Harvard vs. Duke

[yellowfish]

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I'm extremely, extremely lucky and grateful to have the choice between some fantastic programs, but I've been having a hard time making a final decision and would appreciate any helpful input.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm interested in as of yet. I could see myself doing something cross-disciplinary; entrepreneurship, public health, health administration, health policy, politics… As you can see I really haven't narrowed the list down much. To this extent, I'm planning on pursuing either a joint MBA or MPH. I could potentially do academic medicine as well although that isn't my primary goal right now. I'm interested in specialties that happen to be on the more competitive side of the spectrum.

I'm also holding acceptances at WashU (full scholarship), Johns Hopkins, and Yale; I'm open to anyone who wants to make a case for those, although as of now I've singled out Harvard and Duke (full scholarship) as my two frontrunner options. I'm attending second looks at Harvard, Duke, and WashU.

Thanks in advance!!!

Harvard
+Small merit scholarship worth ~10k
+Name recognition
+Better residency placement
+Much better academic position placement
+Stronger hospital affiliations (MGH, BWH) and clinical training
+Stronger dual degree options
+Larger, more developed professional network (business, public health, public policy, politics, etc.)
+Boston
+Proximity to other city hubs i.e. NYC
+Public transportation, no need for car
+Live in dormitory with other students
+More relaxed 2-year preclinical curriculum
+Absolutely beautiful medical campus

-Total cost ~235k (graduate with debt of ~80k)
-Would take 5 years for dual degree plus extra cost/debt burden
-Long distance relationship
-Possibly more intense and competitive Northern/New England culture (?)
-Cold weather

Duke
+Full-tuition merit scholarship worth ~200k
+Total cost ~100k (graduate with no debt)
+Close proximity to girlfriend and family
+Possibility of dual degree in 4 years (only MPH, MBA requires 5 years)
+Built-in research year (would make me more competitive for specialization)
+Smaller class size
+National-level sports teams (namely basketball)
+Undergraduate campus physically attached
+Brand new medical education center
+Fair weather
+More off-campus housing options
+Healthy admissions culture and emphasis on personality traits
+Home-institution advantage for long-term life in NC (could conceivably want that in the future)
+Suburban… I can actually park places

-More intense preclinical year
-Durham
-No on-campus housing
-Old, familiar environment
-More difficult to study for Step 1 (problems with studying during dual degree, certain away research programs - also more removed from preclinical education, but closer to clinical so +/- here)
-It's Duke
-Duke=puke
-I'd be a Dookie
-They use the wrong shade of blue

 

[GrabSlamBoot]

#FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS















kidding, go to Duke, be my friend!

 

[nysegop]

Who would give up a full medical scholarship?
Go Duke!

 

[yellowfish]

go to Duke, be my friend!

Only if you'll be my roommate 😍

 

[cest la vie]

Proximity to gf/family and full scholarship?

You'd be silly to turn down Duke for Harvard.

 

[Cinclus]

Duke it out.

Also, congrats on all of your fantastic options.

 

[somefun]

.

 

[nysegop]

harvard will be better for your future aspirations as a physician (not exactly as a family man). so i would say harvard

How will going to harvard help? It really depends on what you want to do. I understand Duke is great for aspiring surgeons.

 

[yos]

It comes down to how ambitious you are. Duke is still very well known and will get you places but depending on your long term goals, Harvard might be worth it.

The fact that Harvard is still in the running makes me think you are ambitious enough to take the sacrifice of debt and possibly being a little less happy for 4 years to achieve your long term goals.

Personally, I would go to Duke but then again I'm the type of person Duke/Harvard wouldn't even consider in the first place.

 

[MilkIsGood]

does the 150k price of harvard include the mba cost? If so, go to harvard.

 

[prado]

How will going to harvard help? It really depends on what you want to do. I understand Duke is great for aspiring surgeons.

What schools did you get into? Oh wait, you haven't even graduated high school yet...🙄

 

[yellowfish]

does the 150k price of harvard include the mba cost? If so, go to harvard.

No, it doesn't - and the cost is actually 320k for 4 years, but I would accrue about 150k of debt

 

[GrabSlamBoot]

Don't listen to us schmucks! You had the best app of this year so you would know best. Although I did figure out your true identity through some google detective work!

This is creepy

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I truly don't think the difference between Duke and Harvard is worth 200k dollars. Both names give you the wow factor. in my mind its an easy choice, every doc always says go where's cheapest. the fact that you can go to Duke for free is unbelievable. take it and run! Congrats man, you're a superstar haha

 

[Neuromuscular]

Geez! You have some incredible options. The good news, you can't make a bad choice. Both schools are going to provide an awesome education. You've touched on most of the big talking points so my comment may not contribute much. How much does prestige matter to you? Let's be honest, it matters at least a little to all of us. I imagine both schools are very highly respected in the medical/scientific community. The education provided by the two schools may even be considered equal in the medical community. However, if you ask 100 random people that aren't involved in healthcare, how many will say Harvard is more (significant with lovely p values) prestigious than Duke? I bet the vast majority would think that degree from Harvard is far more impressive. In your future, most if not all of your patients will not be members of the medical community. They may view that degree from Harvard as a big deal. It's hard to overcome that name "Harvard".

That may matter very little to you, but I think it's something worth considering. If that's important to you, is it worth the money?

 

[somefun]

.

 

[deleted127837]

You want to go to Duke. You don't need us to tell you it's ok.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Have you tried using your scholarships to Duke and Wash as a way to leverage a better scholarship from Harvard? I have heard of people doing this successfully. I'd look into it for sure.

 

[lollerskater]

Geez! You have some incredible options. The good news, you can't make a bad choice. Both schools are going to provide an awesome education. You've touched on most of the big talking points so my comment may not contribute much. How much does prestige matter to you? Let's be honest, it matters at least a little to all of us. I imagine both schools are very highly respected in the medical/scientific community. The education provided by the two schools may even be considered equal in the medical community. However, if you ask 100 random people that aren't involved in healthcare, how many will say Harvard is more (significant with lovely p values) prestigious than Duke? I bet the vast majority would think that degree from Harvard is far more impressive. In your future, most if not all of your patients will not be members of the medical community. They may view that degree from Harvard as a big deal. It's hard to overcome that name "Harvard".

That may matter very little to you, but I think it's something worth considering. If that's important to you, is it worth the money?

Wat. I have never met someone who actually cared about where their doctor went to medical school.. Is this a joke? Medicine != Law

 

[skais595]

I'm also crossing a fabled sports rivalry for med school.... I feel you on that! Not crossing over, just going to the wrong school for the sports team I want to cheer for!! 😱

 

[yellowfish]

You want to go to Duke. You don't need us to tell you it's ok.

Define "want". I've listed the reasons each school is desirable to me. If you want to reduce the discussion to "wants", then I "want" to attend both schools.

 

[yellowfish]

This is creepy

+1 Also a little bit unsettled!

 

[yellowfish]

I truly don't think the difference between Duke and Harvard is worth 200k dollars. Both names give you the wow factor. in my mind its an easy choice, every doc always says go where's cheapest. the fact that you can go to Duke for free is unbelievable. take it and run! Congrats man, you're a superstar haha

Geez! You have some incredible options. The good news, you can't make a bad choice. Both schools are going to provide an awesome education. You've touched on most of the big talking points so my comment may not contribute much. How much does prestige matter to you? Let's be honest, it matters at least a little to all of us. I imagine both schools are very highly respected in the medical/scientific community. The education provided by the two schools may even be considered equal in the medical community. However, if you ask 100 random people that aren't involved in healthcare, how many will say Harvard is more (significant with lovely p values) prestigious than Duke? I bet the vast majority would think that degree from Harvard is far more impressive. In your future, most if not all of your patients will not be members of the medical community. They may view that degree from Harvard as a big deal. It's hard to overcome that name "Harvard".

That may matter very little to you, but I think it's something worth considering. If that's important to you, is it worth the money?

Thanks for the input guys. I think I'm more concerned about the doors that would be open or closed to me in terms of career paths than how I would be viewed as a clinician from either school. The name is much less important to me than what the institution enables me to do. If I knew I wanted to be a 100% clinician I think Duke would be the easy choice but that isn't the case and I don't want to leave with any regrets at the end of the day, career-wise or personal.

Have you tried using your scholarships to Duke and Wash as a way to leverage a better scholarship from Harvard? I have heard of people doing this successfully. I'd look into it for sure.

The official policy of HMS is that aid is completely need-based. The scholarship I received was from Harvard University, not the medical school. I highly doubt this would be effective, but I may try it since I don't have anything to lose. Thanks!

 

[somefun]

.

 

[deleted127837]

Define "want". I've listed the reasons each school is desirable to me. If you want to reduce the discussion to "wants", then I "want" to attend both schools.

Harvard's almost universally acclaimed to be the better school. This topic only exists because you prefer Duke and want to choose it over the "better school" - otherwise you'd just be going to Harvard. You list the reasons you want to make that decision seemingly so that everyone here can agree with them. Your general rhetoric indicates you "want" to choose Duke, but are worried you're making the wrong decision.

That's how I would define "want." I don't see the point in making the decision more complicated than it is.

 

[yellowfish]

Harvard's almost universally acclaimed to be the better school. This topic only exists because you prefer Duke. That's how I would define "want." I don't see the point in making the decision more complicated than it is.

Perhaps it's that simple for you, or you're just a better decisionmaker. Either way, I'm happy for you, but it doesn't resolve the situation for me.

 

[lollerskater]

Harvard's almost universally acclaimed to be the better school. This topic only exists because you prefer Duke and want to choose it over the "better school" - otherwise you'd just be going to Harvard. You list the reasons you want to make that decision seemingly so that everyone here can agree with them. Your general rhetoric indicates you "want" to choose Duke, but are worried you're making the wrong decision.

That's how I would define "want." I don't see the point in making the decision more complicated than it is.

I think you're my favorite person on this forum.

Also, I have to imagine that this thread hasn't been helpful in the least. Is a poll of (semi) anonymous internet users really going to help you decide?

In fact, are any of these Prestigious School 1 vs Prestigious School 2 threads actually helpful?

 

[deleted127837]

Perhaps it's that simple for you, or you're just a better decisionmaker. Either way, I'm happy for you, but it doesn't resolve the situation for me.

That's diplomatic of you, but I'm talking about inherent decision making. I just think it's highly unlikely you don't already know what you will do. (edit: not want, but will) Most people who make it this far already have a decision made - the hard part is rationalizing it and making it the "ok" decision.

Looking at your list, I think that, let's call it subconscious, decision is in favor of Duke. Your negatives about Duke strike me as a mixture of jest and desperation for reasons to not choose it. Perhaps a better way to put it would be that you (want to) want to choose Harvard, but for finances, family, and familiarity, you feel you will ultimately choose Duke. You don't want that decision to be wrong - you want it to be ok. Nobody asks for reassurance about choosing Harvard, after all. That's the feeling I get, but I could be wrong.

Either way, it's a matter of what matters to you more in the long run, and nobody can really answer that for you.

 

[ih371990]

It sounds like you've (OP) done some thinking already. I'm guessing you really just want some input for things that maybe you haven't thought of or havent had personal experience with.

So, I guess I'll just throw out there that the cold weather in Boston sucks. Big time. Transitioning from a tropical island to Boston for my undergrad was a mistake. I hated the weather Big Time. I prefer to have some sunshine in my life during winter. Im assuming the weathers better at Duke. But hey that's just me, and overall my experience was awesome and I've met awesome people so I guess I wouldn't change any of it. Maybe think about the lifestyle that comes with being at Duke vs. Harvard, if you haven't already. Sometimes little things in life makes a big difference to how enjoyable/happy you can be.

And what does your family and gf think about all this? Do they care if you're gonna be around or away?I know I missed my family cuz I probably only seen them about once a year when I was in college. And I'm doing Long D now, which sucks.

Anyway, awesome job and good luck choosing between two awesome schools!

 

[erutha95]

There is no question what the right decision is. Go to Duke (or Wash U). Prestige whoring to impress your grandmother and SDN pre-meds is not worth $200k. Going to a top-tier medical school other than Harvard will not limit your career in any way, and you will be much better off starting your career without huge loans.

Also, the weather sucks in Boston and the cost of living is way higher than in the research triangle.

 

[stevecoral155]

That's diplomatic of you, but I'm talking about inherent decision making. I just think it's highly unlikely you don't already know what you will do. (edit: not want, but will) Most people who make it this far already have a decision made - the hard part is rationalizing it and making it the "ok" decision.

Looking at your list, I think that, let's call it subconscious, decision is in favor of Duke. Your negatives about Duke strike me as a mixture of jest and desperation for reasons to not choose it. Perhaps a better way to put it would be that you (want to) want to choose Harvard, but for finances, family, and familiarity, you feel you will ultimately choose Duke. You don't want that decision to be wrong - you want it to be ok. Nobody asks for reassurance about choosing Harvard, after all. That's the feeling I get, but I could be wrong.

Either way, it's a matter of what matters to you more in the long run, and nobody can really answer that for you.

Bear, I went to undergrad at UNC, and from the looks of KDizzle he did too. It is a bad mistake indeed to underestimate the level of animosity toward that school eight miles away, especially during March Madness. Going to Duke for a picnic, much less four years of medical school, would trigger a full-blown identity crisis for me.

 

[nysegop]

What schools did you get into? Oh wait, you haven't even graduated high school yet...🙄

Please stop commenting on things you don't know.

http://education-portal.com/articles/Best_Colleges_for_Surgeons_List_of_Top_Medical_Schools.html
http://www.surgeryschools.com/top_school_rankings/index.html
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=627934
http://www.ehow.com/list_6569224_top-medical-schools-surgeons.html
http://medschool.duke.edu/education/office-student-affairs/duke-medical-students-celebrate-match-day

20% of duke grads do surgery.

Honestly people, being a high school student doesn't make me any less worthy of participating in this discussion. It seems that the consensus throughout the internet is that duke is a great medical school for aspiring surgeons.

 

[GrabSlamBoot]

http://education-portal.com/articles/Best_Colleges_for_Surgeons_List_of_Top_Medical_Schools.html
http://www.surgeryschools.com/top_school_rankings/index.html
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=627934
http://www.ehow.com/list_6569224_top-medical-schools-surgeons.html
http://medschool.duke.edu/education/office-student-affairs/duke-medical-students-celebrate-match-day

20% of duke grads do surgery.

Honestly people, being a high school student doesn't make me any less worthy of participating in this discussion. It seems that the consensus throughout the internet is that duke is a great medical school for aspiring surgeons.

Haha I dont think that OP is interested in Surgery, so this isn't a factor. One thing I wanted to point out is that in terms of you being worried that certain doors may be closed if you choose Duke over Harvard, I think that it may depend on where you choose to practice/live. FWIW, being from the south, the Duke name really does carry a lot of weight with it. While you may not get an OMG Harvard face, if you end up living here (like you said you may consider), you will still turn heads and raise eyebrows with Duke on your diploma. I guess it will depend on where you want to practice, but imo Duke is the "Harvard of the South".

But of course.....Im biased 😉

 

[nysegop]

Haha I dont think that OP is interested in Surgery, so this isn't a factor. One thing I wanted to point out is that in terms of you being worried that certain doors may be closed if you choose Duke over Harvard, I think that it may depend on where you choose to practice/live. FWIW, being from the south, the Duke name really does carry a lot of weight with it. While you may not get an OMG Harvard face, if you end up living here (like you said you may consider), you will still turn heads and raise eyebrows with Duke on your diploma. I guess it will depend on where you want to practice, but imo Duke is the "Harvard of the South".

But of course.....Im biased 😉

I think we all are 😉

 

[wangers5270]

.

 

[impermanence]

Awesome options TheKD!

Boston is awesome but very cold. I think Duke makes more sense, as everyone says in terms of $ & your SO. Even if you did not have the SO factor (which for me is very big) the $ factor should still play a role. You'd have a lof of freedoms w/o any debt and Duke is an awesome school and does have a great basketball team. If you were to do your MPH you could also do it at UNC which is an awesome school... then again as the wagners mentioned JHMI also has the wow factor, is closer to home, has the best SPH & has 4 seasons (w/o a brutal winter).

I voted for Duke 🙂

Good luck and congratulations!!

 

[CrossCurrent]

I thought Harvard did not give out merit scholarships...how did the OP get 10k/year?

 

[publicschooler]

I'm not sure what you plan to do with an MD/MBA, but if its anything entrepreneurial I would say Harvard. In the world of business, school name is all that matters. While Fuqua is no slouch, HBS is in a league of its own and its alumni network can open doors anywhere.

 

[yellowfish]

This is a funny thread to read 😍 hi everybody!

A few quick comments from the wangers
1. Harvard & Hopkins are basically on equal footing in medicine, and if you want to Hopkins you'd raise eyebrows (wow hopkins!!!) and be a little closer to North Carolina for reasons you described above
2. Going to Duke would be free.
3. You can't go wrong with any of the 5 schools you're considering. It's quite frankly the most impressive short list ever (2 full rides to top-tier schools).

If you're in a very serious relationship, you probably won't be happy going anywhere but Duke. You don't want to be spending med school talking to your SO on Skype, because you should instead be streaming lectures at 2x and watching your kooky professors ramble about the brain 😛 Of course, people can make long-distance relationships work, but if you won't be happy going to Harvard, don't go. However, if you think your relationship is strong enough to last long-distance and it won't interfere with your success in med school, go to Harvard. But if you'll regret later giving up Harvard to be with your SO, you should have this conversation sooner rather than later.

You're splitting hairs between some of the top schools in the country, and you will succeed in medicine wherever you go, so pick the school that will make you the happiest and the school where you'll thrive the most.

~Wangers 😍😍

Awesome options TheKD!

Boston is awesome but very cold. I think Duke makes more sense, as everyone says in terms of $ & your SO. Even if you did not have the SO factor (which for me is very big) the $ factor should still play a role. You'd have a lof of freedoms w/o any debt and Duke is an awesome school and does have a great basketball team. If you were to do your MPH you could also do it at UNC which is an awesome school... then again as the wagners mentioned JHMI also has the wow factor, is closer to home, has the best SPH & has 4 seasons (w/o a brutal winter).

I voted for Duke 🙂

Good luck and congratulations!!

Thank you guys! Very helpful!

 

[yellowfish]

I thought Harvard did not give out merit scholarships...how did the OP get 10k/year?

See bottom of post #25

 

[hippocratic57]

Hey KDizz, just wanted to add a + for Duke imo. Although the Harvard names gives you a bit more cred with residency directors, I think that the Duke curriculum is the absolute best for allowing students to tailor the most competitive residency applications they can. Because Duke allows student to complete their clinical rotations the 2nd year, it allows you to tailor your research (which you will do some) to the specific type of residency specialty you are interested in. Most other schools have you do your research/activities pre-clinically which means that for a lot of people they are only tangentially related to the specialty they go into. Having strongly related research is a definite plus in residency applications. Either way you can't go wrong, but I hope this helps to mitigate the residency prestige difference for you.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Duke 100%
It's a much better option financially. You'll appreciate it greatly when you can choose what you want to do without having to worry about debt load.

 

[mcloaf]

Anyone telling you to give up a free medical education at Duke because Harvard is a measurably better school or will somehow open more doors needs to be medicated, IMO.

 

[erutha95]

Anyone telling you to give up a free medical education at Duke because Harvard is a measurably better school or will somehow open more doors needs to be medicated, IMO.

It's not that they're crazy, it's that they're SDN pre-meds blowing their load for Harvard. They'd say the same thing if OP asked about Harvard vs Hopkins, Penn, Stanford, or UCSF.

OMGWTFBBQ IT'S HARVARD.


Seriously, take the free, excellent education from Duke. You will not be better off in any way going to Harvard, and your financial well-being will suffer.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Let me put it this way, had you not gotten into Harvard, would you be sitting around sulking thinking "wow I wish I got into Harvard, going to Duke for free might limit me in the future". Absolutely not. There will be no difference in what you can and cannot do regardless of which school you pick. Make the smart choice. You'll be glad when you won't be paying back 10 years of loans when all is said and done, and you can get that new car or house a decade earlier 👍

 

[The Beyonder]

Duke all the way. I know it's Harvard, but choosing between top schools is splitting hairs. Do not underestimate how much cold winters and being away from family and friends will suck, especially with that full ride.

P.S. how can there be such a small difference in cost between these two school. Boston is a pretty expensive place to live.

+1 this is a very funny thread

 

[Wifey1985]

Harvard is a warm blanket, Charlie Brown. It is UNBELIEVABLY difficult to turn your back on Harvard, even when all signs point to another school, and even when the only true one-up Harvard can offer is the name recognition. If you choose Harvard for that reason alone, no one can really blame you.

That said, it is hard to imagine that someone who was accepted to as many brilliant medical schools as you were will ever have any difficulty convincing others you are smart and qualified, regardless of which medical school you attend. Harvard may have better residency placement or academic position placement on average, but $100 bucks says you will be placed at your top choice even if you choose Duke over Harvard.

Definitely a tough choice! What does your girlfriend say? If she's the one, I'd listen to her. Good luck!

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Harvard is a warm blanket, Charlie Brown. It is UNBELIEVABLY difficult to turn your back on Harvard, even when all signs point to another school, and even when the only true one-up Harvard can offer is the name recognition. If you choose Harvard for that reason alone, no one can really blame you.

That said, it is hard to imagine that someone who was accepted to as many brilliant medical schools as you were will ever have any difficulty convincing others you are smart and qualified, regardless of which medical school you attend. Harvard may have better residency placement or academic position placement on average, but $100 bucks says you will be placed at your top choice even if you choose Duke over Harvard.

Definitely a tough choice! What does your girlfriend say? If she's the one, I'd listen to her. Good luck!

This.

Harvard can't do anything for you that you can't do for yourself, as evidenced by your incredible success this cycle and the amazing(ly hard) choices you now have before you. Congrats and good luck!

 

[hurlygrly07]

.

 

[yellowfish]

congrats!
i saw you said your Harvard scholarship was from the university not the med school? how did this happen? any suggestions for those of us scrounging for money on how you applied/got this?

(i vote duke. family + weather + equally amazing program + $$$ = happiness, and happiness is more important than prestige....and i hate the red sox)

Appreciate it! I've gotten a lot of questions about the Harvard scholarship - I didn't have to apply for it, I was nominated by the medical school so I didn't have to do anything extra. It was a scholarship that any Harvard graduate student is eligible for. Hope this helps!