LUCOM (Liberty) vs LMU-DCOM

[BorntobeDO?]

Also have you been inside the LUCOM gym? It is nicer than any gym I have been to around 8 squat racks, 6 platforms, 5 flat benches, 7 basketball courts, 2 indoor soccer fields, indoor pool and a rock climbing wall.

No I didnt go in, but I do know LMU just opened a brand new 24 gym last month. I also am curious about what they lied to you about, will pm.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Is this gym exclusive to the medical school?? if so, thats why i thought it sounded a bit excessive. From ^post it sounds like the UG uses it too, so it sounds much more reasonable.

Its for both at Liberty

 

[evooo8]

Is this gym exclusive to the medical school?? if so, thats why i thought it sounded a bit excessive. From ^post it sounds like the UG uses it too, so it sounds much more reasonable.

Gym is accessible to all students even undergrads.

 

[evooo8]

No I didnt go in, but I do know LMU just opened a brand new 24 gym last month. I also am curious about what they lied to you about, will pm.

I heard. I haven't seen any pictures of it though.

 

[noleknight16]

Just because this keeps coming up I will clue you guys in:
The word in that text (the water to wine story) for wine means grape juice either fermented or unfermented, but not specified. However, it would be inconsistent with Leviticus 10 where God called the priesthood to not drink, to think that Jesus (a High Priest in the order of Melchisedec Hebrews ch 7) made alcoholic wine and especially that He drank it. Those saying that the Bible doesn't specifically forbid wine/alcohol (except for priests) are partially correct. However, it can easily be shown that in 1st Peter 2:9 that Christians "are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;"

So long story short, Christians are supposed to be sanctified unto Christ, and part of a royal priesthood, which in regards to alcohol means no drinking.

If you care to know more http://www.biblebc.com/Studies/Discipleship/HTMLLessons/wine_and_strong_drink.htm

That's quite an interpretation. Especially considering explicit OT law isn't practiced by Christians. Like others said, that's one interpretation among the rest. I think that interpretation you posted seems like a pre-drawn conclusion looking for any string of verses to support it.

Regardless, the rule is ridiculous. Liberty is a joke. The fact LUCOM even exists makes me question the leadership at AOA and COCA. If you choose Liberty, you will get an abysmal medical education. While you're having to worry about reporting alcohol possession among your classmates and being told the Earth is 6,000 years old, the rest of us will go get real degrees.

Good luck. I honestly hope you choose DCOM.

 

[user3]

If you choose Liberty, you will get an abysmal medical education. While you're having to worry about reporting alcohol possession among your classmates and being told the Earth is 6,000 years old, the rest of us will go get real degrees.

 

[IncuriousGeorge]

I don't know about you guys but I'm not choosing a school over another because of a gym.

 

[evooo8]

I don't know about you guys but I'm not choosing a school over another because of a gym.

I'm not choosing a school over a gym either. I'm just saying their gym is really nice, idk if I'll ever be in a gym as nice as that again haha

 

[IncuriousGeorge]

I'm not choosing a school over a gym either. I'm just saying their gym is really nice, idk if I'll ever be in a gym as nice as that again haha

I know, I was just trying to be goofy. I want a good gym or at least 24/7.

 

[asdf123g]

@HandsomeRob : Do you know anything about LUCOM's rotations? Also, are electives offered 3rd yr?

 

[j4pac]

Regardless, the rule is ridiculous. Liberty is a joke. The fact LUCOM even exists makes me question the leadership at AOA and COCA. If you choose Liberty, you will get an abysmal medical education. While you're having to worry about reporting alcohol possession among your classmates and being told the Earth is 6,000 years old, the rest of us will go get real degrees.

Should these universities also lose accreditation based on a religious affiliation?

Pikesville College School of Medicine (Presbyterian- DO)
Loma Linda University School of Medicine (Adventist- MD)
Univ of Indiana- South Bend (Jesuit- MD)
Creighton University (Jesuit- MD)
Georgetown University (Jesuit- MD)
Loyola University (Jesuit- MD)
Marian University (Jesuit- MD)
Saint Louis University (Jesuit- MD)
New York Medical College (Archdiocese of New York- MD)
Coming soon: University of the Incarnate Word (Jesuit- DO)

Or how about the Middle Eastern and Indian FMGs, many of whom attended medical schools which had affiliations with the Muslim and Hindu religions...should they be barred from our pure and agnostic residency programs?

 

[IncuriousGeorge]

Don't forget Campbell University Schools of Osteopathic Medicine (Baptist - DO)

 

[IncuriousGeorge]

Don't forget Campbell University Schools of Osteopathic Medicine (Baptist - DO)

But CUSOM and Campbell University is not technically the same.

 

[evooo8]

If LUCOM had graduated at least one class with at least average match results then I would chose them over LMU. But since they haven't I would chose LMU.

 

[Goro]

To be more accurate, IU's branch campus in South Bend is on the Notre Dame campus, but they're really tenants. They have no official affiliation with NDU other than site. The South Bend center is wholly operated by IUSM.

Univ of Indiana- South Bend (Jesuit- MD)

Touro University purchased NYMC from the Catholic archdiocese.
New York Medical College (Archdiocese of New York- MD)

Don't hold your breath.
Coming soon: University of the Incarnate Word (Jesuit- DO)

 

[user3]

Should these universities also lose accreditation based on a religious affiliation?

Pikesville College School of Medicine (Presbyterian- DO)
Loma Linda University School of Medicine (Adventist- MD)
Univ of Indiana- South Bend (Jesuit- MD)
Creighton University (Jesuit- MD)
Georgetown University (Jesuit- MD)
Loyola University (Jesuit- MD)
Marian University (Jesuit- MD)
Saint Louis University (Jesuit- MD)
New York Medical College (Archdiocese of New York- MD)
Coming soon: University of the Incarnate Word (Jesuit- DO)

Or how about the Middle Eastern and Indian FMGs, many of whom attended medical schools which had affiliations with the Muslim and Hindu religions...should they be barred from our pure and agnostic residency programs?

In many people's minds, LU is instantly synonymous with Jerry Falwell and anything involving the radical religious right.

 

[noleknight16]

Should these universities also lose accreditation based on a religious affiliation?

Pikesville College School of Medicine (Presbyterian- DO)
Loma Linda University School of Medicine (Adventist- MD)
Univ of Indiana- South Bend (Jesuit- MD)
Creighton University (Jesuit- MD)
Georgetown University (Jesuit- MD)
Loyola University (Jesuit- MD)
Marian University (Jesuit- MD)
Saint Louis University (Jesuit- MD)
New York Medical College (Archdiocese of New York- MD)
Coming soon: University of the Incarnate Word (Jesuit- DO)

Or how about the Middle Eastern and Indian FMGs, many of whom attended medical schools which had affiliations with the Muslim and Hindu religions...should they be barred from our pure and agnostic residency programs?

Seriously? I have zero problem with religiously affiliated schools. Difference is the schools on that list (for the most part) actually respect science and don't let religious garbage get in the way of educating their medical students. Liberty does neither of those. Can you show me where Georgetown's Creationism Museum is please? Did Jerry Falwell found NYMC? Does the administration at Creighton believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old?

 

[meliora27]

.

 

[j4pac]

Seriously? I have zero problem with religiously affiliated schools. Difference is the schools on that list (for the most part) actually respect science and don't let religious garbage get in the way of educating their medical students. Liberty does neither of those. Can you show me where Georgetown's Creationism Museum is please? Did Jerry Falwell found NYMC? Does the administration at Creighton believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old?

So the only thing I suppose you can accuse Georgetown of is hypocrisy...one of the few things worse than a Christian.

Have you ever been in a LUCOM class room? How do you know what is taught?

I've attended medical school. You know how many times I heard the words Darwin, natural selection, or creationism? The answer is none. The origin of the planet has little relevance on the subject of medicine and I highly doubt it is a subject discussed at LUCOM.

 

[Anthonyweiner]

The origin of the planet has little relevance on the subject of medicine and I highly doubt it is a subject discussed at LUCOM.

I can confirm, hasn't been discussed or implied

 

[Anthonyweiner]

let religious garbage get in the way of educating their medical students.

Can you give me an example of this? I've been to almost all the lectures and this hasn't happened.

 

[noleknight16]

So the only thing I suppose you can accuse Georgetown of is hypocrisy...one of the few things worse than a Christian.

Have you ever been in a LUCOM class room? How do you know what is taught?

I've attended medical school. You know how many times I heard the words Darwin, natural selection, or creationism? The answer is none. The origin of the planet has little relevance on the subject of medicine and I highly doubt it is a subject discussed at LUCOM.

I don't accuse Georgetown of anything, except being a good medical school with a religious affiliation.

You miss the point. Liberty University openly denies the scientific method in favor of religious fundamentalism. No medical school should be allowed with the anti-scientific views that Liberty has. Our profession is scientific in nature and the institutions that create the physicians should respect that fact.

And the religious fundamentalism has already spread to the medical school. I remember this "journal article" was posted last year:

"Developing character during medical education (719.14)

Character (qualities that determine one’s response to events regardless of circumstances) determines success and is important because of powerful influences physicians have on patients’ health and well-being. Medical education should endorse good character, e.g. compassion, empathy, discernment, generosity, honor, justice, self-control, truthfulness and virtue. Important for patient care, we designed a curriculum to promote character in future physicians. Curricular examples: Neurophysiology: Pornography addiction can destroy marriages, families and culture. Its addiction is taught to encourage a physician’s compassion and to facilitate physician-patient education of self-control and virtue. Cardiovascular: Prolonged stress, unresolved anger and CRH release with cardiovascular sequelae, lead to major health problems. Attentiveness and sensitivity are taught to recognize and treat stress preventatively, not only in disease. GI/Nutrition: Responsibility and self-control in diet, fitness,andwellness are promoted in students, as good examples for future patients. Anatomical Sciences: Unselfishness and self-control are important in a patient for healthy sexual relationships. Female reproductive tracts allow for pathology (sperm proteins accessing the bloodstream can drag endometrial cells into the Pouch of Douglas) if honor doesn’t restrain intercourse during menstruation."

 

[noleknight16]

Can you give me an example of this? I've been to almost all the lectures and this hasn't happened.

See my above post in reply to j4pac

 

[j4pac]

@Anthonyweiner can you confirm or deny whether that is how reproduction is taught.

 

[Anthonyweiner]

@Anthonyweiner can you confirm or deny whether that is how reproduction is taught.

We are currently in Endo/Repro right now. I do remember that it was mentioned intercourse during menstruation allows for the possibility of sperm dragging endomentrial cells into the rectounterine pouch potentially causing endometriosis. It wasn't in our powerpoints just mentioned so this is off the top of my head.

 

[meliora27]

We are currently in Endo/Repro right now. I do remember that it was mentioned intercourse during menstruation allows for the possibility of sperm dragging endomentrial cells into the rectounterine pouch potentially causing endometriosis. It wasn't in our powerpoints just mentioned so this is off the top of my head.

Do you get family planning lectures on abortions, OCPs, IUD, etc.??

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Do you get family planning lectures on abortions, OCPs, IUD, etc.??

Yes. We are being taught by doctors...

 

[Anthonyweiner]

I don't accuse Georgetown of anything, except being a good medical school with a religious affiliation.

You miss the point. Liberty University openly denies the scientific method in favor of religious fundamentalism. No medical school should be allowed with the anti-scientific views that Liberty has. Our profession is scientific in nature and the institutions that create the physicians should respect that fact.

To me, the religious influence here has really mostly affected the service aspect of being a physician. Science is important and no one here denies that. That doesn't mean we can't let our faith play a role in the type of doctors we want to become.

This year, LUCOM opened their Research Center - thats hardly and anti-scientific thing to do. The FASEB has a middle of the pack impact factor but it is still a peer reviewed journal none the less. That article will of course draw scrutiny because of its religious aspect and that understandable. However, we are still being taught by physicians and still being taught what is needed to pass the boards.

 

[allantois]

To me, the religious influence here has really mostly affected the service aspect of being a physician. Science is important and no one here denies that. That doesn't mean we can't let our faith play a role in the type of doctors we want to become.

This year, LUCOM opened their Research Center - thats hardly and anti-scientific thing to do. The FASEB has a middle of the pack impact factor but it is still a peer reviewed journal none the less. That article will of course draw scrutiny because of its religious aspect and that understandable. However, we are still being taught by physicians and still being taught what is needed to pass the boards.

Yeah, right? LUCOM will do a great job at producing bigoted physicians who could do some unimaginable harm to their patients by "letting your faith play a role". I can only imagine horrors a pediatric patient may go through if his/her physician to which he/she comes out to, would start recommending, if not exorcism, then some sort of conversion therapy. Or what about a woman who wants to get an abortion or go through IVF treatment? Medicine is no place for backward-thinking, judgmental individuals.

And as far as research at Liberty U goes, last time I checked your research department has been looking into proving that their creationist ideas have scientific basis to them.

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/arts-sciences/creation/

And on the final note:

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Yeah, right? LUCOM will do a great job at producing bigoted physicians who could do some unimaginable harm to their patients by "letting your faith play a role". I can only imagine horrors a pediatric patient may go through if his/her physician to which he/she comes out to, would start recommending, if not exorcism, then some sort of conversion therapy. Or what about a woman who wants to get an abortion or go through IVF treatment? Medicine is no place for backward-thinking, judgmental individuals.

And as far as research at Liberty U goes, last time I checked your research department has been looking into proving that their creationist ideas have scientific basis to them.

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/arts-sciences/creation/

And on the final note:

That is not our research department, this is: http://www.liberty.edu/lucom/index.cfm?PID=31883 and also: http://www.liberty.edu/lucom/index.cfm?PID=28248&MID=148342 for the research seminars LUCOM is currently conducting. Heres our areas of research:

1. Gastrointestinal physiology
2. Cardiac physiology
3. Neural physiology and pain management
4. Reproductive physiology
5. Immunological mechanisms
6. Human performance analysis

I do not see anything involving creationism.

I have a lot of studying to do so I'd rather not argue with you all day. Bottom line is physicians should be compassionate, tolerable of others' beliefs, and non-judgemental. That is how we are being taught. Looking at your comments, I question what you are being taught at your institution and the type of doctor you will become. I hope you don't treat your religious patients with the same disrespect you've been showing here.

 

[IncuriousGeorge]

That is not our research department, this is: http://www.liberty.edu/lucom/index.cfm?PID=31883 and also: http://www.liberty.edu/lucom/index.cfm?PID=28248&MID=148342 for the research seminars LUCOM is currently conducting. Heres our areas of research:

1. Gastrointestinal physiology
2. Cardiac physiology
3. Neural physiology and pain management
4. Reproductive physiology
5. Immunological mechanisms
6. Human performance analysis

I do not see anything involving creationism.

I have a lot of studying to do so I'd rather not argue with you all day. Bottom line is physicians should be compassionate, tolerable of others' beliefs, and non-judgemental. That is how we are being taught. Looking at your comments, I question what you are being taught at your institution and the type of doctor you will become. I hope you don't treat your religious patients with the same disrespect you've been showing here.

You may not see anything involving creationism but the answer to all these research is god, apparently to Liberty.

 

[Anthonyweiner]

You may not see anything involving creationism but the answer to all these research is god, apparently to Liberty.

Right...

 

[hallowmann]

LMU-DCOM. Its established. You can actually ask people who've graduated from there and go there now what its like the whole way through (not what a first year says, not what they are "planning" or what they "expect", but what its actually like). Most people who've I've talked to that were in the first or second class at a medical school don't recommend it.

I wouldn't choose LUCOM based on that reason alone. I know people at DCOM and they're happy, and at least you know what to expect from 2nd year, let alone 3rd and 4th.

Don't base any of your decision on what they say they are "planning" or what "should" happen. Those things are fluid no matter what they say. Counting each like a guarantee will be very upsetting/disappointing when one (or more) doesn't work out.

LUCOM might be a perfectly fine school, despite what people say. It may also be terrible. Its too early to tell.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

@HandsomeRob : Do you know anything about LUCOM's rotations? Also, are electives offered 3rd yr?

Here is the curriculum
LUCOM
Student Catalog
Page 49
OMS III
Orientation to Clinical Medicine 4 Credits
4-week blocks beginning on Monday and ending on Friday.
Last Friday of each rotation is set aside for end of rotation testing and OMM hands on experience.
2 Blocks of Family and Community Medicine 20 Credits
2 Blocks of Internal Medicine 20 Credits
2 Blocks of Surgery 20 Credits
1 Block of Women’s Health/OB-GYN 10 Credits
1 Block of Pediatrics 10 Credits
1 Block of Psychiatry/Behavioral Health 10 Credits
1 Block of Underserved Care 10 Credits
2 Blocks of Scholarly Activity 20 Credits
1 Block of Vacation OMS III
Total 124 Credits
OMS IV
Professional Development 3 Credits
4-week blocks with end of rotation examination and OMM practical sessions for the core rotations 1
Block of Emergency Medicine 10 Credits
2 Blocks of Hospital IM Selective 20 Credits
1 Block of Hospital Surgery Selective 10 Credits
4 Blocks of Elective 40 Credits
OMS-Year IV Total 83 Credits
OMS II-IV Independent Study Elective 2-8 Credits

Approved IM Selectives
Hospitalist Service, Cardiology, Pulmonology, Neurology, Nephrology, Critical Care Medicine, IM Service, Infectious Disease, Endocrinology,
Oncology-Hematology,Gastroenterology

Approved Surgery Selectives
General Surgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Gynecological Surgery, Urological Surgery, Oncology Surgery, Trauma Surgery, Transplant Surgery, Anesthesia Students may not do more than two electives rotations with the same preceptor and may not do more than two electives at the same hospital in the same discipline.

Centra Health Systems — Lynchburg, Farmville,
South Boston Johnson Health Clinics — Lynchburg, Amherst, Bradford, Campbell
Life Point Hospital Systems - Danville, Martinsville
Halifax Regional Medical Center - South Boston

They also talked about adding a Jacksonville Hospital in the interview

You can only do selectives at their approved sites, and electives can be audition sites but not just any physician you want. Electives are NOT offered third year from what I can see.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

LMU-DCOM. Its established. You can actually ask people who've graduated from there and go there now what its like the whole way through (not what a first year says, not what they are "planning" or what they "expect", but what its actually like). Most people who've I've talked to that were in the first or second class at a medical school don't recommend it.

I wouldn't choose LUCOM based on that reason alone. I know people at DCOM and they're happy, and at least you know what to expect from 2nd year, let alone 3rd and 4th.

Don't base any of your decision on what they say they are "planning" or what "should" happen. Those things are fluid no matter what they say. Counting each like a guarantee will be very upsetting/disappointing when one (or more) doesn't work out.

LUCOM might be a perfectly fine school, despite what people say. It may also be terrible. Its too early to tell.

This is what my thought process was and what I went with at the end of the day. You did a great job summarizing it for me. I decided that the downside of being mad at myself when things didn't work out how I wanted wasn't worth it. My deposit went to DCOM.

 

[touchpause13]

We are currently in Endo/Repro right now. I do remember that it was mentioned intercourse during menstruation allows for the possibility of sperm dragging endomentrial cells into the rectounterine pouch potentially causing endometriosis. It wasn't in our powerpoints just mentioned so this is off the top of my head.

I have not heard of any other schools teaching this

 

[j4pac]

I have not heard of any other schools teaching this

I did a lit review...and kept getting forwarded back to SDN!

 

[touchpause13]

I did a lit review...and kept getting forwarded back to SDN!

Yeah I'm very sure that is solely LUCOM research it's not something that has been published by a peer reviewed journal or anything like that. It's not an accepted fact about repro.

 

[allantois]

Meanwhile, at LUCOM:

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Yeah I'm very sure that is solely LUCOM research it's not something that has been published by a peer reviewed journal or anything like that. It's not an accepted fact about repro.

The FASEB is a peer reviewed journal

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Meanwhile, at LUCOM:

Right....

 

[AlteredScale]

Users are reminded to keep discussions civil and professional. Everyone is entitled to discuss their opinion on a topic but users are not allowed to instigate or attack a specific group.

 

[noleknight16]

Users are reminded to keep discussions civil and professional. Everyone is entitled to discuss their opinion on a topic but users are not allowed to instigate or attack a specific group.

TIL: Jerry Falwell would have been banhammered in one post on SDN.

 

[AlteredScale]

Moving to School Specific Discussions.

 

[Jwalker]

I have not heard of any other schools teaching this

It's more or less sampson's retrograde menstration theory.

 

[touchpause13]

It's more or less sampson's retrograde menstration theory.

Hmm
I actually had to look that up because I wasn't familiar with it. I'm still not convinced, and even if it were the cause, wouldn't the logical conclusion be to suggest wearing a condom during period sex? Shoot that seems like a valid idea regardless. The mention of honor and all that nonsense really kills any credibility for me.

 

[CajunMedic]

Should these universities also lose accreditation based on a religious affiliation?

Pikesville College School of Medicine (Presbyterian- DO)
Loma Linda University School of Medicine (Adventist- MD)
Univ of Indiana- South Bend (Jesuit- MD)
Creighton University (Jesuit- MD)
Georgetown University (Jesuit- MD)
Loyola University (Jesuit- MD)
Marian University (Jesuit- MD)
Saint Louis University (Jesuit- MD)
New York Medical College (Archdiocese of New York- MD)
Coming soon: University of the Incarnate Word (Jesuit- DO)

Or how about the Middle Eastern and Indian FMGs, many of whom attended medical schools which had affiliations with the Muslim and Hindu religions...should they be barred from our pure and agnostic residency programs?

You can add William Carey University COM (Baptist-DO) to that list. One of my classmates did his undergrad here. He asked his Biology professor about any issues with teaching evolution, the response was " xyz hall is the religion building, this is the science building, I don't go into theirs and tell them what to teach, they don't come into mine and tell me what to teach, end of story"

DCOM is the better choice for all the reasons listed already. I was waitlisted there and really liked it.

 

[deleted390966]

"Character (qualities that determine one’s response to events regardless of circumstances) determines success and is important because of powerful influences physicians have on patients’ health and well-being. Medical education should endorse good character, e.g. compassion, empathy, discernment, generosity, honor, justice, self-control, truthfulness and virtue. Important for patient care, we designed a curriculum to promote character in future physicians. Curricular examples: Neurophysiology: Pornography addiction can destroy marriages, families and culture. Its addiction is taught to encourage a physician’s compassion and to facilitate physician-patient education of self-control and virtue. Cardiovascular: Prolonged stress, unresolved anger and CRH release with cardiovascular sequelae, lead to major health problems. Attentiveness and sensitivity are taught to recognize and treat stress preventatively, not only in disease. GI/Nutrition: Responsibility and self-control in diet, fitness,andwellness are promoted in students, as good examples for future patients. Anatomical Sciences: Unselfishness and self-control are important in a patient for healthy sexual relationships. Female reproductive tracts allow for pathology (sperm proteins accessing the bloodstream can drag endometrial cells into the Pouch of Douglas) if honor doesn’t restrain intercourse during menstruation."

Wow, what anti-science/pseudoscience crap! I seriously question the leadership of AOA, COCA (and whoever helped accredit this school), too.
It is sad that THIS excuse of a school camouflages under the name of modern Medicine, and every year, I'm sure many bright students attend because it is their only one choice of becoming physicians. I am so wary of the kind of physicians this school will produce.

 

[asdf123g]

Wow, what anti-science/pseudoscience crap! I seriously question the leadership of AOA, COCA (and whoever helped accredit this school), too.
It is sad that THIS excuse of a school camouflages under the name of modern Medicine, and every year, I'm sure many bright students attend because it is their only one choice of becoming physicians. I am so wary of the kind of physicians this school will produce.

you make it sound like every person who attend the school will be instantly indoctrinated or something and believe that. Calm down hahahahah