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2012-2013 University of Utah Application Thread
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Does anyone know what the admissions profile is here (i.e., average cumulative/science GPA and MCAT of matriculants)? Also, does anyone know how friendly the school is to OOS applicants? I can't find any of this on their website and don't have the old MSAR handy.
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
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MSAR says that about 25% of the class, but I know that some of these OOS seats are held for Idaho applicants. Median GPA is right around 3.7 (sGPA of 3.65), and the median MCAT is 30. I thought I read somewhere that the class size is changing, which would be good since last year's class was around 80 students.
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Much appreciated! I'd love to practice rural medicine near Moab. *dreamy look*
Good luck!
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You must have significant ties (lived there/worked there in the past, family, own land) to the state of Utah to be accepted from OOS. They do hold some seats for Idaho applicants.
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Man, the Utah secondary is a beast! If they stick with the same prompts you essentially write a completely new personal statement (they explicitly state the personal comments section from AMCAS will not suffice). A few friends who have matriculated here said they wrote about a page single spaced for the personal statement. Should be a blast.
I am just starting my second year at Utah and will attempt to monitor this thread to help with any confusion and answer any questions. There are a couple of my classmates that may also do the same. Check out the application thread from last year, basically every question you have will be answered there. The thread looks exactly the same every year, as the same questions are asked and the same complaints are raised.
Conveniently linked application thread--->2011-2012 University of Utah Application Thread
This sounds like it could be a little on the low side as far as the scores but I am not sure as they don't really tell us those sort of things. The class size has been about 80 for the last several years but they are attempting to bring it back up to 100, it was there previously, however I don't recall if it is a done deal or not. Sorry, I was kinda zoned out when they were talking about it last semester.
This is correct, there are extremely few people in our class who are true OOS and most of them are MD/PHD.
I can't imagine the prompts changing as they haven't in recent memory. If you plan on applying to Utah start writing a second, significantly different, personal statement right now.
Conveniently linked application thread--->2011-2012 University of Utah Application Thread
This sounds like it could be a little on the low side as far as the scores but I am not sure as they don't really tell us those sort of things. The class size has been about 80 for the last several years but they are attempting to bring it back up to 100, it was there previously, however I don't recall if it is a done deal or not. Sorry, I was kinda zoned out when they were talking about it last semester.
This is correct, there are extremely few people in our class who are true OOS and most of them are MD/PHD.
I can't imagine the prompts changing as they haven't in recent memory. If you plan on applying to Utah start writing a second, significantly different, personal statement right now.
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I don't think they are increasing the class size for the 2013 entering class. There was talk of it being raised back to around 100 (where it was a few years ago) but that idea was shot down.
So here's some information from what I know of the admissions. I hope the current students or other people familiar could verify.
Not a rolling admission. You can interview/apply late and you will be completely fine.
After interviews, the selection committee assigns a score to each applicant.
Utah's Formula (Each variable is assigned a value from 1-4 based on subjective or objective criteria):
Average (MCAT + GPA + Clinical + Research + Volunteer + Diversity/Talent + Recommendations + Personal Statement + Interview + Economic Hardship).
Yes, MCAT and GPA each contribute 10% to your score. Hypothetically, using this formula, you could have a really bad MCAT and/or GPA and still get in. I know of a colleague with a 24 MCAT who got in...
With your score, they assign you a letter (A through E) which resembles your numerical standing (this is as much specifics as I could find).
They screen out the top 10% and bottom 10%, and then choose out of the remaining 80%. 75% of matriculants are instate.
"Long term participation" in your activities (research, work, volunteer, etc) are what make you stand out. Just as important as your GPA/MCAT.
Selection committee does not participate in interviews. Interviewees do not know your GPA/MCAT scores.
One thing I had a question with - why does economic hardship even play a role in acceptance? The poorer you are, the better?
Not a rolling admission. You can interview/apply late and you will be completely fine.
After interviews, the selection committee assigns a score to each applicant.
Utah's Formula (Each variable is assigned a value from 1-4 based on subjective or objective criteria):
Average (MCAT + GPA + Clinical + Research + Volunteer + Diversity/Talent + Recommendations + Personal Statement + Interview + Economic Hardship).
Yes, MCAT and GPA each contribute 10% to your score. Hypothetically, using this formula, you could have a really bad MCAT and/or GPA and still get in. I know of a colleague with a 24 MCAT who got in...
With your score, they assign you a letter (A through E) which resembles your numerical standing (this is as much specifics as I could find).
They screen out the top 10% and bottom 10%, and then choose out of the remaining 80%. 75% of matriculants are instate.
"Long term participation" in your activities (research, work, volunteer, etc) are what make you stand out. Just as important as your GPA/MCAT.
Selection committee does not participate in interviews. Interviewees do not know your GPA/MCAT scores.
One thing I had a question with - why does economic hardship even play a role in acceptance? The poorer you are, the better?
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They screen out the top 10%? That seems odd for a state school where they have the advantage to take well qualified in-state people who want to stay in the 801.
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I know of many over-qualified instate students who applied early and were rejected. Even the surgeon I shadowed last winter, who attended Johns Hopkins and was a BYU undergraduate student, was rejected by the U. I also found this information in a presentation PDF file, and I am hoping somebody could confirm.
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A hotel clerk in Moab gave me an earful about the high physician turn-over to help him manage his X,Y, and Z chronic conditions. It sounds like many of them don't stay more than three years.
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Have you seen the secondary? Can you post it?
I skimmed through last years thread and didn't spot it.
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Check the link below.
http://medicine.utah.edu/admissions/apply/secondary.php
I have not received the secondary, but I'm guessing that the prompts they have posted on the web will be reused. As stated above (and on the website) they want a personal statement and since the personal comments section from AMCAS will not be accepted, time to write a new one.
Thinking of maybe submitting my primary here. For their LoR's do you NEED one from research? I have two from patient exposure and one for volunteer but not a research one. it says no exceptions so maybe I won't apply. Seems odd that they essentially require research. Is Utah a big research school?
Three Academic Letters
At least 1 letter must be from a science professor. The other 2 may be from professors in any course. Letter writers must be faculty members who taught the applicant in a traditional lecture classroom setting and assigned the applicant a grade for credit in the course. Letters from labs, independent study, or correspondence courses do not meet this requirement. Letters from teaching assistants are accepted only when co-signed by the professor who directs the course.
Three Supervisor Letters
Community/volunteer service: The letter must clearly state that the letter writer supervised the applicant that their service was without compensation and what the applicant's role was in providing service. The letter should describe the performance and duration of the applicant's volunteer service.
Patient exposure: The letter must clearly state that the letter writer supervised the applicant and what the applicant's role was in direct interaction with patients. The letter should describe the performance and duration of the applicant's experience. (Letters from shadowing is discouraged).
Research: The letter must clearly state that the letter writer supervised the applicant in a scholarly or scientific hypothesis investigation and what the applicant's role was in the research experience. The letter should describe the performance and duration of the applicant's research.
Letters of recommendation from previous applications to our school will not be transferred to the current application.
Note: No exceptions or substitutions are allowed.
Three Academic Letters
At least 1 letter must be from a science professor. The other 2 may be from professors in any course. Letter writers must be faculty members who taught the applicant in a traditional lecture classroom setting and assigned the applicant a grade for credit in the course. Letters from labs, independent study, or correspondence courses do not meet this requirement. Letters from teaching assistants are accepted only when co-signed by the professor who directs the course.
Three Supervisor Letters
Community/volunteer service: The letter must clearly state that the letter writer supervised the applicant that their service was without compensation and what the applicant's role was in providing service. The letter should describe the performance and duration of the applicant's volunteer service.
Patient exposure: The letter must clearly state that the letter writer supervised the applicant and what the applicant's role was in direct interaction with patients. The letter should describe the performance and duration of the applicant's experience. (Letters from shadowing is discouraged).
Research: The letter must clearly state that the letter writer supervised the applicant in a scholarly or scientific hypothesis investigation and what the applicant's role was in the research experience. The letter should describe the performance and duration of the applicant's research.
Letters of recommendation from previous applications to our school will not be transferred to the current application.
Note: No exceptions or substitutions are allowed.
From what I understand, the University of Utah is pretty strict about the letters. I'm also applying here, and one of the only reasons I knew to start research early was because I'm from Utah and planned on applying here. They love applicants who have had a decent amount of research experience. I would call the admissions office and ask them specifically, but as far as I know they do require a research LOR.
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I submitted mine around June 13th so I was getting worried too. I called them a week and a half ago and they said the applications weren't ready yet, so they would be sending the out the first few days of August. Looks like you got the first batch. I'm still waiting for mine.
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Does this school literally needs six letters? Or can one letter writer fulfill two of the required letters? For example, one of my letter writers is my PI in the lab. I also consider her as my science prof since I took a class with her. Will her letter fulfill one of the required academic letters (science) and one of the required supervisor letters (research)?
Thanks.
If they even accept it, and I don't think they do, it's not recommended to double up letters, or for that matter, anything in your application, such as counting the same experience for volunteer and patient contact hours.
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The U is very strict on all of their requirements. A friend of mine couldn't get an African-American studies class recognized for the 'diversity course' requirement until his professor wrote a letter to the dean. Doubling up on letters is very unlikely to work.
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Awww. 🙁🙁 I'm an OOS student but I'm considered (surprisingly) as an URM at this school so I decided to sent my primary to them. I should have checked the required letters first. Tsk Tsk. Oh well! Thanks for the info!
You should be able to submit additional required letters. Talk to your adviser.
Hey guys. Do you mind posting the prompt on the University of Utah secondary that you have received? Is it the same exact secondary as previous years?
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Secondary received! -- IS
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That's so sad. I feel for that clerk. Those are probably the few that pursue short-term rural work to pay off loans before moving to an urban area. If I were lucky enough to land a position in an area like that, I'd totally stay.
Regarding the 3 faculty letters, would one committee letter written by three science and one non-science faculty that taught me suffice? I have 5 letters total, all of which contribute to what they're looking for (e.g., research, volunteer, etc.). I just don't have three separate letters from the faculty that did my committee letter...hrmph.
Also, since they evaluate applicants in a much more holistic manner than other schools, emphasizing MCAT at 10% of that equation, does anyone know the average MCAT of accepted MSTP applicants?
I really, really would love to attend this school. I fell in love with Utah a long time ago. At first, I gave up because I'm OOS with the only tie being my strong desire to live and practice here. But after thinking it through, I really want to give it a shot.
Thanks in advance.
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You can find the specifics of LORs being addressed here:
http://medicine.utah.edu/admissions/apply/secondary.php
I cut and pasted the important parts and left chunks out, so you'll have to go to the website to paint the whole picture, so to speak.
The University of Utah School of Medicine requires letters of recommendation that document participation in the 6 specific areas listed below. No more than one letter may be used to fulfill two of the required letters (the letter must adequately address both elements). All letters of recommendation must be on letterhead and have a valid signature. Letters must be submitted to AMCAS letter service.
Three Academic Letters
At least 1 letter must be from a science professor. The other 2 may be from professors in any course. Letter writers must be faculty members who taught the applicant in a traditional lecture classroom setting and assigned the applicant a grade for credit in the course. Letters from labs, independent study, or correspondence courses do not meet this requirement. Letters from teaching assistants are accepted only when co-signed by the professor who directs the course.
Three Supervisor Letters
Note: No exceptions or substitutions are allowed.
Applicants to the M.D. /Ph.D. program must submit 3 academic letters of recommendation. Applicants are not required to submit letters from supervisors. However, we encourage applicants to include the 3 letters when they submit their secondary materials. If the letters are not submitted with the secondary materials, applicants will not be eligible to petition to the M.D. program if they are not invited for further consideration to the M.D./Ph.D. program. Applicants must meet one of our residency requirements if they petition to apply to the M.D. program only.
Best of luck!
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Thanks a bunch, Contemplating. That's actually the exact link I was reading when I posted, but somehow totally missed the first sentence you bolded in red. As for the second, I should've re-written that part of my initial post to better underscore that all the faculty members in my committee letter did in fact teach me in a traditional lecture class. Too bad one letter can't fulfill all three requirements.
Thankfully, from the way the site is written, it seems if I apply via MSTP, I'm covered.
But I'm still curious as to whether anyone knows what the average MCAT is of those that matriculate in the MSTP. I definitely have everything they're looking for as an MSTP applicant, but am waiting to see if my MCAT is acceptable.
Thanks again in advance.
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I hate to be a broken record, but really need to know this answer to determine whether or not I apply: Does anyone know what the average, median, or preferred MCAT score is for MSTP (MD/PhD) applicants?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
So with the hopes of getting you to stop asking I talked to one of our MD/PhDs today and asked him this question. He said he had no idea but that UUSOM treats MD/PhD applicants differently than most schools. At the U you must be accepted to the MD program first and independently of the PhD program. He said at many schools if you are accepted to the PhD program they basically just put you in the MD program. He said at the U you can be accepted to the PhD program and not get into the MD program. What this means is if your MCAT score is not competitive overall at the UUSOM it doesn't matter what the scores of the MD/PhD students are.
Also, a personal observation, the MD/PhD students in our class are incredibly intelligent and I would suspect have MCAT scores to match. If you are worried about it being competitive its probably not.
Further, that fact that you are so worried about your MCAT score shows that you know crap about the U because basically all the MCAT, and for that matter GPA, does is get you past the prescreening, and has a minor importance in getting you an interview, it has very little bearing on whether you are accepted or not.
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First, thanks for answering my question. But why devote the rest of your post to being unnecessarily rude? Wow. You obviously know nothing about me (easily rectified by clicking on my MD Apps) and made a great deal of inaccurate and offensive presumptions.
EDIT: My MCAT finally posted today, hence my preoccupation in the post. It's not stellar, but acceptable, especially considering my years of research experience and number of publications. GL to all, I'll be adding the U soon.
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Looking through your stuff, you look to be very competitive here. The biggest hurdle will be the OOS. Other than that it all depends on how you do in the interviews, but you should stand a good chance of being offered one.
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Congrat, when did you submit your secondary? Oos applicant? what's your stat (only if you don't mind sharing). I just submitted mine two days ago.
@ Utah 13 - Rolling admission means that if you apply early you have a better chance of getting in. Basically they can fill up the entire class by the end of October. The U promises to interview everyone who meets basic criteria, regardless of when you apply. So you can send in your secondary on Dec 31 (I think that's the last day) and you will still be considered equally with everyone else that applied earlier. Wouldn't advise that but that's the idea.
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Thank you for your respond. Since the U is starting their interview on the 10th already, how soon do you think they would start accepting students ( January?), since they don't have a rolling admission.
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Secondary rec'd today. Thank you everyone for the help and good luck to all!
The U's acceptances are a little screwy, but this is how it works, to the best of my understanding.
Summary:
Around November to December a few people will be accepted and a bunch will be rejected. From December to April most people that hear anything will be rejected. Everyone else will hear the first week of April.
Full Text:
After you interview the interviewers do whatever it is that they do to score you and send this to the admissions committee
The admissions committee meets every week or two and looks at all of the information about each applicant that has completed the process to that point. They look at your applications, the interviewers comments, etc. and taking all of that into account they assign you a numerical score.
Here is where the no rolling admissions part comes in and where it gets a little frustrating for applicants.
Based on past experience the committee knows that people above a certain score will be eventually offered an acceptance and people below a certain score will not be offered an acceptance. Those people are either accepted or rejected generally sometime around November to December. This is a VERY SMALL MINORITY of the students that will be accepted at this time, and occasionally shortly after they interview between the months of January and April.
The MAJORITY of applicants scores fall somewhere in a middle no man's land. These applicants will not hear anything until all applicants have interviewed and the committee makes its final decisions. They will not hear anything until April of 2013. It does not matter how many times you call the admissions office you won't hear anything until then.
About the first week of April 2013 everyone who has not received notice to this point will receive a letter with an acceptance, an outright rejection or waitlisted.
Bonus information:
Many times the information in your online application portal will change well before you receive the letter notifying you of the change. For instance, I knew I had been accepted almost 10 days before I received the letter. All that happens is a new option shows up on the page where you login.
Some other schools send a large packet of information with the acceptance, the U does not. Acceptance letters are the same size/thickness as rejection letters so make sure you open and read the letter. I remember reading about a student a couple years ago who almost threw away his acceptance without opening it.
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For all those wondering about LORs, I just called and got a little more information:
- Only 1 letter can be counted for multiple areas, meaning you need a minimum of 5 total.
- The letters must be very specific in their content (ie. stating the exact class or relationship to applicant, etc).
- It is acceptable to send in additional letters or an addendum if yours don't meet content requirements. That said, I don't think there's a new deadline for your complete application so it's worth thinking about contingency plans early.
She opened my file and went through my letters with me, making sure that the content fit their requirements. It sounded like this is common for the process, especially since we don't see the letters before they are submitted.
Good luck to all!
PS: Feel free to PM if you want info about the Moab clinical scene...
- Only 1 letter can be counted for multiple areas, meaning you need a minimum of 5 total.
- The letters must be very specific in their content (ie. stating the exact class or relationship to applicant, etc).
- It is acceptable to send in additional letters or an addendum if yours don't meet content requirements. That said, I don't think there's a new deadline for your complete application so it's worth thinking about contingency plans early.
She opened my file and went through my letters with me, making sure that the content fit their requirements. It sounded like this is common for the process, especially since we don't see the letters before they are submitted.
Good luck to all!
PS: Feel free to PM if you want info about the Moab clinical scene...
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Good lord, mate, I could kiss you for this post! I have a teetering letter that I was very confused about and was dreading the call I'd need to make not knowing if they'd clarify since I waived my right to know anything. You totally made me feel a million times better about calling. Did you call a specific person or the general admission's number?
Have a great weekend.
EDIT: PM sent! Thank you!
In the secondary application, under the Premedical Course List, where it says "List only 1 biology course and 1 cell biology or biochemistry course to fulfill the biology requirement." Do you delete all the courses you have there and just leave 1 biology course and 1 cell bio or biochem course? Or can you just leave all the courses you have under there already?
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Yes, you delete all but what you want to fulfill the requirement, leaving only the required course(s).
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I just called the general admissions number and explained my question. The first lady who picked up was friendly and able to take care of everything. (prob should have written down her name...oops.)
PS: thanks for calling me "mate"! Haven't ever heard that one before. Let me know if you didn't get pm reply.
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