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What about it? Just curious.
U Mich Vs. Univ. of Iowa
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What about it? Just curious.
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Ummm hello? You're forgetting the "World's Largest Truckstop" ...duh. http://iowa80truckstop.com/
For seriously though, Stein's assessment is, in my opinion, the most useful post here, OP. The guy's been everywhere!
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I've been to that truckstop... Excellent stuff.
In all honesty, Michigan's interview day blew me away. I had no other similar experience anywhere else. The other interview days were perfectly acceptable, but they did not get me nearly as excited about their programs.
If you want more specific reasons why I would most definitely choose UMich over Iowa if I were OOS at both, PM me and we'll talk. Good luck!
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I didn't interview at Iowa. However, I loved my time at Michigan. I think the students are the best part about the school. The student body is very diverse, and getting to interact with them during lunch was awesome. All of them seemed "normal" with unique interests and talents. Plus, it helps that not all of them are from Michigan. Lots of California kids and others from the SE, which brings a different perspectiv to the class. I can see myself going there this fall. Try to go back to second look and get to know your classmates. See where you think you will fit in the best. That should help make your decision esier.
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It's difficult to gauge the quality of clinical experience. Why would it be any better at UCLA than a UM or Hopkins? Simply because it's LA? Sure, you'll see more trauma there but why else would it be any better? I think this is where reputation is important in making a decision...
By that metric, I would just assume that the most violent and populated cities would provide the best clinical training.
Not just talking about trama, more talking about students getting to do exams and take histories with real patients starting in year 1...also talking about a large uninsured patient population resulting in advanced disease states that are not usually seen in a typical hospital and also talking about large amount of cultural diversity....
anyways, thanks for you're input everyone! I think I'm going back to 2nd look weekends for both and then see what I think after that...
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Me too, actually made it a point on my trip to Iowa to interview, lol First time I ever felt like a redneck, never have I seen so many confederate flags on things...I've been to that truckstop... Excellent stuff.
In all honesty, Michigan's interview day blew me away. I had no other similar experience anywhere else. The other interview days were perfectly acceptable, but they did not get me nearly as excited about their programs.
If you want more specific reasons why I would most definitely choose UMich over Iowa if I were OOS at both, PM me and we'll talk. Good luck!
Many of the top 20 schools (probably even lower ranked too) have significant patient contact in year 1. I don't think UCLA has more of it than any other place.
Large, uninsured patient populations exist in every major city. Well, maybe except Iowa City. With the Michigan economy, there are plenty of these people around.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "advanced disease states." What, like a patient's diabetes leads to amputation? Poor patients tend to just clog up the ER with relatively mild ailment that would usually be treated by a GP. I've been at a Level 1 Trauma Center for 3 years, and I can safely say that the uninsured patients are easily the least interesting/most pedestrian cases. If anything, I'd say UCLA is awesome because it probably gets a ton of rare cases/diseases for its specialty clinics.
Haha, sorry. You're interested in cultural diversity? And, you're interested in Iowa? I maybe missing something but I'm fairly certain Iowa has one of the most homogenous patient populations around.
Well, best of luck with your decision. I really am fascinated by your dilemma.
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It doesn't sound like the OP was ever really that interested in our opinions. The responses have been overwhelmingly in Michigan's favor. The closest you get to someone advocating Iowa is people defending it as not as bad as people have been making it out to be, or it's a great school, but they don't know anything about UM for comparison. And after all that, the OP decides she's going to revisit during their 2nd look weekends and decide. So what was the point of this thread again?
Hmph, I don't know why I'm even making a fuss about this. I guess I'm just envisioning the day where we'll see a "Johns Hopkins vs. SLU??? Help me decide!!!" thread.
Hmph, I don't know why I'm even making a fuss about this. I guess I'm just envisioning the day where we'll see a "Johns Hopkins vs. SLU??? Help me decide!!!" thread.
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Most of the threads on SDN could be solved by the OP walking into an empty room and vocalizing their thoughts/worries/grievances/achievements/internal debates out loud for a few minutes while pretending people are listening. Then they can walk out with the load off their chest. No different from what occurs on here 90% of the time. 😛
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Wow. It's amazing how people take things totally outa context here. Ask for specific things and you get no real help and just a bunch of passionate opinions. Don't worry I'll never forget Michigan is better!! Hahah. Now I remember why I've avoided SDN for all these years....filled with a bunch of crazy pre-meds.
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I think people are genuinely trying to help you and give good advice. I meant everything I said, and I have absolutely no incentive to diss Iowa or promote Michigan. I grew up a few hours from UIowa and have been a Hawkeyes fan forever, and I didn't even consider Michigan until later on this past summer... it wasn't even on my initial list of schools to apply to.
Anyway, I'm just a Midwesterner with some pretty thorough knowledge of the schools you're looking at who made an effort to help you decide. I don't think anyone here made any comments with malicious intent, and I think we all realize that Iowa, Michigan, and UCLA are all excellent schools that will give you a great education. Decision's 100% yours from here. Good luck! 👍
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I felt guilty even as I was writing it and I'm sorry I didn't phrase it more nicely. But it just seemed like you were kind of ignoring everyone's advice. I don't expect you to blindly follow everything you hear on the internet, but if you post a thread asking for people's help, and then when everyone says the same thing and you just respond, "Well, I don't know you guys.." it just makes it feel like you're not really interested in our opinions.
It's like if you were thinking about dating a guy, and you ask all of your friends if he's right for you. Every single one of your friends says no way, you'd be crazy to go out with him, with the exception of one or two that say, do what you want, it's your life. And after all that, you decide "You know what, I think I'm going to give him a shot." And even though those couple friends were right and it's your life, the rest are still entitled to be a little annoyed that despite all their pleadings, you just basically disregarded everything they said.
Having said that, it really is up to you, and if you think you need to go to each second look before you're confident in your decision, I can support that. Perhaps there's something about Iowa that really attracted you that I'm not exactly seeing in your posts, but if so, maybe that's somehow the best fit for you. Good luck and I hope you ultimately end up at the right place.
It's like if you were thinking about dating a guy, and you ask all of your friends if he's right for you. Every single one of your friends says no way, you'd be crazy to go out with him, with the exception of one or two that say, do what you want, it's your life. And after all that, you decide "You know what, I think I'm going to give him a shot." And even though those couple friends were right and it's your life, the rest are still entitled to be a little annoyed that despite all their pleadings, you just basically disregarded everything they said.
Having said that, it really is up to you, and if you think you need to go to each second look before you're confident in your decision, I can support that. Perhaps there's something about Iowa that really attracted you that I'm not exactly seeing in your posts, but if so, maybe that's somehow the best fit for you. Good luck and I hope you ultimately end up at the right place.
I'm glad you are thinking about going to second look days. I agree there is a lot of competitiveness coming out here. Midwesterners tend to be like that amoung themselves just don't ask us how we feel about Nebraska haha. All the programs are great. Go to the place that you think will make you a better doctor. Iowa's MD/MPH options sold me, and I loved my interview day there. Granted it's my home state but I could have stayed in NY and paid in state here too. Obviously most people here favor Michigan and maybe they are right but I'm guessing they know about as much about Iowa as I do about UM. I can promise you that Iowa city is not the uncultured, desolate town it's been made out to be. Carver might nor have the stats that UM does but it Is not a second rate program either, they have very high match rates and they compete against top names. Where I grew up the only better hospital ever mentioned was mayo. Go somewhere that makes you excited to start medical school. Where the programs match your interests best and where you think you'd be happy. Good Luck!
False. Many of us have interviewed and been accepted to both programs. Some of us are even Iowan.
Agreed. Carver is not second rate. However, it is not one of the top medical programs in the country, which Michigan arguably is.
This is likely because you were in Iowa. lol, Iowa and Mayo are the only 2 major academic hospital systems relatively nearby.
I don't mean to pick apart your post, but it's not us that are making unreasonable arguments. We're basically stating facts and our opinions. OP shouldn't use them exclusively to make her final decision, but it is fair to say that we represent what most people think outside of Iowa (and probably in it too...). I kind of hope she ends up at Iowa. She's really drawn to the program and that's good. Maybe her goal isn't to get into a super difficult/prestigious residency... and that's just fine.
Fine, you've convinced me UM is just the best place ever. Just wondering, those of us that go to some other lowly medical university are doomed to non-competitive and unprestigious resIdencies? Seriously? I get that UM is a "top" school, I mean how could I not, it's the first thing they tell you on their website, which I find kinda odd, but I believe Iowa to be amoung the "top" at least my "top" and honestly this thread has seriously made me reconsider ever using that term again. Ok not as awesome as MU fine. But what matters is what the OP thinks, that's who I wrote for. If everyone is happy with their choice i don't see the point of putting down other places just to make our choice sound even better. Everyone at both schools has worked their butts off to get there and should be able to become great doctors. It'd be nice if we could support each other a little bit but maybe I'm asking for too much.
I didn't mean to insinuate you can't get into a top residency from Iowa. You can, and many do. Sorry, poor choice of words.
Still, Michigan students match better. That's all I meant.
http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/OSAC/documents/2009_Table6.pdf
http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/match/matchList2009.pdf
It is funny though. Tell anyone that they don't go to one of the best medical schools in the country, and they get super offended. Just ask anyone from Vanderbilt.
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I didn't mean to insinuate you can't get into a top residency from Iowa. You can, and many do. Sorry, poor choice of words.
Still, Michigan students match better. That's all I meant.
http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/OSAC/documents/2009_Table6.pdf
http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/match/matchList2009.pdf
It is funny though. Tell anyone that they don't go to one of the best medical schools in the country, and they get super offended. Just ask anyone from Vanderbilt.
duh, cuz you're insulting them. ppl tend to take pride in the school they attend (at least in med school). a good reason for why i think its stupid when interviewees say "OMG the med students at the school were so happy and cool!". same thing over and over at every school!
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Man, so much negativity. If you have the choice between Iowa and UMich, you are in a very fortunate position and you will be successful either way.
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http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/magazine/2009/summer/insidescope/school.asp
Lucky for me, anaesthesiology is currently my top choice specialty in medicine to pursue and (with my potential medical education from Carver) I may be able to obtain a residency at ONE OF THE TOP MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY!!! WOOOO!
Seriously though, I can't stand all of the ignorance and egos of many pre-meds which is why I usually stay away from SDN. However, this thread struck a nerve because it offended me that Iowa was put down by so many (I'm assuming that they never visited the school though). I may have the option to attend a "top" med school but will probably turn it down bc I felt more at home at Carver.
FTR, match lists of schools don't matter and going to Michigan would have a negligible impact in where you end up for residency. Hardworking students who get good grades and score well on the steps get good residencies; a name doesn't make the applicant/student. Go where you feel most at home.
Btw, I have only been pre-med for the past 2 years (played D1 soccer 1st two years of undergrad in Florida) and feel honored to have the opportunity to attend Carver next semester.
Lucky for me, anaesthesiology is currently my top choice specialty in medicine to pursue and (with my potential medical education from Carver) I may be able to obtain a residency at ONE OF THE TOP MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY!!! WOOOO!
Seriously though, I can't stand all of the ignorance and egos of many pre-meds which is why I usually stay away from SDN. However, this thread struck a nerve because it offended me that Iowa was put down by so many (I'm assuming that they never visited the school though). I may have the option to attend a "top" med school but will probably turn it down bc I felt more at home at Carver.
FTR, match lists of schools don't matter and going to Michigan would have a negligible impact in where you end up for residency. Hardworking students who get good grades and score well on the steps get good residencies; a name doesn't make the applicant/student. Go where you feel most at home.
Btw, I have only been pre-med for the past 2 years (played D1 soccer 1st two years of undergrad in Florida) and feel honored to have the opportunity to attend Carver next semester.
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http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/magazine/2009/summer/insidescope/school.asp
Lucky for me, anaesthesiology is currently my top choice specialty in medicine to pursue and (with my potential medical education from Carver) I may be able to obtain a residency at ONE OF THE TOP MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY!!! WOOOO!
Seriously though, I can't stand all of the ignorance and egos of many pre-meds which is why I usually stay away from SDN. However, this thread struck a nerve because it offended me that Iowa was put down by so many (I'm assuming that they never visited the school though). I may have the option to attend a "top" med school but will probably turn it down bc I felt more at home at Carver.
FTR, match lists of schools don't matter and going to Michigan would not have that huge of an impact in where you end up for residency. Hardworking students who get good grades and score well on the steps get good residencies; a name doesn't make the applicant/student. Go where you feel most at home.
Btw, I have only been pre-med for the past 2 years (played D1 soccer 1st two years of undergrad in Florida) and feel honored to have the opportunity to attend Carver next semester.
nice to see someone with the right idea, good stuff
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http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/magazine/2009/summer/insidescope/school.asp
Lucky for me, anaesthesiology is currently my top choice specialty in medicine to pursue and (with my potential medical education from Carver) I may be able to obtain a residency at ONE OF THE TOP MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY!!! WOOOO!
Seriously though, I can't stand all of the ignorance and egos of many pre-meds which is why I usually stay away from SDN. However, this thread struck a nerve because it offended me that Iowa was put down by so many (I'm assuming that they never visited the school though). I may have the option to attend a "top" med school but will probably turn it down bc I felt more at home at Carver.
FTR, match lists of schools don't matter and going to Michigan would have a negligible impact in where you end up for residency. Hardworking students who get good grades and score well on the steps get good residencies; a name doesn't make the applicant/student. Go where you feel most at home.
Btw, I have only been pre-med for the past 2 years (played D1 soccer 1st two years of undergrad in Florida) and feel honored to have the opportunity to attend Carver next semester.
Congrats, that's really impressive that you got your stuff together in 2 years, wow. 😱 You'll be with an awesome bunch, I personally know at least 7 of Carver's incoming class of 2014 from undergrad and high school and they are all very intelligent, cool people. You'll be in good company! 👍
It's an insult because you don't go to one of the best medical schools in the world? Now I wonder who has the ego problem (not referring to you). It's not an insult to say that Michigan is a higher quality school than Iowa. Just like it's not insulting to generally say that Harvard is a better academic institution than Michigan. It's also not insulting to say Iowa is better than UIC or SLU. It's obvious for all those examples.
Iowa is obviously a good medical school (and so is basically any MD program in the US), but it's hilarious to watch people get horribly defensive if you say any school is definitively better than it. You'll get the "rankings don't matter," "you've never been there," and "go where you're happy." Perhaps you should go where you think you'd be most happy, but it doesn't change the fact that one school is generally superior to another.
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I agree, people do get overly defensive about the quality of their chosen med school. I am not at all offended when people assert that Harvard or WashU or Johns Hopkins have stronger programs than Michigan, and if I ended up attending Iowa I would not be offended if someone stated that Michigan or UCSF have stronger programs. I would simply respond that my school of choice, whether it be Iowa or Michigan or wherever, was the best fit for me, and that's all there is to it. Leave it to pre-meds to take everything personally and respond defensively.
That's really all I was trying to say, that Iowa was a good fit for me and the OP should find the best for her. Saying one school is ranked better or has a stronger xy or z program is different than saying it's ultimately superior, or that the other school couldn't possibly compete, is in a crappy town, etc. Some comments here were basically saying that Iowa drew a lower caliber of student. That's what offends people. I have been out of college a couple years, I was a non-science/non-premed major so I certainly don't consider myself a "crazy premed,". I was simply pointing out another point of view, that going to MU doesn't automatically make you better than a student at Iowa, or UCLA or anywhere else and going to a not "top program" That someone says "can't compete with top schools" doesn't mean you won't be a great doctor.
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dont even worry about it. premeds being presteige ****** = typical
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