LECOM-Bradenton Discussion Thread 2009-2010

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Accepted a few places and just trying to sort everything out and ask a couple of questions:

1. Is it hard to defer for a year, to volunteer overseas or something similar to this?
2. When does school start for you?
3. What is your favorite part of your school?
4. What do you hate about your school?
5. Do most students live with roommates?
6. What is the average age of your entering students?
7. How many days a week are you in PBL or at the school?
8. Is it pass/ fail or graded....also it is all multiple choice right?

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I know it's funny, but honestly, 99% of the stuff people complain about at LECOM-B is stuff that they'll have to do at hospitals.

People hate having to swipe their badge in and out. Guess what...hospitals do that.

People hate not being able to eat and drink wherever they want. Guess what...hospitals do that too, at least in certain parts (OR).

People hate having to dress up every day. Guess what...we have to do that too.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. To me, its just more prep for the real thing.

That's a very good point. I was impressed by the facilities, despite the sterile feel lol, they really seemed state of the art: the OMM room (wow), the doctor office simulation (again wow), the library...was unimpressive, but I heard most people don't study there anyways. I don't know though, this was my first interview, is it like that at other places?
 
Accepted a few places and just trying to sort everything out and ask a couple of questions:

1. Is it hard to defer for a year, to volunteer overseas or something similar to this?

I don't think so, but I've never checked into it. I've heard other people have. Honestly though, I'd get all your ya-ya's out before you start. I've heard that deferring may not look that great on a residency app.

We do have a number of summer mission trips, and people do international rotation months as well.


2. When does school start for you?

Usually last week or so in July. This seems to be a couple weeks earlier than most other places.

3. What is your favorite part of your school?

The exit. Just kidding. I'd have to say PBL. It's great only having to go to class for a couple hours, then using the rest of my time to study as I see fit. It allows me more flexibility to spend time with my family, or play video games...

4. What do you hate about your school?

I wouldn't say that I "hate" anything. Here are my only complaints:

My class (2012) made some stupid book switches based on other class' complaints. We've switched back now, but 1st year Path out of Rubin's Path (instead of Robbins) sucked. On the plus side of that, the school does listen to student complaints and acts on them. For better or worse.

OMM. I'm not a huge OMM-er. I like it. I love having it done to me. If I wind up in some type of FP-ish setting, then I may use it, much of it certainly works. Our OMM professor is great at doing OMM, and he's pretty good at teaching it in lab. That being said, our lectures are pretty lame. Our prof is a little ADD or something, so he kinda goes off on tangents sometimes, and it just kinda feels like he didn't prepare that much. Maybe he's just not a great lecturer. He's really nice though, and very enthusiastic about teaching us OMM, so that's a plus. I just wish it was a little more organized.

Communication. PBL rocks, but I wish that our OMM and Clinical Exam classes paid more attention to our PBL cases, so we got more coordination between subjects. It'd be nice to be doing some heart cases in PBL while doing heart stuff in CE and OMM, but it doesn't always work that way. The lack of coordination could be a good thing, as you wind up reviewing different things at different times = more review...but I'm not a huge fan. It's also not uncommon (especially in OMM) for a teacher to ask us a question that we can't answer, and then say, "haven't you guys done that in PBL?" We say, "noooo, not yet". He says, "oh...well, you will." Wish he'd just look ahead of time.

Hmm...that's about all really. Honestly, these are really, really, minor complaints. Nit picky stuff, not a huge deal.

Personally, I feel that the school is doing SOMETHING right, what with the crazy high board scores and all, and they should change ANYTHING at all. Nothing. Not a book, not a teacher...nothing. It obviously works. Don't mess with it.

5. Do most students live with roommates?

Yes. 68.7% of students have roommates. Ok, I made that up. But, yes, I think most students have roommates. Those of us that don't usually have families. There are few weirdo loners who live alone. More people live alone 1st year, then room with new friends 2nd year. Everyone I know that got a roommate randomly prior to school starting had it pretty much all work out ok.

6. What is the average age of your entering students?

This (and many of these) would be a better question to ask the admissions people at the school. If I had to guess, I'd say 25-26 ish. I am now 31. There are a decent number people in class older than me, and many younger. Most younger. Punks.


7. How many days a week are you in PBL or at the school?

PBL 3 days a week. MWF. Two hours a day. 1st years have it in the afternoon (1-3 or 3-5, alternating weeks). 2nd years have it in the morning (8-10 or 10-12, alternating). Spring semester of 2nd year, at least THIS year, my class is only doing PBL twice a week Tuesday and Friday. Still 2 hours. They feel we've covered enough ground or something. Fine with me. More time to study for step 1.

Tuesday is OMM and CE lecture. 1 hour each. Times vary depending on your year.

Thursday is OMM lab. 2 hours. Same as PBL times pretty much.

All of this is subject to change obviously, but it's held pretty solid for the last few years.

8. Is it pass/ fail or graded....also it is all multiple choice right?

PBL, OMM, and Clinical Exam (CE) are all graded. 2nd semester of 1st year, and 1st semester of 2nd year you have some mini-courses (medical ethics, geriatrics, etc) that are pass-fail, although some of those are graded as well. Lab portion of OMM is pass-fail, must pass to pass the class. Same with the practical exam in CE. But they don't affect your number grade at all. PBL is by FAR the most number of credits. It pretty much determines your GPA by itself. I think it was 48 credits or something for me this semester. I think CE was 3. Something like that.

All tests are multiple choice, board style questions. Except the practicals, of course. They are pretty well written too. Not always perfect, but pretty darn good. Really terrible questions usually get thrown out.
 
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That's a very good point. I was impressed by the facilities, despite the sterile feel lol, they really seemed state of the art: the OMM room (wow), the doctor office simulation (again wow), the library...was unimpressive, but I heard most people don't study there anyways. I don't know though, this was my first interview, is it like that at other places?

LECOM-B was my only DO interview, but from what I hear...no. It certainly wasn't that way at the MD interviews I did. One of those was so poorly conducted that it was embarrassing. We didn't see the anatomy lab (out of respect for the cadavers :rolleyes:. They tried to take us to a room to eat lunch and ask them questions, only to find it locked, so we had to sit out in the hallway on the floor and eat our crappy pizza. Lame. My other MD interview had students walking around in Pajamas. Also, the buildings tend to be older (MUCH older, but not always) and thus are less nice.

OMM room is pretty nice. Those tables are sweet. The "patient encounter" rooms are nice-ish. Wish we had better tables in there. The exam tables in there are pretty lame. Also the room in the corner of the building has awesome wrap-around windows, which SUCKS when you're trying to do an eye exam. Other than that, they're pretty nice.

I do think LECOM has been good at embracing technology. The library has FAR more electronic resources than physical ones...which is fine by me. That's the future people. We'll all be laughing at how we used to have to read things on "paper" when we were kids. The students also use an absurd amount of electronic resources, from online lectures (some legal, some...not) to e-books (some legal, some...not) and the school is pretty cool with allowing that. For example, I tend to bring probably 60% of my PBL books in physical form to a PBL session, based on what I think I might need, but I have most of my other books in electronic form, just in case...and if I have to bust one out, it's not a big deal.

Also, the school has an UpToDate account, which if you don't know what that is, google it...best thing ever.
 
Wow thanks for the in depth answers digitlnoize. I am seriously considering deferring for a year because I feel a little burnt out right now and my undergrad school does not get out until mid June. That gives me a little over a month to prepare for essentially a marathon. Why would it hurt your residency app, it seems volunteer could never hurt, but maybe I am mistaken.

The two reserves I have with LECOM (and DO schools in general) is that I really really do not want to end up in family practice. I say this based on my shadowing experiences. I realize that many end up in things other than family practice, but I wonder how many wanted another fields but could only place in family practice. My other reserve is my parents, becuase everytime they look at the LECOM website they see a minimum of a 2.7 and then assume this is the average (go figure). Therefore, everytime I tell I am seriously considering it they get mad....this would not matter but they are paying for a good portion of my college and med school.
 
Wow thanks for the in depth answers digitlnoize. I am seriously considering deferring for a year because I feel a little burnt out right now and my undergrad school does not get out until mid June. That gives me a little over a month to prepare for essentially a marathon. Why would it hurt your residency app, it seems volunteer could never hurt, but maybe I am mistaken.

The two reserves I have with LECOM (and DO schools in general) is that I really really do not want to end up in family practice. I say this based on my shadowing experiences. I realize that many end up in things other than family practice, but I wonder how many wanted another fields but could only place in family practice. My other reserve is my parents, becuase everytime they look at the LECOM website they see a minimum of a 2.7 and then assume this is the average (go figure). Therefore, everytime I tell I am seriously considering it they get mad....this would not matter but they are paying for a good portion of my college and med school.

Sorry, I thought you meant deferring a year after you'd already started, like between 1st and 2nd year.

I wouldn't worry too much about ending up in FP. LECOM-B's match list is pretty slanted towards other specialties. EM, IM, and Anesthesia were our biggest matches, and most of the IM's will go on to subspecialize (something like only 10-15% of IM's stay in general IM). We had matches in Radiology, Ophtho, Ortho Surg, Gen Surg, and a bunch of other things. You won't see any Derm matches because they're all done PGY-2, a year after graduation.

The GPA listed on the website is WAY out of date, I'm sure. They haven't changed that thing in years. Also, keep in mind that DO school GPA's are occasionally misleading because of the higher number of non-trads.

I, for example, had a 3.8 science GPA. But, I had a 3.3 overall GPA because I had a year or so of non-science grades from 10 years ago that were bad because I stopped going to classes and didn't drop them. I sucked. Obviously I pulled my GPA up, alot, but it still sucked. Many other people are in similar boats. It does pull it down a bit.

I mean, I know you have to take your parents into account somewhat, but honestly, you should go to the school that is a) the CHEAPEST (this is probably the most important factor, really), b) will make you the best doctor, and c) is in a good location.

Grades, MCATs, Board Scores...these things do not make a person a good doctor, and shouldn't be much of a factor in your decision making.

Is LECOM-B cheaper than your other options?

Are you self-motivated, can you push yourself to read another 2 or 3 chapters even though you don't "have" to?

Do you want to live in Florida?

Do you want to learn OMM? This isn't a huge deal honestly, since most DO's don't bother with it, but it's still worth considering. I was pretty ambivalent about it coming in, but now I'm glad I've learned what I've learned, and I think it's certainly helped in certain ways. I treat my wife (and other family) occasionally, and I can see how it can make a difference, if you're doing that kind of work. Won't matter if you want to do Rads or Path.

What specialties ARE you considering? Keep in mind, though, that what's competitive today, may not be competitive tomorrow. That being said, currently, there aren't really any DO path residencies, and there aren't a ton of DO's in Path. You'd be a minority. Same for Plastic Surg, Derm, Rads (although this is changing quickly), Anesthesia, etc. Are you ok with being a minority?

Why NOT Family Practice? Money? Again, this might change drastically.

Do you want to do research? We have some, but not much.

Are you ok with doing community rotations? The upside is that it's just you and the attending. You get to do a LOT more, and I think you learn a lot more about real world medicine as well. You won't have to compete with the "academia" hierarchy (attending>chief>resident>intern>4th years>3rd years).

The downside is that you're in smaller hospitals so you won't see as many "Zebras" as you would in a University Center. You'll see tons of heart, kidney, liver, etc, but less of the rare diseases. Is that the kind of medicine you want to do? Or do you want to do the rare, crazy, "one-in-a-million" stuff.

A lot of this also has to do with where you do your residency, so the school you pick isn't the end of the road...but it's a start. I'm also not saying that you can't see this stuff at LECOM-B, we DO have rotations at some big hospitals, but most of them are back up north in the Penn. area.

Do you want to be near family? Is LECOM-B far away from them? Does that matter?

Just some questions you should think about. You don't have to answer me, per se, I'm just sayin'.
 
The two reserves I have with LECOM (and DO schools in general) is that I really really do not want to end up in family practice. I say this based on my shadowing experiences. I realize that many end up in things other than family practice, but I wonder how many wanted another fields but could only place in family practice. My other reserve is my parents, becuase everytime they look at the LECOM website they see a minimum of a 2.7 and then assume this is the average (go figure). Therefore, everytime I tell I am seriously considering it they get mad....this would not matter but they are paying for a good portion of my college and med school.

I think digitlnoize basically hit on all the major points and I totally agree with him. :thumbup:

The whole parent situation is pretty much one of those situations where either you're able to show them that their views/biases are wrong, and get them on your side, or not... and then have to decide what YOU want to do. No right or wrong answer, it IS your decision but if that means you might lose their financial support then that's definitely something to take into consideration.

That said, you can show them last year's match list for yourself. Plenty of great matches in great fields. My class (2011), had either the highest or 2nd highest average COMLEX step 1 scores among DO scores. Over 30 of us also took USMLE step 1 and last I heard all passed, and from the few friends I've talked to did very well on both exams.

Definitely don't totally throw FP out. First, most students end up changing their mind at least once through this whole process, and who knows what the healthcare landscape is going to look like in a few years. I've met plenty of FP docs locally that do EXTREMELY well financial.... and I mean well even compared to specialists. I'm on my 2nd month of surgery, and the surgeons I'm with have said they've seen their income drop by a 1/3 since they began.....a THIRD! Subspecialists are currently taking a hit and from how hard/long they work compared to the FP I've seen definitely would make you think twice before writing off primary care.

So, nothing magic that's gonna change your parent's minds. Curious, are they physicians themselves? What nationality?

At some level there is always going to be some amount of bias.... if it's not DO vs MD then it could be lower level state MD school vs top tier MD, etc... We have very well trained MDs who teach at the school alongside DOs. Most of my attendings during rotations have been MDs and have said good things about our students and have had no problems with my performance yet, so if you're a good student then you'll open doors for yourself no matter where you go.

I'll stop rambling for now but feel free to ask if there are any other questions.
 
Thanks both for your responses.

PBL is seems like a fit to me because through undergrad I basically learn little via lectures and teach most things to myself.

I have no problem living in Florida, I like warm weather and am single with no dependents so that is not a consideration.

My parents actually are computer and business people and I am pretty sure they will help me a little financially wherever I end up going. The only reason I brought it up is that it will take me months to convince them that I am not throwing their money away....

The DO bias thing is no worry to me from a resident stage onwards because my goal is not to impress pre-meds but practice and have a job....
However, I do want to make sure I will be able match into a mid difficulty specialty if I wish. I have no desire for derm, however EM, anesthesiology, and maybe even rad (I am a tech geek) are what I am most interested in.
I don't like family practice for these reasons thus far:
1. Underpaid
2. Get calls during nights and weekends (unlike the fields above which are more shift based)
3. Potential of competition with PA and NP in the future
4. The 2 PCP I know both said I should become something other than a PCP

Also I am skeptical of OMM, which is my only other major concern, they seem to hype it so much on interview day but I question it effectiveness if only 10% of DOs use it.

Anyways LECOM seems my best fit so far. I have one other DO acceptance and an MD school wait list, but I think I will just put my deposit down and end this dilemma.

Did anyone know the exact deferral policy for incoming students?
 
I do want to make sure I will be able match into a mid difficulty specialty if I wish. I have no desire for derm, however EM, anesthesiology, and maybe even rad (I am a tech geek) are what I am most interested in.

Pretty much all of those are very doable at a DO school. Really, everything is doable. DO's match every year into every field including Plastics, Derm, etc. We had a neurosurg a year or two ago I think...Certainly the ones you list are pretty DO friendly. Rads is probably the least, but that's more program dependent and has changed alot in the last 5 years or so. Also, I wouldn't expect rads to be that competitive in 4.5 years, but that's just my prediction. I think rads pay will decline and you'll see a drop in people applying...I could be wrong...

I don't like family practice for these reasons thus far:
1. Underpaid

This is really changing fast. FM might have the last laugh on all of us.

2. Get calls during nights and weekends (unlike the fields above which are more shift based)

This is very practice dependent. While its hard to avoid ALL calls, most people limit them by using PA's or sharing call in a very large group or having hospitalists admit all their patients.

3. Potential of competition with PA and NP in the future

I'll defer to the FM forum on this one. Most people there (and I agree somewhat) seem to think that the shortage is/will be so drastic that this won't be an issue. Really depends on how the reform goes. If medical home takes off then the FP's will be the Boss of Everyone.

4. The 2 PCP I know both said I should become something other than a PCP

I know. I've heard some of the same. Again, depends on how well they ran their practice, and how much $$ they made, and many other variables. FP's have been very jaded with the amount of paperwork and the low pay for many years now...

Also I am skeptical of OMM, which is my only other major concern, they seem to hype it so much on interview day but I question it effectiveness if only 10% of DOs use it.

This is less because of the effectiveness than because of a historical anomaly in Medicare reimbursement. From its inception until the 90's, Medicare did not adequately reimburse for OMM services. This led to a great decline in its use because DO's weren't getting paid for it. No one's gonna do it for free...it does take time. Since the coding system was amended in the 90's to fix this problem, OMM use has increased greatly, and continues to do so. It would increase even more if FP's had more time...
 
Funny part is how you'll probably hear the same thing for each specialty.... how "bad" their field has gotten compared to others.

Surgeons I'm with now have commented several times on how bad general surgery has gotten regarding reimbursements..... and then the FP I was with couple months ago, who is in a solo private practice, loves his job, makes good money, no hospital work/no call/no weekends, and gets to do international medical mission work at least 1-2 times a year.

Goes to show that the grass is not always greener, and that if you truly enjoy your field you'll find a way to make it "worthwhile" to you.
 
man only a day left to hear back from the admissions office, REALLY trying to go to school here, anyone know how many seats that may have been filled already?
 
Did anyone have the information of the deferral policy, is volunteering overseas an acceptable reason?

Sorry...no idea. If you're seriously considering it, I'd think about calling and asking...
 
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One more day until a decision!

After reading some of the comments above about OMM, I feel the treatment modality is for a very specific population. In my area, there is no way you could get someone in position to do some of those manipulations: a greater geriatric population. I have a hard time getting people in position for an EKG or ICG. However, I do think the ability to manage a patient with chronic sciatica, or maybe someone with fibromyalgia, with little/no medication is priceless.

Also, if the current healthcare reform goes through, PCPs will have an increase in reimbursements. I would try to keep an open mind in what field to go into, because: A) Where will you be practicing? Different areas of the country present different populations; a PCP in rural Kentucy is going to see a different population than a PCP in NYC. In some areas of the country, EMs act as FPs - MUA/P. B) I forgot what B was.

The need for PCPs is increasing, which correlates to the current measures being taken to increase PCPs: rural and urban MUA/P programs in medical schools, an increasing role of NPs (and possibly PA), and payments.

Anyways, good luck to everyone in the current application cycle - especially those wating to here a decision tomorrow!

Best regards,
dudechiefboss
 
One more day until a decision!

After reading some of the comments above about OMM, I feel the treatment modality is for a very specific population. In my area, there is no way you could get someone in position to do some of those manipulations: a greater geriatric population. I have a hard time getting people in position for an EKG or ICG. However, I do think the ability to manage a patient with chronic sciatica, or maybe someone with fibromyalgia, with little/no medication is priceless.

I think you'd be surprised. I haven't gotten out in the field with OMM yet, but from what our instructor tells us, the geriatric patients benefit greatly from OMM. OMM is a lot more than cracking necks. Maybe you can't do HVLA on them, but you can do some Rib Raising or OA release to work on the sympathetic or parasympathetic nerves...this can really improve their symptoms. Headache + OA release = best thing ever.

Also, if the current healthcare reform goes through, PCPs will have an increase in reimbursements. I would try to keep an open mind in what field to go into, because: A) Where will you be practicing? Different areas of the country present different populations; a PCP in rural Kentucy is going to see a different population than a PCP in NYC. In some areas of the country, EMs act as FPs - MUA/P. B) I forgot what B was.

The need for PCPs is increasing, which correlates to the current measures being taken to increase PCPs: rural and urban MUA/P programs in medical schools, an increasing role of NPs (and possibly PA), and payments.

Definitely. Also, don't forget that shortage = demand. I think as the shortage gets worse you'll see more and more FP's going to cash only practices...especially if payment from insurance/medicare doesn't get better.
 
4. The 2 PCP I know both said I should become something other than a PCP

Yes, there are always some folks who get all the way through med school and residency and feel locked into their jobs, but that goes for every field of medicine. I had 2 EM attendings at the hospital where I worked tell me to stay away from EM. I had a radiologist tell me there's no future in radiology. I had a surgeon tell me it's an ok field to go into if you don't want to see your family. Pretty much everybody told me to go to dental school instead of medical school.

Only problem was, that's really, really not what I want to do. I'm not sure what field I'll end up in. My background is on the emergency side of things, but I'm open-minded. You never know what you're going to like until you get into it.

Also I am skeptical of OMM, which is my only other major concern, they seem to hype it so much on interview day but I question it effectiveness if only 10% of DOs use it.

I respect your skepticism. I would say only 50% at most of students here have any idea of what OMM is like before they get here. I'm kinda skeptical myself. The main thing is that if you end up a surgeon or radiologist, you probably won't end up adjusting too many people in your practice.

On the other hand, if you've seen an EM doc (MD or DO) reduce a dislocated radial head, you'll notice they use an HVLA technique suspiciously like the one I learned in my first semester at LECOM.

Every tool in the arsenal has its place. So I don't know if 10% use it at all, or just 10% use it regularly, or what. If all else fails, and your significant other is the only one who benefits, that doesn't seem so bad.

You can definitely learn medicine here and end up in the specialty you want. You could also end up going to an MD school and be "stuck" with an FP residency. It's up to you, once you get there.

Good luck with your decision!
 
Accepted!!! I will enjoy going to school here, good luck to everyone in the current application cycle.

Happy holidays,
Dudechiefboss
 
Guess its time to get a Facebook account. :laugh:

Regarding the spinal manipulation thing: It is much more valuable than most of you realize. I have been using it exclusively in a clinical setting for over a year now, and even I'm surprised sometimes at the benefits. I regularly use HVLA on the geriatric population, and they respond very well. You can't adjust the osteophytes out, but you can get them moving better, which they appreciate very much. If you are in my OMM class, I will let you guys in on some pretty awesome techniques that I have learned along the way. Looking forward to seeing you all this summer. :D
 
hey guys, I have been following this forum for quite some time but recently just signed up. I received my interview invite from LECOM-B last week. This is my first interview invite so far scheduled for jan 26. I got the call from heather early in the morning while I was half asleep and nearly fell out of my bed. lol I was really late on submitting my secondary on dec 7. neways here are my stats.

traditional student
sgpa: 3.4
cgpa: 3.3
mcat: 28L 10V 9P 9B
ec: shadowed a DO family care physician, but nothin after that due to employment.
in-state will graduate in spring
 
Anyone interviewing January 5th that wants to split the cost of a rental car?

I get into Tampa at about 1:45pm Jan 4th. PM me if interested.:)
 
Hey everyone,

Unfortunately my interview group did not get to see a PBL session, so I have a few questions for those who are currently attending LECOM-B.

How do you take notes/document what you are learning during a case? Is it by systems, or under different topics (i.e. biochem, embryo, ect.)?

How much of additional sources, such as board review books, do you consult outside of the school's suggested text books?

I am going to contact the school and see if I can sit in on a PBL session during the next semester to see the logistics of everything. I greatly appreciate any help, thank you.

Happy Holidays,
Dudechiefboss
 
It's really tough to understand PBL without actually participating in it. It helps a lot to see it in action, but there are some things that just won't make sense until you are actually doing it. I'm a first year, and it seems that most people just take notes on their case sheets as we go through. Sometimes I take notes on my computer. As far as taking notes on the actual readings, that differs person to person. Some people highlight, some people make flashcards, some outline, but I don't do any of that. I tried in the beginning, but found the time I would spend making notes I would be better served just reading the chapter again.

You go through the materials with a systems approach across all the disciplines. Like if you have something about the heart in your case, you may end up reading heart embryology, anatomy, physiology and pathology. It all gets integrated as you read it at the same time.

As for outside materials-- you cannot use them as a valid source going through the case. What I mean by that is, when you are going through the case, you can't say "I think it is this, because I read this in an outside text." Everything has to be supported in our textbooks. With that said, I definitely use several review books to study. I have a few BRS books and some Rapid Review books.
 
Hey everyone,

Unfortunately my interview group did not get to see a PBL session, so I have a few questions for those who are currently attending LECOM-B.

How do you take notes/document what you are learning during a case? Is it by systems, or under different topics (i.e. biochem, embryo, ect.)?

How much of additional sources, such as board review books, do you consult outside of the school's suggested text books?

I am going to contact the school and see if I can sit in on a PBL session during the next semester to see the logistics of everything. I greatly appreciate any help, thank you.

Happy Holidays,
Dudechiefboss

It's kinda like this:

Page 1: Mr. Jones, a 36 year old male, comes to your office complaining of a dry cough.

Then we do a differential (someone has to "scribe", write on the whiteboard now). We think Mr. Jones could have: Pneumonia, TB, etc...big list.

Then someone pretends to be the patient and someone pretends to be the doctor, and we run through the interview. The "patient" gets a list of answers to say.

Then the group gets:

Page 2: This has the patient history and is usually quite long. I'm not typing a fake one here. Suffice it to say that Mr. Jones has a pretty high fever, and has been coughing alot for the last 3 weeks. No recent travel, sick contacts, hemoptysis, etc....

On this page we'll start to look up things we don't know. Maybe we'll look up what "hemoptysis" means. Maybe we'll look up the biochemistry of a fever and talk about it...who knows...

We'll also look up any drugs the patient is taking in pharm...

Page 3: Physical Exam. Vitals, Each organ system. Also quite long. Again, we'll look up (mostly in Clinical Exam or the internet) the terms here and their significance.

Usually around this point we start to look in Path and see what it could be and talk about it. All the while we assign chapters to read. So, we'll assign ourselves Lung Path, and maybe ACE Inhibitor pharm (he's taking an ACE, which can cause...dry cough!).

Page 4: CBC. Here we use the Lab Book to see what all these numbers mean. You'll know by 2nd year.

And so on. Early in the case you tend to use more Biochem, Phys, Clinical Exam, Lab Test Book. Embryo is more specific to the case. Later in the case, when you have an idea what disease or organ system might be involved, you'll start to talk about more Path, Pharm, maybe Histo (if we did a biopsy), etc...

And so on. It's kinda like House, but with more reading...

The cases themselves are not technically systems based, but they do kinda come in chunks. We'll get a couple of heart cases, a couple of kidney, and one random one before a test.

Taking notes is silly. If you want notes, read a review book. I would tend to agree with Dev's answer above regarding not using review books in PBL, with the caveat that it depends on your facilitator...some are more open to google and review books than others. Rapid Review Path and Mini-Pharm are usually "accepted" ones to use...other than that, I don't use 'em much in class.

Occasionally you'll come across a word that's just NOT in your books and it really helps to have a computer handy...
 
Hey everyone,

Unfortunately my interview group did not get to see a PBL session, so I have a few questions for those who are currently attending LECOM-B.

How do you take notes/document what you are learning during a case? Is it by systems, or under different topics (i.e. biochem, embryo, ect.)?

I think the above responses nailed it. The cases are SORT OF laid out according systems... but like was already mentioned you may get a couple cardiac cases and then a renal case. But this does NOT mean that during your heart case you won't be reading about any other systems. So it's a mix. During each session you assign reading topics/learning issues which are chapters from the individual text books which may span a couple organ systems.

As far as notes, the most I ever did was jot down some notes on the case sheets. Keep in mind that the majority of your learning will not happen during the PBL session, that time really is not to review what you've already studied, but to figure out what ELSE you need to know to understand what is going on in the case. When we would get stuck on some lab values or test result I would jot some notes down on the page during my study time and the next time we got together we may go back and clarify something specific or quickly review a concept that we had trouble with, but that was it. During my own study time I rarely took notes, I tried highlighting but even gave that up. There are plenty of review books that condense the material down, no need to go making my own review notes. At least for me I'm a fairly slow reader and there is just too much material to get through and not enough time to get through it a couple times, let alone try and make notes/outlines in the process and then review those.

During the 2 years there is a lot of overlap and you will go over most concepts/topics a couple times and the 2nd time going over something like kidney physiology makes a huge difference and is much easier the 2nd time.

How much of additional sources, such as board review books, do you consult outside of the school's suggested text books?

I basically had some sort of review book available for each subject (Path, physio, pharm, etc...) Didn't use all of them all the time, but would use parts of them throughout. There a TON of other resources available and it can be overwhleming..... try and find a series of review books or just a few that you like and stick to those. You can go crazy trying to look at 5 different physio review books....

And that said I used those type of things more 2nd year than first. Also during 2nd year I followed along and annotated my 1st Aid board review book so when it came time to review for Step 1 I had the review book filled with my own notes and additions.
 
It's really tough to understand PBL without actually participating in it. It helps a lot to see it in action, but there are some things that just won't make sense until you are actually doing it. I'm a first year, and it seems that most people just take notes on their case sheets as we go through. Sometimes I take notes on my computer. As far as taking notes on the actual readings, that differs person to person. Some people highlight, some people make flashcards, some outline, but I don't do any of that. I tried in the beginning, but found the time I would spend making notes I would be better served just reading the chapter again.

You go through the materials with a systems approach across all the disciplines. Like if you have something about the heart in your case, you may end up reading heart embryology, anatomy, physiology and pathology. It all gets integrated as you read it at the same time.

As for outside materials-- you cannot use them as a valid source going through the case. What I mean by that is, when you are going through the case, you can't say "I think it is this, because I read this in an outside text." Everything has to be supported in our textbooks. With that said, I definitely use several review books to study. I have a few BRS books and some Rapid Review books.

It's kinda like this:

Page 1: Mr. Jones, a 36 year old male, comes to your office complaining of a dry cough.

Then we do a differential (someone has to "scribe", write on the whiteboard now). We think Mr. Jones could have: Pneumonia, TB, etc...big list.

Then someone pretends to be the patient and someone pretends to be the doctor, and we run through the interview. The "patient" gets a list of answers to say.

Then the group gets:

Page 2: This has the patient history and is usually quite long. I'm not typing a fake one here. Suffice it to say that Mr. Jones has a pretty high fever, and has been coughing alot for the last 3 weeks. No recent travel, sick contacts, hemoptysis, etc....

On this page we'll start to look up things we don't know. Maybe we'll look up what "hemoptysis" means. Maybe we'll look up the biochemistry of a fever and talk about it...who knows...

We'll also look up any drugs the patient is taking in pharm...

Page 3: Physical Exam. Vitals, Each organ system. Also quite long. Again, we'll look up (mostly in Clinical Exam or the internet) the terms here and their significance.

Usually around this point we start to look in Path and see what it could be and talk about it. All the while we assign chapters to read. So, we'll assign ourselves Lung Path, and maybe ACE Inhibitor pharm (he's taking an ACE, which can cause...dry cough!).

Page 4: CBC. Here we use the Lab Book to see what all these numbers mean. You'll know by 2nd year.

And so on. Early in the case you tend to use more Biochem, Phys, Clinical Exam, Lab Test Book. Embryo is more specific to the case. Later in the case, when you have an idea what disease or organ system might be involved, you'll start to talk about more Path, Pharm, maybe Histo (if we did a biopsy), etc...

And so on. It's kinda like House, but with more reading...

The cases themselves are not technically systems based, but they do kinda come in chunks. We'll get a couple of heart cases, a couple of kidney, and one random one before a test.

Taking notes is silly. If you want notes, read a review book. I would tend to agree with Dev's answer above regarding not using review books in PBL, with the caveat that it depends on your facilitator...some are more open to google and review books than others. Rapid Review Path and Mini-Pharm are usually "accepted" ones to use...other than that, I don't use 'em much in class.

Occasionally you'll come across a word that's just NOT in your books and it really helps to have a computer handy...

I think the above responses nailed it. The cases are SORT OF laid out according systems... but like was already mentioned you may get a couple cardiac cases and then a renal case. But this does NOT mean that during your heart case you won't be reading about any other systems. So it's a mix. During each session you assign reading topics/learning issues which are chapters from the individual text books which may span a couple organ systems.

As far as notes, the most I ever did was jot down some notes on the case sheets. Keep in mind that the majority of your learning will not happen during the PBL session, that time really is not to review what you've already studied, but to figure out what ELSE you need to know to understand what is going on in the case. When we would get stuck on some lab values or test result I would jot some notes down on the page during my study time and the next time we got together we may go back and clarify something specific or quickly review a concept that we had trouble with, but that was it. During my own study time I rarely took notes, I tried highlighting but even gave that up. There are plenty of review books that condense the material down, no need to go making my own review notes. At least for me I'm a fairly slow reader and there is just too much material to get through and not enough time to get through it a couple times, let alone try and make notes/outlines in the process and then review those.

During the 2 years there is a lot of overlap and you will go over most concepts/topics a couple times and the 2nd time going over something like kidney physiology makes a huge difference and is much easier the 2nd time.



I basically had some sort of review book available for each subject (Path, physio, pharm, etc...) Didn't use all of them all the time, but would use parts of them throughout. There a TON of other resources available and it can be overwhleming..... try and find a series of review books or just a few that you like and stick to those. You can go crazy trying to look at 5 different physio review books....

And that said I used those type of things more 2nd year than first. Also during 2nd year I followed along and annotated my 1st Aid board review book so when it came time to review for Step 1 I had the review book filled with my own notes and additions.
Thank you for the replies.
 
Thank you for the replies.

Ditto! Thanks for the great info, guys. Even though, as you said, you have to *do* this sort of thing to really get it, this kind of preview helps a lot.

(Interview next week - eeeep! So excited! But nervous! But excited!)
 
I received a rejection letter today. No interview. I can't say I was really expecting that.

4.0 sGPA
26 MCAT
800 volunteer hours
200 shadowing hours
6 months medical assistant

:confused:

I would call them up and ask for a reason nicely. just say that you would like to find out about the flaws in your application so you could be a stronger applicant in future or something like that.
 
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I received a rejection letter today. No interview. I can't say I was really expecting that.

4.0 sGPA
26 MCAT
800 volunteer hours
200 shadowing hours
6 months medical assistant

:confused:

how was your interview? any rough spots? what sort of responses did you give?
 
I would call them up and ask for a reason nicely. just say that you would like to find out about the flaws in your application so you could be a stronger applicant in future or something like that.

I would also suggest calling and just seeing if there were any obvious weak areas they saw in your app that you could work on.

Anything in your pesonal statement that could've been taken the wrong way? Are you sure your LORs were strong?
Any unexplained academic grades or breaks? (not guessing this is the case based on the 4.0 unless a ton of retakes)
 
I have pre-interview hold. JustAGuy: What was your overall gpa. I think they might look at that more than science gpa because my science gpa was pretty strong as well, but overall gpa slighty lower
 
does anyone know how big the alternate list is/ what % usually gets off of it?
 
As of right now, 3.5+.
Who did you shadow with, MD, DO or both? Also, how have other schools responded to your application (ie many interviews/holds)?

Are you a reapplicant? Or is there anything else on your application - besides being non-trad - that would raise a flag (I'm not saying non-trad is a red flag - I'm a non-trad)?

GPA looks sharp (downward or upward trend?), MCAT isn't bad for DO schools (any retakes?), and you said the LORs were strong: did you have a committee letter? I don't believe you can read a committee letter. If everything else is in-line, this leads me to your personal statement/essays. Who knows, though.

PM me if you want objective advice on PS/essays.
 
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As of right now, 3.5+.

It's so hard to tell. Med school admissions is a total crap shoot.

What was your cGPA? What was your MCAT score breakdown? 26 is a good overall score, but I'm not sure if we rate certain aspects higher or not...
 
justaguy- i'm surprised you didn't even get an interview. Reading all of your stats and extracurriculars, I think applying late is the only reason as to why you didn't get an interview. I just don't see anything else that would stop you. When did you apply? When were you complete? I think you'll hear from other schools for sure, but if you don't get in this cycle for some reason, be sure to apply the first day next cycle to many schools and I see you getting many interviews. I had a good mcat but I had many issues with my grades (re-takes, one D..etc) and I feel like the mcat sort of balanced it out. I don't think you have to re-take the mcat...unless you are confident you can improve 3+ points. Good luck man
 
I'm really starting to believe this.



As I said earlier, oGPA is about 3.50. sGPA is 4.0.



It's not really a good score, but it should be good enough. My verbal is 2 points higher than the other two. I guess it is a tad lopsided, but not too bad.

Huh. If I had to guess, I'd say that we might put more stock in the Bio score than anything...but that's a pure guess based on the small sample of numbers that I know. GPA looks good. I'm also a non-trad and had crappy grades I had to make up for too...my finaly GPA wasn't as good as yours. Weird. Maybe you just applied too late. Also, 26 may just be a touch too low to be a sure thing this year. Our mean score goes up every year, and it must be inching closer to 30 by now.

In other news, I'm headed to the hospital today to get my heart arrhythmia ablated. I've had this damn thing since I was 16 or so, and it sucks, and I figured it's time to get it taken care of. Wish me luck. It's pretty low risk, but if I stop posting on SDN, you'll know why...:xf:
 
In other news, I'm headed to the hospital today to get my heart arrhythmia ablated. I've had this damn thing since I was 16 or so, and it sucks, and I figured it's time to get it taken care of. Wish me luck. It's pretty low risk, but if I stop posting on SDN, you'll know why...:xf:

Gah..! Good luck! You'll be totally fine of course - It surely requires considerably more to take out a Rock God than some pesky little heart arrhythmia...! :xf:
 
From my understanding, medical schools (at least the ones I have spoken to) look at the MCAT as:

BS > VR > PS

So, schools may look first at BS, then VR and finally PS. Some posts on SDN suggest VR as being a significant factor in MCAT analysis by medical schools.

justaguy's score distribution sounds like: PS 8, VR 10, BS 8. But I'm just guessing here :).

Whatever the issue justaguy, LECOM-B is just one school. You are not going to hit a home run with every school, but as the game nears the 9th inning you want that home run in the worst way. Keep your head up, there is still alot of innings left in this game.
 
I can't say I was really expecting that.

Because of the nature of PBL itself, Lecom-B looks for a certain "type" of student that can handle that "type" of learning. They have gotten very good at picking out these students. One of the Deans spends a whole lot of his time with the undergrad data of each applicant and follows every grade and board score each student has for four years. Based on the data already collected, there are certain things that they look for in each applicant. They do not publish what they are looking for so, indeed, it can look a lot like a crapshoot.... but it's far from that.

Apparently, based on the info they currently have, they don't believe that you can succeed as well as others in this unique environment. And while you might end up doing extremely well in a lecture-based environment, they could just be right and maybe PBL isn't right for you. It might actually turn out to be a good thing that they didn't offer the invite. Good luck wherever you end up :luck:
 
I am currently finishing up my secondary to LECOM-B... (yes, I know I'm late)... but it's my top choice (along with Erie)...due to the PBL curriculum... I want to make sure I get this across in my secondary, but I am feeling like this is a bit difficult due to the questions they ask. I have found a way to integrate the characteristics I have that I think would make me a good candidate for PBL into my essay that would make me a successful physician... but I'm still stuck on how to get the idea the LECOM-B is my top choice across. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

And please refrain if you just think I'm asking you to write my secondary... I already have a draft... I am just looking for suggestions from people who had success with LECOM-B
 
Gah..! Good luck! You'll be totally fine of course - It surely requires considerably more to take out a Rock God than some pesky little heart arrhythmia...! :xf:

And you are correct. Home now and recovering. Went really well...hopefully it's gone for good!
 
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