Liberty University (LUCOM) Discussion Thread 2014 - 2015

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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DoctorSynthesis said:
http://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/index.cfm?PID=30383
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There is more to life than average MCAT or GPA. While I have seen your argument that MCAT is a predictor 'typical' student, I'm not so sure I've seen my share of "typical" students. I know the valedictorian from my wife's class had a horrible MCAT, but then he went on to rank first in his class and (I believe) had the highest board scores of his class.

And despite medians or means or any other number, you will still have applicants that are well above that. Take me for instance. 33 MCAT (11/11/11), a PharmD (with 3.7 GPA in pharmacy school). I'm applying to this school.

I try to focus less on the numbers because there is so much to being a good physician. Otherwise, you would not be able to have two graduates from the same school have such differing aptitudes as physicians. I know two residents that graduated in the same class from the same school. One is significantly sharper than the other, yet, in theory, they had the same education.

In my opinion, the education itself matters less than the student. Good students will excel at any school and become good physicians. Even a lazy graduate of Harvard or Yale can still be an awful physician, even if they had brilliant stats going in.

That's one of the things I like so much about osteopathic schools. They have a more holistic approach and realize that people are so much more than just a few numbers. The schools try to pick the people they think will excel in their program. It needs to be a mutual fit, both student for the school and school for the student.
 
JSensei said:
There is more to life than average MCAT or GPA. While I have seen your argument that MCAT is a predictor 'typical' student, I'm not so sure I've seen my share of "typical" students. I know the valedictorian from my wife's class had a horrible MCAT, but then he went on to rank first in his class and (I believe) had the highest board scores of his class.

And despite medians or means or any other number, you will still have applicants that are well above that. Take me for instance. 33 MCAT (11/11/11), a PharmD (with 3.7 GPA in pharmacy school). I'm applying to this school.

I try to focus less on the numbers because there is so much to being a good physician. Otherwise, you would not be able to have two graduates from the same school have such differing aptitudes as physicians. I know two residents that graduated in the same class from the same school. One is significantly sharper than the other, yet, in theory, they had the same education.

In my opinion, the education itself matters less than the student. Good students will excel at any school and become good physicians. Even a lazy graduate of Harvard or Yale can still be an awful physician, even if they had brilliant stats going in.

That's one of the things I like so much about osteopathic schools. They have a more holistic approach and realize that people are so much more than just a few numbers. The schools try to pick the people they think will excel in their program. It needs to be a mutual fit, both student for the school and school for the student.
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Sorry man, but there's no such thing as a "lazy graduate of Harvard or Yale." Anyway, I think claiming the reason DO schools have lower stats to be that they look at a more universal picture of the applicant is BS to be honest (I say that as a DO student myself). MD schools look at their applicants whole application as well. The reason that they have higher stats is because they have the more competitive applicants to choose from, and those that get into both DO and MD schools choose to go MD because of the better opportunities that these schools provide post med school. The fact is that MCAT scores (and standardized test scores in general) do in fact give a good indication of whether a student will do well on the boards, although it might not accurately predict their exact score. This stress on standardized tests doesn't go away either, as program directors want to pick applicants that are most likely to be successful in completely their programs (which also involves more standardized tests). Considering your stats I would urge you to consider the many better options out there for you rather than wasting your time with this school. They have yet to graduate a class and no matter how much you like their facilities or staff that is still taking a huge risk, not to mention the harmful rhetoric preached by their parent university (still don't understand how all of you guys can keep ignoring that). Anyway, best of luck, sounds like with your stats you will get many acceptances.
 
soitgoes32 said:
Sorry man, but there's no such thing as a "lazy graduate of Harvard or Yale." Anyway, I think claiming the reason DO schools have lower stats to be that they look at a more universal picture of the applicant is BS to be honest (I say that as a DO student myself). MD schools look at their applicants whole application as well. The reason that they have higher stats is because they have the more competitive applicants to choose from, and those that get into both DO and MD schools choose to go MD because of the better opportunities that these schools provide post med school. The fact is that MCAT scores (and standardized test scores in general) do in fact give a good indication of whether a student will do well on the boards, although it might not accurately predict their exact score. This stress on standardized tests doesn't go away either, as program directors want to pick applicants that are most likely to be successful in completely their programs (which also involves more standardized tests). Considering your stats I would urge you to consider the many better options out there for you rather than wasting your time with this school. They have yet to graduate a class and no matter how much you like their facilities or staff that is still taking a huge risk, not to mention the harmful rhetoric preached by their parent university (still don't understand how all of you guys can keep ignoring that). Anyway, best of luck, sounds like with your stats you will get many acceptances.
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So if you aren't interested in this school, why are you even in this thread? I fail to really understand why a few of you would stay behind just to grief people that applied.

MCAT as a whole may be a predictor, but you need a LOT of data points to be able to build a curve. The fact is, most people will only take it a few times each. As it stands now, the MCAT will ask you 21 things. You can take the test the next day and score somewhat wildly differently depending on which 21 you get. Maybe your test had more acid/base chemistry and less magnetism. Or maybe it was chock full of circuits and that never was your strong suit.

For most people preparing for that exam, if they take enough of them (practice tests or otherwise) they will find that they score X/Y/Z +/- 1 in all three sub sections. On a really lucky day you could get +1 in all three. In a really unlucky day, you could get -1 in all three. With an intraperson variability of a six points (albeit not with equal probability), I'd say that the MCAT is not the brilliant predictor it is made out to be. There just isn't anything better out there. But that doesn't mean that what we have isn't necessarily broken. It also doesn't take into account people who get test anxiety or are just lucky guessers.

I feel that standardized tests are not the world's best indicator of anything, and I tend to crush them. My 97 PCAT is a solid score. It does as much for my practice of pharmacy as knowing force exerted by a charged particle placed in a magnetic field will for my (eventual) practice of medicine. It's a screening tool to sort people that were better at filling in little ovals on that day.
 
I'm sure there are other factors but...

1. Liberty wants to enroll students who advance their mission.
2. Liberty wants to succeed as a new DO school.

They aren't starving for money, so they can focus more on students who advance their mission. BUT, they certainly will not let their school (or their students) fail by enrolling students who will not pass.

Enrolling at a new school is risky. However, after interviewing here, I trust that the school wants to succeed, wants me to succeed, and will do everything in their power to help me to succeed.
 
soitgoes32 said:
They have yet to graduate a class and no matter how much you like their facilities or staff that is still taking a huge risk, not to mention the harmful rhetoric preached by their parent university (still don't understand how all of you guys can keep ignoring that). Anyway, best of luck, sounds like with your stats you will get many acceptances.
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Maybe because it's exaggerated online by all of the people who don't go here and no matter how many times I or one of my classmates tries to explain that, some people refuse to believe it. I still don't understand that.

And hey! We are 12.5% of the way through med school 😉 time will fly and we will be graduating. But I know that's not the point you were trying to make lol. Sure there are a few bumps that need to be smoothed out but nothing that will hinder our education.

Cool thing about being the first class: we are writing constitutions and setting up local chapters for professional organizations. We are building the foundation. I get to meet with local non profits and set up volunteer opportunities for SOMA. LUCOM hasn't left any kind of imprint on the community yet. We get to be the ones to make a first impression and set the standard. Our ideas and unique perspectives will be what becomes the foundation. Our firsts will become LUCOMs annuals. We make it what we want. How is that not awesome?? Lol. Why not have a little fun? I'll graduate either way and get a job. I have no doubts about that.

We have so many amazing opportunities here. If being a leader and serving your community doesn't sound exciting to you, then you probably wouldn't fit in with LUCOMs mission. That's fine, really. Schools that only care about academics don't care about that. LUCOM emphasizes it. They all graduate doctors. I think it's great news for all of us.
 
JSensei said:
So if you aren't interested in this school, why are you even in this thread? I fail to really understand why a few of you would stay behind just to grief people that applied.

MCAT as a whole may be a predictor, but you need a LOT of data points to be able to build a curve. The fact is, most people will only take it a few times each. As it stands now, the MCAT will ask you 21 things. You can take the test the next day and score somewhat wildly differently depending on which 21 you get. Maybe your test had more acid/base chemistry and less magnetism. Or maybe it was chock full of circuits and that never was your strong suit.

For most people preparing for that exam, if they take enough of them (practice tests or otherwise) they will find that they score X/Y/Z +/- 1 in all three sub sections. On a really lucky day you could get +1 in all three. In a really unlucky day, you could get -1 in all three. With an intraperson variability of a six points (albeit not with equal probability), I'd say that the MCAT is not the brilliant predictor it is made out to be. There just isn't anything better out there. But that doesn't mean that what we have isn't necessarily broken. It also doesn't take into account people who get test anxiety or are just lucky guessers.

I feel that standardized tests are not the world's best indicator of anything, and I tend to crush them. My 97 PCAT is a solid score. It does as much for my practice of pharmacy as knowing force exerted by a charged particle placed in a magnetic field will for my (eventual) practice of medicine. It's a screening tool to sort people that were better at filling in little ovals on that day.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point. Program directors do not care about whether you have test anxiety. In fact, this is a red flag to them because they only want to accept people who are going to pass the boards, period. Their prestige and funding is based on their ability to graduate board certified doctors, and doctors with test anxiety that struggle to pass these tests are less likely to succeed in doing so, no matter how much of a "servants heart" that they might have.

Take a look at the research as well before you speculate on all of these reason why you think the MCAT is not a good predictor of success in medical school....https://www.aamc.org/download/307774/data/clerkshipeducation-zahn.pdf
 
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Anyone know how late they interviewed last year? (roughly)
 
jsx1 said:
Anyone know how late they interviewed last year? (roughly)
Click to expand...
Don't know exactly but I think April? I know one person got an acceptance call 2 weeks before orientation
 
soitgoes32 said:
You're missing the point. Program directors do not care about whether you have test anxiety. In fact, this is a red flag to them because they only want to accept people who are going to pass the boards, period. Their prestige and funding is based on their ability to graduate board certified doctors, and doctors with test anxiety that struggle to pass these tests are less likely to succeed in doing so, no matter how much of a "servants heart" that they might have.

Take a look at the research as well before you speculate on all of these reason why you think the MCAT is not a good predictor of success in medical school....https://www.aamc.org/download/307774/data/clerkshipeducation-zahn.pdf
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Dont argue with people here or bash the school. It will get you put on probation. It happened to me. It's why I'm not replying.

If people want to go to this school let them. They just should know what they are getting into though.

I realize you're right but that doesn't mean much on this specific thread.
 
JSensei said:
I just did. They said the last interview date for the year was 12/16, and that actually fits my schedule. So I booked it. They will have dates in January if you just call them. The process was painless, I and I got my interview confirmation email in about an hour.

Congrats on the interview invite though.

Anyone else interviewing on 12/16?
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I'm interviewing 12/16! Congrats on your invite
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Dont argue with people here or bash the school. It will get you put on probation. It happened to me. It's why I'm not replying.

If people want to go to this school let them. They just should know what they are getting into though.

I realize you're right but that doesn't mean much on this specific thread.
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what exactly did you say in this thread that put you on probation?
 
touchpause13 said:
I didn't see anything there that looked particularly probation worthy.

But then I did manage to land myself on probation in the lounge of all places rofl
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Was put on probation for going off topic. I didn't understand it because I was just replying.tbh I'm kinda scared of posting on this thread and this very thing I'm posting right now is making me nervous.
 
JSensei said:
So if you aren't interested in this school, why are you even in this thread? I fail to really understand why a few of you would stay behind just to grief people that applied.

MCAT as a whole may be a predictor, but you need a LOT of data points to be able to build a curve. The fact is, most people will only take it a few times each. As it stands now, the MCAT will ask you 21 things. You can take the test the next day and score somewhat wildly differently depending on which 21 you get. Maybe your test had more acid/base chemistry and less magnetism. Or maybe it was chock full of circuits and that never was your strong suit.

For most people preparing for that exam, if they take enough of them (practice tests or otherwise) they will find that they score X/Y/Z +/- 1 in all three sub sections. On a really lucky day you could get +1 in all three. In a really unlucky day, you could get -1 in all three. With an intraperson variability of a six points (albeit not with equal probability), I'd say that the MCAT is not the brilliant predictor it is made out to be. There just isn't anything better out there. But that doesn't mean that what we have isn't necessarily broken. It also doesn't take into account people who get test anxiety or are just lucky guessers.

I feel that standardized tests are not the world's best indicator of anything, and I tend to crush them. My 97 PCAT is a solid score. It does as much for my practice of pharmacy as knowing force exerted by a charged particle placed in a magnetic field will for my (eventual) practice of medicine. It's a screening tool to sort people that were better at filling in little ovals on that day.
Click to expand...

Wat
 
Any current LUCOM students want to take me to the gym with them today? lol I tried to go in but they said i need to go in with a current student haha
 
When did you guys find out with whom you are interviewing? My interview is in a week, and I haven't heard back yet.
 
I found out who I was interviewing with the day of the interview.
 
Do you guys think its to late to submit the secondary. I applied late because me and my wife just had a kid and took the mcat late. Here are some stats EC. Let me know what you think.

GPA 3.71
sGPA3.5
MCAT 24 ( 8/8/8)

EC
Served a two you volunteer mission for my church
Worked as an EMT in an emergency department full time since August 2013
Done research and our research was published. (Organic Chem)
Started a Pre med club and ran a blood drive at my school.
Random volunteering with my church.
Volunteered at Cancer society
Over thirty hours shadowing.
Some other random things.

Let me know, I know I have some weak points , MCAT, but was working full time and summer school and a new baby. Was a crazy time. Thanks for the heads head.
 
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FutureDoc_OC said:
Do you guys think its to late to submit the secondary. I applied late because me and my wife just had a kid and took the mcat late. Here are some stats EC. Let me know what you think.

GPA 3.71
sGPA3.5
MCAT 24 ( 8/8/8)

EC
Served a two you volunteer mission for my church
Worked as an EMT in an emergency department full time since August 2013
Done research and our research was published. (Organic Chem)
Started a Pre med club and ran a blood drive at my school.
Random volunteering with my church.
Volunteered at Cancer society
Over thirty hours shadowing.
Some other random things.

Let me know, I know I have some weak points , MCAT, but was working full time and summer school and a new baby. Was a crazy time. Thanks for the heads head.
Click to expand...

I'd apply if I were you. You never know!
 
FutureDoc_OC said:
Do you guys think its to late to submit the secondary. I applied late because me and my wife just had a kid and took the mcat late. Here are some stats EC. Let me know what you think.

GPA 3.71
sGPA3.5
MCAT 24 ( 8/8/8)

EC
Served a two you volunteer mission for my church
Worked as an EMT in an emergency department full time since August 2013
Done research and our research was published. (Organic Chem)
Started a Pre med club and ran a blood drive at my school.
Random volunteering with my church.
Volunteered at Cancer society
Over thirty hours shadowing.
Some other random things.

Let me know, I know I have some weak points , MCAT, but was working full time and summer school and a new baby. Was a crazy time. Thanks for the heads head.
Click to expand...

I just submitted my secondary earlier this week and I have received an interview invite for January. You definitely should still submit.
 
FutureDoc_OC said:
Do you guys think its to late to submit the secondary. I applied late because me and my wife just had a kid and took the mcat late. Here are some stats EC. Let me know what you think.

GPA 3.71
sGPA3.5
MCAT 24 ( 8/8/8)

EC
Served a two you volunteer mission for my church
Worked as an EMT in an emergency department full time since August 2013
Done research and our research was published. (Organic Chem)
Started a Pre med club and ran a blood drive at my school.
Random volunteering with my church.
Volunteered at Cancer society
Over thirty hours shadowing.
Some other random things.

Let me know, I know I have some weak points , MCAT, but was working full time and summer school and a new baby. Was a crazy time. Thanks for the heads head.
Click to expand...

Definitely give it a shot. And regardless of the outcome, I think it'll give you great experience. I usually don't post on SDN, mostly a lurker but I've read some incredible "underdawg" stories and wanted to encourage you. What they all have in common is that they all remained persevering through challenging situations. ADCOM's will see the endurance in due time!
 
Thanks for the encouragement. I think I have a good shot. But time will tell.
 
My apps released 12/4, secondary same day and completed. II today 12/12/14. I would say its worth applying.

Last week of January are currently whats available.
 
Interviewed on Friday, it was a great experience and could def. see myself going here if accepted!
I would advise you guys to go and see the school for yourself rather than blindly believing comments on SDN. The faculty has a vision for the school and I believe is making the necessary steps towards preparing future students to be as clinically ready as possible. They are super friendly as well as the few students I talked with and the campus is BEAUTIFUL.
 
I know it's a little late in the game but I've decided I want to look at applying at a few more places. I have 8/7/7 (22) MCAT and 3.5 overall GPA and 3.1 science GPA. Biology major....but I have a religious studies minor (5 or 6 religion classes).
Would it be worth trying since I could "stand out" a little?
 
coffeelover67 said:
I know it's a little late in the game but I've decided I want to look at applying at a few more places. I have 8/7/7 (22) MCAT and 3.5 overall GPA and 3.1 science GPA. Biology major....but I have a religious studies minor (5 or 6 religion classes).
Would it be worth trying since I could "stand out" a little?
Click to expand...

I think they mentioned looking for 25s and above but I may be wrong about that.
 
A 25 will guarantee a secondary. If you have less than that, they will make a decision as to whether or not you get one. Worst case, you are out the money on the primary.
 
Ya it's a smaller secondary and $50 for it so it could be much worse. They really focused on service related aspects of our applications which was neat.
 
I am curious. Are any of you LUCOM to-be considering competitive residencies or residencies out of Primary Care?
 
breezy124 said:
I am curious. Are any of you LUCOM to-be considering competitive residencies or residencies out of Primary Care?
Click to expand...
I will be. I will initially go for residency for internal medicine, but then I will be looking for a fellowship in pulm/crit care or infectious disease
 
JSensei said:
I will be. I will initially go for residency for internal medicine, but then I will be looking for a fellowship in pulm/crit care or infectious disease
Click to expand...

Well, good luck to you 🙂 You will need it.
 
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