UF vs Wash U

[MD Bound]

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Hey everyone,

I have whittled my med school choices down to WashU and UF and am kind of stuck...

I have NO interest in research (even as an extracurricular) and will have to borrow to pay for everything, so price is a factor.

I was originally attracted to WashU's name and the money that they have to put in their facilities, so before my interviews and stuff that was pretty much where I was set to go if I were to be accepted...

Now that I actually have to make the choice, though, I've done some investigating. WashU practically falls out of the ranking when you ignore research, and USMLE Step 1 scores at WashU and UF are practically equal. I currently live in Florida so moving to STL would be a chore and an extra expense. While WashU's newer facilities are very nice and Barnes-Jewish is an awesome hospital, I feel like I wouldn't use the independent study facilities because I study more at home and the hospital is more of a residency focus (correct me if I'm wrong).

Also - I didn't like how during my tour at WashU the classes were pretty segregated - at UF it seems like everyone knew everyone, despite class, and I really like that.

So as you can see I'm leaning towards UF because for the educational value, I'd rather keep my loans 80,000 less (over four years + interest) and go to a place like WashU for my residency (currently interested in ER - STL would be AWESOME).

Does anyone see any fault in my logic? Any points I'm missing? AHHHHH HUGE DECISION!


Thanks! 🙂

 

[bannie22]

I think WashU is number 1 in primary care...............

I cannnootttt see how this is a hugeee decisionnnn

WashU vs UF??????!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!?!?!
Rank 3 vs ???!?!?!?

audhgatawlerl12jkeh;ayd na
da

 

[alibai3ah]

I think WashU is number 1 in primary care...............

I cannnootttt see how this is a hugeee decisionnnn

WashU vs UF??????!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!?!?!
Rank 3 vs ???!?!?!?

audhgatawlerl12jkeh;ayd na
da

No it's not. That's UW..... WashU actually is not great at primary care....

If UF is considerably cheaper than it might be worth consideration. Yes WashU is an amazing university. And to be honest if name matters at all to you, I would go there. But now that you have an acceptance to a much better university, maybe you could use that to get more money out of UF.

If UF becomes practically free for you...I would go for it.

 

[BlueElmo]

I would choose WashU but then, if the cost is a factor for you and rankings don't matter as much, then your state school UF would definitely be a good choice as well.

 

[bannie22]

you are right alibaba. my freaking app process is filled with these riduculous holes.
i apply to all the wrong freaking schools.

washu IS expensive tho, but they are top3...

 

[MD Bound]

But WashU isn't ranked #1 (or 3)...in fact I haven't found a survey where they're in the top 20 (once again...ignore research). Which presents the problem, considering I find it hard to trust rankings when they're very subjective and have no definite criteria, and when you consider that the average MLE score for WashU is something like 234 and at UF it's 233...

Soooo it boils down to wherever I can personally do better, hence the concern about class segregation etc.

 

[bannie22]

us news ranking. the most subjective ranking ever, but the only one anyone bothers to use.

 

[ruiner]

But WashU isn't ranked #1 (or 3)...in fact I haven't found a survey where they're in the top 20 (once again...ignore research). Which presents the problem, considering I find it hard to trust rankings when they're very subjective and have no definite criteria, and when you consider that the average MLE score for WashU is something like 234 and at UF it's 233...

Soooo it boils down to wherever I can personally do better, hence the concern about class segregation etc.

In the end, it dosn't matter a whole lot. If you think you are going to be happier at UF, go there! In the public's eye, they probably will know UF before they would know WashU, and I'm sure if you go to UF and ace your classes and boards, you will have just as good of a shot at top residencies as anyone.

 

[alibai3ah]

But WashU isn't ranked #1 (or 3)...in fact I haven't found a survey where they're in the top 20 (once again...ignore research). Which presents the problem, considering I find it hard to trust rankings when they're very subjective and have no definite criteria, and when you consider that the average MLE score for WashU is something like 234 and at UF it's 233...

Soooo it boils down to wherever I can personally do better, hence the concern about class segregation etc.

USMLE scores have less to do with the school, and more to do with the student. If you have good study habits and do well on standardized tests, I think you would succeed in both environments (at the USMLEs).

I genuinely think you should bug UF and ask for more money. Tell them you have been accepted to WashU, but you would love to attend their institution if they offer more financial incentives. It can't hurt to try, just word it carefully....

 

[lrkoehle]

UF all the way. Save your money. You may care about the name of your school, but that's about it. Residency directors really don't, because things like board scores and 3rd year rotations matter so much more. These are things that are individual, and YOU have to do well on them on your own (no school will give you a 240+ on the boards, only your own studying will). Plus, med school is all pretty much the same with small differences as you pointed out, such as the classes knowing each other, pass/fail, etc. I'll say it again, save the money and go to UF. F*** rankings and school names.

 

[mdeast]

It might be good to elucidate a bit further your financial situation. Will you definitely be taking out everything in loans? Why don't you think you can qualify for aid? Does your family have enough saved that you could take out "family" loans rather than from a bank and avoid interest (or high interest)?

I'd investigate match lists to make sure UF presents the same residency opportunities as WashU. Also...do you want to stay in FL for residency/fellowship/the rest of you life? If so, UF might actually be advantageous...residency programs are attracted to local medical students because they know they have a good reason (geographical) for staying.

There certainly are way more opportunities at WashU...it's a Top 5 medical school with nearly endless resources for its students. You say you aren't interested in research, but remember that research isn't all basic science. I actually took a course on Emergency Medical Research and conducted some in the ER. Hospitals and residency programs (just like medical schools) value students who take on those sorts of projects, which is why research-intensive institutions tend to produce med students who go on to residency programs at other research-intensive medical schools or hospitals. Academics love other academics...and this includes clinical research, policy research, basic science research, etc.

Personally...I have a family member who goes to WashU for graduate school (not medical school). I will not say that I like the city of St. Louis too much (it's pretty dead at 9 PM)...but attending WashU is a rare opportunity and I'd think hard about it before attending UF.

 

[AyCaramba]

UF all the way. Save your money. You may care about the name of your school, but that's about it. Residency directors really don't, because things like board scores and 3rd year rotations matter so much more. These are things that are individual, and YOU have to do well on them on your own (no school will give you a 240+ on the boards, only your own studying will). Plus, med school is all pretty much the same with small differences as you pointed out, such as the classes knowing each other, pass/fail, etc. I'll say it again, save the money and go to UF. F*** rankings and school names.

lol that last sentence sounds a bit angry. But I agree. I didn't apply to either of these schools, but I'd lean toward UF for these same reasons.

 

[MegaProjectile]

You may not be interested in research now but who knows what will happen in 3 years? What about letters from well-known program directors at WashU that may help during residency? Your 3rd year and 4th rotations at Barnes will be awesome considering that the hospital is ranked top 10 in different specialties. It's always good to keep your options open. You never know when you might need it.

Having said that, if location and price are deal breakers for you, then this conversation is over. Go to UF. 🙂

 

[lrkoehle]

lol that last sentence sounds a bit angry. But I agree. I didn't apply to either of these schools, but I'd lean toward UF for these same reasons.

Haha, it wasn't intended to be angry. I just strongly feel that rankings and school names are worthless.

Do away rotations where you want to get a residency too, that will matter much more than school name or who wrote a letter for you.

 

[lrkoehle]

I'd investigate match lists to make sure UF presents the same residency opportunities as WashU. Also...do you want to stay in FL for residency/fellowship/the rest of you life? If so, UF might actually be advantageous...residency programs are attracted to local medical students because they know they have a good reason (geographical) for staying.

Do NOT waste your time looking at match lists. There are way to many factors that go into residency matching that aren't on those lists, which makes them useless to us. You don't know if that person who went in to family medicine got a 250 on Step I, or maybe they were trying for ortho or derm and they didn't get in and they had to scramble and ended up in family med. For the most part, residency match comes down to individual student's CHOICE of what specialty they want to go into. Again, you don't know if that person who matched at a small, low ranked residency is going there because that was all they could get or if maybe they are there because of location. As I said with rankings and school name, F*** match lists.

The only match that should matter is match.com, if you're single...

 

[BlueElmo]

Do NOT waste your time looking at match lists. There are way to many factors that go into residency matching that aren't on those lists, which makes them useless to us. You don't know if that person who went in to family medicine got a 250 on Step I, or maybe they were trying for ortho or derm and they didn't get in and they had to scramble and ended up in family med. For the most part, residency match comes down to individual student's CHOICE of what specialty they want to go into. Again, you don't know if that person who matched at a small, low ranked residency is going there because that was all they could get or if maybe they are there because of location. As I said with rankings and school name, F*** match lists.

The only match that should matter is match.com, if you're single...

I don't know, matchmaking sites freak me out, my friend came out of it totally scarred.

 

[lrkoehle]

I don't know, matchmaking sites freak me out, my friend came out of it totally scarred.

Uh oh...well then scratch that, no match lists, match.com's or anything. Also, don't play with matches, that's how smokey the bear got burnt.

 

[JasonE]

Do NOT waste your time looking at match lists. There are way to many factors that go into residency matching that aren't on those lists, which makes them useless to us. You don't know if that person who went in to family medicine got a 250 on Step I, or maybe they were trying for ortho or derm and they didn't get in and they had to scramble and ended up in family med. For the most part, residency match comes down to individual student's CHOICE of what specialty they want to go into. Again, you don't know if that person who matched at a small, low ranked residency is going there because that was all they could get or if maybe they are there because of location. As I said with rankings and school name, F*** match lists.

The only match that should matter is match.com, if you're single...

this is very true. i dont think premeds really understand how to look at a match list. i sure dont.

on top of that, theres really no point in worrying about something that is at least 4 years away. relax, go to the school you will enjoy the most and that makes most financial sense. i wouldnt be suprised if 4+ years from now you'll be happier that you are 100k less in debt than have a diploma with some fancy name on it.

 

[MD Bound]

Aww thanks guys! I feel like I've been imparted so much! 😀 I'll definitely stay away from match.com, and matches, and match lists. In fact, the only match I'll ever come near is my own. Hopefully. Four years from now. 🙂

If any UF or Wash U med students stumble upon this in the next couple of weeks (as in >2, preferably), please chime in with your opinion of the school, detailing student experience as a person and as a learner. 🙂

I appreciate all of the attention and feedback! To answer one question: my financial situation is zero, unless I miraculously get "please come here" scholarships, which is more likely from UF - even though it's public. My parents *may* be able to afford $200 per month. And though I'm working now, it's going mostly towards living expense with a meager savings.

 

[bannie22]

I'd pick UF then...

 

[dr zaius]

It's not like UF doesn't do any research. They have a blossoming research community with many opportunities for medical students to take part in should you choose to do so. They've been really hot in the viral gene therapy realm on non-human primates and even some clinical trials. Great research projects are definitely available for med students.

 

[bobsmith]

I'm still unclear on what you mean when you say your financial situation is "zero" and whether or not you qualify for need-based aid.

Did you mean that according to FAFSA, your EFC (expected family contribution) is high, but your family isn't contributing and you're going to be taking out loans alone? Or did you mean that your EFC is low and that's why you have to take out loans?

I'm not sure how UF's system works, but for WashU, they subtract your EFC from the cost of attendance to calculate your "need" and then cover your "need" with half loans/half scholarship (with a max of 20k/year in loans). If it's the case that your EFC is very low, then WashU could actually end up being a cheaper option, since they will limit your loans to 20k/year.

But if your EFC is high but your family isn't actually contributing, then yeah, there's very little chance that WashU will be cheaper.

 

[Beta Cell]

I'm still unclear on what you mean when you say your financial situation is "zero" and whether or not you qualify for need-based aid.

Did you mean that according to FAFSA, your EFC (expected family contribution) is high, but your family isn't contributing and you're going to be taking out loans alone? Or did you mean that your EFC is low and that's why you have to take out loans?

I'm not sure how UF's system works, but for WashU, they subtract your EFC from the cost of attendance to calculate your "need" and then cover your "need" with half loans/half scholarship (with a max of 20k/year in loans). If it's the case that your EFC is very low, then WashU could actually end up being a cheaper option, since they will limit your loans to 20k/year.

But if your EFC is high but your family isn't actually contributing, then yeah, there's very little chance that WashU will be cheaper.

With an EFC of 0, you could theoretically get something like 30k/year in grants and 20k in loans? You graduate with 80k total in debt? That's not too bad compared to the 150k+ some med students dread.

 

[Beta Cell]

I'm still unclear on what you mean when you say your financial situation is "zero" and whether or not you qualify for need-based aid.

Did you mean that according to FAFSA, your EFC (expected family contribution) is high, but your family isn't contributing and you're going to be taking out loans alone? Or did you mean that your EFC is low and that's why you have to take out loans?

I'm not sure how UF's system works, but for WashU, they subtract your EFC from the cost of attendance to calculate your "need" and then cover your "need" with half loans/half scholarship (with a max of 20k/year in loans). If it's the case that your EFC is very low, then WashU could actually end up being a cheaper option, since they will limit your loans to 20k/year.

But if your EFC is high but your family isn't actually contributing, then yeah, there's very little chance that WashU will be cheaper.

With an EFC of 0, you could theoretically get something like 43k/year in grants and 20k in loans? You graduate with 80k total in debt? That's not too bad compared to the 150k+ some med students dread.

 

[bobsmith]

With an EFC of 0, you could theoretically get something like 43k/year in grants and 20k in loans? You graduate with 80k total in debt? That's not too bad compared to the 150k+ some med students dread.

Theoretically, yes. But not everyone has an EFC of 0 and many times, people with high EFCs aren't getting that much from their families

Also, many schools give out money in different ways: whereas WashU covers half your need with scholarships and half with loans, another way of constructing aid packages is to give out loans until you meet a certain limit and then covering the rest with grants.

So a person with 34k in need could get 17k loans/17k grants from one school and get 25k loans/9k grants from another school

 

[JJMrK]

If it's really going to be an 80,000 + interest decision, I think you should save your money. No need to decide now though. Definitely wait until financial aid information comes out.

 

[VOP]

with all the money Wash U gives out, you may end up with the same cost in the end.