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2008-2009 Georgetown Secondary Application Thread

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Stixman28

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    In contrast, posters like neil100 say things like this school is a "disgrace to medicine" and incite an entire page of angry posts and curses, which doesn't really do much for the discussion.

    Ha, yeah, I suppose his passions really took hold there. I didnt feel as strongly about that, however, I was employed at Gtown for two years in the research wings, and was surprised how different the med school seemed from the academic philosophy of their grad school.

    Definitely different...disgrace? I dont know. I know several great doctors, great researchers and great people that have come out of gtown with their morals intact, their skills vast, and their intelligence unhindered by their lack of knowledge about how to perform an abortion specifically on the campus of the med school.
     

    blurryLines

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      They seemed to care little about research, which is something I am very into, despite their "research requirement". and, their students seemed a little "eh" on their own opinions of the school, e.g. "yup, it's med school, what can you do about it."

      Also, and I am sure this one will get folks riled up, I believe they falsely inflate their acceptance rate to move themselves up the US NEWS rankings. The way that they say, if you want to be at gtown, write us a letter, and you'll be accepted, to me, means that they accept a lot fewer people than they might otherwise. They CAP everyone, (keep in mind this did not happen to me) and then admit folks later. This lowers their acceptance rate which is a factor (unfortunately) on the US NEWS and WR rankings.

      These are also certainly valid concerns to have. If research is a huge factor for you, I definitely wouldn't call Georgetown a research powerhouse. You might be happier at a bigger school like U Penn or Yale. Still, I got the impression that there are plenty of opportunities to be had in research at Georgetown if you want them, especially since Washington DC has a huge variety of research institutions like the NIH and FDA close by that other schools don't have as much access to.

      Also, I can see what you mean about the US News rankings, but I would hardly say this is unique to Georgetown. I think there was just a bit of discussion over on the NYU secondary application thread about how they are waffling on when to release their decisions in order to maximize their "selectivity" for the purposes of rising up the US News rankings.

      As lamentable as they are, the rankings are an undeniable part of the application process for every school, and higher-ranked schools definitely attract better students regardless of the specifics of the programs offered. I can hardly blame schools for wanting to inflate themselves in that respect, but it can definitely make life as an applicant more frustrating.

      And I don't see what's wrong with Georgetown wanting to recruit students who really want to be there by asking for a letter. I'm sure it makes their waitlist a lot easier to sort through and it also makes the student body happier because it weeds out a lot of kids (but certainly not all) who didn't really want to go to Georgetown and simply picked it by default.

      Just some point/counterpoint, BTW, I'm not trying to argue or anything :thumbup:
       
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      Stixman28

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        And I don't see what's wrong with Georgetown wanting to recruit students who really want to be there by asking for a letter. I'm sure it makes their waitlist a lot easier to sort through and it also makes the student body happier because it weeds out a lot of kids (but certainly not all) who didn't really want to go to Georgetown and simply picked it by default.

        Just some point/counterpoint, BTW, I'm not trying to argue or anything :thumbup:

        Friendly banter is fine, we will just leave the name calling out, or if anyone wants, they can call themselves a name.

        My point about this was that it is a byproduct of their technique to work up the rankings. e.g. if they give out 50 acceptances for 25 spots, and 95% choose not to matriculate, then they need to accept another 45-47 students to fill up those 25 spots, maybe even more. So in the end they have let in at least 100 for the 25 spots.

        But, if instead, they accept 10 ppl for the 25 spots, and tell the rest they are on the wait list, and to write a letter, yes of course they will get ppl that are highly motivated to attend gtown, which is good, but also, they can give out 15 acceptances to 15 ppl they know want to attend. In the end, giving out 25 acceptances for 25 spots, and reducing there acceptance rate to a quarter of what it was in the other scenario.

        Again, I believe this is an attempt to artificially reduced the acceptance rate.
         

        blurryLines

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          Friendly banter is fine, we will just leave the name calling out, or if anyone wants, they can call themselves a name.

          My point about this was that it is a byproduct of their technique to work up the rankings. e.g. if they give out 50 acceptances for 25 spots, and 95% choose not to matriculate, then they need to accept another 45-47 students to fill up those 25 spots, maybe even more. So in the end they have let in at least 100 for the 25 spots.

          But, if instead, they accept 10 ppl for the 25 spots, and tell the rest they are on the wait list, and to write a letter, yes of course they will get ppl that are highly motivated to attend gtown, which is good, but also, they can give out 15 acceptances to 15 ppl they know want to attend.

          Again, I believe this is an attempt to artificially reduced the acceptance rate.

          I definitely see your point and I agree with you. They are both artificially reducing the acceptance rate and getting people who really want to go to their school. Haha ... I guess from their perspective, this is a win-win situation! :laugh:

          I'm thinking of a good name to call myself as I type this ...
           

          takhara

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            I definitely see your point and I agree with you. They are both artificially reducing the acceptance rate and getting people who really want to go to their school. Haha ... I guess from their perspective, this is a win-win situation! :laugh:

            I'm thinking of a good name to call myself as I type this ...
            I think another way their acceptance rate is deflated is through the amount of people who list gtown on the primary just because of its name/location and then ditch when they see the secondary. Last year, they had ~11000 people list them on primary due to its name/location, but only 6500 or so completed secondaries. Of course, the other 4500 still count in the "acceptance rate" at the end of the day. The fact that this bumps them in the rankings is not totally fair, in my opinion. WashU has twice the acceptance rate as Gtown because so many people self-select due to their crazy stats. There's no way this should play a part in the rankings.
             

            Retsage

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              No, I don't think the number of applications has anything to do with it. From what I understand, the acceptance rate talked about is the number of people accepted versus the number who matriculate.
               

              rcd

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                I was very interested in G-Town, took their secondary seriously, had stats a few SD's above their average/median accepted GPA/MCAT and got rejected two weeks after I applied. Georgetown, you broke my heart :/.
                 

                airplanes

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                  I was very interested in G-Town, took their secondary seriously, had stats a few SD's above their average/median accepted GPA/MCAT and got rejected two weeks after I applied. Georgetown, you broke my heart :/.

                  I remember seeing a lot of people with stellar credentials getting rejected post-sec and I was really confused.
                   
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                  neil100

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                    Friendly banter is fine, we will just leave the name calling out, or if anyone wants, they can call themselves a name.

                    My point about this was that it is a byproduct of their technique to work up the rankings. e.g. if they give out 50 acceptances for 25 spots, and 95% choose not to matriculate, then they need to accept another 45-47 students to fill up those 25 spots, maybe even more. So in the end they have let in at least 100 for the 25 spots.

                    But, if instead, they accept 10 ppl for the 25 spots, and tell the rest they are on the wait list, and to write a letter, yes of course they will get ppl that are highly motivated to attend gtown, which is good, but also, they can give out 15 acceptances to 15 ppl they know want to attend. In the end, giving out 25 acceptances for 25 spots, and reducing there acceptance rate to a quarter of what it was in the other scenario.

                    Again, I believe this is an attempt to artificially reduced the acceptance rate.

                    Thanks everyone for actually talking about the issue. Also, if I just may say something. I never cursed in any of my posts. All of the bashing and name calling was started by futuredoc13. I peacefully described that he needs to stop being immature. But, there were just some instances where I just had to resort to calling him a ***** and stuff because that is what he displayed of his character.
                    And how did the user retsage joined futuredoc13 into immature bashing? Anyways, Get well soon.

                    Btw, I believe that I went overboard when I said GT is a disgrace to medicine. But, I will not back away from what I felt about the school. Also, I never tried to impose my belief on other people. That is against what I stated originally. I continuously said that I wanted a well-thought discussion and then a person like futuredoc13 came along.

                    This school is only for certain people. If you do decide to go to GT, I hope you are happy there.
                    Good luck guys.
                     

                    DrJD

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                      Yeah, the GEMS and SMP kids crowding the first year classes is one of my concerns about Georgetown too. I asked my tour guide about it when I was there, but they definitely didn't advertise that in the admissions office or anything :rolleyes:

                      I decided to check it out more before making a final decision, but thanks for posting a legitimate and non-imflammatory or derogatory reason for your decision to withdraw. Good luck wherever you decide to go!

                      Hey, I'm in the SMP here at Georgetown right now and I just wanted to reassure those of you who were worried about the large class size. For one thing, of the 400ish students or so, they don't all go to class every day so there are quite a few less than that actually in the class room.

                      The teachers do not change the way they address you because the SMP/GEMS students are in there. Based on the way they speak you would think we were all MD students. Also, the class size just doesn't feel that big. The first year med students seem to all have a really good rapport with each other and the professors. The professors seem to always know the names of the medical students, etc.

                      You are right, there are definitely more than 150 students in the lectures, but the SMP students aren't down in the anatomy lab with you, or in your clinical medicine courses. I have my own opinions about being here at Georgetown, but I wouldn't let the class size dissuade you. Let me know if you have any questions that you didn't get answered during your interview I'd be happy to help in anyway I can!
                       

                      DrJD

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                        Thanks everyone for actually talking about the issue. Also, if I just may say something. I never cursed in any of my posts. All of the bashing and name calling was started by futuredoc13. I peacefully described that he needs to stop being immature. But, there were just some instances where I just had to resort to calling him a ***** and stuff because that is what he displayed of his character.
                        And how did the user retsage joined futuredoc13 into immature bashing? Anyways, Get well soon.

                        Btw, I believe that I went overboard when I said GT is a disgrace to medicine. But, I will not back away from what I felt about the school. Also, I never tried to impose my belief on other people. That is against what I stated originally. I continuously said that I wanted a well-thought discussion and then a person like futuredoc13 came along.

                        This school is only for certain people. If you do decide to go to GT, I hope you are happy there.
                        Good luck guys.

                        BTW- You are entitled to your opinions, but as a student here at Georgetown I can say that NONE of the things you have complained about have come up since the beginning of the school year. I'm in the SMP program and have had quite a few classes so far and you really can't tell the difference between this and any other school. VERY occasionally they will bring up the whole "cura personalis" thing, but even that is VERY rare.

                        What they say in an interview and in a missions statement aren't always what it is actually like in the class room. Will you do abortions? No... Will you at other medical schools? No... Will you observe and learn the procedure for one at Georgetown? Essentially Yes... There are cases where evacuation of the fetus is done for medical reasons so the scientific knowledge, you will learn. Will it technically be an "abortion"? Definitely not, but I promise you that your education will not be hurt by attending a school with a religious affiliation.
                         

                        Stixman28

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                          The teachers do not change the way they address you because the SMP/GEMS students are in there. Based on the way they speak you would think we were all MD students.

                          Ok, so I am really going to take heat for this one I'm sure. You can call me elitist or whatever you want...but what I have bolded above was definitely part of the issue.

                          It's not just that there are 400 students in the class, whether they are present or not. The SMP/GEMS are not med students, and as I said above, for 40k, I want the full attention of the professors.

                          I recognize that this may sound childish or selfish, like when a youngest child wants the attention from his parents that his older siblings might be harboring. but this is the reason i felt slightly lied to, alluding to my earlier post.

                          I am glad such a program exists for people in your situation DrJD, it is nice to be able to show med schools you can handle the load. But again, just not the right fit for me.
                           

                          slowbutsteady

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                            Friendly banter is fine, we will just leave the name calling out, or if anyone wants, they can call themselves a name.

                            My point about this was that it is a byproduct of their technique to work up the rankings. e.g. if they give out 50 acceptances for 25 spots, and 95% choose not to matriculate, then they need to accept another 45-47 students to fill up those 25 spots, maybe even more. So in the end they have let in at least 100 for the 25 spots.

                            But, if instead, they accept 10 ppl for the 25 spots, and tell the rest they are on the wait list, and to write a letter, yes of course they will get ppl that are highly motivated to attend gtown, which is good, but also, they can give out 15 acceptances to 15 ppl they know want to attend. In the end, giving out 25 acceptances for 25 spots, and reducing there acceptance rate to a quarter of what it was in the other scenario.

                            Again, I believe this is an attempt to artificially reduced the acceptance rate.

                            Well, i was CAPed last cycle; wrote the letter; got in; didn't go. so their system doesn't work perfectly.

                            not to enter the fray here, because I really have no dog in this fight, but one of the reasons I didn't go to Georgetown was because I heard from a reliable source (a GT med alum) that they are in serious financial trouble. that worried me.
                             

                            blackbird11384

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                              The Medical Center is not in financial trouble. The Hospital is what was bleeding money, and therefore sapping money from the Medical Center. The Hospital has now completely righted itself, and is now profitable. The Medical Center has never seen better revenue streams or grant revenue than it has right now. I still don't know why people don't research this stuff instead of taking an old anecdote to heart.

                              To add to this, the reason that the Medical Center facilities aren't the nicest, is not an indicator of their financial trouble. It has much to do with the overall universities endowment and philanthropic gifts (Georgetown University is lean and mean with an endowment hovering around 850 million). But, I believe that the Medical Center is waiting for a very large (in excess of 70 million dollars) gift that is guaranteed to them. I could go into it, but let's just say it involves an old lady, her dead husband's fortune, and depends on said old lady's death. I don't want jinx anything, and then read about this poor woman's death in a few days.
                               
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                              GolfMustang07

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                                OK neil, Ill respond to your original statements.

                                I wouldnt go this far, but...the school wasn't for me, as I said earlier somewhere...probably ten pages ago by now.

                                Largely this is because their 200 person medical student class turns into 400 ppl when they toss in the GEMS and the SMP's. If I pay 40k to go somewhere, I want to be 1 out of 150 or 200...not 400. I felt a little bit lied to.

                                Maybe I am better suited to criticize the program...folks may think your just bitter at not being accepted and thus insulting gtown. I am not bitter, I was accepted, I was just a little shocked by how much Gtown did not do it for me. They seemed to care little about research, which is something I am very into, despite their "research requirement". and, their students seemed a little "eh" on their own opinions of the school, e.g. "yup, it's med school, what can you do about it."

                                Also, and I am sure this one will get folks riled up, I believe they falsely inflate their acceptance rate to move themselves up the US NEWS rankings. The way that they say, if you want to be at gtown, write us a letter, and you'll be accepted, to me, means that they accept a lot fewer people than they might otherwise. They CAP everyone, (keep in mind this did not happen to me) and then admit folks later. This lowers their acceptance rate which is a factor (unfortunately) on the US NEWS and WR rankings.

                                Heads up though guys, when you get in an argument like you all have been in, ad hominem attacks, rather than thoughtful claims about opinions, you risk getting tossed off sdn...

                                Better news for the rest of you!!! I decided not to accept my acceptance today. I hope one of you enjoys my spot, and your time there. I wish you the best!


                                First, thank you for withdrawing... gives me more of a chance.

                                Second, I know that the ratio of matriculated/accepted gets factored into US NEWS report for ranking med schools. However, i didnt know how much so i did some research. Suprisingly this factor is only 1 percent of the overall score. MCAT/GPA is much more highly regarded. So... that may not be the driving force for the school wanting CAPd individuals to write a letter.

                                Well Good luck!

                                To bad you couldnt have just given your acceptance to one of us... haha


                                Edit: I just saw a previous post. I could have acceptance rate confused with student selectivity. Anyone know what the differences are?
                                 
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                                DrJD

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                                  Ok, so I am really going to take heat for this one I'm sure. You can call me elitist or whatever you want...but what I have bolded above was definitely part of the issue.

                                  It's not just that there are 400 students in the class, whether they are present or not. The SMP/GEMS are not med students, and as I said above, for 40k, I want the full attention of the professors.

                                  I recognize that this may sound childish or selfish, like when a youngest child wants the attention from his parents that his older siblings might be harboring. but this is the reason i felt slightly lied to, alluding to my earlier post.

                                  I am glad such a program exists for people in your situation DrJD, it is nice to be able to show med schools you can handle the load. But again, just not the right fit for me.

                                  I don't blame you, I feel the same exact way. But I know as an SMP student I actually feel like we get practically no attention... As in, they give so much attention to the medical students that we are basically just people sitting in the room with them. Now, I don't complain because I think it SHOULD be this way, but they truly do give the preference and most of the attention to the medical students.

                                  I don't think you are elitist by the way, we've all worked hard to get accepted to medical school and so wanting to get the attention of the professors that you can become an excellent physician is only natural... good luck wherever you decide to go!
                                   

                                  icarus8

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                                    Also, I can see what you mean about the US News rankings, but I would hardly say this is unique to Georgetown. I think there was just a bit of discussion over on the NYU secondary application thread about how they are waffling on when to release their decisions in order to maximize their "selectivity" for the purposes of rising up the US News rankings.
                                    I think there is a big difference between strategically timing the release of decisions to try and maximize the number of people who'll say yes, which is irritating but is done at many schools, and outright waitlisting people and requiring an extra letter about why you want to go to the school. Especially given the novel I wrote on the secondary under "Why Georgetown?" I still liked the school by the way, not knocking anything here.
                                     

                                    Decicco

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                                      I think there is a big difference between strategically timing the release of decisions to try and maximize the number of people who'll say yes, which is irritating but is done at many schools, and outright waitlisting people and requiring an extra letter about why you want to go to the school. Especially given the novel I wrote on the secondary under "Why Georgetown?" I still liked the school by the way, not knocking anything here.

                                      Just about every school I applied to is playing this game, just in different ways. Some waitlist you, while others just make you wait until march to hear a decision. The gtown waitlist letter is really just a LOI, similar to the ones recommended by every other school that I am familiar with.
                                       
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                                      stixx

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                                        Just about every school I applied to is playing this game, just in different ways. Some waitlist you, while others just make you wait until march to hear a decision. The gtown waitlist letter is really just a LOI, similar to the ones recommended by every other school that I am familiar with.
                                        I've never heard of another school where you have to write an LOI to get off the waitlist.
                                         

                                        GolfMustang07

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                                          I interviewed on December 3rd and still haven't heard anything. It will be 10 weeks on Wednesday. I am hoping it will be this week:xf:


                                          give it another week until you get something in the mail... It took mine 10 weeks and 6 days.... All that waiting to be told i have to wait longer. Hopefully you will get an acceptence and maybe a phone call in the next couple of days. If you call they will tell you if a decision has been made.... atleast they did for me. However, it just made me worry more.

                                          good luck!
                                           

                                          Decicco

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                                            I've never heard of another school where you have to write an LOI to get off the waitlist.

                                            You don't have to do anything. I know a number of schools where you can expect not to get off the waitlist without an LOI. The game is called medical school rankings and all schools play it.
                                             

                                            tp081

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                                              thanks...but do you know if they are strict about the 1 page limit...because i whipped up an essay about why i want to go to gtown but also included some activities/jobs I have been involved in over the past 3 months...its 2 pages... do you remember if its a strict 3 paragraph/1 page deal?...or can you send just any essay
                                               
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                                              hapaguy

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                                                thanks...but do you know if they are strict about the 1 page limit...because i whipped up an essay about why i want to go to gtown but also included some activities/jobs I have been involved in over the past 3 months...its 2 pages... do you remember if its a strict 3 paragraph/1 page deal?...or can you send just any essay


                                                I dont think they will instantly reject you if its more than what they are asking for...the way i see it is, the letter should reflect why you want to go to Gtown, if your new activities/jobs shed some light on that then add it. More than anything they probably want a no "fluff" letter.

                                                However this is just my opinion and i am still wait listed.
                                                 

                                                DrCio

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                                                  thanks...but do you know if they are strict about the 1 page limit...because i whipped up an essay about why i want to go to gtown but also included some activities/jobs I have been involved in over the past 3 months...its 2 pages... do you remember if its a strict 3 paragraph/1 page deal?...or can you send just any essay


                                                  I wrote one that was about 1.5 pages, 4 paragraphs or so and I got in 3 weeks later. I will say that I wasn't BSing I really love the school and could have gone on and on but I chose one or two specific things that I was passionate about and wrote why.
                                                   

                                                  DrJD

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                                                    Hey there,

                                                    I had a question for all of you who are really excited to come here. I was just curious what other schools you are turning down to come here?
                                                     

                                                    sandy86

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                                                      Are there any of you who were CAPed, wrote the letter, and are not 100% sure about going to Georgetown? Or is it understood that if you write the letter you will be going there?
                                                       

                                                      DrChristianTroy

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                                                        Are there any of you who were CAPed, wrote the letter, and are not 100% sure about going to Georgetown? Or is it understood that if you write the letter you will be going there?

                                                        I wrote the letter and actually recently got in off of the CAP, however I am pretty sure that I will not be going there next year (90% sure). When I wrote the letter, I was seriously considering G-Town. However now that I got into Maryland and live in Baltimore, the financial aspect of things has basically made me rule out the G-town.

                                                        If you cannot see yourself going there, then don't bother with the letter. However if you think that you might possibly want to attend, write the letter and see what happens. What is the worst that could happen?
                                                         

                                                        GolfMustang07

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                                                          Are there any of you who were CAPed, wrote the letter, and are not 100% sure about going to Georgetown? Or is it understood that if you write the letter you will be going there?


                                                          I have heard in the past the people have written letters gotten in and then turned it down. I would say if you arent seriously considering matriculating then dont write it.
                                                           

                                                          DrJD

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                                                            Hey I know this is random but does anyone know if Med students get a discount on gtown basketball tickets?

                                                            There is a small discount but it is still ridiculously expensive... Well I guess that depends on how much you want to go... I think as a student it would still cost me 20 bucks for a ticket...
                                                             

                                                            blurryLines

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                                                              so who else is going to the second look day this friday? I'll be there. Also of people going, how serious are you about going to Gtown?

                                                              I'll be there. Of the four acceptances I have, I think Georgetown is currently #2 on my list. I really liked the school from the interview day and I'm definitely eager to see more of it on Friday. One of my biggest reservations is the cost vs. my state school, but I'm keeping an open mind since I haven't seen any financial aid packages yet.
                                                               

                                                              Enroh

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                                                              1. Medical Student
                                                                I asked about a week ago but go no response- my interview is March 4th... What's the deal with this early second look day? Am I to assume that I'm just interviewing for no reason? Anyone else interviewing then?
                                                                 

                                                                lildoc

                                                                Full Member
                                                                10+ Year Member
                                                                Oct 17, 2008
                                                                112
                                                                3
                                                                Saint Louis
                                                                www.mdapplicants.com
                                                                1. Pre-Medical
                                                                  I asked about a week ago but go no response- my interview is March 4th... What's the deal with this early second look day? Am I to assume that I'm just interviewing for no reason? Anyone else interviewing then?

                                                                  Agreed. I interviewed 1/5 and still will probably not hear in time even if I did get the acceptance. anyone know why the second look day is so early?
                                                                   
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