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Any thoughts on UPenn vs BIDMC vs UChicago vs UPitt vs Yale especially in terms of someone going for a GI fellowship?

Penn, then everything else the way you liked them.

With that said, you can match to GI from any of them. That's not the kind of list that is exactly killing your chances at a GI spot, know what I mean?
 
Any thoughts on overall resident happiness at UWash vs UCLA vs UCSD? I've heard grumblings from at least 1 resident from each program stating they felt overworked and am wondering how prevalent this is.
 
Any thoughts on overall resident happiness at UWash vs UCLA vs UCSD? I've heard grumblings from at least 1 resident from each program stating they felt overworked and am wondering how prevalent this is.
I only interviewed at one of those programs so can't comment specifically. But, to address the bolded above, if you didn't hear this at every single program where you interviewed, then you didn't talk to enough residents. Or you went to somewhere like Mayo, Columbia or Hopkins where the Kool-Aid (and the beatings) are remarkably strong.

Any program where ~5% of the residents don't say "this place is so easy it's a joke" and another ~5% don't say "I'm getting killed, this place is so malignant" is probably best avoided.
 
I asked this on another thread but it's probably more appropriate here, i apologize for the repeat post just looking for some guidance

how would you rank UTSW, "Real Baylor", UAB, and WashU in terms of clinical experience and research opportunities? Would you say the experiences here would rival or even be better than some northeastern schools such as Brown, Sinai, or TJeff? I'm from the south and I'm torn because I love the weather and people here, but have serious FOMOiNE: fear of missing out in the northeast. Thanks!
 
I asked this on another thread but it's probably more appropriate here, i apologize for the repeat post just looking for some guidance

how would you rank UTSW, "Real Baylor", UAB, and WashU in terms of clinical experience and research opportunities? Would you say the experiences here would rival or even be better than some northeastern schools such as Brown, Sinai, or TJeff? I'm from the south and I'm torn because I love the weather and people here, but have serious FOMOiNE: fear of missing out in the northeast. Thanks!

If you do your IM residency at UTSW, Baylor or UAB, you won't be missing anything regardless of your future plans. And among the 3 I would always vote for UAB.
 
I am having trouble with MGH vs. Mount Sinai vs. UCLA. I am from the midwest, have no restrictions for location and can basically move anywhere. I am single and from Chicago so I want to move to another larger city. I want a program with intense clinical training and great exposure to everything, yet I still want to be able to enjoy my time away from the hospital. I definitely want to work with people I get along with and form relationships with since I will be moving to a brand-new place and my residents will become my new family. I am interested in GI and teaching, so I also want a place that would be able to get me a fellowship possibly back in Chicago, if need be.

I loved all three programs but UCLA's interview day especially stood out for me with how happy and cohesive the residents were, despite the intense training. I did a rotation in NYC for a month and absolutely loved my time in the city there, especially since I tried a new restaurant/bar every single night. I know obviously MGH is cream of the crop, but I just did not know if I connected personally with residents during my interview day, although everyone seemed happy and friendly. Also, MGH is the only "top-tier" interview I received (none from BWH, UCSF, Penn, Columbia etc), so I worry about my actual chances of matching there. Mount Sinai residents were super outgoing and fun and GI is so strong there, but I am just not sure if my love for NYC is strong enough to actually want to live and work as a resident there for 3 years. Also, I am trying to think about where I would get the best IM training, not just fellowship opportunities. I am considering doing second looks at some of these programs to help me figure out what to do. Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated 🙂
 
If you do your IM residency at UTSW, Baylor or UAB, you won't be missing anything regardless of your future plans. And among the 3 I would always vote for UAB.

Could you comment on why you feel so strongly about UAB?

I interviewed there earlier this season and I was so underwhelmed I considered not ranking it.
- Fellowship match list seems lackluster. For example, for its cards match, asides from Cleveland Clinic, many of the places aren't "top" places.
- It's current resident roster has extremely few residents from top 10-20 med schools. Compare to the resident roster of a place like UTSW for example. You can argue whether or not this is a good metric, but in general, the stronger an IM program is, the greater its class composition from top 10-20 med schools.

Also, it's in Birmingham. I guess this one is not an objective reason, but it doesn't seem like a place for singles. Additionally, just based on the dinner and the interaction with the residents, I felt like an overwhelming majority of them were married/engaged.

Edit: This is posted as a throwaway because I am trying to retain anonymity. I am not trying to troll. The cards match is copied below as from the website:
  • UAB
  • University of Houston
  • MUSC
  • University of Kentucky
  • Mayo Clinic, Scottsdale
  • Cleveland Clinic
  • Tulane
  • Wake Forest
  • Emory
  • Dartmouth
  • University of Florida
  • Portland, OR
As for the resident roster, anyone who interviewed should have received a copy of all the current housestaff as well as their originating medical school. A quick comparison with the rosters of Baylor or UTSW should prove my point.
 
Quick question: can anyone explain why everyone seems to hate on Yale? I know it's not in the same tier as UCSF/Brigham/Duke/etc but it seems like people (on SDN particularly) don't think very highly of its IM program. I recently interviewed there and thought it seemed great-- residents happy and not overworked, PD seemed really enthusiastic and receptive to resident input, research opportunities seemed plentiful, and the fellowship match list was awesome (with matches this year to Hopkins and Penn in cardiology, and UCSF in pulm/CC -- my two most likely fellowship choices at this point). Is there something I'm missing?
 
Quick question: can anyone explain why everyone seems to hate on Yale? I know it's not in the same tier as UCSF/Brigham/Duke/etc but it seems like people (on SDN particularly) don't think very highly of its IM program. I recently interviewed there and thought it seemed great-- residents happy and not overworked, PD seemed really enthusiastic and receptive to resident input, research opportunities seemed plentiful, and the fellowship match list was awesome (with matches this year to Hopkins and Penn in cardiology, and UCSF in pulm/CC -- my two most likely fellowship choices at this point). Is there something I'm missing?

There are a few schools that SDN seems to not think too highly of... another is Case Western, which I actually thought was a great program based on my interview day. I say if you liked Yale and everything clicked and your gut is telling you that you'd be happy there, there's no reason you shouldn't rank it highly.
 
Quick question: can anyone explain why everyone seems to hate on Yale? I know it's not in the same tier as UCSF/Brigham/Duke/etc but it seems like people (on SDN particularly) don't think very highly of its IM program. I recently interviewed there and thought it seemed great-- residents happy and not overworked, PD seemed really enthusiastic and receptive to resident input, research opportunities seemed plentiful, and the fellowship match list was awesome (with matches this year to Hopkins and Penn in cardiology, and UCSF in pulm/CC -- my two most likely fellowship choices at this point). Is there something I'm missing?

I agree. Loved Yale. Was going in not expecting to have it ranked within a realistic range to match there. Now I'm not sure where to rank it in my top 5, but it's solidly there. If I had ties at all to New Haven and/or thought it'd be an awesome place to move, it would be top 2. Anyhow, isn't a match list a better measure of a program's fellowship potential than the opinions of people on the internet? I genuinely value what people have to say here, but even they'll admit that you should take their opinion for what it's worth.
 
I agree. Loved Yale. Was going in not expecting to have it ranked within a realistic range to match there. Now I'm not sure where to rank it in my top 5, but it's solidly there. If I had ties at all to New Haven and/or thought it'd be an awesome place to move, it would be top 2. Anyhow, isn't a match list a better measure of a program's fellowship potential than the opinions of people on the internet? I genuinely value what people have to say here, but even they'll admit that you should take their opinion for what it's worth.

Same thoughts going in, and same thoughts after the interview. Awesome place, nice people, great vibe, terrible city. I hadn't planned on going anywhere for a second visit, but I may actually head back to New Haven to scope out areas I'd actually want to live and/or start a family in.
 
Any thoughts on overall resident happiness at UWash vs UCLA vs UCSD? I've heard grumblings from at least 1 resident from each program stating they felt overworked and am wondering how prevalent this is.

I feel like all three programs are fairly "notorious" for working their residents pretty hard. Regardless, it shouldn't matter. You're going to work hard where ever you go.
 
Quick question: can anyone explain why everyone seems to hate on Yale? I know it's not in the same tier as UCSF/Brigham/Duke/etc but it seems like people (on SDN particularly) don't think very highly of its IM program. I recently interviewed there and thought it seemed great-- residents happy and not overworked, PD seemed really enthusiastic and receptive to resident input, research opportunities seemed plentiful, and the fellowship match list was awesome (with matches this year to Hopkins and Penn in cardiology, and UCSF in pulm/CC -- my two most likely fellowship choices at this point). Is there something I'm missing?

No one hates on Yale. We hate on New Haven, and scoff at any attempt to paint Yale at a top 10 program. However, it's a fine program. I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Ever.
 
There are a few schools that SDN seems to not think too highly of... another is Case Western, which I actually thought was a great program based on my interview day. I say if you liked Yale and everything clicked and your gut is telling you that you'd be happy there, there's no reason you shouldn't rank it highly.

Same with Case. No one has ever said it's a bad program.
 
No one hates on Yale. We hate on New Haven, and scoff at any attempt to paint Yale at a top 10 program. However, it's a fine program. I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Ever.
When people ask about Yale it's inevitably lumped in with a list that includes Columbia, BWH, Hopkins, UCSF, Duke, etc and we say "Yale's the "worst" program on that list. And yes...New Haven...uggh.
Same with Case. No one has ever said it's a bad program.
And Case...definitely a Top 3 program in Ohio...which has a lot a programs. Not bad, just not the caliber that people often want to lump it into.

As with all of these things, if you liked a place and think you would fit in well there, then rank it appropriately. Who gives a s*** what anybody else thinks?
 
Having trouble finalizing my the top of my match list -- interested in an academic career in malignant hematology and BMT.

Deciding between Dartmouth, Denver, Utah, UVA, WashU (STL).

Any input would be appreciated
 
Quick question: can anyone explain why everyone seems to hate on Yale? I know it's not in the same tier as UCSF/Brigham/Duke/etc but it seems like people (on SDN particularly) don't think very highly of its IM program. I recently interviewed there and thought it seemed great-- residents happy and not overworked, PD seemed really enthusiastic and receptive to resident input, research opportunities seemed plentiful, and the fellowship match list was awesome (with matches this year to Hopkins and Penn in cardiology, and UCSF in pulm/CC -- my two most likely fellowship choices at this point). Is there something I'm missing?

I did not get a great vibe from my interview day. Residents seemed decent, not overwhelmingly outstanding. New Haven has a bad reputation as a place to live.

They have a top 5 medical school and yet I dont think a single medical student stayed in the program for IM, they all went elsewhere. I took that as a red flag at the time. Still a very strong and respected program, but not on the class of its undergrad and med school.
 
Any thoughts on UPenn vs BIDMC vs UChicago vs UPitt vs Yale especially in terms of someone going for a GI fellowship?

Penn stands out from the list, all are strong programs and will be able to set you up for a career in GI. The rest is up to you.
 
Having trouble finalizing my the top of my match list -- interested in an academic career in malignant hematology and BMT.

Deciding between Dartmouth, Denver, Utah, UVA, WashU (STL).

Any input would be appreciated

Yeah. I think you're going to need to WashU it on this one given the career goals.

Probably Utah next.
 
I know these two programs have been discussed tirelessly on SDN but was curious what some of this year's applicants thought: Cedars-Sinai and CCF. I am just about done wrapping up my interview season and am having trouble interpreting these two programs. Will post my rank list in the other thread shortly for input. I'm hoping to end up in GI

CCF: Interview day was real solid. PD seemed very nice however is leaving. Chief residents seemed very supportive. Didn't at all get the vibe of "fellow run" services and resident coasting that I've seen on here. Seems like the program is making all the right changes in regards to case conferences, schedules, etc. Have very solid GI match results. Plenty of research opportunities and 'bigwigs' for appropriate networking. Ancillary services galore. Great facilities. Only real downside from what I could see is Cleveland.

Cedars: Again interview day was great. PD was very supportive and receptive to changes, residents seemed quite happy. Per the residents seemed like they were busy enough with plenty of procedure exposure. The only see 'rich people/celebs' doesnt seem true at all rather seeing the underserved/VA. Educational conferences seemed ok. Again very solid yearly GI match results with research opportunities and great mentors like in Cleveland. Ancillary services also great. Also great facilities. And SoCal is an obvious plus.

My question is: Am I drinking the kool-aid and missing out on something? Clearly either of these programs do not attract the best of applicants (CCF w/ many DOs/IMG and Cedars w/ mainly mid-tier MD program housestaff) not to say they are not qualified in any way. I am thinking about ranking both of these programs higher than several large university programs. But clearly there is a vibe on sdn that the quality of clinical training at both of these institutions is not the best nor the most rigorous. Could that be changing? Those of you offering advice always come back to the idea of 'whats the right fit for you', should I think the same for these programs as well?
 
I know these two programs have been discussed tirelessly on SDN but was curious what some of this year's applicants thought: Cedars-Sinai and CCF. I am just about done wrapping up my interview season and am having trouble interpreting these two programs. Will post my rank list in the other thread shortly for input. I'm hoping to end up in GI

CCF: Interview day was real solid. PD seemed very nice however is leaving. Chief residents seemed very supportive. Didn't at all get the vibe of "fellow run" services and resident coasting that I've seen on here. Seems like the program is making all the right changes in regards to case conferences, schedules, etc. Have very solid GI match results. Plenty of research opportunities and 'bigwigs' for appropriate networking. Ancillary services galore. Great facilities. Only real downside from what I could see is Cleveland.

Cedars: Again interview day was great. PD was very supportive and receptive to changes, residents seemed quite happy. Per the residents seemed like they were busy enough with plenty of procedure exposure. The only see 'rich people/celebs' doesnt seem true at all rather seeing the underserved/VA. Educational conferences seemed ok. Again very solid yearly GI match results with research opportunities and great mentors like in Cleveland. Ancillary services also great. Also great facilities. And SoCal is an obvious plus.

My question is: Am I drinking the kool-aid and missing out on something? Clearly either of these programs do not attract the best of applicants (CCF w/ many DOs/IMG and Cedars w/ mainly mid-tier MD program housestaff) not to say they are not qualified in any way. I am thinking about ranking both of these programs higher than several large university programs. But clearly there is a vibe on sdn that the quality of clinical training at both of these institutions is not the best nor the most rigorous. Could that be changing? Those of you offering advice always come back to the idea of 'whats the right fit for you', should I think the same for these programs as well?

Although I was never interested in these two program for IM residency, if I have to choose I'll pick CCF especially if you are going for a competitive fellowship. Even with all the hype on CCF being a fellow-run program....etc it still opens wide doors to all fellowships which Cedars doesn't equally do. I'm not saying CCF is a great IM residency program and I agree that it doesn't attract the best. I'm doing residency in a program that is somewhat close to Cleveland, and I can tell you all med students here who plan to live in the Midwest and Ohio in particular prefer to go to OSU, Case Western or U of Cincinnati than going to CCF because of all the negative vibe (which I don't know how much of it is true).
 
Hey! I would appreciate any thoughts on Vandy vs WashU vs Cornell?

Vandy & WashU a bit ahead of Cornell reputation-wise, but Cornell may be the most competitive of the 3 due to location. Choosing from 3 excellent options, though, and very different places to live, so personal preference from that side should maybe trump all.
 
I only interviewed at one of those programs so can't comment specifically. But, to address the bolded above, if you didn't hear this at every single program where you interviewed, then you didn't talk to enough residents. Or you went to somewhere like Mayo, Columbia or Hopkins where the Kool-Aid (and the beatings) are remarkably strong.

Any program where ~5% of the residents don't say "this place is so easy it's a joke" and another ~5% don't say "I'm getting killed, this place is so malignant" is probably best avoided.

Agree in full.
 
Any thoughts on the relative strengths of Stanford vs. Penn?

Great choices each. Some talk of Stanford being too cush, but I believe that is an old reputation & not true for some time. Clearly considered top-tier programs by fellowships, as both have great fellowship lists. I liked residents at both, though seemed slightly more enthusiastic at Stanford. Totally different areas of the country & lifestyle, and given how similar they are otherwise, I would choose by where you would rather live.
 
Any thoughts about Emory IM program? Seems to have the largest housestaff program in the country with 87 PG1 spots. Any huge disadvantage to going to such a large program? http://medicine.emory.edu/education/residency/our-program/13-14-housestaff
I went to the preinterview dinner, spoke with the residents, but still did not leave with a clear picture of the program. The PD seems like a nice guy, but I did not quite connect with him. My impression is that he has the resident's back but is a stern and formal person who shows less emotion than the average PD.

All depends what you are comparing them to, but I agree that the program is too large for its own good & you are at a bit of risk of being a number among many than an individual. Still has a solid reputation, though, so it really does depend on the competition.
 
Any program where ~5% of the residents don't say "this place is so easy it's a joke" and another ~5% don't say "I'm getting killed, this place is so malignant" is probably best avoided.

i disagree with this. i think you can find at least 1 person at every program who will complain about being overworked. we've all gone through med school and know how much certain people LOVE to complain. that won't stop during residency. there are people who will complain no matter where they are or what they're doing....it's just their personality. if you do hear that about a program though you should seek out and talk as many more residents as you can to see if that sentiment is prevalent. there are outliers everywhere
 
I hear a Cornell resident is leaving for Yale due to bad experiences--does anyone know what happened?
 
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^ I'd like to hear about that as well.

Also, what do you guys think about Duke? Do they go over duty hour limits frequently?
 
-- Jefferson --


Can anyone (current residents or people who recently interviewed there) give their opinion on the place?

My impression from interview day is that they present a lot of the positives of the program (obviously) but the glaring negatives seemed to get shoved under the rug and not really explained in detail. I felt more "deception" from them than other places I visited:

1) They have 14 patient cap per intern (Have not seen anything close to that on other interviews - 10 seems to be the norm)

2) Many private attendings, up to 3-4 attendings that your team's patients fall under... (makes me question the teaching environment on rounds)


I didn't get a good sense of how those factors effect the residents. Does it make for a poor learning experience? Any comments appreciated!
 
Probably not directly. UTSW has the same thing. 1 intern + 1 resident cover 14 patients....2 interns 20 patients.
 
-- Jefferson --


Can anyone (current residents or people who recently interviewed there) give their opinion on the place?

My impression from interview day is that they present a lot of the positives of the program (obviously) but the glaring negatives seemed to get shoved under the rug and not really explained in detail. I felt more "deception" from them than other places I visited:

1) They have 14 patient cap per intern (Have not seen anything close to that on other interviews - 10 seems to be the norm)

2) Many private attendings, up to 3-4 attendings that your team's patients fall under... (makes me question the teaching environment on rounds)


I didn't get a good sense of how those factors effect the residents. Does it make for a poor learning experience? Any comments appreciated!

I interviewed at Jefferson as well. What I understood was that the intern cap was 10 and that any patients over that would be fully covered by the resident.
 
10+X where the intern gets 10 and the senior gets X is a fairly typical setup.

Of course, the likelihood of the senior picking up X ranges from "bitch please" to "bwah, hah, hah, hah...oh man...you crazy...pass the bong".
 
Hmm. I guess I always picked up slack when I was supervising maybe it was just the culture of where I trained. If the service was me and an intern I'd carry about 1/3. When I was supervising a two intern team Id pick up if we were struggling. If we had an extra off service intern from psych and were running a 3 intern team, they could find me watch sports center right up until rounds started in the morning.

What really concerns me about the post regarding Jeff is the private attendings. I think traininees should run from any place that makes you see private attending patients like the plague.
 
What really concerns me about the post regarding Jeff is the private attendings. I think traininees should run from any place that makes you see private attending patients like the plague.

Why should people avoid private attendings?
 
Why should people avoid private attendings?

Moral hazard. They have zero incentive to teach or not scut you out. You are literally their bitch. Some could be decent enough but most are just billing for work YOU are doing and as long as you are doing the work and not them it works out well for them.
 
10+X where the intern gets 10 and the senior gets X is a fairly typical setup.

Of course, the likelihood of the senior picking up X ranges from "bitch please" to "bwah, hah, hah, hah...oh man...you crazy...pass the bong".

Agree. At my institution the 10+X is applied all the time. When the interns were fairly new and inefficient I sometimes even made it 8+X. And the X means that I cover my patients from A to Z. The intern doesn't have to do anything with them. Other seniors would "see" the X patients but make the intern do all the crappy work for them.
 
What do you guys think of WashU?
How are the PD and the Chair? Are they supportive?
Does anyone think its malignant? How is the atmosphere?
How is the work load?
If Im interested in Cards, do you think finding research and faculty support will be difficult?
If I dont do a chief year, will I still be able to match well?
How is living St Louis?
 
Unless there is a particular mentor and/or area of research at Stanford you want to work with, then everything else being equal, Penn is much more bang for your buck.

Thanks for the input. I have heard that Penn has a better national reputation, although I'm not sure why. For cardiology, their fellowship match lists are actually pretty comparable. Stanford residents also seemed much happier. What do you think I would get at Penn that I wouldn't be able to get at Stanford in preparation for an academic career?
 
What do you guys think of WashU?
How are the PD and the Chair? Are they supportive?
Does anyone think its malignant? How is the atmosphere?
How is the work load?
If Im interested in Cards, do you think finding research and faculty support will be difficult?
If I dont do a chief year, will I still be able to match well?
How is living St Louis?

Calm down, big fella! Do you need to do a chief year to be competitive? Seriously?

Wash U is well respected, though not in the very top tier of programs and therefore in Cardiology match lists. They mainly suffer because many people don't want to live in St Louis, so they don't match as competitively as they would otherwise. But a solid place, and as long as you do well, doors will be open.
 
Moral hazard. They have zero incentive to teach or not scut you out. You are literally their bitch. Some could be decent enough but most are just billing for work YOU are doing and as long as you are doing the work and not them it works out well for them.

So true. Programs had an excuse to ditch private attendings a few years ago with the new work hour restrictions. Any place that didn't tells you all you need to know when it comes to the priority they place on education.
 
Thanks for the input. I have heard that Penn has a better national reputation, although I'm not sure why. For cardiology, their fellowship match lists are actually pretty comparable. Stanford residents also seemed much happier. What do you think I would get at Penn that I wouldn't be able to get at Stanford in preparation for an academic career?
At least in 2014, there is no meaningful difference in their national reputation. We can all debate our biases, but nothing tells the story better than the fellowship match, at least in the subspecialty of your interest. Stanford has had as good a match in Cardiology as anywhere in the country the last few years, if anything a hair better than Penn. They also have one of the big names in the country in Cardiology as their Dept chair. I agree with your assessment on the happiness of the residents too.

Go with wherever you liked best & taking into account where you want to live.
 
What do you guys think of WashU?
How are the PD and the Chair? Are they supportive?
Does anyone think its malignant? How is the atmosphere?
How is the work load?
If Im interested in Cards, do you think finding research and faculty support will be difficult?
If I dont do a chief year, will I still be able to match well?
How is living St Louis?

At least in 2014, there is no meaningful difference in their national reputation. We can all debate our biases, but nothing tells the story better than the fellowship match, at least in the subspecialty of your interest. Stanford has had as good a match in Cardiology as anywhere in the country the last few years, if anything a hair better than Penn. They also have one of the big names in the country in Cardiology as their Dept chair. I agree with your assessment on the happiness of the residents too.

Go with wherever you liked best & taking into account where you want to live.

If you go to a top 3 program you're guaranteed to be America's most prestigious doctor pursuing a fellowship in interventional moneymaking at MGH, but if you go to the 4th best program, in 3 years you'll be sucking dick for taxi rides and then walking home.
 
Thanks for the input. I have heard that Penn has a better national reputation, although I'm not sure why. For cardiology, their fellowship match lists are actually pretty comparable. Stanford residents also seemed much happier. What do you think I would get at Penn that I wouldn't be able to get at Stanford in preparation for an academic career?

Why? Because they are Penn. And I would say the strength of an institution - and I know this will be really, really, really hard for some of you wrap your mind around - but there is much more to factor in than cardiology fellowship matches. Fellowship matches by themselves are not as good an indicator as you might think because it varies much from year to year how many people do apply and where they want to apply. When most of you animals looks at match lists and then compare you make the incorrect assumption that because not many people matched at CCF, Mayo, or Duke for cards that this means that the places can't march someone there. This is largely horse**** sloppy thinking. It probably means that people in the last few years from that program had their reasons for NOT wanting to go to those places, location, family, mentors, research interests may have no coincided.

So ultimately are you going to not be able to match to the exact same places from Sanford as Penn? No. But that's not where Im coming from. And you did ask for anonymous opinions on a web forum and it my opinion but Penn's clinical training simply has a reputation for being rather rigorous so. Between name brand and what I think will be better clinical training Penn wins in my mind. It's not magic. It's not that nuanced. If you want us all to cosign a Stanford rank above Penn then don't ask the question. If you already have ranked the way you like? Great. We always so go with your gut. But you're not going to convince me my opinion on this one is wrong.

Good luck.
 
If you go to a top 3 program you're guaranteed to be America's most prestigious doctor pursuing a fellowship in interventional moneymaking at MGH, but if you go to the 4th best program, in 3 years you'll be sucking dick for taxi rides and then walking home.

I kind of think this is the best thing I've read in a long, long time. I may have to change my sig.
 
Why? Because they are Penn. And I would say the strength of an institution - and I know this will be really, really, really hard for some of you wrap your mind around - but there is much more to factor in than cardiology fellowship matches. Fellowship matches by themselves are not as good an indicator as you might think because it varies much from year to year how many people do apply and where they want to apply. When most of you animals looks at match lists and then compare you make the incorrect assumption that because not many people matched at CCF, Mayo, or Duke for cards that this means that the places can't march someone there. This is largely horse**** sloppy thinking. It probably means that people in the last few years from that program had their reasons for NOT wanting to go to those places, location, family, mentors, research interests may have no coincided.

So ultimately are you going to not be able to match to the exact same places from Sanford as Penn? No. But that's not where Im coming from. And you did ask for anonymous opinions on a web forum and it my opinion but Penn's clinical training simply has a reputation for being rather rigorous so. Between name brand and what I think will be better clinical training Penn wins in my mind. It's not magic. It's not that nuanced. If you want us all to cosign a Stanford rank above Penn then don't ask the question. If you already have ranked the way you like? Great. We always so go with your gut. But you're not going to convince me my opinion on this one is wrong.

Good luck.

Agree with above.

Residency applicants, please understand that applying for fellowship is different from applying for residency. In fellowship match, not all applicants go to THE BEST place they can match at (much much much more than in IM residency). Applicants are older, have more family ties, location and weather preference, going back to home state ideas, more specific research interests....etc. That's why looking at a certain program's fellowship rates is useless. If applicants from a program never matched into cardiology in decent places in the last 5-6 years, then YES that's a good indicator. But comparing top programs in the country and looking at their Cardiology fellowship placement in 2013 and making stupid assumptions is just ridiculous. If you are looking at a top program match list and you don't like their Cardiology fellowship placement in the last match, that just means that people from that class had certain preferences that you don't know about. It doesn't mean that they couldn't get better places. This strategy is only used when looking at mid-tier programs that you are worried about their fellowship placement not the top 20 places. Please stop embarrassing yourselves.
 
Agree with above.

Residency applicants, please understand that applying for fellowship is different from applying for residency. In fellowship match, not all applicants go to THE BEST place they can match at (much much much more than in IM residency). Applicants are older, have more family ties, location and weather preference, going back to home state ideas, more specific research interests....etc. That's why looking at a certain program's fellowship rates is useless. If applicants from a program never matched into cardiology in decent places in the last 5-6 years, then YES that's a good indicator. But comparing top programs in the country and looking at their Cardiology fellowship placement in 2013 and making stupid assumptions is just ridiculous. If you are looking at a top program match list and you don't like their Cardiology fellowship placement in the last match, that just means that people from that class had certain preferences that you don't know about. It doesn't mean that they couldn't get better places. This strategy is only used when looking at mid-tier programs that you are worried about their fellowship placement not the top 20 places. Please stop embarrassing yourselves.

I simply disagree. If we're talking about a sample size of 2-3 people, of course that is true. If you are talking about Cardiology fellowship applications from big name programs (typically 5-10 applicants per year) and you have data over 4-5 years, that is very meaningful. Of course a given individual can have factors which keep him/her restricted to a certain part of the country, but that doesn't change that it is very meaningful to see how competitive actual residents from a program have been at top-tier Cardiology programs when you're dealing with an n of 25-40 people from each residency program.

That is very real, very meaningful data. It tells you more about what a program's present-day reputation is among other academic institutions than any other data, at least within a given subspecialty.
 
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