The WWatering Hole Bar Grand Opening - Game Thread.

[WildZoo]

whoops. Yup. The wolves checked dubz that night and you checked ski, apparently I notified them both when before I was only notifying *your* seeks (so that it didn't leave a trail of "cleared" people from the wolves).

Aw, they wanted to convert me?

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[britzen]

Aw, they wanted to convert me?

We tried to convert you at least twice....

 

[Trilt]

I kinda thought it was part of the game play, but I also thought I better apologise as well just in case. That is one thing I'm still not entirely used to in WW, knowing what is in game shenanigans and what is people being genuinely annoyed or upset on a personal level. When you RP there's a clear delineation between the two, as in there's a big difference between someone being angry at you when they're in character and someone prefacing a post with 'OOC' and then telling you how they really feel. Every game I still keep wanting to preface things with the letters 'IC' and 'OOC'.

just assume it's in the game unless proven otherwise. I've definitely had times where I'm in a knock down drag out argument with someone on the WW thread while chit chatting about random crap on fb or whatnot. People know it's a game, and even if it ends up going a bit far, just talk and hash it out later.

 

[finnickthedog]

Speaking of my role, my only minor complaint is that I wish my role had been a little bit more clear about what the heck I was doing. Had no clue what my role did or how I was supposed to use it. I mean, I didn't need it spelled out but the way my role was worded didn't even indicate that I was looking for someone (although I deduced that was probably the case from the first night results). And also, when looking for one, specific person it helps to have some idea of what type of person I'm looking for... otherwise it's just rattling off random names and kind of becomes an exercise in frustration as it just doesn't do anything with the added bonus of not even knowing what the goal is. Even when you know exactly who you're looking for, it's hard to find them so it's extra hard when you have absolutely zero clue. Js.

 

[Trilt]

Speaking of my role, my only minor complaint is that I wish my role had been a little bit more clear about what the heck I was doing. Had no clue what my role did or how I was supposed to use it. I mean, I didn't need it spelled out but the way my role was worded didn't even indicate that I was looking for someone (although I deduced that was probably the case from the first night results). And also, when looking for one, specific person it helps to have some idea of what type of person I'm looking for... otherwise it's just rattling off random names and kind of becomes an exercise in frustration as it just doesn't do anything with the added bonus of not even knowing what the goal is. Even when you know exactly who you're looking for, it's hard to find them so it's extra hard when you have absolutely zero clue. Js.

Unfortunately, it kinda had to be kept vague so that if the wolves had gotten to Snowy before you, it wouldn't screw them over on their convert.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Unfortunately, it kinda had to be kept vague so that if the wolves had gotten to Snowy before you, it wouldn't screw them over on their convert.

Them are fun times.

 

[britzen]

Unfortunately, it kinda had to be kept vague so that if the wolves had gotten to Snowy before you, it wouldn't screw them over on their convert.

So what you're saying is that all of those names we submitted after snowy died were, in fact, in vain?

 

[finnickthedog]

Unfortunately, it kinda had to be kept vague so that if the wolves had gotten to Snowy before you, it wouldn't screw them over on their convert.

I kinda get where it came from, I'm just saying that from a player perspective it was not a fun role to have. By about the third night I kind of didn't want to bother with it anymore and had I (and Snowy) not died I probably would have given up on it at some point. There's not a lot of motivation when you have no idea what your goal is.

 

[WildZoo]

I kinda thought it was part of the game play, but I also thought I better apologise as well just in case. That is one thing I'm still not entirely used to in WW, knowing what is in game shenanigans and what is people being genuinely annoyed or upset on a personal level. When you RP there's a clear delineation between the two, as in there's a big difference between someone being angry at you when they're in character and someone prefacing a post with 'OOC' and then telling you how they really feel. Every game I still keep wanting to preface things with the letters 'IC' and 'OOC'.

Taking my um...disagreement with @SummerTheLynx as an example
I was definitely angry at him with every fiber of my being, not the first time that's happened, won't be the last. So I wouldn't say it was necessarily an "in character" thing. But it also wasn't strategy or anything...that was how I actually felt. It's just that, I know it's a game, so irl I get over it and move on.

Besides, I get to tell him he was wrong anyway

 

[Melchizedek]

So what you're saying is that all of those names we submitted after snowy died were, in fact, in vain?

I already told you, nothing is ever in vain it’s all in the pursuit of Trilt’s and my amusement

 

[Trilt]

So what you're saying is that all of those names we submitted after snowy died were, in fact, in vain?

 

[WildZoo]

So what you're saying is that all of those names we submitted after snowy died were, in fact, in vain?

Ahem. Called it.

 

[Trilt]

Taking my um...disagreement with @SummerTheLynx as an example
I was definitely angry at him with every fiber of my being, not the first time that's happened, won't be the last. So I wouldn't say it was necessarily an "in character" thing. But it also wasn't strategy or anything...that was how I actually felt. It's just that, I know it's a game, so irl I get over it and move on.

Besides, I get to tell him he was wrong anyway

Oh man, STL is a fantastic example. I adore him and still want to strangle him basically every game we play together.

 

[DVMDream]

So what you're saying is that all of those names we submitted after snowy died were, in fact, in vain?

Yeah, this was a crap mechanic IMO... here wolves you get one conversion if you can find the one person oh and hope that person isn't already sketchy to all hell.

The point of a wolf conversion is to be able to get someone that isn't already on the verge of self destruction and maybe someone with an ability or something that helps them seem villager since wolves don't have much typically to seem village on.

 

[Trilt]

Yeah, this was a crap mechanic IMO... here wolves you get one conversion if you can find the one person oh and hope that person isn't already sketchy to all hell.

The point of a wolf conversion is to be able to get someone that isn't already on the verge of self destruction and maybe someone with an ability or something that helps them seem villager since wolves don't have much typically to seem village on.

with the numbers and design, 4 wolves was a little low and 5 a bit high. Mel wanted the four horsemen as originals. tried to balance by making the convert very conditional and your abilities quite villager-y. I think it played out pretty decently tbh.

 

[britzen]

Yeah, this was a crap mechanic IMO... here wolves you get one conversion if you can find the one person oh and hope that person isn't already sketchy to all hell.

The point of a wolf conversion is to be able to get someone that isn't already on the verge of self destruction and maybe someone with an ability or something that helps them seem villager since wolves don't have much typically to seem village on.

I literally would have taken anybody at the end, no matter how sketchy or unhelpful, just to shove them under a bus

 

[Animal Midwife]

I literally would have taken anybody at the end, no matter how sketchy or unhelpful, just to shove them under a bus

Is convert bussing a clearing mechanism?

 

[DVMDream]

with the numbers and design, 4 wolves was a little low and 5 a bit high. Mel wanted the four horsemen as originals. tried to balance by making the convert very conditional and your abilities quite villager-y. I think it played out pretty decently tbh.

What villager-y abilities? Only allie had one, everyone thought Britz ability was wolf-y as well and heck mine sure wasn't village-y... can't recall if genny had a specific ability now. So one villager-y ability, double kills if we could find the right players.

Stacked up against... protector, a "seer", items, a night cancel, resurrection, BBC/PBC being connected, etc.

It was fairly off-set, but it should be, it should be harder for wolves to win, that is why I am impressed we got as far as we did.

 

[finnickthedog]

Is convert bussing a clearing mechanism?

Not if they're super sketch.

 

[britzen]

Is convert bussing a clearing mechanism?

When there's only 5 players left, it can't hurt, right?

 

[DVMDream]

What villager-y abilities? Only allie had one, everyone thought Britz ability was wolf-y as well and heck mine sure wasn't village-y... can't recall if genny had a specific ability now. So one villager-y ability, double kills if we could find the right players.

Stacked up against... protector, a "seer", items, a night cancel, resurrection, BBC/PBC being connected, etc.

It was fairly off-set, but it should be, it should be harder for wolves to win, that is why I am impressed we got as far as we did.

Oh and the dead boosting abilities... which so happened to help the villagers only.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Oh and the dead boosting abilities... which so happened to help the villagers only.

genny tried...

 

[DVMDream]

genny tried...

Meh, I am already not a fan of the dead having any impact on the game at all. And this really reaffirmed my opinion on that. The dead can have way too much impact and sway the game away from one side and toward another side. I don't care if the dead all chat about the game, but having any ability placed within the game, I am not a fan of it, unless you, as a mod, can guarantee that it won't be predominately used for only villager help or only wolf help.... which good luck figuring out how to make that work out.

 

[Trilt]

Only allie had one

Allie was a tracker and didn't have to out the fact that she got role seering with it... that is a classically village role.

everyone thought Britz ability was wolf-y as well

this is absolutely not true. Her ability got people off her ass for a couple days... when in the world is a PMer wolfy?

can't recall if genny had a specific ability now.

Genny was a jailer, which is also classically village (but swings more on SDN).

Point was, there was only one village "seer" - who was a classically wolf/chaotic role and nearly got lynched for it - and you were the only wolf who could be screwed over by the only seer in the game. Bad luck (and @raf2769) got ya looked into.

protector, a "seer", items, a night cancel, resurrection, etc.

Protector couldn't protect self or same person more than once. Seer mentioned above. Tinkerer was chaos. One single rez.

Oh and the dead boosting abilities... which so happened to help the villagers only.

You guys weren't convincing enough. The dead are a component of the game just like any other, I can't control whom they help. I specifically made the message obviously from the dead so that if a wolf were boosted, they'd understand it wasn't a living player and putting in a double kill would be OK.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Meh, I am already not a fan of the dead having any impact on the game at all. And this really reaffirmed my opinion on that. The dead can have way too much impact and sway the game away from one side and toward another side. I don't care if the dead all chat about the game, but having any ability placed within the game, I am not a fan of it, unless you, as a mod, can guarantee that it won't be predominately used for only villager help or only wolf help.... which good luck figuring out how to make that work out.

tbh, I don't think any of the boosts had an effect on the game. Even PBC turned out to be a mod-error.

 

[LetItSnow]

Oh yeah, for the record, I never thought that. Just a bit of old fashioned gas-lighting.... And then I let LIS tunnel on you more than I did, so that he would look sketchier.

Eh. You're taking too much credit. I tunneled on Ceke all by my lonesome; you didn't have anything to do with "letting" me.

 

[LetItSnow]

Is that just how it works? I think I was trying to be convinced to vote for LIS by a wolf a few months ago.

I'm always villager like Cyndia is always wolf.

 

[britzen]

when in the world is a PMer wolfy?

I think this was skewed toward wolfy by people because in the game last week one of the wolves could move people into new pm groups and he slid by looking village for it

 

[LetItSnow]

I kinda thought it was part of the game play, but I also thought I better apologise as well just in case. That is one thing I'm still not entirely used to in WW, knowing what is in game shenanigans and what is people being genuinely annoyed or upset on a personal level. When you RP there's a clear delineation between the two, as in there's a big difference between someone being angry at you when they're in character and someone prefacing a post with 'OOC' and then telling you how they really feel. Every game I still keep wanting to preface things with the letters 'IC' and 'OOC'.

In WW, everything is IC.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'm always villager like Cyndia is always wolf.

Except for when you're converted.

 

[LetItSnow]

I kinda thought it was part of the game play, but I also thought I better apologise as well just in case. That is one thing I'm still not entirely used to in WW, knowing what is in game shenanigans and what is people being genuinely annoyed or upset on a personal level. When you RP there's a clear delineation between the two, as in there's a big difference between someone being angry at you when they're in character and someone prefacing a post with 'OOC' and then telling you how they really feel. Every game I still keep wanting to preface things with the letters 'IC' and 'OOC'.

In WW, everything is OOC.

 

[britzen]

h. You're taking too much credit. I tunneled on Ceke all by my lonesome; you didn't have anything to do with "letting" me.

Oh, I know that was all you... It was just convenient for me because people were starting to say "britz is tunneling on ceke! wolfy!" so I just laid off for a few days while you continued on.... Within two days, everybody apparently had forgotten I'd been doing the same thing as you.

 

[Animal Midwife]

In WW, everything is OOC.

Was this IC or OOC?

 

[DVMDream]

Allie was a tracker and didn't have to out the fact that she got role seering with it... that is a classically village role.

This is the one thing we did not play right. We could have done much better with this.

this is absolutely not true. Her ability got people off her ass for a couple days... when in the world is a PMer wolfy?

Read the thread, it was mentioned once 3m/raf died that PM ability seemed wolfy.. heck 3m I think mentioned that in dead chat that she made an "oops" thinking it was villager but was glad people brought it up as wolfy.

Genny was a jailer, which is also classically village (but swings more on SDN).

No one believed jailer to be village... just go read. I also would never toss jailer as "classically village"...

Protector couldn't protect self or same person more than once. Seer mentioned above. Tinkerer was chaos. One single rez.

I am just saying there were many more power roles towards village than towards wolves..

You guys weren't convincing enough. The dead are a component of the game just like any other, I can't control whom they help. I specifically made the message obviously from the dead so that if a wolf were boosted, they'd understand it wasn't a living player and putting in a double kill would be OK.

They shouldn't be. Way too much discussion that can happen among the dead that they wouldn't have in thread and not near enough ability for wolves to partake since there are typically more dead villagers at any given time. I will always stand firm in this. Dead should not have a significant impact on the game.

 

[DVMDream]

tbh, I don't think any of the boosts had an effect on the game. Even PBC turned out to be a mod-error.

That hurt the wolves and aided the villagers.

 

[Animal Midwife]

That hurt the wolves and aided the villagers.

It would have happened with or without the boost.

 

[DVMDream]

It would have happened with or without the boost.

You still don't get what I mean by that. BBC not dying hurt the wolves. I'm not talking about the boost.

 

[Trilt]

Meh, I am already not a fan of the dead having any impact on the game at all. And this really reaffirmed my opinion on that. The dead can have way too much impact and sway the game away from one side and toward another side. I don't care if the dead all chat about the game, but having any ability placed within the game, I am not a fan of it, unless you, as a mod, can guarantee that it won't be predominately used for only villager help or only wolf help.... which good luck figuring out how to make that work out.

Feel free to look at Pokemon (STL - as a wolf - was blocked by the dead N1 and used it as cred for about half the game), Minecraft (Dy ended up mind****ing someone - don't recall who - when in the Nether as a dead wolf and it definitely put questions into the lynch) my Punctuation game (dead distributed roles and gave the only seering ability to a wolf), etc...

I might be a titch biased because I kind of led the resurgence of dead chats by putting them in most my games in the last two years, but I think they're a good way to keep people involved (especially noobs who end up dying early all the time) and as long as you're willing to consider them as much of a part of the game as another player, I think they're a lot of fun. It's not classic WW but I find it enjoyable.

 

[DVMDream]

tbh, I don't think any of the boosts had an effect on the game. Even PBC turned out to be a mod-error.

WZ's boost for sure had an effect on the game. I didn't read through all of dead chat to see who else was boosted. PBC's would have been a big impact on wolves, luckily we didn't kill 3m that night.

 

[Animal Midwife]

WZ's boost for sure had an effect on the game. I didn't read through all of dead chat to see who else was boosted. PBC's would have been a big impact on wolves, luckily we didn't kill 3m that night.

WZ's boost wasn't accepted.

 

[DVMDream]

Feel free to look at Pokemon (STL - as a wolf - was blocked by the dead N1 and used it as cred for about half the game), Minecraft (Dy ended up mind****ing someone - don't recall who - when in the Nether as a dead wolf and it definitely put questions into the lynch) my Punctuation game (dead distributed roles and gave the only seering ability to a wolf), etc...

I might be a titch biased because I kind of led the resurgence of dead chats by putting them in most my games in the last two years, but I think they're a good way to keep people involved (especially noobs who end up dying early all the time) and as long as you're willing to consider them as much of a part of the game as another player, I think they're a lot of fun. It's not classic WW but I find it enjoyable.

I don't mind dead having *minimal* impact on the game, but boosting villager roles is not minimal impact. I am talking random stuff.... block a player here, protect a player there, make someone talk funny.... when you lead to .... oh now a wolf can die if they kill x player or now the night cancel ONLY affects wolves and villagers still get info... .that is too much impact.

And sorry, I shouldn't have to consider dead things as still "part" of the game. In essence, they aren't, they died. just my opinion.

 

[LetItSnow]

Feel free to look at Pokemon (STL - as a wolf - was blocked by the dead N1 and used it as cred for about half the game), Minecraft (Dy ended up mind****ing someone - don't recall who - when in the Nether as a dead wolf and it definitely put questions into the lynch) my Punctuation game (dead distributed roles and gave the only seering ability to a wolf), etc...

I might be a titch biased because I kind of led the resurgence of dead chats by putting them in most my games in the last two years, but I think they're a good way to keep people involved (especially noobs who end up dying early all the time) and as long as you're willing to consider them as much of a part of the game as another player, I think they're a lot of fun. It's not classic WW but I find it enjoyable.

I tend not to like the dead involvement because I'm tending - but not perfectly - toward a purist approach. Wolves vs Villagers. Informed minority vs Uninformed majority. No outside (dead, chaos, neutral, whatever) influence.

But I also think variety is the spice of life and I'm glad there are some mods around like you that feel differently and throw in different mechanisms. Doesn't matter to me that I personally don't like them as much - I think variety is good and makes the game appealing to all the different personalities around here. Long as we can have a simpler 'purist' game once in a while to keep me happy....

 

[DVMDream]

WZ's boost wasn't accepted.

Sure was mentioned in night write up like it was...

"Everyone was so relaxed that all night kills were canceled."

And in wolf PM it was stated our kills were canceled... based on inside the game, it appeared that only kills were canceled. If it was different, it was not portrayed as such.

 

[Trilt]

No one believed jailer to be village... just go read. I also would never toss jailer as "classically village"..

I mean, it classically is. When I recommended it as a wolf role this game Mel questioned me on it. It has a protective component to it that is basically useless as a wolf ability. We've bastardized that - and apparently people movers recently, too, which I honestly didn't realize - but that doesn't mean it's not usually villa lol.

I don't mind dead having *minimal* impact on the game, but boosting villager roles is not minimal impact. I am talking random stuff.... block a player here, protect a player there, make someone talk funny.... when you lead to .... oh now a wolf can die if they kill x player or now the night cancel ONLY affects wolves and villagers still get info... .that is too much impact.

And sorry, I shouldn't have to consider dead things as still "part" of the game. In essence, they aren't, they died. just my opinion.

I feel like this is an argument just like having >1 chaos, haha. We bend things and make up interesting variations on this forum and that's why I love it a lot. If I wanted strict classical WW I'd play elsewhere, yanno?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Sure was mentioned in night write up like it was...

"Everyone was so relaxed that all night kills were canceled."

And in wolf PM it was stated our kills were canceled... based on inside the game, it appeared that only kills were canceled. If it was different, it was not portrayed as such.

Nah, everyone's actions were cancelled as normal. WZ made small mentions throughout the game (including the day it happened) on how she would have loved for that wolf night cancel to been done instead.

 

[Trilt]

Nah, everyone's actions were cancelled as normal. WZ made small mentions throughout the game (including the day it happened) on how she would have loved for that wolf night cancel to been done instead.

Nah; Dubz tried to cancel ONLY wolf actions. I veto'd it when I woke up because it was, imo, much too powerful of an upgrade. I allowed all night kills (which would have included vig if they had been happening) to be cancelled but still ran the wolf and village actions.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Nah; Dubz tried to cancel ONLY wolf actions. I veto'd it when I woke up because it was, imo, much too powerful of an upgrade. I allowed all night kills (which would have included vig if they had been happening) to be cancelled but still ran the wolf and village actions.

Ah. Misunderstanding on my part.

 

[DVMDream]

I feel like this is an argument just like having >1 chaos, haha. We bend things and make up interesting variations on this forum and that's why I love it a lot. If I wanted strict classical WW I'd play elsewhere, yanno?

Quit taking away my classical WW!!!


No, I get it, I don't mind dead taking part in minor ways, just felt they had a really big impact this game.

I mean... I did create the game where the first person lynched became leader of the wolf pack but was still able to post and partake in the game on thread... no one suspected that despite the theme... wish I could recall what game that was now.

 

[DVMDream]

Nah; Dubz tried to cancel ONLY wolf actions. I veto'd it when I woke up because it was, imo, much too powerful of an upgrade. I allowed all night kills (which would have included vig if they had been happening) to be cancelled but still ran the wolf and village actions.

And I don't recall getting results on other actions that night, not that I think we really had any, so leads to thinking.... all wolf actions blocked. Definitely possible I forgot us getting results, I forget a lot of things.

 

[WildZoo]

My boost should have only blocked your kills.
Came so close to getting that all wolf action block though...so close