Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine (CUSOM) Discussion Thread 2016-2017

[theLaxEagle]

Does anyone know if the school helps with trying to find a roommate?

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[DrDawg399]

Has anyone heard back from Jan 31st interviews??


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[MADD!!!]

Correct on the Transitional Year. The match was to both that and to the linked derm residency. It is on the AOA opportunities site though if you check there

Wow I see now!! This is basically an ACGME Derm match, but because the program applied for Osteopathic recognition they were able to recruit students through the AOA match as well. Wow, this is definitely one of the most amazing DO matches ever!!!!!!

 

[statlin98]

Any recommendations on hotel/lodging for the interview?

 

[DrDawg399]

Any recommendations on hotel/lodging for the interview?

There's a microtel that's like a mile and some change from the building. Not bad pricing at all as well they also have a complimentary breakfast and plenty of coffee to keep you focused for interview day.


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[Theo111]

Has anyone heard back from Jan 31st interviews??


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I interviewed on the 1/30th and haven't heard anything yet.

 

[DrDawg399]

I interviewed on the 1/30th and haven't heard anything yet.

From previous posts in this thread, it seems like they come out today or tomorrow with decisions.... kinda nerve-racking


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[Theo111]

From previous posts in this thread, it seems like they come out today or tomorrow with decisions.... kinda nerve-racking


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Right!, we were told that we should know something by Friday as the latest!, otherwise, to let her know ON Friday so she could give us an update.....

 

[DrDawg399]

Right!, we were told that we should know something by Friday as the latest!, otherwise, to let her know ON Friday so she could give us an update.....

lol it's ridiculous.... how long do we wait on Friday before we call?! Just tell us already lol they already know the ad com's decision anyway


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[Theo111]

lol it's ridiculous.... how long do we wait on Friday before we call?! Just tell us already lol they already know the ad com's decision anyway


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yup, the ad com's meets every Wednesday, a day after that weeks interviews, so they should know by now. I guess that a waitlist offer might be a different story.

 

[DO_94]

I'm really impressed with Campbell's matches so far, including their military matches. I can't wait to see the ACGME matches in March!

 

[MADD!!!]

I'm really impressed with Campbell's matches so far, including their military matches. I can't wait to see the ACGME matches in March!

The Derm match is fire!!!

 

[DrDawg399]

Still no word from those interviewed 1/30 and 1/31? I've been waiting all day!!


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[DrDawg399]

Spoke too soon! Got the waitlist email just now I'm taking it as a minor victory as I've been told this is essentially a "postponed acceptance." First of the season, and hope to hear better news soon. So I'm gonna go buy myself a steak tonight in celebration!


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[mattdock]

Spoke too soon! Got the waitlist email just now I'm taking it as a minor victory as I've been told this is essentially a "postponed acceptance." First of the season, and hope to hear better news soon. So I'm gonna go buy myself a steak tonight in celebration!


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me too interviewed 1/30

 

[DrDawg399]

me too interviewed 1/30

Congrats


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[TeaDog]

Spoke too soon! Got the waitlist email just now I'm taking it as a minor victory as I've been told this is essentially a "postponed acceptance." First of the season, and hope to hear better news soon. So I'm gonna go buy myself a steak tonight in celebration!


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Congrats! I also got waitlisted. Interviewed 1/30 and really loved the school and even the location.

 

[DrDawg399]

Congrats! I also got waitlisted. Interviewed 1/30 and really loved the school and even the location.

Congrats to you too! Now we play the waiting game with this ever-changing waitlist


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[arlensmacdaddy]

Got an II on 2/08 and scheduled for 2/21. The lady said I'm interviewing for a WL spot. Flight was expensive at short notice but I reallyyyyy want to go here and no other acceptances means I'm going. I'm not sure how good my chances are but I'm gonna take every chance yet. Just nervous cuz this is going to be my first interview this whole cycle...

 

[DrDawg399]

Got an II on 2/08 and scheduled for 2/21. The lady said I'm interviewing for a WL spot. Flight was expensive at short notice but I reallyyyyy want to go here and no other acceptances means I'm going. I'm not sure how good my chances are but I'm gonna take every chance yet. Just nervous cuz this is going to be my first interview this whole cycle...

It's a very relaxed interview day. If you make the WL, you're basically getting a "postponed acceptance," so it's just a waiting game. The interviewers are all easy to talk to, and make the process much less stressful. Just have fun with the day and it'll come naturally!


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[lucpremed99]

Does anyone know my chances if I was waitlisted 1/25? I know they said that the waitlist is in order of when you interviewed, but I'm still nervous because this is my top choice school.

 

[DrDawg399]

Does anyone know my chances if I was waitlisted 1/25? I know they said that the waitlist is in order of when you interviewed, but I'm still nervous because this is my top choice school.

Chances are good. I recall reading a post on here from a few months ago about current students who interviewed/got waitlisted in April of last year. Fortunately all of those folks ended up matriculating. It's just a test of your patience at this point. Thankfully, every two weeks, there will be a group of WL people moved off the WL since the deposit is now due 2 weeks after acceptance. Just hang in there!


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[lucpremed99]

Chances are good. I recall reading a post on here from a few months ago about current students who interviewed/got waitlisted in April of last year. Fortunately all of those folks ended up matriculating. It's just a test of your patience at this point. Thankfully, every two weeks, there will be a group of WL people moved off the WL since the deposit is now due 2 weeks after acceptance. Just hang in there!


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Okay thanks!

 

[DrDawg399]

Does anyone know how the school's insurance policy operates for dependents? I will be married by MS2, and want to know if my future wife will be covered on a policy I purchase through Campbell. Thanks in advance!


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[Rishikish]

Hearing about the ortho and derm matches in the AOA match and military match into really good programs like Case Western and Walter Reed really make me glad I chose CUSOM.

Getting students to match into competitive specialties as a new school ensures me Campbell has a great curriculum to ensure students are able to match into the specialty of their choice.

Even though I plan to go into PC, glad there are other great options as well for hard-working students.

Can't wait what the class of 2021 matches into!

 

[statlin98]

Interview in the next few days, any last minute advice?

 

[mattdock]

Interview in the next few days, any last minute advice?

See the post of "Doctorpassion" on page 8. In addition, review your application entries.

 

[theLaxEagle]

Interview in the next few days, any last minute advice?

You can also look at the interview feedback section on SDN. I have used it for all my interviews and helps prepare you for possible interview questions.

 

[TeaDog]

Interview in the next few days, any last minute advice?

You will be asked why you applied there (to CUSOM) specifically so I recommend checking out their website and see how that jibes with your own values and/or goals and/or future medical practice. I think this is something you definitely want to address especially given that they are interviewing for wait list spot. The rest of the interview is focused on you and how you got where you are today so know your "story", "heroe's journey" etc. I drove there a few days before my interview to check our Raleigh and was very positively impressed with the area overall, I think if you have a day to look around the area (Raleigh, Holly springs, Buies Creek) that would be ideal.

 

[lucpremed99]

Has anyone on here been accepted off of the WL from early January or December interviews?

 

[xmzgoms2x]

Has anyone on here been accepted off of the WL from early January or December interviews?

Hey! I heard from Stephanie from admissions today that the next two deadlines for deposits are 2/16 and 2/22. Hopefully this will create some spots for us on waitlist. I interviewed on 1/30 and made the waitlist.

 

[DaddyNoBeard]

I have an interview for the waitlist 2/20, hopefully all goes well, it's my first interview!

 

[IWannaGoFast]

Hey! I heard from Stephanie from admissions today that the next two deadlines for deposits are 2/16 and 2/22. Hopefully this will create some spots for us on waitlist. I interviewed on 1/30 and made the waitlist.

So do we think people are getting accepted from II currently even though we're told interviews are for WL only or are these people coming off the WL?

 

[DrDawg399]

So do we think people are getting accepted from II currently even though we're told interviews are for WL only or are these people coming off the WL?

Definitely coming from the WL. The people interviewing as of now are all being put on the WL, while some people on the WL are being moved off after these deadlines are passed.


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[DocMcSporty]

As an attending at one of the regional hospitals affiliated with Campbell my best advice would be this: if you have no other options in the US then attend Campbell. However, if you have other options you should avoid Campbell as much as possible. My experience with students has been great and rewarding. However, Campbell administration makes it difficult for them to receive adequate training during their clinical years. I have raised concerns and solutions several times to Campbell deans without any resolutions. My concerns are listed below. I have no doubt that most of the students I encountered the last two years will go on to be excellent physicians, but Campbell has made it unnecessarily more difficult for them. Feel free to ask me questions.

1. Arbitrary time consuming requirements during 3 year rotations taking away from patient care time.
2. Inadequate rotation availibilty. One of the five clinical sites essentially has no OB rotation for men. Women have an excellent experience at this site however. Another site is on the verge of losing the entire hospitalist group for internal medicine teaching.
3. ZERO communication with attendings about expectations/student evaluations/future plans/thank yous. We are not reimbursed by Campbell for taking 4 hours a day to teach students. Docs are not required to accept students. The ones that do get treated like crap. Some of my peers that are excellent teachers have stopped taking students just because of the way Campbell treats us. I can see this becoming a domino effect shortly.
4. Campbell will promote all the residencies they have "created" however, in my opinion, many of these spots will go away by 2020. The associate dean responsible for the accreditation process keeps dragging their feet.
5. During interview season Campbell allows fourth year students no more than four days per month to attend residency interviews (For you pre-meds you need at least 2 days to interview+travel if on the same coast. 3 days minimum if traveling far). That's absolutely ridiculous and unheard of. Students have to lie to attendings and/or administration so that they could attend more than 1 interview per month.
6. I have heard from students that during board prep time they essentially steal away 3 days per week for four weeks from you for a "prep course" that is rather inadequate. I don't have specifics so perhaps current students on this forum can address this better than me.
7. Most importantly they are extremely authoritarian and refuse to seek or address student complaints. Which is extremely troubling given that this is a new school and inevitably there will be mistakes and aspects of training will be overlooked. Sure some student complaints derive from a lack of understanding of the medical training process. But many of the complaints are legitimate and deserve attention. Campbell must at a minimum consider complaints and proposed resolutions. Instead they simply say "stop whining." I have tried to bring this up on behalf of students and was lied to my face about the environment at Campbell. The typical answer is "we are actively looking into that." 12 months later, nothing.

 

[Rishikish]

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[Goro femme]

As an attending at one of the regional hospitals affiliated with Campbell my best advice would be this: if you have no other options in the US then attend Campbell. However, if you have other options you should avoid Campbell as much as possible. My experience with students has been great and rewarding. However, Campbell administration makes it difficult for them to receive adequate training during their clinical years. I have raised concerns and solutions several times to Campbell deans without any resolutions. My concerns are listed below. I have no doubt that most of the students I encountered the last two years will go on to be excellent physicians, but Campbell has made it unnecessarily more difficult for them. Feel free to ask me questions.

1. Arbitrary time consuming requirements during 3 year rotations taking away from patient care time.
2. Inadequate rotation availibilty. One of the five clinical sites essentially has no OB rotation for men. Women have an excellent experience at this site however. Another site is on the verge of losing the entire hospitalist group for internal medicine teaching.
3. ZERO communication with attendings about expectations/student evaluations/future plans/thank yous. We are not reimbursed by Campbell for taking 4 hours a day to teach students. Docs are not required to accept students. The ones that do get treated like crap. Some of my peers that are excellent teachers have stopped taking students just because of the way Campbell treats us. I can see this becoming a domino effect shortly.
4. Campbell will promote all the residencies they have "created" however, in my opinion, many of these spots will go away by 2020. The associate dean responsible for the accreditation process keeps dragging their feet.
5. During interview season Campbell allows fourth year students no more than four days per month to attend residency interviews (For you pre-meds you need at least 2 days to interview+travel if on the same coast. 3 days minimum if traveling far). That's absolutely ridiculous and unheard of. Students have to lie to attendings and/or administration so that they could attend more than 1 interview per month.
6. I have heard from students that during board prep time they essentially steal away 3 days per week for four weeks from you for a "prep course" that is rather inadequate. I don't have specifics so perhaps current students on this forum can address this better than me.
7. Most importantly they are extremely authoritarian and refuse to seek or address student complaints. Which is extremely troubling given that this is a new school and inevitably there will be mistakes and aspects of training will be overlooked. Sure some student complaints derive from a lack of understanding of the medical training process. But many of the complaints are legitimate and deserve attention. Campbell must at a minimum consider complaints and proposed resolutions. Instead they simply say "stop whining." I have tried to bring this up on behalf of students and was lied to my face about the environment at Campbell. The typical answer is "we are actively looking into that." 12 months later, nothing.

As another physician who interacts with medical students daily, I can tell that you are quite frustrated with the clinical experience that CUSOM students are currently receiving. If there had been another forum with which to provide this feedback to administration, I am going to assume that you would have used it (based on point 3). Out of concern for current and future students at CUSOM, it would be helpful if you could provide a little additional information.
1. Are you familiar with the accrediting body (COCA) standards for the clinical years? They increasingly continue to require and assess outcomes. This would mean examinations in the third year, OSCE's, and board preparation material requiring some time away from rotations. In addition, osteopathic integration standards require more offerings in the clinical years for their students.
2. There is generally some flux in rotation sites, especially in the newer years of a school. There may be new partnerships being formed that are not yet public. Is this a complaint of current students in clinical years or adjunct faculty, or both? Student representation usually continues into the clinical years and is usually best received by administration through this representation. (It reduces the perceived "whining" mentioned in #7, and those student reps can follow-up on a recurrent basis).
3. AOA residency positions that will continue past 2020 (four years and longer programs) were already pulled from this year's match. That means that these newer residencies will require ACGME applications as the length of their program requires. Therefore, Campbell is likely in the process of these applications so that they continue beyond the merger. Dragging feet will be revealed at next year's match. Unless you have any additional information?
4. Ultimate responsibility for attendance at rotations usually lies with preceptors. If students are clearing an absence for interviews with preceptors, there should not be any problems with their status at the school. What better lie are they coming up with that beats a residency interview?
5. Are you participating in the "course prep" mentioned in point 6? If not, I would like to reserve judgement on this point until we hear from those who may be.
Again, thank you for voicing your concerns, and, hopefully, Campbell will improve its feedback process so that valuable faculty don't feel so discouraged that the only way they are heard is on a public forum. In terms of compensation, that really is best left to other avenues. I am eager to hear your responses and those of the students although I have no professional ties to this school. I do believe it is a newer D.O. School that has a lot of promise despite the need for some improvements now.

 

[Mosonik]

As an attending at one of the regional hospitals affiliated with Campbell my best advice would be this: if you have no other options in the US then attend Campbell. However, if you have other options you should avoid Campbell as much as possible. My experience with students has been great and rewarding. However, Campbell administration makes it difficult for them to receive adequate training during their clinical years. I have raised concerns and solutions several times to Campbell deans without any resolutions. My concerns are listed below. I have no doubt that most of the students I encountered the last two years will go on to be excellent physicians, but Campbell has made it unnecessarily more difficult for them. Feel free to ask me questions.

1. Arbitrary time consuming requirements during 3 year rotations taking away from patient care time.
2. Inadequate rotation availibilty. One of the five clinical sites essentially has no OB rotation for men. Women have an excellent experience at this site however. Another site is on the verge of losing the entire hospitalist group for internal medicine teaching.
3. ZERO communication with attendings about expectations/student evaluations/future plans/thank yous. We are not reimbursed by Campbell for taking 4 hours a day to teach students. Docs are not required to accept students. The ones that do get treated like crap. Some of my peers that are excellent teachers have stopped taking students just because of the way Campbell treats us. I can see this becoming a domino effect shortly.
4. Campbell will promote all the residencies they have "created" however, in my opinion, many of these spots will go away by 2020. The associate dean responsible for the accreditation process keeps dragging their feet.
5. During interview season Campbell allows fourth year students no more than four days per month to attend residency interviews (For you pre-meds you need at least 2 days to interview+travel if on the same coast. 3 days minimum if traveling far). That's absolutely ridiculous and unheard of. Students have to lie to attendings and/or administration so that they could attend more than 1 interview per month.
6. I have heard from students that during board prep time they essentially steal away 3 days per week for four weeks from you for a "prep course" that is rather inadequate. I don't have specifics so perhaps current students on this forum can address this better than me.
7. Most importantly they are extremely authoritarian and refuse to seek or address student complaints. Which is extremely troubling given that this is a new school and inevitably there will be mistakes and aspects of training will be overlooked. Sure some student complaints derive from a lack of understanding of the medical training process. But many of the complaints are legitimate and deserve attention. Campbell must at a minimum consider complaints and proposed resolutions. Instead they simply say "stop whining." I have tried to bring this up on behalf of students and was lied to my face about the environment at Campbell. The typical answer is "we are actively looking into that." 12 months later, nothing.

As a fourth year (who is familiar with this particular site) I'd like to also respond in part to these comments. The way this doctor felt treated by Campbell is sad and I won't try to justify that but I think there is a lot going on here besides simply bad administration.
This particular hospital I know has had a lot of turmoil since growing into a primary community teaching hospital for CUSOM and it still seems to be experiencing tension in that. There has also been a transition of Regional Deans a few months into this process last year which didn't help anything, as he left to start a new school.

I haven't always agree with Campbell's administrative decisions but I've never felt they neglected our education or didn't listen. In fact, they have been far more interested in our feedback through a nauseating amount of surveys and questionaires. I would say, with having friends at other "top" schools like UNC, our hiccups are more quickly responded to then theirs does because we lack large bureaucratic institutions and hospitals.

I think the biggest challenge is the dynamic for creating new rotations that occurs between hospital admin, community doctors and CUSOM admin who are still figuring out a system of handling problems. The OB rotation is in part the problem of OB services of private practices and the lack of providers in the area. I'm not sure what the situation regarding why its a gender division right now but I will just say, this is one example of the growing pains of our school establishing state wide rotations. This happens for my friends at Duke, UNC, and ECU too who do rotations in community hospitals so I'm not sure why this is being blown up so significantly.

All this to say, I think medical school has proven to be largely a process of personal initiative and once there, the more you can make of whatever situation you are in, the better you will be. I think you'll find with our board scores/pass rates and matches, there is not as big of a situation as appears here. All that to say, I do hope some of the above will be addressed sooner than later.

 

[DocMcSporty]

(I am obviously new to posting on this forum. Sorry the formatting of the post is awkward, my responses to previous posts are in BOLD)

I'll be attending CUSOM so I do have some questions.


2. Seems 4/5 do have OB rotations, but 1 does not. I'm sure CUSOM makes sure all students have OB/GYN rotations since we have to take the shelf exam on it. Maybe CUSOM doesn't see the need for so many rotations for OB/GYN if they already have four more? Any male M3s (or any M3s for that matter) feel shafted on their OB/GYN rotations or any other rotations? Just one site has this OB/GYN issue. OB is core rotation everybody must participate in. Going from site to site is typically not a feasible option. Studying for shelf is independent of clinical experience. Yes, males get shafted on this rotation. When asked to do OB/GYN at a different site or set something up on their own they were denied.

3. Seems CUSOM faculty have poor communication with your rotation site. Do you know is this happens to other affiliated hospitals? Seems like this poor relationship can damage the rotation sites for future students. I can only comment about attendings/residents I have spoken to. In general, the relationship is poor.

4. I was looking at the residency spots CUSOM has on their website. Most links do say "pre-accreditation" or "process of applying" for ACGME accreditation (although the Sampson links don't work). Is this what you're referring to? (http://ww2.campbell.edu/cusom/academics/gme-program/residency-programs/) Go to ACGME website to track accreditation process. "Pre accreditation" means they placed an application. "Process of applying" means nothing. I would go to the ACGME site for clarity. http://www.acgme.org/What-We-Do/Accreditation/Single-GME-Accreditation-System

Also search the AOA opportunities site for Campbell programs to check on their status.

6. I think you may be referring to this which I found on the Academic Bulletin,
"Students will be provided a course of study within Block 8 which serves as capstone to the first two years of
the curriculum, and also should assist in final preparation for national licensing exams. This course of study is
credit-bearing and will be provided by CUSOM." Board scores have been pretty good, so maybe it isn't that bad?Any M3s/M4s want to chime in on how effective this has been? Board prep is a STUDENT responsibility. You prepare for boards by learning from the first day of your first year. Yes, I would hope current students chime in on this.

Overall, it seems CUSOM hasn't really figured out 3rd/4th year yet, which is surprising since the current DO/military matches have been pretty good. Military match is a different animal so I can't comment on it, but it does not appear to be atypical from other schools. "Pretty good" relative to what? Most of the class is still unmatched, you will probably have better idea once ACGME match is back.

Hopefully some M3/M4 students here can talk about what they think about CUSOM'S clinical years. Thanks @DocMcSporty for any response as well!



As another physician who interacts with medical students daily, I can tell that you are quite frustrated with the clinical experience that CUSOM students are currently receiving. If there had been another forum with which to provide this feedback to administration, I am going to assume that you would have used it (based on point 3). Out of concern for current and future students at CUSOM, it would be helpful if you could provide a little additional information. I have spoken with administration about my concerns without resolution. My concern is also for future students. I will say this again and again, medical education is a student responsibility. Whether you go to Campbell or a more established school the student must take full responsibility. But if I were in a student's shoes and had other options, I would avoid Campbell.

1. Are you familiar with the accrediting body (COCA) standards for the clinical years? They increasingly continue to require and assess outcomes. This would mean examinations in the third year, OSCE's, and board preparation material requiring some time away from rotations. In addition, osteopathic integration standards require more offerings in the clinical years for their students. Yes, I looked at them closely and interacted with COCA during a site visit. I voiced my concerns and to my understanding COCA made recommendations to the Dean. Also, I am not aware of any intentional COCA violations. To the best of my knowledge Campbell has been meeting all COCA standards and should have no issues with accreditation.

2. There is generally some flux in rotation sites, especially in the newer years of a school. There may be new partnerships being formed that are not yet public. Is this a complaint of current students in clinical years or adjunct faculty, or both? Student representation usually continues into the clinical years and is usually best received by administration through this representation. (It reduces the perceived "whining" mentioned in #7, and those student reps can follow-up on a recurrent basis). To my knowledge complaints and recommendations for improvement went through the student reps by appropriate channels. The perceived whining stems from stubbornness from some of the associate deans.
3. AOA residency positions that will continue past 2020 (four years and longer programs) were already pulled from this year's match. That means that these newer residencies will require ACGME applications as the length of their program requires. Therefore, Campbell is likely in the process of these applications so that they continue beyond the merger. Dragging feet will be revealed at next year's match. Unless you have any additional information? I do have additional info, but did not want to get into the weeds. Briefly, again it's in my opinion only, core requirements for ACGME accreditation (at SOME sites) are not on track to be met, you can send me a private message to discuss further. The dragging feet comment is a direct observation of the individuals responsible for meeting accreditation requirements. They supposedly started the process about 18 months ago but have not made much progress. We'll see what happens.

4. Ultimate responsibility for attendance at rotations usually lies with preceptors. If students are clearing an absence for interviews with preceptors, there should not be any problems with their status at the school. What better lie are they coming up with that beats a residency interview? I 100% agree with you ultimate responsibility for attendance at rotations lies with preceptors, for whatever reason Campbell does not see it that way. Attendings received an email from the Campbell administration that students have a strict 4day/month allowance for interviews. Furthermore, students are supposed to ask for permission from their preceptor, their site coordinator, and Campbell administration prior to attending the interview. They have a strict policy of not allowing additional days off once their allowance is up. For those that go over their allowance they must make up days during their vacation. So, very logically, the students have just cut out the site coordinator and Campbell administration from the process. To my 4th year students, I tell them if they receive an interview invite to attend, don't bother with Campbell. Again I 100% agree with your statement "If students are clearing an absence for interviews with preceptors, there should not be any problems with their status at the school." Unfortunately it has not been the case at Campbell.

5. Are you participating in the "course prep" mentioned in point 6? If not, I would like to reserve judgement on this point until we hear from those who may be. Agree, reserving judgment on this is best. Again, I don't have specifics - just relaying some common issues that students have brought to my attention that I believe applicants should be aware of.
Again, thank you for voicing your concerns, and, hopefully, Campbell will improve its feedback process so that valuable faculty don't feel so discouraged that the only way they are heard is on a public forum. In terms of compensation, that really is best left to other avenues. (I agree, more of a rant. Not appropriate for a student forum, my apologies. The bigger issue here is that I fear there will be a growing deficit of preceptors affecting student education.) I am eager to hear your responses and those of the students although I have no professional ties to this school. I do believe it is a newer D.O. School that has a lot of promise despite the need for some improvements now.

Thank you for your comments. I responded to your questions in line. My only intention of making this post is to guide students with options away from a rather poorly run program. I realize I was not too clear initially but I was trying to be to the point as it is already a rather long post. Ultimately students are responsible for their own education and attending Campbell will not deter them in any way if they do things correctly.



As a fourth year (who is familiar with this particular site) I'd like to also respond in part to these comments. The way this doctor felt treated by Campbell is sad and I won't try to justify that but I think there is a lot going on here besides simply bad administration.
This particular hospital I know has had a lot of turmoil since growing into a primary community teaching hospital for CUSOM and it still seems to be experiencing tension in that. There has also been a transition of Regional Deans a few months into this process last year which didn't help anything, as he left to start a new school. There have been a couple (2 that I know for sure) regional dean transitions. Further, there have been significant changes at the associate dean level at main campus. Some of the new hires, to put it is bluntly as possible, are inappropriate for medical school administration.

I haven't always agree with Campbell's administrative decisions but I've never felt they neglected our education or didn't listen. In fact, they have been far more interested in our feedback through a nauseating amount of surveys and questionaires. I would say, with having friends at other "top" schools like UNC, our hiccups are more quickly responded to then theirs does because we lack large bureaucratic institutions and hospitals. I guess it depends on the hiccup. My exposure is with clinical hiccups that I believe can be easily addressed. Surveys and questionnaires are only helpful if implemented.

I think the biggest challenge is the dynamic for creating new rotations that occurs between hospital admin, community doctors and CUSOM admin who are still figuring out a system of handling problems. The OB rotation is in part the problem of OB services of private practices and the lack of providers in the area. I'm not sure what the situation regarding why its a gender division right now but I will just say, this is one example of the growing pains of our school establishing state wide rotations. This happens for my friends at Duke, UNC, and ECU too who do rotations in community hospitals so I'm not sure why this is being blown up so significantly. There are plenty of OB providers in this area. They simply do not want students. It's an issue that could have been addressed but complacency played a large role from my perspective. The gender division exists because the one attending that takes students refuses male students - that's a big problem and should be blown up by students.

The biggest challenge that you are referring to is a reason to avoid Campbell if possible. I'm not so sure student and attending feedback are being properly "handled."

All this to say, I think medical school has proven to be largely a process of personal initiative and once there, the more you can make of whatever situation you are in, the better you will be. I think you'll find with our board scores/pass rates and matches, there is not as big of a situation as appears here. All that to say, I do hope some of the above will be addressed sooner than later. "Medical school has proven to be largely a process of personal initiative and once there, the more you can make of whatever situation you are in, the better you will be." Perfect statement and I wish for all students to have this perspective from their first day. I do not believe the outcome would be much different if a student attends Campbell or a more established school. But, after being in medicine for 20+years I can say that if I were a student I would choose another school if I had the option. If it is your only acceptance, or you need to stay in state, or whatever reason Campbell will be just fine. Just be forewarned that your experience will not be great especially when it matters 3rd and 4th year.

I hope that was helpful and clears up my sentiment. I am hopeful some more 3rd/4th year students chime in on their experiences.

 

[Goro femme]

(I am obviously new to posting on this forum. Sorry the formatting of the post is awkward, my responses to previous posts are in BOLD)

I'll be attending CUSOM so I do have some questions.


2. Seems 4/5 do have OB rotations, but 1 does not. I'm sure CUSOM makes sure all students have OB/GYN rotations since we have to take the shelf exam on it. Maybe CUSOM doesn't see the need for so many rotations for OB/GYN if they already have four more? Any male M3s (or any M3s for that matter) feel shafted on their OB/GYN rotations or any other rotations? Just one site has this OB/GYN issue. OB is core rotation everybody must participate in. Going from site to site is typically not a feasible option. Studying for shelf is independent of clinical experience. Yes, males get shafted on this rotation. When asked to do OB/GYN at a different site or set something up on their own they were denied.

3. Seems CUSOM faculty have poor communication with your rotation site. Do you know is this happens to other affiliated hospitals? Seems like this poor relationship can damage the rotation sites for future students. I can only comment about attendings/residents I have spoken to. In general, the relationship is poor.

4. I was looking at the residency spots CUSOM has on their website. Most links do say "pre-accreditation" or "process of applying" for ACGME accreditation (although the Sampson links don't work). Is this what you're referring to? (http://ww2.campbell.edu/cusom/academics/gme-program/residency-programs/) Go to ACGME website to track accreditation process. "Pre accreditation" means they placed an application. "Process of applying" means nothing. I would go to the ACGME site for clarity. http://www.acgme.org/What-We-Do/Accreditation/Single-GME-Accreditation-System

Also search the AOA opportunities site for Campbell programs to check on their status.

6. I think you may be referring to this which I found on the Academic Bulletin,
"Students will be provided a course of study within Block 8 which serves as capstone to the first two years of
the curriculum, and also should assist in final preparation for national licensing exams. This course of study is
credit-bearing and will be provided by CUSOM." Board scores have been pretty good, so maybe it isn't that bad?Any M3s/M4s want to chime in on how effective this has been? Board prep is a STUDENT responsibility. You prepare for boards by learning from the first day of your first year. Yes, I would hope current students chime in on this.

Overall, it seems CUSOM hasn't really figured out 3rd/4th year yet, which is surprising since the current DO/military matches have been pretty good. Military match is a different animal so I can't comment on it, but it does not appear to be atypical from other schools. "Pretty good" relative to what? Most of the class is still unmatched, you will probably have better idea once ACGME match is back.

Hopefully some M3/M4 students here can talk about what they think about CUSOM'S clinical years. Thanks @DocMcSporty for any response as well!



As another physician who interacts with medical students daily, I can tell that you are quite frustrated with the clinical experience that CUSOM students are currently receiving. If there had been another forum with which to provide this feedback to administration, I am going to assume that you would have used it (based on point 3). Out of concern for current and future students at CUSOM, it would be helpful if you could provide a little additional information. I have spoken with administration about my concerns without resolution. My concern is also for future students. I will say this again and again, medical education is a student responsibility. Whether you go to Campbell or a more established school the student must take full responsibility. But if I were in a student's shoes and had other options, I would avoid Campbell.

1. Are you familiar with the accrediting body (COCA) standards for the clinical years? They increasingly continue to require and assess outcomes. This would mean examinations in the third year, OSCE's, and board preparation material requiring some time away from rotations. In addition, osteopathic integration standards require more offerings in the clinical years for their students. Yes, I looked at them closely and interacted with COCA during a site visit. I voiced my concerns and to my understanding COCA made recommendations to the Dean. Also, I am not aware of any intentional COCA violations. To the best of my knowledge Campbell has been meeting all COCA standards and should have no issues with accreditation.

2. There is generally some flux in rotation sites, especially in the newer years of a school. There may be new partnerships being formed that are not yet public. Is this a complaint of current students in clinical years or adjunct faculty, or both? Student representation usually continues into the clinical years and is usually best received by administration through this representation. (It reduces the perceived "whining" mentioned in #7, and those student reps can follow-up on a recurrent basis). To my knowledge complaints and recommendations for improvement went through the student reps by appropriate channels. The perceived whining stems from stubbornness from some of the associate deans.
3. AOA residency positions that will continue past 2020 (four years and longer programs) were already pulled from this year's match. That means that these newer residencies will require ACGME applications as the length of their program requires. Therefore, Campbell is likely in the process of these applications so that they continue beyond the merger. Dragging feet will be revealed at next year's match. Unless you have any additional information? I do have additional info, but did not want to get into the weeds. Briefly, again it's in my opinion only, core requirements for ACGME accreditation (at SOME sites) are not on track to be met, you can send me a private message to discuss further. The dragging feet comment is a direct observation of the individuals responsible for meeting accreditation requirements. They supposedly started the process about 18 months ago but have not made much progress. We'll see what happens.

4. Ultimate responsibility for attendance at rotations usually lies with preceptors. If students are clearing an absence for interviews with preceptors, there should not be any problems with their status at the school. What better lie are they coming up with that beats a residency interview? I 100% agree with you ultimate responsibility for attendance at rotations lies with preceptors, for whatever reason Campbell does not see it that way. Attendings received an email from the Campbell administration that students have a strict 4day/month allowance for interviews. Furthermore, students are supposed to ask for permission from their preceptor, their site coordinator, and Campbell administration prior to attending the interview. They have a strict policy of not allowing additional days off once their allowance is up. For those that go over their allowance they must make up days during their vacation. So, very logically, the students have just cut out the site coordinator and Campbell administration from the process. To my 4th year students, I tell them if they receive an interview invite to attend, don't bother with Campbell. Again I 100% agree with your statement "If students are clearing an absence for interviews with preceptors, there should not be any problems with their status at the school." Unfortunately it has not been the case at Campbell.

5. Are you participating in the "course prep" mentioned in point 6? If not, I would like to reserve judgement on this point until we hear from those who may be. Agree, reserving judgment on this is best. Again, I don't have specifics - just relaying some common issues that students have brought to my attention that I believe applicants should be aware of.
Again, thank you for voicing your concerns, and, hopefully, Campbell will improve its feedback process so that valuable faculty don't feel so discouraged that the only way they are heard is on a public forum. In terms of compensation, that really is best left to other avenues. (I agree, more of a rant. Not appropriate for a student forum, my apologies. The bigger issue here is that I fear there will be a growing deficit of preceptors affecting student education.) I am eager to hear your responses and those of the students although I have no professional ties to this school. I do believe it is a newer D.O. School that has a lot of promise despite the need for some improvements now.

Thank you for your comments. I responded to your questions in line. My only intention of making this post is to guide students with options away from a rather poorly run program. I realize I was not too clear initially but I was trying to be to the point as it is already a rather long post. Ultimately students are responsible for their own education and attending Campbell will not deter them in any way if they do things correctly.



As a fourth year (who is familiar with this particular site) I'd like to also respond in part to these comments. The way this doctor felt treated by Campbell is sad and I won't try to justify that but I think there is a lot going on here besides simply bad administration.
This particular hospital I know has had a lot of turmoil since growing into a primary community teaching hospital for CUSOM and it still seems to be experiencing tension in that. There has also been a transition of Regional Deans a few months into this process last year which didn't help anything, as he left to start a new school. There have been a couple (2 that I know for sure) regional dean transitions. Further, there have been significant changes at the associate dean level at main campus. Some of the new hires, to put it is bluntly as possible, are inappropriate for medical school administration.

I haven't always agree with Campbell's administrative decisions but I've never felt they neglected our education or didn't listen. In fact, they have been far more interested in our feedback through a nauseating amount of surveys and questionaires. I would say, with having friends at other "top" schools like UNC, our hiccups are more quickly responded to then theirs does because we lack large bureaucratic institutions and hospitals. I guess it depends on the hiccup. My exposure is with clinical hiccups that I believe can be easily addressed. Surveys and questionnaires are only helpful if implemented.

I think the biggest challenge is the dynamic for creating new rotations that occurs between hospital admin, community doctors and CUSOM admin who are still figuring out a system of handling problems. The OB rotation is in part the problem of OB services of private practices and the lack of providers in the area. I'm not sure what the situation regarding why its a gender division right now but I will just say, this is one example of the growing pains of our school establishing state wide rotations. This happens for my friends at Duke, UNC, and ECU too who do rotations in community hospitals so I'm not sure why this is being blown up so significantly. There are plenty of OB providers in this area. They simply do not want students. It's an issue that could have been addressed but complacency played a large role from my perspective. The gender division exists because the one attending that takes students refuses male students - that's a big problem and should be blown up by students.

The biggest challenge that you are referring to is a reason to avoid Campbell if possible. I'm not so sure student and attending feedback are being properly "handled."

All this to say, I think medical school has proven to be largely a process of personal initiative and once there, the more you can make of whatever situation you are in, the better you will be. I think you'll find with our board scores/pass rates and matches, there is not as big of a situation as appears here. All that to say, I do hope some of the above will be addressed sooner than later. "Medical school has proven to be largely a process of personal initiative and once there, the more you can make of whatever situation you are in, the better you will be." Perfect statement and I wish for all students to have this perspective from their first day. I do not believe the outcome would be much different if a student attends Campbell or a more established school. But, after being in medicine for 20+years I can say that if I were a student I would choose another school if I had the option. If it is your only acceptance, or you need to stay in state, or whatever reason Campbell will be just fine. Just be forewarned that your experience will not be great especially when it matters 3rd and 4th year.

I hope that was helpful and clears up my sentiment. I am hopeful some more 3rd/4th year students chime in on their experiences.

Contrary to your intent, I am impressed with Campbell's ability to attract such caring adjunct faculty for a new school. There are many osteopathic schools that would like to see this kind of involvement by their adjunct faculty. If, however, things from here only stay the same or get worse, in say 6 mos. or so, the school will be in trouble. Please update as situation allows. At 6 mos., we will be active into a new cycle, and the ACGME match will be long over. Plus, CUSOM graduates may have a chance to give their entire medical school feedback.

If I were a student representative from CUSOM, I would take a screen shot DocMcSporty's post as it seems legitimate. If all student representatives from the school submit it to the applicable (revolving door of) regional/associate deans, it would be difficult to label you as unprofessional but more that you are doing your jobs of representation. Again, if ALL reps were to do this, you would all be doing your jobs together. I'll throw in the question, how can adult students be expected to act as adults when there are strict attendance policies currently enforced? As mentioned above, the ultimate responsibility for their medical education ultimately lies with students and the choices that they make.

This is an exciting time in that the profession is rapidly growing. However, I hope that we have fellow physicians like DocMcSporty on the lookout for quality issues. The merger also adds importance for student leaders to get involved. I know the current AOA president, Dr. Buser, is in the camp that the merger is only a positive for the profession. We will see what happens to these new residency spots started by CUSOM and how they last through the merger.

 

[Rishikish]

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[DocMcSporty]

It seems that the biggest take away from all of this is that 1/5 of the rotation sites Campbell has needs to be improved dramatically in terms of communication. No, that is not the biggest take away. You missed a few big picture points. I would consider re-reading.

Everything else (course prep, interview scheduling, etc.) is subjective student by student, and since board scores have been good I don't think it's a major issue. How good? Do you have averages relative to national averages? Please share as I have not seen them published.

For example, here's a quote from a CUSOM student on board prep: As I understand it, the entire third year class took boards already. Those that didn't pass (I think 9?) go through boards bootcamp and then retake. By the time I hit the comlex I will have taken 4 full length proctored comlex assesments, sat through a month of dedicated board prep instruction an then had 6wk to take my exam. If I don't pass it should be something I saw coming a mile away....clearly almost everyone got their job done and did just fine.

Here's another quote from that same student: If you score well enough on assessments, you can skip the board prep class. This student appears to be a first or second year.. I would invite a student that has gone through this to comment.


So it seems it's 4 weeks of board prep by Kaplan, and 6 weeks of alone time. 10 weeks is more than enough (not including the board prep between first and second year). And you can skip the board prep if you do well enough on the assessment exams. If I were you I would ask a current student in person how they feel about this Kaplan course, I have heard lots of unaddressed valid complaints. To reiterate, I would hope a 3rd or 4th year will better address this than I can. For interviewing students I would ask during your tours or time with current students about their perceptions.

Time off for residency interviews can also change in the next four years of enough students go over CUSOM'S head to get more interview time. But it's not as if that's stopped students from matching into competitive residencies in the AOA match. You missed the point again. The point was that most of them had to BS the process and face unnecessary consequence for taking time off for interviews if discovered by administration. This is unheard of across the country, you don't understand this yet, but if things remain unchanged you will learn quickly.

In terms of "good matches", I meant in terms of the AOA matches to derm, ortho, gen surgery, etc for an inagural class to programs like Case Western and Leigh Valley is pretty good. But you're right, still have to wait on ACGME results next month to get the bigger picture. Your perceptions of the definition of "good match" may evolve with some more research. Here's something else for you to investigate - how many Campbell students ended up at Campbell residencies (and why)?

It is a bit extreme to say avoid a school because one rotation site is having renovation done in admin staff. I'm sure in the next three years when we rotate, it will be sorted out. Again you missed a few key points. I am referring to an institutional issue when I refer to admin staff. I hope things will get sorted out, and am rather confident they will be over time (1yr? 3yrs? 5yrs? - who knows). But, I will say again, if you have other options available I would strongly consider those. Nothing extreme there.

Everything else is student dependent, although like any school, the amount of effort you put in and the success you get is on you and not the school. CUSOM is a new school, but it's doing lots of things to make sure students are prepped for the future. I'm sure in four years things will be vastly improved on the next couple of years of feedback. There is no reason it should take that long to improve. They have good feedback already and are sitting on it.



@Goro femme has solid advice. Take a screenshot of some of the issues and ask questions. Ultimately you are paying lots of money for a product and you want the best experience. Ask students, ask faculty. Ask during your visitation days and ask during your interviews.

 

[Rishikish]

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[Petrichor1]

I am so confused with how discussion is taking place and this is not even the only school I have acceptances to so I am not defending a place just because. Firstly, why is an attending all of a sudden has such powerful attraction to bash a new school that has done so well in their first AOA match? Of all the schools (both md and do) I have interviewed at I have been saying hands down this school has got its stuff together. If you don't believe me, please go through an interview with this school. They do a very good job to not exude the weird vibes I have been getting at other schools. I did speak with 3rd years and 2nd years during my visit and they were very professional about handling no bs. It does scare me about issues related to rotations but it is really a work in progress. For some reason every student I have tried contacting is fine with the curriculum. I have gone to other places where ppl have hinted at me and my group not to go to their school.
Why is this discussion taking place in the 2017 forum when this is the time when ppl are being waitlisted for acceptances? Campbell has had an established name as I understand it even before the medical school installment. They are frequently in talks with regional medical schools and faculty. They are figuring rotations out but so far they are working hard. How is it that you seem to know more regarding the inner workings of their rotation planning when you are an acting mentor outside of the administration system? It's very hard for me to believe that when this school responds to student queries they are waiving the strong concern of a physician.

 

[DocMcSporty]

For those wondering, 3rd/4th-year students did respond to your original post in the CUSOM Class of 2021 Facebook group.

A lot of what you have said they have dramatically disagreed with each point you made in your original post, and have actually questioned your legitimacy (since your account is only a couple of weeks old and why is an attending physician have enough time to be worked up on Campbell).

A summary of the curriculum has been "things have changed since 4th years went through didactic and level 1 board prep", "Things that the fourth years may have run into as issues, won't be issues by the time you get to be in rotations", "the 4th years had a completely different clinical skills curriculum and a different person in charge", " our second years right now are at school for their prep course and they seem to think its helpful or they wouldn't all be there. It's optional. We also get COMBANK questions, free Kaplan books, and our board scores have been really good!", etc

I am confident in CUSOM's curriculum and willingness to adapt than what an outside physician has to say based on their own frustrations with changing Regional Deans, which to be blunt is all you can complain about. I don't understand how a physician at an affiliate hospital can say that CUSOM anything outside of the quality of the students and admin. Everything else is valid student opinion (board prep, interview time, availability of rotation sites, etc).

Just as it is too early to make judgments on CUSOM being a good school, it is too early to make judgments on it being a school to "completely avoid".

I hope that some of the 3rd/4th-year students on SDN can also verify some of the comments of the 3rd/4th year students in the Facebook group or add in anything. I believe @sb247 is a medical student at CUSOM who can chime in on these points.

You have my advice, I won't be bothered by you rejecting it. Cheers.

 

[Petrichor1]

You have my advice, I won't be bothered by you rejecting it. Cheers.

You mention ob gyn rotations and yet by your sdn name I am to believe you are in sports medicine. So like do we have a greys anatomy surgeon who is taking dips into different specialties and giving advice about a school's rotations, board score, aaaand other facets that only seem to be in the inner circle of the school? I have been in sdn long enough to get a whiff of a troll.

 

[Petrichor1]

Here is an interesting in-the-fam type of question: Can you guess who administrates Southeastern hospital?

 

[Rishikish]

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[Petrichor1]

As a longtime sdn member, I want to gravely advise all those that are meaning ill will in the process to dissuade candidates out of any school to clearly think of the words you type. I and other applicants who hold multiple acceptances are in a very difficult situation at this time and choosing one medical school is hard enough. Financials don't meet, location doesn't seem close enough, blah blah blah. This process has taken every bit of emotion out of me and other hardworking students. To have a person questionably trying to act as an attending and taking away credibility in this forum is something I and others take very seriously. If you are a premed who is currently seeking admissions @DocMcSporty, I strongly support you and tell you that you will get into a medical school if you work hard enough. This is a crazy process but I had to give up a lot of things (including a job) for a year in order to feel like I was pursuing my dream. There are real people (with faces and identification) that have had the guts to tell me what is going on and not a single person has gone beyond saying the adequate support they have received. Medical school is 100% on you. You are the only person to deal with the match you get. But in the process, the medical school harbors the community where you feel protected and supported which this school seems to be doing (including plenty other well established schools I have talked with).

Also I just want to reiterate to anyone who may be dissuaded by this person: If you are going to get dictated by people's words and opinions and not start thinking for yourself, there is not any power in this world that can allow you to become what you want to be.

 

[Rishikish]

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