matter.

 

[blackbird11384]

so--from what I've gathered thus far--there is a regional bias to residency selection, and when selecting between two good schools one should consider where you would like to end up geographically for residency.

Blackbird--are there other factors you would weigh (given you are now in medical school are there things that you think really make or break your current medical school experience that I should be considering?)

I really can't specifically about either of these two schools. I don't know anything about them. But one thing I will say is that location should be an important thing to consider. All these pre-meds on here insist you will have no time to do anything outside of school work 🙄. That's just not true. At least it wasn't for me, and most every one of my classmates. I'm not saying you should pick the school with the craziest night life. I am saying you should consider the location when picking a school, and what it has to offer. So if that means you like the outdoors that Dartmouth has to offer, then go for it. I don't really know UW's surrounding area so I can't give an example for them. You get what I mean. There is more to medical school that studying all the time. Thats just the majority of it 😀.

 

[ruraldr]

I actually feel like I know lots of facts about the two schools (although if those out there who are knowledgable about the schools want to share more I'd love it)--I'm not sure how to weigh the facts I know.

Does amount of time in class matter? Does the test format matter? Does the timing of boards matter? Does the length of clerkships matter?

These are the kinds of things that I see schools talking about but I don't know how to weigh these differences.

I really appreciate everyone's help so far.🙄

 

[qmcat]

so--from what I've gathered thus far--there is a regional bias to residency selection, and when selecting between two good schools one should consider where you would like to end up geographically for residency.

Blackbird--are there other factors you would weigh (given you are now in medical school are there things that you think really make or break your current medical school experience that I should be considering?)

You should also keep in mind that public/state universities are going to have more people stay in the area for residency versus private schools. Most of the students accepted to a public or state university hold a residence in the state and want to stay in that state or area.

If you look through the 2009 Match Lists thread ( http://more.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=611840 ) you'll see that there is a general pattern where private schools' match lists are more scattered across the nation than public schools' match lists.

From my point of view, it's not so much residency regional bias, but more of where the students want to stay for residency based on their personal living situations, etc.

 

[TheWhiteMamba]

Look ruraldr, I know I am coming off blunt but I really feel strongly about this. Your name says ruraldr...UW is #1 in rural medicine and family medicine and rightfully so with the unprecedented experience you will get with the WWAMI program during summers and in the 3rd and 4th year. Well what if you change your mind in med school and want to do academic medicine or a competitive specialty? No problem...UW has some of the best academic medical centers in the country and is the easily a top 3 biomed research school in the country (add hopkins and harvard to that list). The claim above that Dartmouth is a better overall school...I laugh at that. Top to bottom UW is better than Dartmouth. Only if you strongly prefer the east coast culture should you continue to consider Dartmouth.

 

[blackbird11384]

Look ruraldr, I know I am coming off blunt but I really feel strongly about this. Your name says ruraldr...UW is #1 in rural medicine and family medicine and rightfully so with the unprecedented experience you will get with the WWAMI program during summers and in the 3rd and 4th year. Well what if you change your mind in med school and want to do academic medicine or a competitive specialty? No problem...UW has some of the best academic medical centers in the country and is the easily a top 3 biomed research school in the country (add hopkins and harvard to that list). The claim above that Dartmouth is a better overall school...I laugh at that. Top to bottom UW is better than Dartmouth. Only if you strongly prefer the east coast culture should you continue to consider Dartmouth.

I never said Dartmouth is a better overall school. I said that I think it has the better reputation as a whole (i'm basically saying I think Dartmouth has more of a brand name). This is just my opinion, I could be completely wrong. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was crapping on UW.

 

[Handy388]

I never said Dartmouth is a better overall school. I said that I think it has the better reputation as a whole (i'm basically saying I think Dartmouth has more of a brand name). This is just my opinion, I could be completely wrong. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was crapping on UW.

UW has a far stronger brand name than Dartmouth med.

 

[blackbird11384]

UW has a far stronger brand name than Dartmouth med.

I completely agree. But I was saying the university as a whole. Dartmouth's being an ivy league institution is not just a fact you can throw away. I think more people will think Dartmouth is the stronger name. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers here. Maybe it's just because I'm from the east coast that I feel this way. But I think that one the east coast at least, Dartmouth will have the better name (maybe not the better name for medicine, as I said).

I have no vested interest in either of these schools heh, I don't know why I am even defending my views. But I think the OP has two great choices.

 

[ruraldr]

Look ruraldr, I know I am coming off blunt but I really feel strongly about this. Your name says ruraldr...UW is #1 in rural medicine and family medicine and rightfully so with the unprecedented experience you will get with the WWAMI program during summers and in the 3rd and 4th year. Well what if you change your mind in med school and want to do academic medicine or a competitive specialty? No problem...UW has some of the best academic medical centers in the country and is the easily a top 3 biomed research school in the country (add hopkins and harvard to that list). The claim above that Dartmouth is a better overall school...I laugh at that. Top to bottom UW is better than Dartmouth. Only if you strongly prefer the east coast culture should you continue to consider Dartmouth.

Thanks for sharing your passionate feelings about the UWSOM mamba and others--I appeciate the links that qmcat provided and frannie's thoughts on the UW (I recognize you from the UW secondary thread). I hadn't seen such a thorough link to the RU/OP program in the past so enjoyed reading through that a bit more...

I guess what I'm trying to better understand is the "why" behind the reputation and rankings--what about the WWAMI program makes it better then the clerkship variety that Dartmouth offers (across multiple new England states, FL, AZ, AK, and CA), what about the RU/OP makes it better then a shadowing experience set up in any rural area...

I think both these schools are pretty great--and would love to have something more concrete to make the decision on then rankings/reputation that I don't fully understand.

You guys are all great for weighing in on this very difficult decision for me.

 

[WaterBird]

I think both schools are good, and if you don't care about research, UW's (significant) advantage there doesn't really matter.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with this last bit. I was all set to ignore research rankings because I don't want to do biomed research (and I'm assuming the OP doesn't either), and it was explained to me that I shouldn't ignore them because research ranking attracts the best professors (who in turn attract more research dollars) and top profs also attract top students. The human resources at a top 10 school are not something to disregard.

I think Dartmouth is a great place too, but besides an eventual desire to end up on the E. coast, you haven't really mentioned anything drawing you to DMS over UW.

 

[franniemeow07]

Here is the 2006 UW Match List...

http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/education/uwschoolofmedicine/match2006.htm

A large majority place in Washington, followed closely by California and a few other states on the West Coast. Not saying at all that it's impossible to match back at the East Coast, just saying it's something to consider...

 

[franniemeow07]

Oh, and I also should mention that I am also mystified as to the exact reasons why UW is ranked so highly..IN TERMS OF MEDICAL EDUCATION THAT IS NOT RURAL-MEDICINE CENTERED. Honestly, most med students will not be pursuing physician-scientist careers so I think that the +++ research money only has a marginal impact on the quality of day-to-day medical education. If your interest is in rural medicine, UW is no question one of the best places to train, so in that respect it is one of the top places to learn rural medicine. BUT, if you are the average med student who doesn't have a dying passion for rural medicine, and who most likely will want to practice in an urban area after graduation, it's harder to pick out exactly what makes UW such an "amazing" school. The curriculum is traditional, the clinical training is on the plus side of average, the board scores aren't significantly higher than any other school. Please feel free to correct me if you have concrete information saying otherwise.

I also think that the exclusivity factor contributes to its enhanced reputation from places other than the WWAMI states. Pre-meds will look at the top 10 ranking from afar, realize that they have 0.1%chance of getting an interview as out-of-staters, and BINGO it equals really amazing med school in their minds. But what is that impression based on? Besides the research money and the rural medical training? I would welcome any additional information people might have.

 

[ruraldr]

bump--in case any one else has thoughts to share...🙂

 

[fsjune2009]

What are the chances a california resident with a 31 MCAT and 3.98 GPA could get in to UWSOM?

 

[ruraldr]

My understanding is that for out of state folks (even more then for in state folks) they are looking for evidence of a long term commitment to underserved care/desire to serve underserved populations in the future.

I think this matters far more than GPA/MCAT or anything else to the UW.

with your application.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

My understanding is that for out of state folks (even more then for in state folks) they are looking for evidence of a long term commitment to underserved care/desire to serve underserved populations in the future.

I think this matters far more than GPA/MCAT or anything else to the UW.

with your application.

So, did you finally decide between these two?

 

[ruraldr]

Dartmouth. 😀

Went with my gut. Best of luck to all of you in the next year and thanks for your thoughts. 🙂

 

[Teneo]

Dartmouth. 😀

Went with my gut. Best of luck to all of you in the next year and thanks for your thoughts. 🙂

Well, personally, I respect your decision, but I would have taken UW...it's my dream school. Ranked #1 for primary care and #6 in research...

Dartmouth is an excellent school, no rational person could deny that...but compared to UW, it's pretty average.

Regardless, though, Dartmouth will get you places, and I hope you enjoy your time there and your future as a doctor. Good luck/may the force be with you. 🙂

 

[blackbird11384]

Well, personally, I respect your decision, but I would have taken UW...it's my dream school. Ranked #1 for primary care and #6 in research...

Dartmouth is an excellent school, no rational person could deny that...but compared to UW, it's pretty average.

Regardless, though, Dartmouth will get you places, and I hope you enjoy your time there and your future as a doctor. Good luck/may the force be with you. 🙂

Was this post even the least bit useful for the OP? He/she made his/her choice, and they are happy. Have fun at Dartmouth ruraldr!

 

[Teneo]

Was this post even the least bit useful for the OP? He/she made his/her choice, and they are happy. Have fun at Dartmouth ruraldr!

Does it have to be useful? I was just musing/rambling. But you're probably right, at that point I may as well not bother commenting.

 

[RapplixGmed]

What are the chances a california resident with a 31 MCAT and 3.98 GPA could get in to UWSOM?

My understanding is that it would be exactly equal to zero chance unless you are from a disadvantaged background, give a strong promise to practice with an underserved population, or applying to the MD/PhD program.

I was an MSTP applicant and got a rejection letter from the MD only program a few weeks after I submitted my AMCAS saying I was ineligible to apply due to being out of the WWAMI region.