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Northwestern vs. Dartmouth
- Thread starter Decis
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Cinclus, what med. school did you pick over Dartmouth?
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I would give you an answer via private message, but you don't appear to have this feature enabled. I will make my choice public soon enough. 🙂
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mhmmm
1) Working 3-4 years as a lab manager for a big name professor (vetted the current President of Dartmouth)
2) our graduate student was a high ranking member on the medical school student council (inside scoop)
3) talking with multiple professors involved with the admissions committee (which was described to me as "poorly run and nebulous")
4) seeing for my own eyes multiple professors leaving the medical school in search of greener pasture or many of them having an extremely hard time in finding funding (yes, this could be said for most researchers right now with the economy)
5) listening to the proposed changes to the medical school curriculum, Dartmouth has a habit of throwing crap together at the last minute (such as - taking an inapporiate amount of time to form the committee), additionally the medical school has finally started taking a greater interest in medical school student abuse (the nurses are pretty mean, and the residents act high and mighty)
6) the vast majority of the upcoming improvements to the college are for the undergraduate side (Life Science Building was just completed near the medical school buildings [Vail and Remsen] but it houses undergraduate classes, I believe it was proposed to remove the medical school library to create a hall for the undergraduates [not sure of the current status of this project])
7) the college itself went through 2 big remaking of its budget, both times it was stated that the medical school is profitable and actually subsidizes the undergraduate side of operations, it was proposed to increase the class size to such a large number that Chilcott would not even have enough seating if all the medical students went to class
8) in my opinion the medical school is ranked low compared to the cost to attend, and the majority of the respect surrounding Dartmouth comes from the undergraduate Ivy college and the research/professors from 40-50 years ago (a by-gone era)
9) Vermont/New Hampshire are rural, mostly white, slow growing, and boring if you like variety (the restaurants are bland, aweful and over priced)
10) the best way to describe the Dartmouth area would be "it is a good place to raise a family"
11) good luck if you're single... not many women of quality around
I'd pick Northwestern.
The hospital is built on a hill, making it seem larger than it really is, it also includes a lot of "retail" space, and there are 2 pretty good size research buildings attached to the Hospital (Rubin and Borwell).
The hospital is beautiful on the inside, though.
haha...ok...no worries..yeah, not quite sure how to enable the private message thingy.
After reading Porfirio's post, Decis is definitely going to Northwestern. I would even go to an unranked medical school after reading that.
lol!!! Yup...u've definitely got that right.
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So much Dartmouth hating in here! Chip on your shoulder? I'm sure every school has issues. Maybe with all your insider info you were just more aware of it at Dartmouth.
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There are a couple of "insider" threads bashing Northwestern on here if you look around for them.
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Its in the middle of frozen tundra bfe; what else do u need?
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A DMS bashing thread based on the "inside scoop" of a lab manager and a graduate student? Hating from 2 different groups that tend to dislike med students anyways? Once a year around match week a take a peek at these forums, and I try to stay away from all conversations - but it's a slow day, so . . .
Admissions at DMS is unlike admissions at many other schools. The admissions department knows that not everyone will enjoy living in Hanover; and the med school class is small enough that a few unhappy people can hurt the experience of others. Aside from looking at scores and accomplishments, the admissions department is tasked with matching school/personal/classmate personalities. They're usually quick at being able to tell if someone is not going to fit in (rejections), but they often take some time with their acceptances. I often hear it being described as "unpredictible," but I've never heard it described as "poorly run" by the med students in the admissions committee.
Major changes - like creating a new curriculum - will always have some element of chaos, trial and error, etc... I've been involved with these changes at other jobs and during residency (wtf, what do you mean the new interns can't stay overnight?!?), and it's nothing unique to DMS. At least, Dartmouth is small enough to be able to make some of these changes quickly w/out having to deal with too much bureaucracy.
You'll be hard pressed to find a medical school that treats its medical students better than DMS. What they may call abuse at DHMC (nurse yelled at a student? oh no!) happens all the time at some big name, big city hospitals (I've seen it). DMS went completely overboard when one of my classmates complained about being treated poorly by a resident. While the resident was getting grilled by the staff, we had a special lecture/small group session on how to react when those things happen. Overall, DHMC very personal and benign. Bigger hospitals tend to be more toxic, cutthroat, and impersonal.
The overall master plan for DMS places the medical school at the DHMC campus; therefore, the current buildings will eventually be replaced by undergraduate buildings. In the meantime, having new research buildings near the medical school is not exactly a bad idea. Also, all undergrad buildings are open to DMS students - I personally never studied at our med school library. I preferred the basement and periodical rooms at Baker.
Class size was set to increase as soon as the Dartmouth-Brown program was deemed unnecessary by both parties. In fact, it started the year before that program ended when DMS partnered with an inner city NYC med school. Although there may be some financial motivation, it mainly has to do with the fact that a bigger, busier DHMC combined with more robust away clerkship rotation options increased the school's capability to educate a greater number of students. There is no conspiracy by the college to take money away from the medical school.
DMS will never have a very high ranking - it's too small and isolated to get the research funding needed for a top 10 school. Regardless of ranking, DMS has a great reputation that will keep all doors open for you. It's an exceptional, unique school that's not necessarily for everyone.
Match Lists - There are a lot of med students at DMS that turned down higher ranked med schools in big cities, and they did so for a variety of reasons . . . and for those same reasons, they often avoid some of the big name residency programs. Plenty of the DMS tree-hugging liberal hippies prefer programs in Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, etc.. than Boson, NYC, Philly or Chicago (you might be surprised at how hard it can be to match in Colorado and Utah). Being a small school, there's also little to no interest in some specialties. Here's what I got from the match list back when i was trying to decide where to go - can the school get me anywhere? if somehow I ended up near the bottom of my class, could I still end up at a strong residency?
Ok, that's pretty much my rant for today. DMS is a great school with many unique opportunities. It tries to push global health, making a difference in your community, and becoming a complete physician while keeping you happy, idealistic, and away from much of the superficial, materialistic bs. Classmates spend so much time together in and out of the classroom that many strong, long lasting relationships develop - mostly not in the grey's anatomy type of way.
Admissions at DMS is unlike admissions at many other schools. The admissions department knows that not everyone will enjoy living in Hanover; and the med school class is small enough that a few unhappy people can hurt the experience of others. Aside from looking at scores and accomplishments, the admissions department is tasked with matching school/personal/classmate personalities. They're usually quick at being able to tell if someone is not going to fit in (rejections), but they often take some time with their acceptances. I often hear it being described as "unpredictible," but I've never heard it described as "poorly run" by the med students in the admissions committee.
Major changes - like creating a new curriculum - will always have some element of chaos, trial and error, etc... I've been involved with these changes at other jobs and during residency (wtf, what do you mean the new interns can't stay overnight?!?), and it's nothing unique to DMS. At least, Dartmouth is small enough to be able to make some of these changes quickly w/out having to deal with too much bureaucracy.
You'll be hard pressed to find a medical school that treats its medical students better than DMS. What they may call abuse at DHMC (nurse yelled at a student? oh no!) happens all the time at some big name, big city hospitals (I've seen it). DMS went completely overboard when one of my classmates complained about being treated poorly by a resident. While the resident was getting grilled by the staff, we had a special lecture/small group session on how to react when those things happen. Overall, DHMC very personal and benign. Bigger hospitals tend to be more toxic, cutthroat, and impersonal.
The overall master plan for DMS places the medical school at the DHMC campus; therefore, the current buildings will eventually be replaced by undergraduate buildings. In the meantime, having new research buildings near the medical school is not exactly a bad idea. Also, all undergrad buildings are open to DMS students - I personally never studied at our med school library. I preferred the basement and periodical rooms at Baker.
Class size was set to increase as soon as the Dartmouth-Brown program was deemed unnecessary by both parties. In fact, it started the year before that program ended when DMS partnered with an inner city NYC med school. Although there may be some financial motivation, it mainly has to do with the fact that a bigger, busier DHMC combined with more robust away clerkship rotation options increased the school's capability to educate a greater number of students. There is no conspiracy by the college to take money away from the medical school.
DMS will never have a very high ranking - it's too small and isolated to get the research funding needed for a top 10 school. Regardless of ranking, DMS has a great reputation that will keep all doors open for you. It's an exceptional, unique school that's not necessarily for everyone.
Match Lists - There are a lot of med students at DMS that turned down higher ranked med schools in big cities, and they did so for a variety of reasons . . . and for those same reasons, they often avoid some of the big name residency programs. Plenty of the DMS tree-hugging liberal hippies prefer programs in Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, etc.. than Boson, NYC, Philly or Chicago (you might be surprised at how hard it can be to match in Colorado and Utah). Being a small school, there's also little to no interest in some specialties. Here's what I got from the match list back when i was trying to decide where to go - can the school get me anywhere? if somehow I ended up near the bottom of my class, could I still end up at a strong residency?
Ok, that's pretty much my rant for today. DMS is a great school with many unique opportunities. It tries to push global health, making a difference in your community, and becoming a complete physician while keeping you happy, idealistic, and away from much of the superficial, materialistic bs. Classmates spend so much time together in and out of the classroom that many strong, long lasting relationships develop - mostly not in the grey's anatomy type of way.
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I thought Dartmouth was nice when I visited (except for the -12F temps in dec). Snow, very picturesque, a roaring fire in the admissions office, very much what my mental image of rural new England would be, decor of the admissions offices was very ivy league, lots of mahagony and leather. The big question for me was spending the bigger part of 4 years in such a small town... It's sort of like choosing mayo, except Hanover is 1/10 the size of rochester and much further from Boston than Rochester is from the cities.
I am a future medical student (this Fall) and the graduate student is a MD student, so why would we dislike medical students? Anyways?
I am not trying to "DMS bash," but rather allow for the whole story to be told. You/others have said positive things, and I have told the story that is not told to potential new people. I only hope that everyone in this thread understands that all medical schools have problems/negatives about them. The OP should be presented with both sides (but you and the rest of the admissions people will not tell him these things).
By the way, I do not disagree with the positive things you have said about DMS. It is a good school (the majority of medical schools are good schools), but the OPer has a choice. I cannot help him/her with information on Northwestern.
Too true.
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for example, this thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=802934&highlight=northwestern
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=802934&highlight=northwestern
hey Decis,
yes, I am also deciding between the two schools.
It's difficult because they are so different, you know?
I think it's gonna come down to how I felt about the school during my visit & friends/family.
Good luck, and maybe I will run into you at second looks.
yes, I am also deciding between the two schools.
It's difficult because they are so different, you know?
I think it's gonna come down to how I felt about the school during my visit & friends/family.
Good luck, and maybe I will run into you at second looks.
Good luck to you too! 🙂. I agree with you about them being so different. Cheers to 2nd look!
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.As a DMS student I just wanted to add my opinion about DMS. While there are shreds of truth to what Porfirio says, his descriptions are exaggerated and misleading and some is just not true. (you should investigate for yourself using real sources)
.
. .
.From a students perspective:.
.DMS has lots of great research, faculty and the backing of a premier college..
.DMS is on the rise, recruiting faculty, moving up in the rankings and is committed to improvement..
. .
.The faculty and administration is seriously dedicated to the students and making the curriculum work for them. As a student, it is very easy to approach the administration and you are always taken seriously. You WILL learn everything well. Also, DMS students do very well on the boards, can match wherever they want (with appropriate scores) and many doctors I've talked to respect the clinical training very highly..
. .
.There are two things that I think are great and unique to DMS: First of all, the students are awesome; the school does a great job at creating a CULTURE of enthusiasm, fun and collaboration. You can tell that all the administration, students and faculty really, really want everyone to do well. Also, if you like outdoor sports and adventuring then DMS is a perfect medical school to be at. .
. .
.Secondly, students get tons of personal attention. If you just tell someone that you're interested in something the next thing you know you're meeting with the chair of the department for lunch. (this seriously happened to me). What I've experienced is that whatever I say I want to do, the administration is behind me 100% and helping out. Also, when I experienced a personal tragedy in my family, everyone was amazing with their support and understanding..
. .
.Summary: Come for the great people, small class and personal attention to follow your particular goals. Don't come if you need city life. --These are really the differences between DMS and other schools..
. .
.Definitely come to the second look, ask the hard questions, see for yourself and make up your own mind..
. .
.Always take everything on this site with a grain of salt. I know this sounds really biased, but it's just what I've actually experienced--I'm LIVING IT..
.
. .
.From a students perspective:.
.DMS has lots of great research, faculty and the backing of a premier college..
.DMS is on the rise, recruiting faculty, moving up in the rankings and is committed to improvement..
. .
.The faculty and administration is seriously dedicated to the students and making the curriculum work for them. As a student, it is very easy to approach the administration and you are always taken seriously. You WILL learn everything well. Also, DMS students do very well on the boards, can match wherever they want (with appropriate scores) and many doctors I've talked to respect the clinical training very highly..
. .
.There are two things that I think are great and unique to DMS: First of all, the students are awesome; the school does a great job at creating a CULTURE of enthusiasm, fun and collaboration. You can tell that all the administration, students and faculty really, really want everyone to do well. Also, if you like outdoor sports and adventuring then DMS is a perfect medical school to be at. .
. .
.Secondly, students get tons of personal attention. If you just tell someone that you're interested in something the next thing you know you're meeting with the chair of the department for lunch. (this seriously happened to me). What I've experienced is that whatever I say I want to do, the administration is behind me 100% and helping out. Also, when I experienced a personal tragedy in my family, everyone was amazing with their support and understanding..
. .
.Summary: Come for the great people, small class and personal attention to follow your particular goals. Don't come if you need city life. --These are really the differences between DMS and other schools..
. .
.Definitely come to the second look, ask the hard questions, see for yourself and make up your own mind..
. .
.Always take everything on this site with a grain of salt. I know this sounds really biased, but it's just what I've actually experienced--I'm LIVING IT..
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