Official 2013-2014 Help Me Rank Megathread

[coolnad17]

Trying to figure out my top 2:

Baylor (Houston) vs. UT Southwestern

Currently, i'm leaning towards Southwestern mainly because I am not sure what I want to do exactly, and feel that the reputation may open more doors in the future. However, I would be willing to give up the better reputation for a better lifestyle. I'd be happy in either city, and felt that the residents seemed happy at both programs.

What do you guys think?

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[gutonc]

Trying to figure out my top 2:

Baylor (Houston) vs. UT Southwestern

Currently, i'm leaning towards Southwestern mainly because I am not sure what I want to do exactly, and feel that the reputation may open more doors in the future. However, I would be willing to give up the better reputation for a better lifestyle. I'd be happy in either city, and felt that the residents seemed happy at both programs.

What do you guys think?

For the reasons you cited...flip a coin.

 

[visari]

Hello, I'm interested in pursuing Hem/Onc and am having a tough time with the middle of my list. Can I get a few opinions on how these programs stack up compared to each other in regards to IM training and ultimately securing a Hem/Onc fellowship in Chicago or Milwaukee (for family reasons)?

- CCF (4-6 residents per year to Hem/Onc at pretty solid programs, but are these residents top notch with PhDs, etc?)
- University of Kansas
- University of Louisville (Only seem to send 0-1 residents to Hem/Onc each year and usually stay at UL.)
- UTMB (Is being so close to MD Anderson a disadvantage? I'm not sure how/where the residents match in fellowships as I wasn't given a fellowship match list on interview day/can't find one online.)
- University of Cincinnati

Thank you!

If you're going for Hem/onc I think it's reasonable to go for CCF. Although you'll not get great IM training, it will open more fellowship opportunities for you. I'm not entirely sure how much of a good hem/onc exposure you will get at CCF as a resident given the unique nature of that place, but at least you'll get the name.

I'd stay away from UTMB period. Kansas has recently became an NCI designated cancer center, but take that with a grain of salt as there was a huge political pressure from the state to push for designation rather than a true achievement of the institution. It's a typical mid-tier Midwestern program. Nothing really stands out at Louisville neither for IM nor for hem/onc. Cincinnati has a good IM program (better than CCF) but their inhouse fellowships are on the weak side. The hem/onc program there is undergoing MAJOR changes (chief leaving, still searching for a new chief, faculty leaving and new ones coming) and when I last visited during the fellowship interview season, things were still pretty foggy over there. I'd stay away from it if you're aiming for hem/onc.

 

[wildcatsniper]

Thanks for your input. I tried to summarize my way of thinking/rationalizing ( I am a scatter brain ) below.

If I am wrong/seriously misinformed please advise 😀

UPMC: Fell in love with UPMC interview day. Felt the program provided a good balance of clinical training and research opportunities/training. Thought city-wise : Pittsburgh>> Durham >= Rochester ( dont kill me for the last comparison ) Thats why its as high on my list.

UChicago vs Cornell: UChicago is/was doing more of the research I am interested in(Why its higher than Pitt) plus quality of clinical training seems promising. Chicago is easier to live in than NYC. I heard you are not allowed to moonlight at Cornell? Don't know how Cornell did on the GI match this year. UChicago's GI match was worrisome this year but Im hoping to hear it was just lack of interest from the residents this year.

Mayo: Awesome research opportunities. However, felt their training was diluted a little bit with the 4+4 ( Am I wrong ? ). I want to get solid IM training, and once again felt I wouldnt see difficult cases at Mayo. Their match list is ridiculous though. Super easy to live in Rochester but Im single. That's why I ranked it in the 3-4 slot

Duke: Too strong of an inpatient training. Heard they are overworked and there wasn't as much time to do research. Lacked research opportunities in my area of interest. City was...meh but < Charlottesville > Birmingham. Felt they tried really hard to fool me interview day as far as their malignancy/intensity/cutthroat-ness ( Attempting to verify lack of malignancy )

UVa: Interview day was awesome. City seemed better on interview day than Durham. Residents were happy and liked having fun. Seemed to be time to do research. Unclear how they did on the match this year. I heard 12+ were applying into GI.

Really have no idea how to rank Maryland vs UAB vs UTSW. Thought Baltimore > Birmingham, with Baltimore having more of the research areas I wanted. I like how intense GI is at Birmingham though. As I am typing Im leaning UTSW > UAB > Maryland

Brown: Lets just say I wasnt impressed with it as I was with Maryland, but I'd rather live there over Cleveland.

Case: Awesome program. Just have my reservations over Cleveland.

Thoughts?

Update ROL: UChicago>Mayo>Duke>Cornell>Pitt>UVA>UAB>UTSW>Maryland>Brown>Case

Just FYI. If your goal is GI, I'd recommend against going to UChicago. They lost their Bigwig IBD GI guy Hanhauer to Northwestern who was basically holding up the entire UoC GI program.

 

[jdh71]

Just FYI. If your goal is GI, I'd recommend against going to UChicago. They lost their Bigwig IBD GI guy Hanhauer to Northwestern who was basically holding up the entire UoC GI program.

That might be a reason to consider a high rank for fellowship there anytime soon, but just because big name person leaves doesn't make your internal medicine program somehow now mickey mouse university all of a sudden.

 

[imMD2014]

Just FYI. If your goal is GI, I'd recommend against going to UChicago. They lost their Bigwig IBD GI guy Hanhauer to Northwestern who was basically holding up the entire UoC GI program.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Hanauer was a huge loss and its unclear why he left but the rest of the people there are still top notch and world renowned. Still has a top 3 IBD program regardless. Is there a reason you believe that Hanauer was the only good thing about the GI program there?

 

[jturkel]

The U Chicago GI program is still a good one, but it is not the same one it once was 10+ years ago. They still have solid IBD with Rubin.

 

[AbstractDOg]

I am really thinking about ranking University of Florida - Gainesville as my number 1. I am interested in doing either heme/onc or pulmonary/critical care and I know they take a lot of inhouse residents for fellowships. Can anyone comment on the quality of their IM training? What about their sub-specialty training in those fields? Thank you!

My other options are:

2. UIC - I like the IM program and they have a good fellowship match list. The cost of living in Chicago is very high though, and their benefits are not very good to help offset that.
3. LSU - I actually really liked the people here, but I know the program suffered quite a bit after Katrina. They do have a new hospital that will be opening in 2015 though.
4. UTMB - I liked the program, and they have a lot of fellowship options. I didn't get a very strong feeling about the quality of teaching though, but it's hard to tell in one interview day.
5. UT - Houston: did not like it there at all.
6. CCF - was very turned off by their IM program in general. Seemed like residents do a lot of scut work and not a lot of learning.

 

[Niviancer]

If you are going for hem onc, I'd rank UT Houston ~ UF > CCF > LSU ~ UIC

 

[ksm123]

Interested in Heme/onc vs GI though not 100% sure on fellowship. From the Houston area originally and other then trying to match near there for family reasons, no real geographic constraints. Beyond baylor #1, everything else is kind of up in the air as really all these programs were nice and i liked them about the same except loma linda and univ arizona which I did not like. In the end I ended up ranking them essentially on location and gut feeling. Not sure how all of these stack up academically/opportunities for fellowship after. Any help appreciated thanks!

1. Baylor
2. UT San Antonio
3. UT Houston
4. University of Illinois Chicago
5. Rush
6. University of Utah
7. University of New Mexico
8. University of Cincinnati
9. VCU
10. UC Irvine
11. Banner good samaritan
12. University of Arizona
13. Loma Linda

 

[visari]

Interested in Heme/onc vs GI though not 100% sure on fellowship. From the Houston area originally and other then trying to match near there for family reasons, no real geographic constraints. Beyond baylor #1, everything else is kind of up in the air as really all these programs were nice and i liked them about the same except loma linda and univ arizona which I did not like. In the end I ended up ranking them essentially on location and gut feeling. Not sure how all of these stack up academically/opportunities for fellowship after. Any help appreciated thanks!

1. Baylor
2. UT San Antonio
3. UT Houston
4. University of Illinois Chicago
5. Rush
6. University of Utah
7. University of New Mexico
8. University of Cincinnati
9. VCU
10. UC Irvine
11. Banner good samaritan
12. University of Arizona
13. Loma Linda

I'd put VCU and Cincinnati above New Mexico for sure.

 

[suigeneriss]

Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to rank UC Davis and USC with Pitt (UPMC). Interest is cards or pulm/crit, but prefer to remain in California. Based on program alone, I like UC Davis = Pitt > USC. However, factor in location and research/fellowship opportunities, and it gets confusing. Any thoughts would be helpful, thanks!

 

[Instatewaiter]

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[Instatewaiter]

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[jdh71]

I am really thinking about ranking University of Florida - Gainesville as my number 1. I am interested in doing either heme/onc or pulmonary/critical care and I know they take a lot of inhouse residents for fellowships. Can anyone comment on the quality of their IM training? What about their sub-specialty training in those fields? Thank you!

My other options are:

2. UIC - I like the IM program and they have a good fellowship match list. The cost of living in Chicago is very high though, and their benefits are not very good to help offset that.
3. LSU - I actually really liked the people here, but I know the program suffered quite a bit after Katrina. They do have a new hospital that will be opening in 2015 though.
4. UTMB - I liked the program, and they have a lot of fellowship options. I didn't get a very strong feeling about the quality of teaching though, but it's hard to tell in one interview day.
5. UT - Houston: did not like it there at all.
6. CCF - was very turned off by their IM program in general. Seemed like residents do a lot of scut work and not a lot of learning.

UF's pulmonary and crit is straight up legit, especially if you're into IP.

 

[twinhong2]

Maybe . . .

USC
MCW = CCF
Rush
OV
NSLIJ

Thank you for your input. May I ask you why NSLIJ is at the bottom? I persoally felt like the interview day there didn't give me a chance to thoroughly review the program. But at least from the fellowship perspective, it seemed better than OV or maybe even with Rush. Thanks!

 

[Kalimera87]

Hi everyone,

I’d appreciate any input and opinions on my list. I’m interested in cardiology and am not set on a particular location. What are your thoughts on reputation, quality of residency training, and opportunities for fellowships?

Top 3: I could see myself at all three schools, and my ranking of these three changes daily. Currently:
1. Wisconsin: I really liked Madison and the residents seemed content. Great opportunities for cards research and fellowship match is traditionally strong. 97% board pass rate. The program director, Dr. Vogelman, was a lot of fun and ran a tight ship.

2. UVA: Charlottesville is beautiful and the residents were among the most relaxed and content of any interview I was on. Residents routinely match into top cards programs—Michigan, Chicago, WashU, Penn, etc. I’m a little bit concerned about the patient population in the hospital’s cachement area.

3. Case Western (University Hospital): Great research opportunities (Top 12 for NIH funding), Cards matches at WashU, UTSW, Mayo, and Emory this year. Great patient population and residents all seemed to receive great training. Residents seemed harried and over-worked the day I was there and reported working over duty hours routinely. Cleveland is working on improving its image, but remains a bit of a drawback.

Second Tier:
4. Brown
5. Ohio State
6. Maryland
7. Minnesota
8. Dartmouth
9. Tufts
10. Rochester

Thank you and good luck in the match!

 

[Antiphosphatase]

Ok so I'm straight up confused about the top of my list. I'm trying to decide between OHSU, UCSD, Columbia, WashU, and Emory.
I'm looking for a program that's "laid back" (not cush!!!), is in a fun city, and will provide solid training. As for career prospects I could see myself doing GI or general IM.
My ROL at this moment:
1. OHSU
Pros: Got a good vibe, 3+1 is awesome, residents seem chill, PD seemed to genuinely care about the residents and their well-being, Portland is a great place to live.
Cons: Could be more diverse (both program and city), fellowship matches while solid aren't as great compared to other programs I'm considering

2. UCSD
Pros: San Diego is amazing, I clicked with the residents, lots of opportunities for research, great in-house fellowships
Cons: Training seems intense (though not excessively so), PD was hard to read, San Diego is kinda expensive

3. Columbia
Pros: Very impressed by the interns + residents (everyone I met seemed crazy smart), 2 attending structure is a plus, NYC can't be beat, amazing pathology, residents seemed fun, unparalleled post-residency opportunities
Cons: I felt intimidated (just a vibe I got, had nothing to do with people there), ancillary staff will make life harder, NYC is crazy expensive, program seems intense

4. WashU
Pros: Great turnout at pre-interview dinner with lots of interns, everyone was very friendly, program seems geared toward meeting residents' needs, 4+2+2 is a plus, research opportunities are plentiful, PD seems like a good guy, STL is affordable, reputation is top-notch
Cons: St. Louis, EMR is supposedly terrible

5. Emory
Pros: Loved the residents here, Atlanta is actually quite nice, Grady offers amazing pathology, fantastic fellowship track record
Cons: 4 hospitals (residents are spread out), seems like training is rough

Any thoughtful advice would be appreciated.

 

[akviv47]

Guys need your 2 cents please
Providence Portland vs University of Arizona South campus?
I hope to go for one of the more competitive fellowships, Cards or possibly Pulm-Critical Care.
Thanks!

 

[jdh71]

Thank you for your input. May I ask you why NSLIJ is at the bottom? I persoally felt like the interview day there didn't give me a chance to thoroughly review the program. But at least from the fellowship perspective, it seemed better than OV or maybe even with Rush. Thanks!

Why? Because it's NSLIJ. Not even a university affiliation. But if you liked it, then it doesn't really matter where some anonymous forum poster put them in a list.

 

[serialsevens]

Why? Because it's NSLIJ. Not even a university affiliation. But if you liked it, then it doesn't really matter where some anonymous forum poster put them in a list.

The patient population at North Shore alone should make your back arch like a cat (entitled doesn't even begin to adequately describe your average pt/pt family members; I have a sibling who did residency there). But FWIW, NSLIJ does have a university affiliation now - that new medical school at Hofstra.

 

[jdh71]

The patient population at North Shore alone should make your back arch like a cat (entitled doesn't even begin to adequately describe your average pt/pt family members; I have a sibling who did residency there). But FWIW, NSLIJ does have a university affiliation now - that new medical school at Hofstra.

The new medical school at where?

 

[serialsevens]

The new medical school at where?

Hofstra University in Long Island - link

 

[jdh71]

Hofstra University in Long Island - link

Where?

 

[serialsevens]

Where?

Facetious?

 

[jdh71]

Facetious?

clearly

 

[GTV]

Currently trying to figure out my 5 vs 6. Opinions on Yale vs Northwestern? Looking for solid IM training that will set me up well for a fellowship in either Pulm/CC or Cards. Interested in academics.

NW
Pros: Loved Chicago. Hospital is amazing. Research opportunities plentiful, and it seems like there are a lot of unique opportunities. Schedule seems pretty laid back compared to many other programs. Fellowship match list is astounding. Faculty seem extremely supportive and go out of their way to help residents achieve career goals.
Cons: Residents (and interviewers) seemed a bit elitist (e.g. "we've never interviewed anyone from your school... do they ever match graduates to programs like ours?"), idk if the training is too cush and won't adequately prepare me, NW didn't rank in top 18 this year in USNWR for IM residencies (and yes, many programs seem to brag about their rankings, so i have a hard time believing it doesn't matter)

Yale
Pros: Bigger name-brand status than NW, PD was awesome and very down to earth, pretty great clinician-educator track, residents seemed happy and not elitist at all, great fellowship match list (though not quite as great as NW)
Cons: New Haven absolutely sucks (one resident told a story about his friend getting attacked with a brick a block away from the hospital), rumors of malignancy (though I didn't get this impression while I was there)

I realize both are solid programs and that I may be splitting hairs here. Just looking for different perspectives than my own in case there are any strong opinions out there. Thanks.

 

[Ari1584]

Need help deciding between Michigan vs. Stanford for #5. I want to leave the Midwest but did not want to solely base the decision off of location. Interested in GI and I know Michigan is a GI powerhouse. The PD is an awesome guy and the program definitely seems very well-rounded. Every resident I spoke with was married or couples matched so it sort of skewed my perception of the residents that day. Loved the faculty that I interviewed with. Not sure how happy I would be leaving Chicago to live in Ann Arbor for three years but others seem to really like it there.

As for Stanford, I am not too thrilled with living in Palo Alto since its super expensive and isn't a big city. The PD was extremely nice though and was the only PD that actually came to the dinner the night before. The first thing a resident at the dinner said to me was "my life has not drastically changed at all since residency started, and i am pretty happy." Definitely a smaller program and am not too sure if I clicked with some of the residents I spoke with. Everyone really did seem happy though and residents say the surrounding areas by Palo Alto have more restaurants, bars etc.

Any perspectives as to choosing between these two programs? Thanks so much!

 

[gutonc]

Need help deciding between Michigan vs. Stanford for #5. I want to leave the Midwest but did not want to solely base the decision off of location. Interested in GI and I know Michigan is a GI powerhouse. The PD is an awesome guy and the program definitely seems very well-rounded. Every resident I spoke with was married or couples matched so it sort of skewed my perception of the residents that day. Loved the faculty that I interviewed with. Not sure how happy I would be leaving Chicago to live in Ann Arbor for three years but others seem to really like it there.

As for Stanford, I am not too thrilled with living in Palo Alto since its super expensive and isn't a big city. The PD was extremely nice though and was the only PD that actually came to the dinner the night before. The first thing a resident at the dinner said to me was "my life has not drastically changed at all since residency started, and i am pretty happy." Definitely a smaller program and am not too sure if I clicked with some of the residents I spoke with. Everyone really did seem happy though and residents say the surrounding areas by Palo Alto have more restaurants, bars etc.

Any perspectives as to choosing between these two programs? Thanks so much!

If Michigan and Stanford are going to be your 5 and 6, this is likely not a decision that will be particularly relevant.

 

[jdh71]

If Michigan and Stanford are going to be your 5 and 6, this is likely not a decision that will be particularly relevant.

I'm fast cycling again.

I hope someone talks me off the ledge. And soon.

 

[Bbon]

If Michigan and Stanford are going to be your 5 and 6, this is likely not a decision that will be particularly relevant.

It's funny that we got 2 straight posters asking for help on their 5th and 6th spots comparing 2 top programs. What an irrelevant question. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and assume their 1-4 is MGH, Brigham, UCSF and Hopkins.

 

[amine2086]

It's funny that we got 2 straight posters asking for help on their 5th and 6th spots comparing 2 top programs. What an irrelevant question. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and assume their 1-4 is MGH, Brigham, UCSF and Hopkins.

Agreed. SDN sometime makes me nauseated. That's why I always keep a stack of zofran in my pocket.

 

[ERASmus01]

Need help deciding between Michigan vs. Stanford for #5. I want to leave the Midwest but did not want to solely base the decision off of location. Interested in GI and I know Michigan is a GI powerhouse. The PD is an awesome guy and the program definitely seems very well-rounded. Every resident I spoke with was married or couples matched so it sort of skewed my perception of the residents that day. Loved the faculty that I interviewed with. Not sure how happy I would be leaving Chicago to live in Ann Arbor for three years but others seem to really like it there.

As for Stanford, I am not too thrilled with living in Palo Alto since its super expensive and isn't a big city. The PD was extremely nice though and was the only PD that actually came to the dinner the night before. The first thing a resident at the dinner said to me was "my life has not drastically changed at all since residency started, and i am pretty happy." Definitely a smaller program and am not too sure if I clicked with some of the residents I spoke with. Everyone really did seem happy though and residents say the surrounding areas by Palo Alto have more restaurants, bars etc.

Any perspectives as to choosing between these two programs? Thanks so much!

I have these programs back to back as well and am ranking Michigan higher for what I perceived to be stronger clinical training.

 

[gutonc]

I'm fast cycling again.

I hope someone talks me off the ledge. And soon.

Talks you off or pushes you off? Because I got no help for the former.

But these two threads will certainly help you with the latter.

 

[Deferoxamine]

If Michigan and Stanford are going to be your 5 and 6, this is likely not a decision that will be particularly relevant.

We've seen in years past that the top-heavy lists tend to fall the hardest.
Not completely uncommon for these folks to hit #5 or 6. I'd say 5-10% chance it could happen.

 

[GTV]

We've seen in years past that the top-heavy lists tend to fall the hardest.
Not completely uncommon for these folks to hit #5 or 6. I'd say 5-10% chance it could happen.

What, you rooting for me to fail? Let me tell you, I'm not in the top of the rankings, that's for damn sure. I'd be completely satisfied with any of my pics. My best choices aren't top 4 either. Hell, they're not top 10. Whatever. We'll see what happens come 3/21.

 

[GTV]

I just want everyone to get within their top 5. No hate here, that's for sure.

 

[Deferoxamine]

What, you rooting for me to fail?

No!
I'm legitimizing your question of #5 vs. #6.
I had a friend who was wined and dined by a Big 4 program. Promised a spot there. Didn't get it. And fell... hard.
Top-heavy lists are frequent. Lots of people want to live in the bay area or Boston or New York, with roughly 15-20 other programs out there that are picky in their own right. If a program goes down to #70 to fill a class of 30, and you're #71, that's basically the same as #250. If you're out, you're out.
The whole rank list matters.

 

[jdh71]

We've seen in years past that the top-heavy lists tend to fall the hardest.
Not completely uncommon for these folks to hit #5 or 6. I'd say 5-10% chance it could happen.

Then we really all need to be SUPER concerned about a Stanford vs Michigan choice in someone who likes them both . . .

I think we all know that you'll never land a GI or Cards spots out of either location. So why even worry about it.

 

[serialsevens]

Then we really all need to be SUPER concerned about a Stanford vs Michigan choice in someone who likes them both . . .

I think we all know that you'll never land a GI or Cards spots out of either location. So why even worry about it.

Dude. Wtf is up with all of the condescending, malicious insults? Jeezus it's just a bunch of applicants coming to this forum looking for help, not your ridiculously nasty attitude. Why are you so angry about something that impacts your life in zero ways?

 

[jdh71]

Dude. Wtf is up with all of the condescending, malicious insults? Jeezus it's just a bunch of applicants coming to this forum looking for help, not your ridiculously nasty attitude. Why are you so angry about something that impacts your life in zero ways?

It happens every single year and here it is again.

Have you ever heard the proverb: ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer?

If your "problem" is trying to figure out where to rank Stanford of Michigan 5 or 6, you DON'T have problems. And I think it's precious that anyone thinks they do.

The next time you think you have problems, google the news story about the UN report on torture in North Korea or may check out the recent videos of police in the Ukraine SHOOTING protestors. THOSE people have problems.

The real conundrums and people who need help are those with middle range programs where one might actually be able to find some distinction that matters.

The nice thing about this forum is that it lets you IGNORE everything I say, so if you don't like my commentary, perhaps you can just click the button.

Was there any other grievance that you wanted to air?

 

[pithecanthropus]

Ok so I'm straight up confused about the top of my list. I'm trying to decide between OHSU, UCSD, Columbia, WashU, and Emory.
I'm looking for a program that's "laid back" (not cush!!!), is in a fun city, and will provide solid training. As for career prospects I could see myself doing GI or general IM.
My ROL at this moment:
1. OHSU
Pros: Got a good vibe, 3+1 is awesome, residents seem chill, PD seemed to genuinely care about the residents and their well-being, Portland is a great place to live.
Cons: Could be more diverse (both program and city), fellowship matches while solid aren't as great compared to other programs I'm considering

2. UCSD
Pros: San Diego is amazing, I clicked with the residents, lots of opportunities for research, great in-house fellowships
Cons: Training seems intense (though not excessively so), PD was hard to read, San Diego is kinda expensive

3. Columbia
Pros: Very impressed by the interns + residents (everyone I met seemed crazy smart), 2 attending structure is a plus, NYC can't be beat, amazing pathology, residents seemed fun, unparalleled post-residency opportunities
Cons: I felt intimidated (just a vibe I got, had nothing to do with people there), ancillary staff will make life harder, NYC is crazy expensive, program seems intense

4. WashU
Pros: Great turnout at pre-interview dinner with lots of interns, everyone was very friendly, program seems geared toward meeting residents' needs, 4+2+2 is a plus, research opportunities are plentiful, PD seems like a good guy, STL is affordable, reputation is top-notch
Cons: St. Louis, EMR is supposedly terrible

5. Emory
Pros: Loved the residents here, Atlanta is actually quite nice, Grady offers amazing pathology, fantastic fellowship track record
Cons: 4 hospitals (residents are spread out), seems like training is rough

Any thoughtful advice would be appreciated.

Do you really hate St. Louis that much? I know you want a "fun city", but huge majorities of the populace have long lived happily in cities not named NY/Boston/SF/LA/Chicago on a good day/etc. Unless there's something you really love to do that simply can't be done in St. Louis, I think it's shortsighted to pay too much attention to being in a popular city. St. Louis is going to have quite a few more recreational opportunities than, say, Rochester, and probably more than you could actually pursue.

Some might argue for Columbia, but I'd say WashU is the best of these by a comfortable margin, location aside.

 

[jturkel]

Do you really hate St. Louis that much? I know you want a "fun city", but huge majorities of the populace have long lived happily in cities not named NY/Boston/SF/LA/Chicago on a good day/etc. Unless there's something you really love to do that simply can't be done in St. Louis, I think it's shortsighted to pay too much attention to being in a popular city. St. Louis is going to have quite a few more recreational opportunities than, say, Rochester, and probably more than you could actually pursue.

Some might argue for Columbia, but I'd say WashU is the best of these by a comfortable margin, location aside.

meh st louis is crappy. it has lost more than 60% of it's population since 1950 and currently has about the same number of people as it did in the 1870s-80s. it's practically a ghost town with lots of empty and condemned buildings. there is a reason why many people dont rank it as highly as the program is regarded. location counts for a lot.

 

[WaryWildcat]

Do you really hate St. Louis that much? I know you want a "fun city", but huge majorities of the populace have long lived happily in cities not named NY/Boston/SF/LA/Chicago on a good day/etc. Unless there's something you really love to do that simply can't be done in St. Louis, I think it's shortsighted to pay too much attention to being in a popular city. St. Louis is going to have quite a few more recreational opportunities than, say, Rochester, and probably more than you could actually pursue.

Some might argue for Columbia, but I'd say WashU is the best of these by a comfortable margin, location aside.

As a Midwesterner who has been to St. Louie many times, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this reasoning in its entirety. For one, besides Columbia, none of the programs he is ranking are in the cities you mention, so he's clearly open to living away from the big-name metropolises. Furthermore, no offense to anyone who's from there, but St. Louis may well be the most hatable city in the country; even independent of the fact that it's full of Cardinals fans, it's dangerous, and there isn't a lot to do (in fact, on the basis of its having superior outdoorsy access, I might argue that, say, Rochester has more recreational opportunities). I cancelled my interview there largely on account of the city, and it probably was the "best" interview that I was offered as well.

Look, WashU is a great place to train, there's no doubt, and it sets you up well for the next phase of your life. However, it's not like his career will go to die at OHSU, Emory, or UCSD, and it certainly won't go to die at Columbia. It's by no means shortsighted to pay attention to being in a great city, as you have to be happy enough wherever you are to perform well in residency. Does city play a role in this? You betcha.

FWIW I like his list the way it is, but I'm just a fellow applicant.

 

[Antiphosphatase]

I appreciate the responses.
Btw, I realize location is variably important to different people but given that I'm moving away from my home state I'd prefer that my surroundings be lively or at least vaguely exciting. And as I ponder these decisions I'm realizing more & more that reputation is not the be-all end-all.
This process is not rational, so your emotions/gut instinct should determine your rankings (as has been stated numerous times)
Anywho, to each his own.

 

[pithecanthropus]

As a Midwesterner who has been to St. Louie many times, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this reasoning in its entirety. For one, besides Columbia, none of the programs he is ranking are in the cities you mention, so he's clearly open to living away from the big-name metropolises. Furthermore, no offense to anyone who's from there, but St. Louis may well be the most hatable city in the country; even independent of the fact that it's full of Cardinals fans, it's dangerous, and there isn't a lot to do (in fact, on the basis of its having superior outdoorsy access, I might argue that, say, Rochester has more recreational opportunities). I cancelled my interview there largely on account of the city, and it probably was the "best" interview that I was offered as well.

Look, WashU is a great place to train, there's no doubt, and it sets you up well for the next phase of your life. However, it's not like his career will go to die at OHSU, Emory, or UCSD, and it certainly won't go to die at Columbia. It's by no means shortsighted to pay attention to being in a great city, as you have to be happy enough wherever you are to perform well in residency. Does city play a role in this? You betcha.

FWIW I like his list the way it is, but I'm just a fellow applicant.

No, Rochester truly is a dead zone. I could convince myself to do it because I've spent many years in small Midwestern cities, but I have no viable defense when my significant other starts to ask questions.

If he really likes Portland, by all means, but I'll never understand why people dump on St. Louis, Durham, New Haven and the like. If someone can't figure out how to stay entertained in any city with a population over 100,000 and a major undergraduate campus or two to boot, the problem is entirely with his own imagination. They have restaurants, bars, music, museums, pro sports, outdoor activities, etc., in St. Louis. They might have more in Portland (minus the pro sports), and nothing comes remotely close to New York, but how much of that can he reasonably expect to take in? Or, in New York and to a lesser extent in San Diego, how much will he be able to afford?

I'm sure many people would be happy in Portland. I'm also sure that a lot of people who think some other place is a dump would be happy in said dump as well once they figured out their niche in the landfill. People adjust.

 

[jturkel]

No, Rochester truly is a dead zone. I could convince myself to do it because I've spent many years in small Midwestern cities, but I have no viable defense when my significant other starts to ask questions.

If he really likes Portland, by all means, but I'll never understand why people dump on St. Louis, Durham, New Haven and the like. If someone can't figure out how to stay entertained in any city with a population over 100,000 and a major undergraduate campus or two to boot, the problem is entirely with his own imagination. They have restaurants, bars, music, museums, pro sports, outdoor activities, etc., in St. Louis. They might have more in Portland (minus the pro sports), and nothing comes remotely close to New York, but how much of that can he reasonably expect to take in? Or, in New York and to a lesser extent in San Diego, how much will he be able to afford?

I'm sure many people would be happy in Portland. I'm also sure that a lot of people who think some other place is a dump would be happy in said dump as well once they figured out their niche in the landfill. People adjust.

city is clearly personal preference.

 

[pithecanthropus]

No, Rochester truly is a dead zone. I could convince myself to do it because I've spent many years in small Midwestern cities, but I have no viable defense when my significant other starts to ask questions.

If he really likes Portland, by all means, but I'll never understand why people dump on St. Louis, Durham, New Haven and the like. If someone can't figure out how to stay entertained in any city with a population over 100,000 and a major undergraduate campus or two to boot, the problem is entirely with his own imagination. They have restaurants, bars, music, museums, pro sports, outdoor activities, etc., in St. Louis. They might have more in Portland (minus the pro sports), and nothing comes remotely close to New York, but how much of that can he reasonably expect to take in? Or, in New York and to a lesser extent in San Diego, how much will he be able to afford?

I'm sure many people would be happy in Portland. I'm also sure that a lot of people who think some other place is a dump would be happy in said dump as well once they figured out their niche in the landfill. People adjust.

And for what it's worth, the order of those schools in my list is:
UCSD (because they're much better than WashU at specific things that I care about)
WashU (best general medicine in the group)
Emory (lighter blend of both of the above)
Columbia (because the math is ugly; this is when I care about location)
OHSU (good general medicine, not good for my long-term interests)

 

[californiaXRT]

Could anyone help me rank these by academic reputation (assume no geographical preference)? Or is there not really a significant difference in tiers among the schools listed? I'm pretty sure I want to do fellowship, but I'm not sure which one yet, though cardiology or pulmonary is a possibility for me.

Thanks a lot.

1. Baylor
2. OHSU
3. UW-Madison
4. UVA
5. BU
6. UC-Denver
7. UMaryland

Baylor is the top of the heap of these

 

[amine2086]

As a Midwesterner who has been to St. Louie many times, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this reasoning in its entirety. For one, besides Columbia, none of the programs he is ranking are in the cities you mention, so he's clearly open to living away from the big-name metropolises. Furthermore, no offense to anyone who's from there, but St. Louis may well be the most hatable city in the country; even independent of the fact that it's full of Cardinals fans, it's dangerous, and there isn't a lot to do (in fact, on the basis of its having superior outdoorsy access, I might argue that, say, Rochester has more recreational opportunities). I cancelled my interview there largely on account of the city, and it probably was the "best" interview that I was offered as well.

Look, WashU is a great place to train, there's no doubt, and it sets you up well for the next phase of your life. However, it's not like his career will go to die at OHSU, Emory, or UCSD, and it certainly won't go to die at Columbia. It's by no means shortsighted to pay attention to being in a great city, as you have to be happy enough wherever you are to perform well in residency. Does city play a role in this? You betcha.

FWIW I like his list the way it is, but I'm just a fellow applicant.

I am also a fellow applicant. Besides the location, another thing that was a big turnoff for me at WashU is the EMR (or lack of it). Residency is hard enough even with a well run EMR. I have no interest in flipping through illegible charts during residency.