2015-2016 University of Pennsylvania (Perelman) Application Thread

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meme12 said:
Yeah I'm dying to know who matched where
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I mean, I'm sure it's phenomenal if the match list skip showed us from last year was any indication. Honestly though, and this is just me personally, I don't get what the point of reading into the match list at a top 5 school is. As long as you perform well you have a ton of doors open, but if you perform s hitty, you'll match s hitty.
 
It's a shame financial aid info doesn't come out until after Penn Preview. You kind of have to go to other schools' revisits in case Penn doesn't work out financially. Anyone know if it's it just a time issue, or if there's some logical reason for them to wait?
 
NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
2017 med school rankings came out and Penn is sitting at #3 tied with Hopkins and UCSF. Does anyone know what the ranking was last year or the year before?
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Yup, last year Hopkins/UCSF were tied for 3rd, so Penn was technically 5th. This year, Penn moved up and is now in a three way tie. TBH..no big change. Has anything materially changed about the value of a Penn education, the reputation of the school or your opportunities post graduation as a result of this change? Almost certainly not.

TheRhymenocerous said:
It's a shame financial aid info doesn't come out until after Penn Preview. You kind of have to go to other schools' revisits in case Penn doesn't work out financially. Anyone know if it's it just a time issue, or if there's some logical reason for them to wait?
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It's kind of a logistical issue. Penn preview is being held a bit earlier this year, which means financial aid determinations aren't quite done. Penn is in general very generous (and somewhat open to negotiation, which can't be said for all schools...), so it shouldn't be a big deal.
 
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As a first year interested in internal medicine, I geek out over the matches every year. Huge congrats to the MS4s, they killed it with an insane match:

HUP (x4)
MGH (x3)
Brigham (x3)
UCSF (x2)
UPMC (x2)
Duke
Hopkins
NYP-Columbia
OHSU
Colorado
UTSW
Univ. Chicago
Vandy
Yale
 
darkjedi said:
If anyone is curious this is our match list for 2016:
http://www.med.upenn.edu/student/Match2016.shtml
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7a7f9f404043a317180f6a7067005ed8.jpg


good lord...
 
Does anybody know when the regular MD-only and MSTPs take step 1 + how much study time allotted?
 
SurgeonOfLife said:
Does anybody know when the regular MD-only and MSTPs take step 1 + how much study time allotted?
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I believe someone mentioned it was 6 weeks and they took them at the end of second year after some of the shelf exams. I also recall skip saying that Penn has the highest average STEP averages in the country. Correct me if I am wrong, though.
 
Yeah that's what I remember too. It was after two rotations, and usually people do internal med and OBGYN-peds (that's what I was told at the diversity breakfast). I'm looking at the packet/info they gave us during interview right now and each block is 12 weeks, meaning a total of ~6 months. So I guess we take step 1 near the end of summer?

I was under the impression that regular MD take it during 3rd year (after all of Mod 4), but I forgot where I got that info from.

And yeah, I've heard multiple times, even at other schools, that Penn has the highest avg. Mostly attributed to the internal med shelf really prepares you for step 1.
 
I remember at my interview day people were speculating that the high Step 1 scores may be due to the non Pass/Fail curriculum and that is why they are maybe reluctant to change it. What are you guys' thoughts?
 
gt93 said:
I remember at my interview day people were speculating that the high Step 1 scores may be due to the non Pass/Fail curriculum and that is why they are maybe reluctant to change it. What are you guys' thoughts?
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Re: STEP. I'm sure the averages fluctuate year by year, with Penn, Baylor and company all having some really insane averages. It's tough to say exactly what contributes to Penn having the highest average (or among the highest). Probably a combo of a great curriculum, the benefit of going through clerkships before STEP 1....and selection bias. Penn tends to matriculate people with very good test taking skills (see MCAT average). So take inherently good test takers and put them through a good curriculum and the output is a strong performance on USMLE. I have no real thoughts on P/F. It isn't really influencing how I study or my daily life. Perhaps it has an effect, although I'd guess it is minor.


SurgeonOfLife said:
Yeah that's what I remember too. It was after two rotations, and usually people do internal med and OBGYN-peds (that's what I was told at the diversity breakfast). I'm looking at the packet/info they gave us during interview right now and each block is 12 weeks, meaning a total of ~6 months. So I guess we take step 1 near the end of summer?

I was under the impression that regular MD take it during 3rd year (after all of Mod 4), but I forgot where I got that info from.

And yeah, I've heard multiple times, even at other schools, that Penn has the highest avg. Mostly attributed to the internal med shelf really prepares you for step 1.
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Most people take 6 weeks, although I've heard of some 3rd years taking 7 (or perhaps slightly more) time. My impression is that the final 1.5 years is rather flexible, and you can decide how you want to allocate that time between sub-internships, aways, STEP 1&2, residency interviews and relaxation.
 
gt93 said:
I remember at my interview day people were speculating that the high Step 1 scores may be due to the non Pass/Fail curriculum and that is why they are maybe reluctant to change it. What are you guys' thoughts?
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I definitely disagree with that cause and effect. I think it's just an excuse by the administration to justify the policy. Penn students would do well on Step 1 no matter what curriculum you had.

The (likely) biggest factor is that Penn has the highest (tied with WashU I believe) MCAT average at around 38/45. This is higher than those at Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford/UCSF/etc.

So Penn has students who have a proven track record of being better on standardized tests. And perhaps the best predictor of performance on a standardized test like Step 1 is high performance on the MCAT (another standardized test).
 
They just changed the MCAT because multiple studies showed that you could score between a 24-39 on the MCAT with no predictability to STEP scores.

Medicine is first a science which is backed via facts, you should not start out your career with outlandish claims.
 
AlphaEta251 said:
They just changed the MCAT because multiple studies showed that you could score between a 24-39 on the MCAT with no predictability to STEP scores.

Medicine is first a science which is backed via facts, you should not start out your career with outlandish claims.
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Wasn't there a statistic somewhere that the BS/PS sections correlated with Step 1 scores and VR correlated with step 2? Maybe I'm just making this up entirely but I could have sworn there was.
 
^Do you have a source for that? Data I find shows at least some correlation between MCAT and Step 1.

Donnon et al., Academic Medicine 2007. http://www.internationalgme.org/Resources/Pubs/Donnon et al (2007) Acad Med.pdf
Saguil et al., Military Medicine 2015. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25850120

No single variable will completely account for board performance, but to me it sounds like MCAT should be at least partially predictive of performance, in addition to pre-Step 1 course performance + some metric measuring Step 1 study methods + undergrad GPA.
 
AlphaEta251 said:
They just changed the MCAT because multiple studies showed that you could score between a 24-39 on the MCAT with no predictability to STEP scores.

Medicine is first a science which is backed via facts, you should not start out your career with outlandish claims.
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Oh so it's so "outlandish" to think that someone scoring a 39 is more likely to do better on Step 1 than someone scoring a 24? In other words, since you think there is "no predictability," you believe someone scoring a 24 on the MCAT is equally likely to pass the Step 1 as that of someone scoring 39. If that were really the case, then there would be no point in taking the MCAT to being with...

Btw, here are multiple studies showing that, indeed, there is a statistically significant correlation between MCAT and Step 1 performance.

http://www.internationalgme.org/Resources/Pubs/Donnon et al (2007) Acad Med.pdf

It might not be a strong correlation (it's cited as a "small to medium" correlation in that meta-analysis*), but it is statistically significant. So no, I don't find my claim outlandish. Doing well on MCAT is associated with doing well on Step 1.

*To be precise, the predictive validity coefficient for the MCAT predicting Step 1 is r=.6. That's not low.
 
justadream said:
Oh so it's so "outlandish" to think that someone scoring a 39 is more likely to do better on Step 1 than someone scoring a 24? In other words, since you think there is "no predictability," you believe someone scoring a 24 on the MCAT is equally likely to pass the Step 1 as that of someone scoring 39. If that were really the case, then there would be no point in taking the MCAT to being with...

Btw, here are multiple studies showing that, indeed, there is a statistically significant correlation between MCAT and Step 1 performance.

http://www.internationalgme.org/Resources/Pubs/Donnon et al (2007) Acad Med.pdf

It might not be a strong correlation (it's cited as a "small to medium" correlation in that meta-analysis*), but it is statistically significant. So no, I don't find my claim outlandish. Doing well on MCAT is associated with doing well on Step 1.

*To be precise, the predictive validity coefficient for the MCAT predicting Step 1 is r=.6. That's not low.
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Hahaha more power to you!!!

And I totally agree-your claim is not "outlandish" in the least!
 
So for second look is there an option to stay at a hotel or is it pretty much 100% that we have to stay with student hosts? As much as I'd love to get to know future classmates, I'd prefer the freedom of being able to walk around with no pants on elbow deep in a jar of Nutella at 1am.
 
NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
So for second look is there an option to stay at a hotel or is it pretty much 100% that we have to stay with student hosts? As much as I'd love to get to know future classmates, I'd prefer the freedom of being able to walk around with no pants on elbow deep in a jar of Nutella at 1am.
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Yep looks like it's just student hosts this time.
 
NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
So for second look is there an option to stay at a hotel or is it pretty much 100% that we have to stay with student hosts? As much as I'd love to get to know future classmates, I'd prefer the freedom of being able to walk around with no pants on elbow deep in a jar of Nutella at 1am.
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So just to be perfectly clear, pretty much everything about Penn preview is optional and you can decide what you want to do. If you prefer staying in a hotel, that is totally cool! I'm just not sure that Penn would be involved in organizing that for you, you'd have to do the booking and logistics yourself.

Also quick plug for an event on Friday, which will involve a kind of "Choose your Own Adventure" which will very closely simulate how our small groups work. It was designed just for preview by one of our faculty who will facilitate in one of the rooms. Oh...and that same faculty discovered CXCR4 as the target for HIV entry. NBD.
 
Anyone know how financial aid at Penn works? Is it a unit loan of about 30k and then expected family contribution like a bunch of other schools?
 
So should we bring a suit to penn preview for faculty meetings?

Edit: for MSTP faculty meetings
 
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peeplechase said:
Anyone know how financial aid at Penn works? Is it a unit loan of about 30k and then expected family contribution like a bunch of other schools?
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So I don't know exactly how they calculate it, but for me, I had zero expected family contribution and they gave me almost a full tuition scholarship (and loans to cover everything else). In my experience, the aid here is seriously some of the best in the country and totally blew away anything that other top 10 schools offered me. That'll vary for each person, but I would expect that you'll all get very competitive packages.

NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
So should we bring a suit to penn preview for faculty meetings?

Edit: for MSTP faculty meetings
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I just asked an mstp friend and he said no. I didn't see anyone wearing a suit at anytime last year either.
 
peeplechase said:
Anyone know how financial aid at Penn works? Is it a unit loan of about 30k and then expected family contribution like a bunch of other schools?
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I believe that you're basically right. There are a few other considerations. For instance, Penn has some no-interest institutional loans, as well as other special loans that can be part of the package. I'll second what @jibblesNbits said. Penn gives out 35 full-tuition and fees merit scholarships, and numerous partial merit scholarships on top of all the need based aid.

Given that scheduling issues precludes merit based aid info being released before/during preview, ya'll should not feel shy about talking to the admissions staff. I've been told personally by the director of admissions that she wants people to discuss questions and concerns regarding financial aid at Preview. Looking forward to seeing you all next week!
 
texasvandy said:
You are already IN.

@QuantumFlame - They don't mention partial scholarships anywhere. Do you know how many and what size?
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True...... I think I'm not going to shave again until I'm interviewing for residency.

From what I recall I thought they had around like 25 tuitions worth of scholarships distributed between full and partial scholarships.
 
35 full tuition. Although these 35 can be broken up into any combination of partials i.e 70 people can receive half-tuition scholarships if FA office sees fit to do this.
 
Twenty-First Century Scholars Program
The Perelman School of Medicine also has scholarship programs recognizing student excellence. There are approximately 30 full tuition scholarships awarded annually. All students accepted into the Perelman School of Medicine are considered for this program. Selection criteria include: outstanding academic performance and achievement, a broad range of intellectual interests, demonstrated leadership, commitment to interests other than academic work, and unique life experiences that may contribute to a medical career.
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Nvm ~30 scholarships as per website
http://www.med.upenn.edu/admissions/financial-aid.html]
 
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To answer a couple of questions in this thread.
SurgeonOfLife said:
Does anybody know when the regular MD-only and MSTPs take step 1 + how much study time allotted?
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MSTPs take their Step 1 after 6-months of clinicals, which is the end of their MS2/beginning of their PhD years. MD's take it after a full year of clinical, which is usually around Jan-Mar of their 3rd year. There is no set schedule, but the administration wants you to take it before May, so you can take it at any time before then and schedule yourself as much time as you need. I personally took 6 weeks, though I know people who took it in 5 and those who took like 12 weeks because they wanted to push it off.

gt93 said:
I remember at my interview day people were speculating that the high Step 1 scores may be due to the non Pass/Fail curriculum and that is why they are maybe reluctant to change it. What are you guys' thoughts?
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In my opinion, it's because we take it after a whole year of clinicals. We are required to take NBME shelf exams for each clinical rotation, which I think gives us good practice for Step 1. All the hands-on learning you do on the clinics is really invaluable in providing a very strong framework in which to study for Step 1.

NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
So for second look is there an option to stay at a hotel or is it pretty much 100% that we have to stay with student hosts? As much as I'd love to get to know future classmates, I'd prefer the freedom of being able to walk around with no pants on elbow deep in a jar of Nutella at 1am.
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You are free to do entirely as you wish. Many of you guys are in a lucky spot, in which now the tables are turned and the schools are trying to beg you to come. Everything about Penn Preview is about selling the school to you guys.

peeplechase said:
Anyone know how financial aid at Penn works? Is it a unit loan of about 30k and then expected family contribution like a bunch of other schools?
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As others have mentioned, Penn specifically sets aside 35 full tuition merit based scholarships. This does not include a ton of partial merit-based scholarships or the very generous need-based scholarships available as well. While I don't know specifically the amount of number of the partial scholarships, I imagine many of you will be happy with your packages.

I'm excited for you all to come see our school next week! Penn Preview is a ton of fun and a great way to meet a bunch of potential future classmates as well.
 
For hose of u lucky enough to be at Penn Preview, how's it going????
 
NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
When will merit/financial aid awards for MD applicants?



Preview was amazing and all of the current students/prospective students were chill AF
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My understanding is that final determinations for MD financial aid will be made on the 18th, with announcements going out that day or shortly thereafter.

Glad you had a good time at Preview! It was a ton of fun to put on.
 
NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
I also recall skip saying that Penn has the highest average STEP averages in the country. Correct me if I am wrong, though.
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AlphaEta251 said:
They just changed the MCAT because multiple studies showed that you could score between a 24-39 on the MCAT with no predictability to STEP scores.

Medicine is first a science which is backed via facts, you should not start out your career with outlandish claims.
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Correction: see data from USNWR reproduced at http://bit.ly/1VwvufX and http://bit.ly/1TbtW7g
 
NeverStressedAlwaysHappy said:
That is very unfortunate to hear, but it has nothing to do with the medical school
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Yes, fair point: thankfully although some graduate students have been among these stats - even someone in the school of education - in the past few years, this hasn't spilled over to the med school. I got the general sense that the med school is pretty collaborative and supportive and that students generally didn't feel extremely stressed (except perhaps during mod 2?). At any rate, i'm sure that Penn provides enormous support and resources to enable optimal performance, and that they generally care, holistically, about students. But yes, back to your point: not directly relevant to the med school, but arguably, probably, peripherally related, as it's one contiguous campus and folks can take courses from any of the other schools.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...king-TENTH-Penn-suicide-just-three-years.html
 
esabs15 said:
Yes, fair point: thankfully although some graduate students have been among these stats - even someone in the school of education - in the past few years, this hasn't spilled over to the med school. I got the general sense that the med school is pretty collaborative and supportive and that students generally didn't feel extremely stressed (except perhaps during mod 2?). At any rate, i'm sure that Penn provides enormous support and resources to enable optimal performance, and that they generally care, holistically, about students. But yes, back to your point: not directly relevant to the med school, but arguably, probably, peripherally related, as it's one contiguous campus and folks can take courses from any of the other schools.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...king-TENTH-Penn-suicide-just-three-years.html
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This is a super tragic story, as are all cases of suicide. All our hearts go out to the family and friends of this Penn undergrad. Just to respond to some of the points above:

1) I'm currently in mod 2...and I don't feel extremely stressed. Actually, I know most of my classmates, and not one that I've talked to is "extremely stressed". Honestly, perhaps the most stress is during the clinical year.

2) No med school is perfect, but Penn (I can really only speak on the med school side) is making an effort. For example, current med students are working with the administration to improve access to CAPS (counseling, therapy and other mental health services), by having extended hours for med students, in locations more convenient to those in clerkship year etc. Obviously a work in progress, but it's nice to be in a school that takes this stuff seriously and acts on it.

Again, if any of you have questions about Penn I'd be happy to share my thoughts, either on the thread or over PM.
 
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