Program Specific Questions

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StlSportsFan said:
Any thoughts about Saint Louis University's IM program in comparison to Washington University in St. Louis's quality of education and relative competitiveness...
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Why would anyone try to compare Wash U. and SLU? Is it because they are both in STL? I think that might be the only thing they have in common because these two programs are not comparable in any other ways. Wash U.>>>>>>SLU regardless of how you slice it. Did I make myself clear?
 
Einstein-Montefiore intern here to answer questions

Hello all, night float is pretty quite this week and I need something to occupy my time. SDN is great for that😉 Fire your questions at me and I promise to be honest.
 
Well to be fair, SLU is a fine middle tier clinical program. It's not like you go to SLU and come out in three years a *****. Your academic opportunities become limited going forward though because that's the game, but if you're looking for a fellowship at the same tier or maybe pushing a bit above, then nothing is "wrong" with SLU at all.
 
alibai3ah said:
I am currently figuring out my rank list and thought some of you guys might help shed some light into Cornell's IM program and if some of these rumors are true.

1) Compared to some of the other NYC programs, I have heard Cornell has a more "private hospital" feel and some residents may complain about lack of autonomy. Is this true?
2) What is the quality of education on rounds if anyone knows? Are attendings good about teaching? What are other pros/cons of the program?

Thanks, I have talked to residents there about some of these questions, but #1 is definitely one I felt uncomfortable asking about. If there are any other residents/med students from Cornell on these forums, please let me know![/quote

You are talking about Cornell 10 years ago. There are a few private patients, but no more than 2-3/18 per list are allowed. In general, 90% of patients are cared for by hospitalists. In addition to rounds, teaching also in pm.
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jdh71 said:
Well to be fair, SLU is a fine middle tier clinical program. It's not like you go to SLU and come out in three years a *****. Your academic opportunities become limited going forward though because that's the game, but if you're looking for a fellowship at the same tier or maybe pushing a bit above, then nothing is "wrong" with SLU at all.
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True.

Comparing programs doesn't have to do much with the clinical training you're going to get. It's all about academic reputation and fellowship placement. They don't treat pneumonia or do chest pain r/o differently at Wash U than SLU. I'm pretty sure patients still die in the MICU at Wash U as well! but when comparing it's still Wash U >> SLU. It's just the way the system goes.

I have met brilliant physicians coming from community IM programs that are not even mentioned in SDN. I was also looking at famous people in the field that I'm going to (Hem/onc) and I was surprised to see that a good number of them are FMGs who did residency in mid-tier programs. I'm talking about leaders in the field here. Not saying that you have to settle down for less, but it's not like you're automatically going to be America's best doctor if you go to a top program, while you will be the ***** working at "Outside Hospital" if you go to a mid-tier or community program.
 
Could someone tell me more about Lenox Hill? In particular about its ACGME accreditation status? The PD recently sent an e-mail out saying its current status is "accreditation with warning" meaning it is currently accredited but will need to be reviewed by the end of January. The e-mail also said they have rectified the issues, and they expect the program to be fully accredited after this review.

Any thoughts? And any implications the fact that the program had to even go through this means? Thanks!
 
visari said:
True.

Comparing programs doesn't have to do much with the clinical training you're going to get. It's all about academic reputation and fellowship placement. They don't treat pneumonia or do chest pain r/o differently at Wash U than SLU. I'm pretty sure patients still die in the MICU at Wash U as well! but when comparing it's still Wash U >> SLU. It's just the way the system goes.

I have met brilliant physicians coming from community IM programs that are not even mentioned in SDN. I was also looking at famous people in the field that I'm going to (Hem/onc) and I was surprised to see that a good number of them are FMGs who did residency in mid-tier programs. I'm talking about leaders in the field here. Not saying that you have to settle down for less, but it's not like you're automatically going to be America's best doctor if you go to a top program, while you will be the ***** working at "Outside Hospital" if you go to a mid-tier or community program.
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I would guess that on average, if comparing residents at the same program, the FMG had better research and numbers than the AMG. So it's not surprising that once on an even playing field the FMG really excels (especially if you're evaluating on research which requires fewer "soft people skills" which are harder to learn when coming from a different country).
 
Instatewaiter said:
I will repeat what has already been said on this thread: passing the test has less to do with the residency and more to do with how the individual resident prepares. That is why people who should pass the test but don't study, don't pass
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I asked a program about its lower passing rate and they were pretty open about it. It has a med school, and favors its grads, even if they are high risk. It also said it was surprised by who failed. Some of the better performing residents failed, while lower performing ones passed.

My home institution has a lower passing rate, and I talked to someone, not at the IV, a casual conversation, she said the two people that she knows who failed, one knew he wasn't ready for it, but took it anyways, and the other had great Step scores, and kind of blew it off.
 
I recently interviewed at Western Michigan school of medicine, Kalamazoo and really liked the program.... i am interested in Pulmonary and critical care...with regards to fellowship placement and program reputation, where should I rank it in comparison to UAMS and Einstein, philly.. Thanks
 
Anyone have additional thoughts on Jefferson? Seems like people match well for a mid tier program but multiple private attendings is pretty concerning. (Also looking for intel on UVM, Temple and GW if anyone has anything). Thanks!
 
Re: STANFORD

I am still not sure what to feel about the program. Most people seem rather polarized. Yes, the institution as a great name. But how is the place for general internal medicine training compared to some of the "top ten" programs? I was not impressed by the morning report on my interview day (the interns barely contributed), but this may have been a skewed sample.

Thanks for your comments!
 
IMDKTR said:
Re: STANFORD

I am still not sure what to feel about the program. Most people seem rather polarized. Yes, the institution as a great name. But how is the place for general internal medicine training compared to some of the "top ten" programs? I was not impressed by the morning report on my interview day (the interns barely contributed), but this may have been a skewed sample.

Thanks for your comments!
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I got a great vibe at Stanford. It's a premier place for gen med training; the referral patters in the Palo Alto region make sure of that. The question you should ask yourself is: do you want to live in Palo Alto? If so, you can't go wrong with Stanford.
 
johncalvin said:
I got a great vibe at Stanford. It's a premier place for gen med training; the referral patters in the Palo Alto region make sure of that. The question you should ask yourself is: do you want to live in Palo Alto? If so, you can't go wrong with Stanford.
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Completely agree with this. Years ago it may have been different, but the current leadership places a big priority on general medicine training. Many of their grads now go into Gen Med. If you like the area from a geographic standpoint, you can't go wrong.
 
vcd1122 said:
Anyone have additional thoughts on Jefferson? Seems like people match well for a mid tier program but multiple private attendings is pretty concerning. (Also looking for intel on UVM, Temple and GW if anyone has anything). Thanks!
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Jefferson has a decent rep for a mid-tier program, so you'll be in decent position for most subspecialty fellowships. The private attending issue is a real one and would be a problem for me; you just have to decide for yourself how much it would bother you.
 
johncalvin said:
I got a great vibe at Stanford. It's a premier place for gen med training; the referral patters in the Palo Alto region make sure of that. The question you should ask yourself is: do you want to live in Palo Alto? If so, you can't go wrong with Stanford.
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Thank you for your input. I have family near the area and would certainly love to be close to them. I was just surprised by the polarity among opinions about the program. The residents seemed nice and I really liked the PD.
 
IMDKTR said:
Thank you for your input. I have family near the area and would certainly love to be close to them. I was just surprised by the polarity among opinions about the program. The residents seemed nice and I really liked the PD.
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I think you have some great reasons to rank it highly. It's a balanced program and I think getting your foot in the door earlier, rather than later, is the best way to approach Stanford if you have interest in staying in that area long term. I think Stanford is a great place to be an attending.

For the record, Witteles was one of my three favorite PDs from the trail a few years back.
 
What are everyone's thoughts on the University of Minnesota IM program - specifically compared to other Midwest programs with "stronger" names (Michigan, Mayo, Wisconsin, WashU, UChicago) in opportunities for fellowships? I'm thinking about GI or Heme/onc and leaning towards Minnesota for family reasons and really liked the program, however wouldn't want to go there if it was a large enough drop off in reputation strength for fellowship
 
onetwotwelve said:
What are everyone's thoughts on the University of Minnesota IM program - specifically compared to other Midwest programs with "stronger" names (Michigan, Mayo, Wisconsin, WashU, UChicago) in opportunities for fellowships? I'm thinking about GI or Heme/onc and leaning towards Minnesota for family reasons and really liked the program, however wouldn't want to go there if it was a large enough drop off in reputation strength for fellowship
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Most of those other places are "better" but UMinn is a solid program and you're probably not going to miss out on a subspecialty match just because you go there for residency.

On a related note...if you're looking at Minn for family reasons, would you leave there for fellowship somewhere else (assuming the family reasons persist)? If the answer is no, it doesn't much matter your ability to get fellowship elsewhere coming out of UMinn.
 
gutonc said:
Most of those other places are "better" but UMinn is a solid program and you're probably not going to miss out on a subspecialty match just because you go there for residency.

On a related note...if you're looking at Minn for family reasons, would you leave there for fellowship somewhere else (assuming the family reasons persist)? If the answer is no, it doesn't much matter your ability to get fellowship elsewhere coming out of UMinn.
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+1

Important to know if you would be interested in leaving Minn for a HONC/GI fellowship. I would say, though, that if you really want to end up in Minny then I would probably push you toward Mayo first, U of M second, unless you absolutely have to be in the Cities. But Mayo is going to bust some doors wide open for you that will be nudged open by U of M from a GI/HONC standpoint.

If you don't necessarily have to be in Minny, but prefer the Midwest in general, I personally liked UChicago/Michigan [toss a coin based on your preferences in terms of location, but they have very similar training styles and cultures], then WashU [didn't bother applying], then Wisconsin.
 
onetwotwelve said:
What are everyone's thoughts on the University of Minnesota IM program - specifically compared to other Midwest programs with "stronger" names (Michigan, Mayo, Wisconsin, WashU, UChicago) in opportunities for fellowships? I'm thinking about GI or Heme/onc and leaning towards Minnesota for family reasons and really liked the program, however wouldn't want to go there if it was a large enough drop off in reputation strength for fellowship
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Importantly, though, regardless of what you pick you've already done a great job in picking out the best Midwest programs, IMO.
 
gutonc said:
Most of those other places are "better" but UMinn is a solid program and you're probably not going to miss out on a subspecialty match just because you go there for residency.

On a related note...if you're looking at Minn for family reasons, would you leave there for fellowship somewhere else (assuming the family reasons persist)? If the answer is no, it doesn't much matter your ability to get fellowship elsewhere coming out of UMinn.
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tallash said:
+1

Important to know if you would be interested in leaving Minn for a HONC/GI fellowship. I would say, though, that if you really want to end up in Minny then I would probably push you toward Mayo first, U of M second, unless you absolutely have to be in the Cities. But Mayo is going to bust some doors wide open for you that will be nudged open by U of M from a GI/HONC standpoint.

If you don't necessarily have to be in Minny, but prefer the Midwest in general, I personally liked UChicago/Michigan [toss a coin based on your preferences in terms of location, but they have very similar training styles and cultures], then WashU [didn't bother applying], then Wisconsin.
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Thanks - yeah my impression was that most of the fellowship opportunities out of UMinn would be internal, where as the other ones could offer more in terms of being able to send you more places around the country
 
tallash said:
+1

But Mayo is going to bust some doors wide open for you that will be nudged open by U of M from a GI/HONC standpoint.
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Come on, thats just not true, at least in the GI world.
 
IM2GI said:
Come on, thats just not true, at least in the GI world.
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Reality suggests otherwise by pretty much every measure. My attendings in GI routinely rave about Mayo; it is ranked more highly, it has a better fellowship match. I stand by my comment until you can prove otherwise.

Mayo:
http://www.mayo.edu/mayo-edu-docs/m...l-education-documents/im-fellowships-2013.pdf

Minny (click fellowship placement):
http://www.dom.umn.edu/education/in...program/internal-medicine-residents/index.htm
 
tallash said:
Reality suggests otherwise by pretty much every measure. My attendings in GI routinely rave about Mayo; it is ranked more highly, it has a better fellowship match. I stand by my comment until you can prove otherwise.

Mayo:
http://www.mayo.edu/mayo-edu-docs/m...l-education-documents/im-fellowships-2013.pdf

Minny (click fellowship placement):
http://www.dom.umn.edu/education/in...program/internal-medicine-residents/index.htm
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Sorry I must have misunderstood you. I thought you referring to Michigan not Minnesota. Lots of "U of M" out there.
 
IM2GI said:
Sorry I must have misunderstood you. I thought you referring to Michigan not Minnesota. Lots of "U of M" out there.
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The OP in question was specifically asking about UMinn in relation to other "stronger" programs (including Mayo and Michigan).
 
I am torn between Albert Einstein Philly and Western Michigan Univ , Kalamazoo...I had posted previously but did not get any replies... I couldn't find much on Western Michigan (KCMS/MSU) after searching most of the old threads.... I really liked the faculty/residents at Western Michigan, but when compared to Einstein Philly the fellowship match rate seems to be much less.I want to do P/CCM and since its becoming more competitive by the day , will I be at a disadvantage if I go to Wmich. Guys please help out...
 
Any thoughts about Yale's IM program? Reputation wise, clinical training. etc? Interested in GI. Also considering Michigan for same things. No one at where I'm at is familiar with Yale so I would appreciate ANY and all information regarding Yale. Thanks so much!
 
slugjat said:
Any thoughts about Yale's IM program? Reputation wise, clinical training. etc? Interested in GI. Also considering Michigan for same things. No one at where I'm at is familiar with Yale so I would appreciate ANY and all information regarding Yale. Thanks so much!
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Its a fine program. Michigan is in another tier though, especially for a GI person.
 
trying to decide on UCLA vs Yale- interested in GI and loved both programs. any thoughts?
 
Red470 said:
trying to decide on UCLA vs Yale- interested in GI and loved both programs. any thoughts?
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Same thing I just told the other guy.
 
onetwotwelve said:
Thanks - yeah my impression was that most of the fellowship opportunities out of UMinn would be internal, where as the other ones could offer more in terms of being able to send you more places around the country
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The thing to note about UMinn that confuses this a bit is that people from the area want to stay in the area. I mean its like this black hole that if you're from there you never leave there and if you do, you always come back. Medicine is fine at UMinn. It has reasonable national prestige and you can land fellowship matches fine enough BUT most people simply do not want to leave and since they have nice training for fellowship too. Why not.
 
Any thoughts on fellowship opportunities after residency at the Cleveland Clinic?
 
RealMed said:
Any thoughts on fellowship opportunities after residency at the Cleveland Clinic?
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I think CCF needs its own stickies thread.

Look. You'll find a fellowship if you go to the Cleveland clinic. You might even find a really good one (but probably just a regular one, like most people do). It's not like its some end if the road program.
 
Thoughts on GWU? Pros, cons? Specifically, thoughts on why it's not considered a very strong program on SDN? Any opinions and insights would be appreciated, thanks!
 
Don't mean to belabor this, but anyone else have any thoughts about penn? I've heard contradicting comments about the vibe there...some say that residents are content, collegial, and tightly knit, while others have commented on getting a weird vibe and thinking the place was a bit malignant. I personally got a funny vibe and was not sure how happy residents were, but don't know what to make of it.

Also, can anyone with knowledge about stanford comment on the program? I got a very good vibe and it seemed to be very thoughtful about your education while giving you space and flexibility to think about things outside of clinical medicine, but I start hearing things about it being a more "cookie cutter" program with residents not being active during report and the clinical training being subpar.
 
jcr123 said:
Don't mean to belabor this, but anyone else have any thoughts about penn? I've heard contradicting comments about the vibe there...some say that residents are content, collegial, and tightly knit, while others have commented on getting a weird vibe and thinking the place was a bit malignant. I personally got a funny vibe and was not sure how happy residents were, but don't know what to make of it.

Also, can anyone with knowledge about stanford comment on the program? I got a very good vibe and it seemed to be very thoughtful about your education while giving you space and flexibility to think about things outside of clinical medicine, but I start hearing things about it being a more "cookie cutter" program with residents not being active during report and the clinical training being subpar.
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There's a thread discussing Penn here. It's confusingly titled..."Penn". Both eastcoastIM [a Penn resident] and myself [a resident elsewhere who interviewed at Penn] discuss it in good detail. We both liked it. Stanford was discussed here. I ranked Penn much more highly than Stanford but n=1.
 
jcr123 said:
Don't mean to belabor this, but anyone else have any thoughts about penn? I've heard contradicting comments about the vibe there...some say that residents are content, collegial, and tightly knit, while others have commented on getting a weird vibe and thinking the place was a bit malignant. I personally got a funny vibe and was not sure how happy residents were, but don't know what to make of it.

Also, can anyone with knowledge about stanford comment on the program? I got a very good vibe and it seemed to be very thoughtful about your education while giving you space and flexibility to think about things outside of clinical medicine, but I start hearing things about it being a more "cookie cutter" program with residents not being active during report and the clinical training being subpar.
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The answer to your question is right there in the middle of your question. I've bolded it to make the answer more obvious.

This is probably going to come as a surprise to you but it's possible and completely legitimate for 2 different people to have differing opinions on different programs and how they would fit in there. Aside from (deserved) reputations as "Top X" or "very, very good" programs, it's hard to find 2 programs less alike than Penn and Stanford. Neither one of them will limit your ability to learn medicine or get a fellowship/job in and of themselves. But if one is a good learning experience for you and the other makes you want to stab your eyes out with a 14g angiocath every night then one of those places is clearly better...for you.
 
gutonc said:
The answer to your question is right there in the middle of your question. I've bolded it to make the answer more obvious.

This is probably going to come as a surprise to you but it's possible and completely legitimate for 2 different people to have differing opinions on different programs and how they would fit in there. Aside from (deserved) reputations as "Top X" or "very, very good" programs, it's hard to find 2 programs less alike than Penn and Stanford. Neither one of them will limit your ability to learn medicine or get a fellowship/job in and of themselves. But if one is a good learning experience for you and the other makes you want to stab your eyes out with a 14g angiocath every night then one of those places is clearly better...for you.
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Thanks for the those thoughts. Yes, I understand that different people may have differing opinions. It's more about how much stock I should put into my experiences on interview day vs what actually is true about the programs. I think Stanford put much more effort into selling their program on interview day and the PD was much warmer than the PD at Penn, which (along with the weather) contributed much to the positive vibe that I got. The energy/forward thinking culture of the university is also very attractive. But sdn and other advisers made it seem like 1) Stanford is actually more of a cookie cutter program where residents aren't very active and 2) the clinical training may actually be subpar and will be looked upon as such by fellowship programs/employers

Penn, on the other hand, has all the right things on paper and the written comments about the culture sound very attractive. But that was not the impression that I got on interview day + from the rumor mill, which makes it a bit confusing about what is actually true. I'm trying to distinguish b/t whether 1) stanford just did a much better job selling their program but in reality Penn is the better program or 2) there actually is some truth to what I saw on interview day.
 
jcr123 said:
Thanks for the those thoughts. Yes, I understand that different people may have differing opinions. It's more about how much stock I should put into my experiences on interview day vs what actually is true about the programs. I think Stanford put much more effort into selling their program on interview day and the PD was much warmer than the PD at Penn, which (along with the weather) contributed much to the positive vibe that I got. The energy/forward thinking culture of the university is also very attractive. But sdn and other advisers made it seem like 1) Stanford is actually more of a cookie cutter program where residents aren't very active and 2) the clinical training may actually be subpar and will be looked upon as such by fellowship programs/employers

Penn, on the other hand, has all the right things on paper and the written comments about the culture sound very attractive. But that was not the impression that I got on interview day + from the rumor mill, which makes it a bit confusing about what is actually true. I'm trying to distinguish b/t whether 1) stanford just did a much better job selling their program but in reality Penn is the better program or 2) there actually is some truth to what I saw on interview day.
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Well you're basically back to where you started then. Do you...
a) Believe your own personal experience?
b) Believe what you've heard?

Your call bro...nobody's going to be stuck there for 3 years but you.
 
gutonc said:
Well you're basically back to where you started then. Do you...
a) Believe your own personal experience?
b) Believe what you've heard?

Your call bro...nobody's going to be stuck there for 3 years but you.
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I agree with all of this. The bottom line is that both are highly respected programs from which you will leave well trained. I preferred Stanford over Penn myself and think the clinical training is at least as good, with some other unique opportunities there. But I wouldn't fault anyone who chose Penn over Stanford in any way, and you'll be extremely competitive for jobs and fellowships coming out of either one.

I would echo gutonc's sentiment that within a given caliber of program you should trust your own judgment -- both because you know yourself better than we do and because (frankly) much of the advice given on these forums is probably based on outdated information anyway.

Good luck. Choosing between Stanford and Penn is a nice problem to have.
 
I need some help in deciding between BIDMC vs. Mount Sinai for my #2. I am putting MGH #1 and will likely end up at my #2 so I want to make the right decision. I have lived in Chicago my whole life and definitely want to move to the East Coast. I am interested in GI, possibly academics or being a clinician educator. I am in my late 20's, single and love to go out and am pretty social when I have time. Both of these programs are in great cities, both expensive locations. I fell in love with NYC when I rotated there for a month , and I am just trying to decide if that's where I would be happy for three years, not just for the month that I spent there. Any thoughts on the comparisons between these two?
 
Ari1584 said:
I need some help in deciding between BIDMC vs. Mount Sinai for my #2. I am putting MGH #1 and will likely end up at my #2 so I want to make the right decision. I have lived in Chicago my whole life and definitely want to move to the East Coast. I am interested in GI, possibly academics or being a clinician educator. I am in my late 20's, single and love to go out and am pretty social when I have time. Both of these programs are in great cities, both expensive locations. I fell in love with NYC when I rotated there for a month , and I am just trying to decide if that's where I would be happy for three years, not just for the month that I spent there. Any thoughts on the comparisons between these two?
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Pretty similar caliber programs, BI slightly higher in reputation overall but not a big difference. If you prefer NYC, you certainly wouldn't be making a mistake to go with Sinai above BI.
 
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