Battle of the 'Westerns: Case vs. Feinberg (Northwestern)

Haha I interviewed at both schools as well, and will be going to 2nd look for both of these schools (which interestingly enough are back to back weekends). I actually had a different vibe of the students when I went there, which is probably because I stayed an extra day with my host both in Cleveland and in Chicago, and it was during the weekends so I saw a bunch of 1st years from both schools. I personally felt that Case students were a bit "different," not odd, but just...I dunno, maybe a little awkward? Also, they seemed less outgoing and social--just my vibe though. At NU, however, the kids that I met were (outside of the interview) were super chill, outgoing, and really did a lot outside of the classroom. Of course, the student body changes slightly based on the class year, and that's why 2nd look will be crucial to really see which set of students you like more that specifically are in YOUR class.

Curriculum-wise, I felt that both schools were pretty much similar--less lecture, more PBL, and true P/F for the first two years.

Location-wise, downtown Chicago is definitely gonna have the edge over Cleveland any day. However, there still seems to be a lot of stuff to do in Cleveland as well, so it's not completely lop-sided.

Match-list wise, honestly all top-20 medical schools will provide you with the resources and opportunity to match into any specialty at any hospital you want. It's literally just you who has control over how well you do in the particular school you're in, and on your Boards, so it's pretty tied there.

Financially, the costs are very similar at both places...like around $70K for both schools, but for you it seems that NU is cheaper.

Honestly, I think you should wait on financial aid packages and 2nd look before making your decision. You'll probably have a much easier time making one too!

Good luck, and maybe we'll run into each other at both the 2nd looks

Chicago >>>>>>> Cleveland

Men's Health voted Cleveland 3rd worst city to live in on their list.

http://www.menshealth.com/bestcities/

Chicago voted Top 29 cities in the world by AskMen.com

http://www.askmen.com/specials/2010_top_29/24-chicago.html

#24

______________

I wouldn't worry about the brand though, you will be fine with residency either way. Go where you like, but we all know what the better city is.

washupremedSV said:

Haha I interviewed at both schools as well, and will be going to 2nd look for both of these schools (which interestingly enough are back to back weekends). I actually had a different vibe of the students when I went there, which is probably because I stayed an extra day with my host both in Cleveland and in Chicago, and it was during the weekends so I saw a bunch of 1st years from both schools. I personally felt that Case students were a bit "different," not odd, but just...I dunno, maybe a little awkward? Also, they seemed less outgoing and social--just my vibe though. At NU, however, the kids that I met were (outside of the interview) were super chill, outgoing, and really did a lot outside of the classroom. Of course, the student body changes slightly based on the class year, and that's why 2nd look will be crucial to really see which set of students you like more that specifically are in YOUR class.

Curriculum-wise, I felt that both schools were pretty much similar--less lecture, more PBL, and true P/F for the first two years.

Location-wise, downtown Chicago is definitely gonna have the edge over Cleveland any day. However, there still seems to be a lot of stuff to do in Cleveland as well, so it's not completely lop-sided.

Match-list wise, honestly all top-20 medical schools will provide you with the resources and opportunity to match into any specialty at any hospital you want. It's literally just you who has control over how well you do in the particular school you're in, and on your Boards, so it's pretty tied there.

Financially, the costs are very similar at both places...like around $70K for both schools, but for you it seems that NU is cheaper.

Honestly, I think you should wait on financial aid packages and 2nd look before making your decision. You'll probably have a much easier time making one too!

Good luck, and maybe we'll run into each other at both the 2nd looks

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Pretty solid advice here, agree on all fronts except for the bolded section. I think it is lopsided.

MCAT guy said:

Chicago >>>>>>> Cleveland

Go where you like, but we all know what the better city is.

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[YOUTUBE]oZzgAjjuqZM[/YOUTUBE]

Enough said.

It's a little out dated, but still applicable. Watch the first one as well.

Also, MCAT Guy, congrats on 1337 posts.

washupremedSV said:

Haha I interviewed at both schools as well, and will be going to 2nd look for both of these schools (which interestingly enough are back to back weekends). I actually had a different vibe of the students when I went there, which is probably because I stayed an extra day with my host both in Cleveland and in Chicago, and it was during the weekends so I saw a bunch of 1st years from both schools. I personally felt that Case students were a bit "different," not odd, but just...I dunno, maybe a little awkward? Also, they seemed less outgoing and social--just my vibe though. At NU, however, the kids that I met were (outside of the interview) were super chill, outgoing, and really did a lot outside of the classroom. Of course, the student body changes slightly based on the class year, and that's why 2nd look will be crucial to really see which set of students you like more that specifically are in YOUR class.

Curriculum-wise, I felt that both schools were pretty much similar--less lecture, more PBL, and true P/F for the first two years.

Location-wise, downtown Chicago is definitely gonna have the edge over Cleveland any day. However, there still seems to be a lot of stuff to do in Cleveland as well, so it's not completely lop-sided.

Match-list wise, honestly all top-20 medical schools will provide you with the resources and opportunity to match into any specialty at any hospital you want. It's literally just you who has control over how well you do in the particular school you're in, and on your Boards, so it's pretty tied there.

Financially, the costs are very similar at both places...like around $70K for both schools, but for you it seems that NU is cheaper.

Honestly, I think you should wait on financial aid packages and 2nd look before making your decision. You'll probably have a much easier time making one too!

Good luck, and maybe we'll run into each other at both the 2nd looks

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If you need more evidence of this, just go to the Case thread. With the copious amount of emoticons and anime references in there, I can't decide if it's the worst thread in the history of SSD or just an epic trolling.

Case students were more welcoming to me than any other students I met on the interview trail.. I do think they are slightly nerdier which is a plus for me. It may not be for you.

In terms of name-brand recognition.. outside of the medical world (like to a patient), Feinberg has the better reputation. But to other doctors I think Case is more impressive.

Something else to consider.. CWRU/Cleveland Clinic dominate NE Ohio's healthcare, and the medical school really is the crown jewel of the university. I felt like the med school got a lot of extra resources because of that. That stuff is sort of nice, but maybe not that important.

KinasePro said:

If you need more evidence of this, just go to the Case thread. With the copious amount of emoticons and anime references in there, I can't decide if it's the worst thread in the history of SSD or just an epic trolling.

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Haha agreed...I was trying to be as nice as possible though. The students were super nice though during my stay in Cleveland, just too dorky, and not the type of kids I would kick it with for the next four years. But remember, every class is different.

MCAT guy said:

Pretty solid advice here, agree on all fronts except for the bolded section. I think it is lopsided.

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Ok fine, once again, trying to be nice . But coming from st. louis and a small city from the deep south, that doesn't phase me too much. Also, once you start your clinicals, how much time will you actually have to fully explore whichever city you're living in?

Evergrey said:

In terms of name-brand recognition.. outside of the medical world (like to a patient), Feinberg has the better reputation. But to other doctors I think Case is more impressive.

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If this is true, I think that's mostly due to it being affiliated with Cleveland Clinic though.

Gotham said:

I completely agree. My only problem is that I'm not sure whether I'll be able to go to Feinberg's revisit, since it's on a Thursday/Friday. (I've pretty much maxed-out every combination of personal and sick days to go on interviews, and I'm going to have to beg my boss to even be able to take one extra day off.)

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Hm, in that case, that might be a little tough then if you can't go to 2nd look for Feinberg. Then, honestly, I would just see the type of vibe you get from Case's 2nd look. If you're very "meh" about the experience there or about how well you would fit with some of your potential future classmates, and if Feinberg is cheaper for you, I'd just go to NU.

snorlaz said:

My 2 cents:

Students: I don't really think you can generalize what an entire class is like by the ten or so current students you met at your interview day. I think every med school you go to will have a fair mix of different personalities. I'm sure there are plenty of "awkward" kids at both Case and NW just like there will be at any med school.

In terms of location: Chicago is obviously a better city, but Cleveland isn't as bad as people try to make it out to be. Cleveland is much smaller. In terms of cost, it's going to be extremely more expensive to live in Chicago especially if you want to live close to the med school. Housing in Cleveland is pretty cheap.

Prestige/reputation: I think both schools are pretty well respected in the medical world and I don't think one school has an edge over the other in this category. If there is any edge, it might go to Case because it's often regarded as an innovator in the world of medical education. However, Northwestern is more well known to general public because they also have top law, business, and undergrad colleges.

You obviously can't go wrong with either school. Hopefully the second look weekends will help you with your decision.

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Only go to northwestern if you want live sex acts performed during your repro block.

http://couriernews.suntimes.com/new...rof-apologizes-for-after-class-live-demo.html

For the record, Cleveland is awesome--there are tons of things to do here. If we fit your learning style better and you liked the probably 20 or so students you met that day (we pack 'em in like sardines)...

Come here.

As to the haters, I'm glad we won't be seeing you here.

E11 said:

[YOUTUBE]oZzgAjjuqZM[/YOUTUBE]

Enough said.

It's a little out dated, but still applicable. Watch the first one as well.

Also, MCAT Guy, congrats on 1337 posts.

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...you know that's a joke and has nothing to do with where Case actually is, right?

Myuu said:

...you know that's a joke and has nothing to do with where Case actually is, right?

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Yep.

I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a joke. Only reason I said it was outdated was because Sweet Baby James left you guys for the Heat. I'm sorry that no one else thought it was as funny as I did. Case is a fantastic school and Cleveland is cool too. It was merely a humorous jest to make the point that I thought Chicago/Feinberg would be the better choice. Didn't mean any real offense.

E11 said:

Yep.

I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a joke. Only reason I said it was outdated was because Sweet Baby James left you guys for the Heat. I'm sorry that no one else thought it was as funny as I did. Case is a fantastic school and Cleveland is cool too. It was merely a humorous jest to make the point that I thought Chicago/Feinberg would be the better choice. Didn't mean any real offense.

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Why is that a joke? That YouTube video is a solid depiction of Cleveland.

I think Case is a great school but Cleveland? I went there... not so much.

I have agreed the student will be good in either place.

Thanks for my congratulatory 1330th or whatever post also!

MCAT guy said:

Why is that a joke? That YouTube video is a solid depiction of Cleveland.

I think Case is a great school but Cleveland? I went there... not so much.

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Get out of the city and head out to the suburbs and to the CVNP. It's a lot nicer out there.

You only head downtown for the foodie scene, the West Side Market, and decent Chinese food and groceries. And maybe the pro sports.

There's a ton of other things to do outside of CWRU and downtown.

Ha! I love that video. I enjoy it here in Cleveland, actually. Ask some students at second look, you'll find they were surprised to find they liked it more than they thought - even those from CA. Among other things, my husband and I enjoy renting a newly renovated 3 story house with finished basement and 2-car garage for $900/mo.

I'll take the opportunity created by the gentleman who's hating on the Case thread : )

So, um, SDN is a forum on the internet. As such, those who frequent the internets are likely to be a little more on the nerdy side, including some of the current Case students who actually still come back after matriculating to continue posting here.

But aside from the style of humor that apparently isn't your bag, you will see that we take the time to advise/coach our future underclassmen through the grueling application year. The other schools I applied to/was accepted to did not have as many current med students actively engaged with prospective students, and they often took ages to answer questions.

Case creates a very diverse class. It would be silly to assume all students have the same interests and personality traits as the group of ppl who still post on SDN. But we do represent the cooperative attitude of our classmates.

Anyway, back to you, Gotham - second look is a great way to see what YOUR class will be like and to get a better feel for the city. I highly recommend thinking ahead of time what your most important factors are for where you want to live and be a student, and then going to both events - rather than relying on a few ppl online telling you what's best

Evergrey said:

In terms of name-brand recognition.. outside of the medical world (like to a patient), Feinberg has the better reputation. But to other doctors I think Case is more impressive.

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I think this is field specifc. I don't think it matters 1 bit as far as comparing the two med schools. If you're talking about residency, that's different, but it's pretty specialty specific.

washupremedSV said:

Ok fine, once again, trying to be nice . But coming from st. louis and a small city from the deep south, that doesn't phase me too much. Also, once you start your clinicals, how much time will you actually have to fully explore whichever city you're living in?

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The biggest fallacy in med school is that you won't have time to do anything so it doesn't matter where you go. I am a 3rd year on surgery and just got home from a concert. It just isn't true that you can't do social things if you don't want to.

If this is true, I think that's mostly due to it being affiliated with Cleveland Clinic though.

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probably true as I mentioned above. Both are great med schools, I'd probably choose based on cost/location and which one you personally liked more.

Auriga said:

But aside from the style of humor that apparently isn't your bag, you will see that we take the time to advise/coach our future underclassmen through the grueling application year. The other schools I applied to/was accepted to did not have as many current med students actively engaged with prospective students, and they often took ages to answer questions.

Case creates a very diverse class. It would be silly to assume all students have the same interests and personality traits as the group of ppl who still post on SDN. But we do represent the cooperative attitude of our classmates.

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Very very true. It's not a large enough sample to judge a class of 160. And I also do agree that case students were extremely helpful in answering prospective questions and tried their best to make the students feel at home.

I think both of these schools, out of the ones I interviewed at, seemed to have the most cooperative and close-knit students. And of course this makes sense with their curriculum style which practically weeds out potential obnoxious competitiveness and gunneria. You really can't go wrong with either school in that facet.

Case definitely has ridiculously friendly students. That was my impression when I visited. Better reputation, city life isn't as great. Feinberg is in possibly the most happening place in Chicago, but along with that, the cost of living is through the stratosphere. Also (I know I'm going to be flamed for this), but I have heard some gunnerish things about Northwestern.

As a student of a Chicago school, some of the reputations that go around (not completely accurate!):

Rush: students party hard
Loyola: suburbanites that party but have to live in the 'burbs
UIC: slightly nerdier/more studious version of Rush students
Rosalind Franklin: far away, good looking students
Pritzker: nerdy, researchy, loaded
Feinberg: loaded hospital, area, gunnerish students + amazing location

Keep in mind, these are just what the schools say about each other in the Chicagoland area (yeah, we've had a couple mixers, lol). So treat it as gossip/rumors, but thought it'd provide humor/insight/whatever!

I'm not quite sure why people have said anyone is "hating" on Case. The only reason I'm replying is because people are being over sensitive on calling a spade a spade.

The only thing I said was the city isn't the best.

I was going to say more but I'll leave it there and stay positive.

Riiiiight. Objective. Although, that article snippet does have actual data.


But why do they always get the annual snowfall totals wrong?? That's a foot and a half more than average.

Myuu said:

Riiiiight. Objective. Although, that article snippet does have actuall data.


But why do they always get the annual snowfall totals wrong?? That's a foot and a half more than average.

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I removed my post because (on second thought) I feel no need to be negative. Go to whichever school you like the best.

I hope everyone enjoys there school and has success.

Honest question: does Case really have a better clinical reputation than Northwestern?

If you're comparing CCLCM with Northwestern, I'd agree. But from my (largely anecdotal) experience, Northwestern is both more selective than Case and has stronger research programs across the board.

90minIPA said:

Honest question: does Case really have a better clinical reputation than Northwestern?

If you're comparing CCLCM with Northwestern, I'd agree. But from my (largely anecdotal) experience, Northwestern is both more selective than Case and has stronger research programs across the board.

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I don't know if anyone here can actually tell you that.

I don't think you can make a bad decision here in terms of academics - they're both great programs and you'll be able to do what you want no matter which place you end up at.

In terms of hospital strengths, it really depends on which specialties you're talking about. Cleveland is famous for hearts, NW has a strong neurosurg program, etc.

I'm from Cleveland, I've been to Chicago. I'd pick NW based on location. I know each city has its share of things, but come on, cool things to do in Chicago >>>>>>>>> cool things to do in Cleveland. public transit is great, music out the wazoo, a lake you can actually get close to without breathing in cyanide, museums, parks, sports, etc etc...

Have some fun and go to Northwestern.

I wouldn't pick your med school based upon the city. You'll know when you go to second looks which one fits you perfectly.

90minIPA said:

Honest question: does Case really have a better clinical reputation than Northwestern?

If you're comparing CCLCM with Northwestern, I'd agree. But from my (largely anecdotal) experience, Northwestern is both more selective than Case and has stronger research programs across the board.

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This stuff is so specialty dependent, you can't really generalize across all specialties like that with institutions of this caliber.

Generally CC is most well known for cardiology/CT surg but is good/excellent in most specialties. NW is good/excellent in different fields. This wouldn't be what I would use to decide what school to go to, fit/cost/location is significantly more important.

Auriga said:

I wouldn't pick your med school based upon the city. You'll know when you go to second looks which one fits you perfectly.

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Why wouldn't you? It's one of the few things that's actually significantly different from school to school.

I'm a current 4th year at Case and I've had an amazing time here. I think I've received a top-notch medical education, have some outstanding classmates, and will hopefully do very well in the match. That said, the city plays an important role in the decision. I think my happiness would have been higher in Chicago, where there is easily accessible good Chinese/Taiwanese food and boba, Jamba Juice, and frozen yogurt. Cleveland isn't bad, but those are the things that are lacking, in my opinion.

Both are great schools in terms of academics. Aside from cost, it is undeniable that Chicago is a more desirable city to live in than Cleveland, especially now that LeBron is gone, we really don't have anything positive sports-wise. However, Case gets the edge in terms of the laidback nature of the first two years of medical school, the strength of our match list in recent years, and cost of living.

While the original poster may have his/her heart set on Cornell, I just wanted to add a little bit of perspective here.

I was fortunate enough to choose between Case and NU, and I recently made it official that I was going to Case. I withdrew recently from NU because I know people are trying to get off the waitlist (for any of you holding onto spots in places that you have let go, please consider your future colleagues who may want to attend exponentially more than you). It was a very easy choice for me from the beginning, and it has a lot to do with the culture at Northwestern that I know all too much about. I'd like to share it here because I believe it's important, and it's a view that is not widely known (I just watched Burma VJ).

It seems as if this debate is mostly Chicago vs. Cleveland, which is definitely a factor, but you cannot but agree that it is a tad bit superficial when considering medical schools. Don't get me wrong, Chicago is definitely better than Cleveland, but your medical school doesn't determine where you will live - residency, however, is more influential, but that's in the future. Personally, I care about my medical education, the culture of the institution, affiliate hospitals, and how the school may shape me as a person.

Forgive me if this post is long, but these are facets of NU that I have discovered along the way. I went to NU undergrad, and though I know the Chicago and Evanston campus are worlds away, my research, work, peers, mentors, and many other factors have allowed me much insight into Feinberg and the medical world of NU. Be very aware of the many facets of a medical school and its affiliate hospitals that are not highlighted or cannot be gleaned from looking at a curriculum and ranking. Many of these things cannot even be seen during second look weekend because first of all, you need people at that school to be truthful and straightforward with you. That, unfortunately, may not happen at NU. Just take a look at the school specific thread from 2009-2010 about Dean Wallace's misleading information about whether people will be waitlisted or rejected post-interview. There was a whole discussion about whether Wallace lied or not, and regardless the fact that a NU undergrad was rejected post-interview when he/she could have been waitlisted, which meant the same thing, was a slap in the face (of course, a final decision does make it easier on the student in terms of simply knowing, so that can be argued against). Anyway, hearing that Wallace may have mislead students doesn't surprise me at all. During my one-on-one, I experienced the old political adage: don't answer the question you were asked; answer the one you wish you would have been asked. I asked the following: "Since you take so many undergrads ~40-50 from Northwestern every year, how might that play into the student dynamics and the culture of the entering class?" He answered: "Oh, we don't consider what undergraduate institution you went to when deciding on whether to admit you or not." First of all, that's not even close to the question I ask. Second of all, that's a straight lie because I know for a fact that NU does (and why shouldn't they?). Clearly, Wallace found the need to be defensive. When I mentioned why Northwestern lost Evanston Northwestern Hospital's affiliation (please be aware of this before you decide to attend NU), he said he had no idea what was going on. That was a lie. I was told at ENH (now NorthShore University HealthSystems affiliated with UChicago), during orientation that NU and ENH were moving in different directions mutually, and that's total bs...but that's corporate, and that's expected. I wouldn't expect that from a dean of admissions. (BTW, it was not mutual. Northwestern was charging ENH excessive amounts of money for the Northwestern brand name, and ENH had been complaining about how it cut into their ability to expand, and just allowed NMH to unfairly benefit and grow more [need all the capital to do this]. Northwestern decided to not address the issue, and said, "You need us more than we need you." ENH called their bluff, and left to join a welcoming and less autocratic academic center: Uchicago). I experienced a lot of this bs during my interview, including during the panel interview, but it didn't surprise me. Northwestern is a highly politicized and ego-centric entity. Prestige of the institution trumps the individual medical student any day. As someone who is very interested in EM and trauma, I was told again and again during my interview that NU is a Trauma I center, and the ER gets a wide variety of patients. It is a Trauma I center (always remember Trauma I is a marketing tool more than it is an indication of what the hospital sees), but it really doesn't need to be (except for Children's), and no it doesn't. I am very familiar with Chicago EMS, as well as many attendings and residents who went to NU. True, you'll be going to Gary, Indiana for clinicals nowadays, but that's still a shaky relationship at its incipiency. There's a lot of white lying and bs being thrown around, so be careful during second look weekend.

All this stems from a general culture propagated by a top-down structure. Feinberg depends on NMH. NMH makes the money, tons of it. Where the money is, the power is. That's a really cliche thing to say, and it's far more complex than that, but it's generally something you must keep in mind considering NU's Feinberg. As a recent NU grad, I know tons of people at Feinberg (many of them HPME, which is a whole other issue at NU when so many 7 year undergrad-med students just coast since they require only a 3.2 gpa, no mcat, no essays, no grueling interview [many of the things that define the rite of passage]...Case has something similar, but it's not set up in a way that students coast as ubiquitously as they do at NU). Generally, students feel as if more effort goes into making NMH the most desirable hospital, and less effort goes towards shaping fine, young doctors. It depends on the residents and attendings, but expect an environment in which you are more sheltered, and where uppity patients refuse to let you touch them because you are a med student (as opposed to UIC students who don't have that prestige, but by the word of many attendings and residents I know, are more competent and confident because of their clinical training). Don't get me wrong, NU gets great candidates applying in, but your potential may be hampered especially if you desire a very hands on specialty. The administration is what truly makes everything politicized and breeds a culture I cannot personally stand. When my friend, an M2 student got into a bit of trouble (I don't know what exactly), he tried to find out as much as possible from administration, but the specific people he asked were giving him the silent treatment. When an intern I know interviewed for residency at NU, he asked what Northwestern will do for him as a resident, and he was told that he should be humbled to be a part of NMH (residents all need advocacy and support at some point, not just a nice name on a resume). Northwestern's nurses are not paid competitively, but they join the team because of the prestige so they can leave for somewhere else later. Of course, these are nurses, and you may be screaming that's not me; however, trust me, nurses are integral in your role as a doctor, and the way a hospital treats its nurses can be an indication of how every other medical team member is treated.

If you choose Northwestern, be ready for a highly politicized culture run entirely by the need to make excessive profits on medical care. While Case will have some this as well because every single possible medical school/affiliates will have this, NU is by far the most guilty in Chicago. I expect to find some of the things I described here at Case, but from NU undergrads that eventually went to Case, I hear that is very different. Maybe it is a case of greener grass on the other side. However, I wanted to offer this insight, some of it perpetuated by my frustration at Northwestern because of my personal proximity. This is less of a rant, and more of a warning. I have had the strong need to get this out on record anyway. I don't want people to look at ranking and curriculum, and believe Case and Northwestern are similar. They are not. Good luck with your decision making, OP, and everyone else that may read this.

oh yeah, and watch how many people jump up and start defending Northwestern. Few to none. The prevalent gunner mentality at Northwestern is not a myth. Very few people at NU compared to those at Case will jump to defend NU...every time anyone says something bad about Case, it's responded to, no matter where on sdn it's posted. And yes, that is a challenge. Prove me wrong Feinberg advocates.

Thanks for the informative post! And I'm glad I heard about all of this as NU is my top choice as of now. But a few remarks:

nvk89 said:

Just take a look at the school specific thread from 2009-2010 about Dean Wallace's misleading information about whether people will be waitlisted or rejected post-interview. There was a whole discussion about whether Wallace lied or not, and regardless the fact that a NU undergrad was rejected post-interview when he/she could have been waitlisted, which meant the same thing, was a slap in the face (of course, a final decision does make it easier on the student in terms of simply knowing, so that can be argued against).

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Personally I remember Wallace saying that 50% of the students will be accepted, but at least on my interview day, he said "most" of you will be placed on a waitlist. Of course, the NU undergrad in that thread may have heard differently or (as a few others posted also in that thread), misinterpreted Wallace. Furthermore, I'm not sure how much the Dean of Admissions (even if, as you say, he beats around the bush a couple of times), will affect your medical future in that institution. I think it's a huge assumption to think that all faculty will be a bit vague when dealing with students.

nvk89 said:

I experienced a lot of this bs during my interview, including during the panel interview, but it didn't surprise me. Northwestern is a highly politicized and ego-centric entity. Prestige of the institution trumps the individual medical student any day.

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This is a bit subjective in my opinion. I, and a few others that I know who interviewed here, didn't think it any different from other "top" institutions of the likes of Duke, Penn, Harvard, Hopkins, and even Case. It's an interview day, they try to win you over as much as you try to win them over--if they have something to brag about, why shouldn't they?

nvk89 said:

As a recent NU grad, I know tons of people at Feinberg (many of them HPME, which is a whole other issue at NU when so many 7 year undergrad-med students just coast since they require only a 3.2 gpa, no mcat, no essays, no grueling interview [many of the things that define the rite of passage]...Case has something similar, but it's not set up in a way that students coast as ubiquitously as they do at NU).

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I don't think that's necessarily true. I've met some HPMEs in the past who have done some remarkable things (like create Globemed for instance). And yes, although the gpa limit is low, Case Western's is also very similar. Furthermore, HPME has cut the number of students to half that it used to have (like 20ish I think now?). Also, many of these students do take that extra year to do some great extracurricular work before enrolling at Feinberg.

nvk89 said:

If you choose Northwestern, be ready for a highly politicized culture run entirely by the need to make excessive profits on medical care. While Case will have some this as well because every single possible medical school/affiliates will have this, NU is by far the most guilty in Chicago.

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Ouch, a bit harsh? But yes, I do agree, it probably is the most in Chicago..but once again, I don't see how it is much different from other "top" schools that are absolutely loaded with money.

nvk89 said:

This is less of a rant, and more of a warning. I have had the strong need to get this out on record anyway.

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No offense, but it did come across as a rant...but maybe that's just me? My question is if you knew from the beginning, why did you even apply to Northwestern in the first place?

nvk89 said:

oh yeah, and watch how many people jump up and start defending Northwestern. Few to none. The prevalent gunner mentality at Northwestern is not a myth. Very few people at NU compared to those at Case will jump to defend NU...every time anyone says something bad about Case, it's responded to, no matter where on sdn it's posted. And yes, that is a challenge. Prove me wrong Feinberg advocates.

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I don't think the "no defense on sdn" corresponds to having a "gunner mentality." I think that there are few Feinberg sdners in general, let alone those watching these threads. So I don't think that is a valid point.

Anyways, I personally did not find any of this "gunner" attitude, white lies, obnoxious arrogance, excessive love of money, etc (at least not more than I saw at other institutions I interviewed at that are highly ranked). Furthermore, from a lot of the students I spoke to, including M1s and M2s, they all really seemed to like it there, and the administration seemed very helpful to whatever they needed. And the same thing, of course, goes with Case Western.

Furthermore, you said that there may be "lies" that might be going around during your interview day/2nd look at NU; how do I (or you for that matter, since you clearly as SIGNIFICANTLY more familiar with northwestern) know that Case is not spreading similar "white lies." Once again, I think that you can't go wrong with either institution since both are phenomenal--good luck to everyone! And good luck to you nvk89 with Case Western!

washupremedSV said:

Thanks for the informative post! And I'm glad I heard about all of this as NU is my top choice as of now. But a few remarks:



Personally I remember Wallace saying that 50% of the students will be accepted, but at least on my interview day, he said "most" of you will be placed on a waitlist. Of course, the NU undergrad in that thread may have heard differently or (as a few others posted also in that thread), misinterpreted Wallace. Furthermore, I'm not sure how much the Dean of Admissions (even if, as you say, he beats around the bush a couple of times), will affect your medical future in that institution. I think it's a huge assumption to think that all faculty will be a bit vague when dealing with students.



This is a bit subjective in my opinion. I, and a few others that I know who interviewed here, didn't think it any different from other "top" institutions of the likes of Duke, Penn, Harvard, Hopkins, and even Case. It's an interview day, they try to win you over as much as you try to win them over--if they have something to brag about, why shouldn't they?



I don't think that's necessarily true. I've met some HPMEs in the past who have done some remarkable things (like create Globemed for instance). And yes, although the gpa limit is low, Case Western's is also very similar. Furthermore, HPME has cut the number of students to half that it used to have (like 20ish I think now?). Also, many of these students do take that extra year to do some great extracurricular work before enrolling at Feinberg.



Ouch, a bit harsh? But yes, I do agree, it probably is the most in Chicago..but once again, I don't see how it is much different from other "top" schools that are absolutely loaded with money.




No offense, but it did come across as a rant...but maybe that's just me? My question is if you knew from the beginning, why did you even apply to Northwestern in the first place?



I don't think the "no defense on sdn" corresponds to having a "gunner mentality." I think that there are few Feinberg sdners in general, let alone those watching these threads. So I don't think that is a valid point.

Anyways, I personally did not find any of this "gunner" attitude, white lies, obnoxious arrogance, excessive love of money, etc (at least not more than I saw at other institutions I interviewed at that are highly ranked). Furthermore, from a lot of the students I spoke to, including M1s and M2s, they all really seemed to like it there, and the administration seemed very helpful to whatever they needed. And the same thing, of course, goes with Case Western.

Furthermore, you said that there may be "lies" that might be going around during your interview day/2nd look at NU; how do I (or you for that matter, since you clearly as SIGNIFICANTLY more familiar with northwestern) know that Case is not spreading similar "white lies." Once again, I think that you can't go wrong with either institution since both are phenomenal--good luck to everyone! And good luck to you nvk89 with Case Western!

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Totally agree with you. I do regress, and put a note on all this: it is all pretty subjective, and it's not all inclusive (it's hard to get a discussion going unless there's another side like you, that's why I wanted a challenge). However, it's something that doesn't ever really surface. I have many friends in HPME that I cannot speak highly enough about. I was in GlobeMed, and my roommate is on exec. But just as many are high achievers who I shouldn't have implied should be bashed, there are many that coast. And I don't take offense about the question why I applied to NU. Everyone from NU does. A lot has changed since I applied, and I have learned a lot. Oh yeah, reading through my thread, I got tired at the end and said something nonsensical about gunnerish = no defense...please don't judge my literary abilities based on this, haha. I meant that they tend to be preoccupied with their own things, and there's nothing wrong with that. I actually enjoy a gunner's presence here or there since they liven things up, and push you to push yourself. As for the dean, I singled him out since he is supposed to represent the school, but then again things are changing. They are getting a new dean of the medical school, and I hope things are going to change.

I believe Case will definitely have many of the same problems, though I hope it won't. Plus, if there is no political bs, how will we be prepared for the coming problems we will face in future as doctors? My comparison is actually just within the medical world of Chicago which I'm pretty familiar with. If you are a patient at NMH, great, but if you are a healthcare worker or med student, be careful and be prepared to deal with some things you may not have expected.

Oh yeah, and it was a rant. Of course it was, but I want it to serve as informative as well. Your reply makes it even more informative. I don't want me to be the final word on everything because I cannot always certainly filter through the subjectivities and make the most objective post ever. Thus, good job, and I hope this discussion doesn't end here.

Nvk and WashU, thanks to both of you for your frankness. I would be interested to know how the NU culture differs from that of Case. I'm sure NU has its negatives, bu how much different is their culture from Case's?

Interesting discussion - looking forward to hearing more.

E11 said:

[YOUTUBE]oZzgAjjuqZM[/YOUTUBE]

Enough said.

It's a little out dated, but still applicable. Watch the first one as well.

Also, MCAT Guy, congrats on 1337 posts.

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thanks for posting this -- I just spent about an hour trying to find an equally funny video about Detroit, but had no success. There were some imitations, but they weren't nearly as good...

And then I began watching videos of abandoned buildings in Detroit.

There weren't any high quality ones though. A lot of them were filmed from moving cars.

Someone should really do a documentary tour of inside the actual abandoned houses, factories, and office buildings. If it was done in high def (and without all the shaking), I might even pay to watch it.

It would be really cool and creepy, since there is probably no other place like Detroit in all of the USA.... Where else is there such a high concentration of urban ruins?

This might be what the Earth looks like after we are all gone.

Feinberg is an amazing place. You will receive some of the best training in the country. Our graduates can go on to do anything, and the network is powerful. My classmates are very accomplished. Think twice before passing it up.

Good luck party people in the house!

Shufflin said:

Feinberg is an amazing place. You will receive some of the best training in the country. Our graduates can go on to do anything, and the network is powerful. My classmates are very accomplished. Think twice before passing it up.

Good luck party people in the house!

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This is also true of Case, you know.