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What day are you interviewing?
2012-2013 University of Texas Southwestern Application Thread
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I just got an interview invitation as well.
OOS, 3.94, 38Q, "application received" 7/24, submitted secondary 7/29
OOS, 3.94, 38Q, "application received" 7/24, submitted secondary 7/29
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So I am an out of state student who has interviewed at three Texas schools thus far and have received an interview invite now to every Texas school except for the two that I did not apply to. So far in talking to the students at the three schools I have been to, I have heard almost unanimously that the least happy students in Texas are the ones that go to Southwestern. Has anyone else heard this? Please comment if possible...I could care less about how prestigious a school is if the quality of life is lower.
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I've heard at that at every texas school lol... they really like to hate on southwestern. From what I've heard from actual southwestern students, the rumors are very overblown.
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Houston is probably just salty :>.
On the real though, I haven't heard anything about that. Everybody I know is happy at each of their med schools.
On the real though, I haven't heard anything about that. Everybody I know is happy at each of their med schools.
I've noticed the same! They all love to hate. I did research at UT Southwestern, and everyone I met seemed very positive about the school. I'll be really curious to hear what the students say during the interview weekend.
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I have not heard anything similar about Baylor...So it can't be a simple case of "hating on the prestigious school." Its been a red flag to me for sure...
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Yeah I have an interview at Baylor on the 21st and then an interview at Southwestern on the 28th/29th....I am thinking about turning down the interview, because I am an out of stater and don't want to have to stay in Texas for a week. Is there any current Southwestern students that have anything negative/positive to say?
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UTSW is arguably the best med school in Texas and one of the best values in the US. Dallas is also a culturally interesting city to live in.
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Why is it arguably the best medical school in Texas? Rankings are meaningless if the students are not as happy.
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If you want to be happy, go to a Caribbean school. If you want to win a Nobel Prize, go to UTSW (or an Ivy League if you're rich).
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lolwut? sure is generalizing here
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UTSW is associated with Nobel Prizes due to the number of Nobel Prize winners there.
Also I HAVE heard that Caribbean med school students are a lot happier, my brother's friend is going to one atm and he loves it there. Granted he may not like it so much as the hurricane pulls in closer to him...
I've also heard negative things about the doctors and students at UTSW from students that interviewed at UTSW for med school or residency. Apparently, there is a certain personality present at UTSW that really turns people off. I'm guessing it has something to do with the cutthroat-ness at UTSW and lots of gunners there. I don't think the environment is as collaborative as other schools in TX.
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Ummmm...Students and vanderbilt and Yale are happy...(in response to Justin Stuart)
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I guess I have something to look forward to...
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Unless they have changed things this year, every non-TX resident admitted to Southwestern gets IS tuition plus a $1k/yr scholarship. This is disclosed during the pre-interview day (friday) financial aid presentation. My tuition+fees bill (after scholarship) for this year was $16,231.
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I know how scary all the costs from interviewing are (I spent upwards of $5k on my app cycle), but isn't it a bit early to be turning down an interview to a top 25 (or any school really)? You don't even have an acceptance yet. Nor do you have an acceptance at a dirt-cheap school like UTSW ($16,200/yr for an OOSer). Even if you did not want to attend UTSW it would be to your benefit to be accepted here so you can attempt to get the school you do want to attend to match UTSW's price (a long shot that would happen, but there are some success stories).
So my advice...I would put up with temporary inconveniences and costs and make every effort to attend both interviews...unless, after extensive research and a few nights of sleeping on it, you really, really, really cannot see yourself attending that school. If the interview date you have is not to your liking then try to reschedule it. Maybe even schedule it for sometime after Oct 15 so if you get an acceptance you prefer by then, you can then cancel your interview. If you literally do not have money to attend the interview day, call the school and see if they can help you get there. I think these are better choices than simply turning down the interview immediately.
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Yeah I have already had a verbal commitment (essentially a guarantee--yes i know there are some unfortunate exceptions) from one of the Texas Schools... so getting accepted already is not an issue. All the negative talk about Southwestern has really bugged me though.
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Well if you think that without even looking at the school then by all means don't go. I definitely won't mind you not interviewing lol.
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Or when it comes time to apply to residencies. According to recent statistics, Caribbean graduates have a 50% match rate compared to 94.1% of North American graduates.
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I have two friends at Southwestern and one of them said the school is okay, mostly because he likes his classmates, but he says the lifestyle is very stressful. The other one is extremely stressed out, especially prior to step 1. Take it as a grain of salt though, I'm sure the med school experience is what you make of it (like college).
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I never knew there was a sizable amount to the point where they became associated with Nobel Prizes. That's pretty cool.
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I don't really know about that... southwestern has 4 on their faculty. There are definitely other schools with more.
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Yep that is a big deal at utsw. The 2011 nobel prize in phys and med was awarded to one of their faculty member.
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Also you wont have really any contact with the winners. They don't have any student oriented roles.
I do believe so. I remember one of the OOS students in my class telling me she only paid in-state tuition.
This is false in some ways. As part of the MD/PhD program at UTSW, I can say that Drs. Brown and Goldstein take an active role running the program and appear at many weekly research seminars and talks. They also have many students (MD/PhD and medical students) rotate through their lab or do their graduate work there. In fact, even people where I'm from (in the Northeast) who are at least knowledgeable about science, when I say I'm in the MSTP at UT Southwestern, they go "Oh! That's Brown and Goldstein's program isn't it?" so that shows how involved they are with training and mentoring students.
Dr. Beutler is also very receptive. He personally met with me for an hour or so to talk during my revisit and he gave the introductory lecture for the MS1 biochem course this year on the first day of med school. Besides that I've also met and talked with students who worked with the Nobel prize winners and published with them.
While it is true that outside of the MSTP the Nobel winners do not have active med school administrative roles, they are very available as research mentors.
I don't know about you, but that would actually turn me off from a school if students started bashing other schools during the interview. Every med school has its strengths and weaknesses but to openly be negative about another school? That's both a breach of etiquette and completely uncalled for. I mean it's OK if the person says "Oh I interviewed there and I didn't like it because blah blah blah" because the person is speaking from personal experience and is giving a personal opinion (usually after being solicited). But to just come out and start the bashing another school? I'd probably turn and run the other way ASAP. But that's just me and how I react to things like that.
But to address your point (and question). UT Southwestern (like all med schools) is intense. Premed are a neurotic type A bunch to begin with. But it's not cutthroat. There's no curving and the grade cutoff that's published is the one that is used whether or not the entire class gets an A. Is it pass/fail all 2 years like some other schools? No, it's only 1 semester. Does it matter? Not very much. Clinical grades are what counts the most anyway. UTSW doesn't make pretenses about having Honors/Pass/Fail like some schools and will rank you like other schools that also keep internal rankings. But you are all premeds. You've been through this stuff before. You're not going to med school to slack off anyway. The goal here is to learn stuff and the students at UTSW take that to heart, grade or no grade.
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I think the policy is if you are awarded a 1000 dollar scholarship then you pay instate tuition. It's strange.
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Thanks. I never talked about Southwestern during my actual interviews. I talked to students of my own accord (many of whom I stayed the night with) about their experiences at the other Texas medical schools. A lot of people are hearing similar things, which is more than interesting to say the least.
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Lots of great info. guys, didn't realize that two of the winners weren't really that involved with the research programs (I assumed that med students would at least be somewhat involved in some of their work due to the large academic focus in UTSW). Granted as much as I laud UTSW, I'm from Dallas and I love the city I was born and raised in so take my advice with a grain of salt 🙂. SBR249 thanks a lot for the info., its always great to know more about my reach school.
@Sliceofbread136, even if there is only 4, that is quite a large # (not really, but comparatively ya know) compared to other schools in Texas. I don't recall any other Texas schools lauding their numbers of Nobel Prize winners.
Overall, thanks for the feedback/info. about UTSW!
@Sliceofbread136, even if there is only 4, that is quite a large # (not really, but comparatively ya know) compared to other schools in Texas. I don't recall any other Texas schools lauding their numbers of Nobel Prize winners.
Overall, thanks for the feedback/info. about UTSW!
The thing about Nobel winners is that due to the nature of how the prizes are awarded, many Nobel prize winners are quite advanced in age or in their careers when they are honored. So for UTSW, it's quite exceptional that they have so many active faculty who are Nobel laureates. And these faculty are still producing very good work. But there are other measures of great scientists besides Nobel winners, such as National Academy of Science members, HHMI investigators, Lasker prize winners, etc etc. I believe that UTSW does very well in at least the first 2 categories as well.
gotterdammerung: I'm sure there is a grain of truth behind some of those rumors, however, it's almost akin to a game of telephone. With thing such as quality of life and student satisfaction, it's very difficult to gauge what it's like unless you talk with actual students. Even then, it's anecdotal at best. The best that other people who are hundreds of miles away can give you are snapshots of secondhand impressions. I'm not going to say much more on this, but I'll just say that I trusted my gut feelings and my own personal observations more than anything I was told on the interview trail.
gotterdammerung: I'm sure there is a grain of truth behind some of those rumors, however, it's almost akin to a game of telephone. With thing such as quality of life and student satisfaction, it's very difficult to gauge what it's like unless you talk with actual students. Even then, it's anecdotal at best. The best that other people who are hundreds of miles away can give you are snapshots of secondhand impressions. I'm not going to say much more on this, but I'll just say that I trusted my gut feelings and my own personal observations more than anything I was told on the interview trail.
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Cool, congrats! I don't know what a verbal commitment is--if you mean that your father is chief of neurosurgery at Baylor then I can see how it is a guarantee, but if this was from an interviewer I would be careful. I'm not doubting that your source is solid, I just don't know what it is. I also had an interviewer at one place basically tell me I would be accepted (which I was eventually), but I did not let up until I had the actual acceptance letter in my hand. If you search this site there are plenty of stories where applicants were mislead by their interviewers. I personally thought my interviews at Baylor went very, very well (way better than some of the interviews I had at places I was accepted, one of the interviewers said I "would be a great addition to Baylor") but I didn't get in. Similar things happened to me at other schools too. It's an unpredictable game.
I was kind of the other way around...after getting an Oct 15 accept at UMich and rocking my UTSW interview, I thought about skipping my Baylor interview because I thought I already had one Texas school locked up, and because some students at the UTSW day ragged on how Baylor's financial situation was sending them down the gutter or how their students are soft. I thought about skipping out on Northwestern after hearing rumors about how everyone there is a douchebag. I thought about skipping out on my state school because it wasn't a top 25. I still went to all of them and I'm glad I did. I even ended up getting a big fat scholarship at my state school (though I was rejected by Baylor & Feinberg). All of them had plenty of things going for them. In most cases I felt like all the rumors were exaggerated, out-dated, only true on a case-by-case basis, true at just about every medical school, impossible to know the answer to, or completely unimportant to me in my med school selection.
I think you're going to hear negative rumors about any rival school. Of course the students you spoke with at Baylor don't like Southwestern, they have pride in the their school and chose it because they thought they were a good fit (many of them choosing it over UTSW). It was the same case at Northwestern--the students there ragged on Pritzker (and vice-versa). It was the same at Penn--the students there ragged on Harvard. I imagine if you interviewed here, some people would rag on Baylor.
I know you're looking for an answer to the question "is UTSW a happy place?" but I don't think you're going to find it on SDN. Some students love it, and I'm sure some don't. I thought I would be happiest here so I chose it.
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I find it amusing when someone feels a need to denigrate the reputation of another school in order to "sell" their own school.
I would visit the school and talk to the students before making any decisions about a school. You might find that you like it, or you might find that you hate it. I certainly wouldn't allow an anecdote from a nameless "friend of a friend" influence such an important decision.
Personally, I've spent more time socializing / working out here than I have studying. It's been a blast so far (even with our most recent biochem test). 🙂
You'll probably bump into a lot of students during lunch. Free food is wonderful.
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Have you tried moving your interview date around? The admissions staff is generally pretty flexible about that sort of thing.
Research dollars. Don't base your school decisions on rankings, though ... fit is much more important. If you're into research, though, you won't find many places better than UTSW.
Any med student who tells you they aren't stressed out by the prospect of taking Step 1 is a filthy liar.
👍
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Thanks so much for all of the thoughts. I would like to clarify that I have not talked to students from Baylor about Southwestern. Rather, it was students at other medical schools. There was a pretty strong consensus among 6 of them that I asked separately about their feelings towards those respective universities. Still, 6 is a small sample size in the grand scheme of things. I suppose that no matter how strong an applicant I am, it would be foolish to turn down any interviews.
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I also find it a bit suspicious, why the need to do so? But you have to distinguish students from the school's faculty and staff.
During my interview at Texas Tech Lubbock, the Dean of the school himself admitted that for anyone interested in research, UTSW is the best place. I can tell you that TT Lubbock's folks have impressed me a lot.
So I think the advice has been given here to make decisions based on facts rather than rumors. I personally think very highly of UTSW and in general of all Texas Med Schools. UTSW is a well known school that provide students with impeccable training. And I am sure that any school in Texas does that as well. Just an opinion (and I am not attending UTSW, I was a research faculty there though). For my part, attending any school in Texas would be great. But it is true that given the settings and my own goals, UTSW is the cherry on the cake.
Now what the rumors say about the competition, the students and so on, frankly I think all of these are way overblown. All this doesn't sound too right to my ears. I can tell that the admission folks over there are just fantastic. The level of "counseling" I received as an applicant as well as the help, and time provided to me were just amazing. Mrs McLane is a person with the utmost kindness, and the info she gives is rock solid. I don't know how she can be so helpful, kind and available with the amount of work she has. So definitely, the school is worth checking.
My 2 cents.
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How late into the year does the UTSW interview cycle extend?
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I have seen that somewhere on their website. They give an application timeline. Sorry I don't remember the dates. check it out.
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Until early January, according to their website:
http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...sions/-how-to-apply/application-timeline.html.
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^to add onto the previous post:
http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...s/-how-to-apply/admissions-process/index.html
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Alright I'm an MS1 at Southwestern and I'm going to try and give you an accurate account of everything.
I myself was having a hard time picking UTSW because of the perceived gunner reputation of the school (which was true some 4 - 5 years ago before the college system and absolute grading). So as an outsider before, I too was weary of this reputation. Essentially, the reputation came from 5 or so years ago and individuals who do not go to UTSW only rely on heresay that goes around about the school (which is that it's a gunner school). But having attended 3 weeks of school, I can tell you that the gunner reputation is absolutely wrong.
So what changed in 5 years? First, the college system was introduced. Ask any rice student how amazing the college system is and why they love Rice and they will tell you 🙂 The college system fosters friendly competition between colleges, and it really brings together individuals 🙂 it's like having 6 small families within the class. Now that changed a lot, but ofcourse absolute grading meant that there was no curve anymore 🙂 One person's success was not the failure of another person anymore. So people really started helping each other. And you would be amazed at how much everyone is helping!!!!! I have never seen such a cohesive and helpful group of individuals in my life. Ask any question on our class of 2016 facebook group, and you'll get 10 responses within an hour with people chiming in. People are sharing notes all the time (we have an O drive which is accessible to only UTSW students, so essentially students go ahead and post their notes on there). I don't attend lectures personally (i like sleep), so I like those notes 🙂 and before our first exam, people were compiling notes and making all sorts of helpful sheets and posting those on the O drive. I remember one person posted EXTREMELY helpful flashcards 🙂 I used those to review. And another person took 150 pages of material and condensed it into 14 pages of essential facts you need to know 😛 So really...I've honestly NEVER seen this kind of sharing between people. A good friend of mine posts emails out his notes every lecture (he takes good notes lolz). And then ofcourse if you're having any sort of trouble with the VPN or anything, just ask on the facebook group and BAM someone will immediately help out.
While we have a really cohesive student body, we have some amazing people that go to school. The caliber of people at UTSW is just astounding. Everyone is super helpful, but at the same time, everyone is brilliant. I know a person (MS2) who is a part of 4 organizations and an anatomy TA (as well as a dad for 2 beautiful children). You would think that he wouldn't have time for life and other things. But I had a few questions about medical school before classes had started, and he sat down for an hour or so and told me about everything 🙂 And then I have some amazing class fellows. This is the most amazing group of individuals I have met honestly.
And I guess it is worth mentioning that we at UTSW know how to have fun!!! I have had more fun in 3 weeks of med school compared to my 4 years of college. I have already gotten to know half of my class by name (a good 120 people). I am not kidding when I say that every day of the weekend we have atleast 3 - 4 social events happen. For example, yesterday, after anatomy lab (boohooo for anatomy), a group of people went to velvet taco for dinner (not that exciting huh?). So that was at 7 pm. From there we went to Beer garden (and doesn't matter if you don't drink 🙂...I don't drink but it's always fun hanging out with my friends). And then from there we went to mckinney street (whihc is where all the bars are) and we were at quarter bar. And then, we went to the den, which is a pretty cool dance club/bar. And yes, we all danced the night away 🙂 The point is, we all like having fun 🙂 med school is hard. And we understand what everyone is going through. And once it's the weekend, we all go out and have fun. I have honestly been to more social gatherings at UTSW than my entire college career.
Now that I look back, I LOVE my life at UTSW. I am extremely happy that I chose this school over my other options. Having met the people at school, I can say for a fact that the unhappy/gunner reputation for the school is not true. We are a happy bunch 🙂 I did my undergrad at Rice U. And people at Rice are the happiest students EVER (according to US news atleast ). And honestly, I'm happier than I've been at Rice, which is saying A LOT since I was very happy at Rice as well.
If anyone has any questions/concerns about UTSW, shoot me a message. And I will get back to you guys (which btw reminds me that the student rep from MS1 who was just elected to represent UTSW at the interviews is an AMAZING person. Just yesterday she brought 50 lbs of flour and was baking zucchini bread and pound cakes for everyone at school. A lot of poeple were helping as well).
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Does anyone think it will be slightly easier to get into the aoa honor society by going to a less competitive/lower tier school? I heard it's important to be in the aoa if you want to go into a competitive specialty. Theoretically do you have a lower chance of getting into the honor society at utsw than other Tx schools because of the caliber of students?
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I do believe that Alpha Omega Alpha admits students based solely on their USMLE Step 1 score. So a more highly competitive school should in theory challenge you more, and thereby encourage you to score higher on the USMLE thereby making entry into the AOA easier.
There is no reason to go to a lower ranked school unless you:
#1. Can't afford a higher ranked school
#2. Can't qualify for a higher ranked school
#3. Have reached the point in your life when you no longer want to compete
There is nothing wrong with, after having worked very hard to score in the top of your class for all of the pre-medical curriculum and to score well on the MCAT, to desire to "take a break" for awhile and begin to enjoy your life. But to desire to go to a low ranked school because you think it will be easier to get high grades is flawed logic. Few patients will care where you did your medical school training, and no patient will ever ask you if you were in the honor society. Since the end goal of our career is to provide the best patient care possible, I feel it is important to view things from the patient's perspective.
There is no reason to go to a lower ranked school unless you:
#1. Can't afford a higher ranked school
#2. Can't qualify for a higher ranked school
#3. Have reached the point in your life when you no longer want to compete
There is nothing wrong with, after having worked very hard to score in the top of your class for all of the pre-medical curriculum and to score well on the MCAT, to desire to "take a break" for awhile and begin to enjoy your life. But to desire to go to a low ranked school because you think it will be easier to get high grades is flawed logic. Few patients will care where you did your medical school training, and no patient will ever ask you if you were in the honor society. Since the end goal of our career is to provide the best patient care possible, I feel it is important to view things from the patient's perspective.
Just read on the aoa page that the med school selects a percentage of those students in the top quartile to be admitted. If the caliber of students is higher wouldn't it be harder to be in this top quartile than if you went to a top tier school. I'm sure being in the aoa doesn't matter for most specialties but if you want a competitive specialty it seems like you'd need to be a member of aoa.
I'm afraid that it may not matter what the rank of your med school is just like it was in college. For example, people are telling you to go to the highest rank school you get into because it does matter to grad schools, but then some people go and don't do as well as if they went to a less competitive school. For example I know people that went to Hopkins and some have low 3ish GPA and then people at no name schools who have 4.0s and end up at more prestigious grad schools. Med schools don't give people who go to higher ranked schools a break and it's probably the same for residency. All that matters will be whether you were in the AOA and how you did on the USMLE. I'm sure for the USMLE it's more a self study thing like the MCAT. It doesn't matter where you went to school because you study using a prep company. And grades and ranking will be relative based on who you are competing against, so it seems you'd have a better chance of being at the top of a lower caliber school.
I'm afraid that it may not matter what the rank of your med school is just like it was in college. For example, people are telling you to go to the highest rank school you get into because it does matter to grad schools, but then some people go and don't do as well as if they went to a less competitive school. For example I know people that went to Hopkins and some have low 3ish GPA and then people at no name schools who have 4.0s and end up at more prestigious grad schools. Med schools don't give people who go to higher ranked schools a break and it's probably the same for residency. All that matters will be whether you were in the AOA and how you did on the USMLE. I'm sure for the USMLE it's more a self study thing like the MCAT. It doesn't matter where you went to school because you study using a prep company. And grades and ranking will be relative based on who you are competing against, so it seems you'd have a better chance of being at the top of a lower caliber school.
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