RANT HERE thread

[that redhead]

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Over the last week while walking/hiking with my dog, we've been run up to by THREE dogs barking/growling/hackles up- two were dogs in the neighborhood that were just free in their yards and today was another hiker's dog off-leash who ran up to us.

My dog is ALWAYS leashed anytime he goes outside of my fully fenced yard, no exceptions. He is a friendly dog, he loves people and other dogs, and I know that while any animal can be provoked to bite, he would be the last one to do so. He's almost two so I'm sure he's an annoying face-licker or whatever young annoying animals do to irritate their elders but he's on a LEASH so that he doesn't run up and piss other dogs off trying to play or say hi. So when YOUR dog runs up and starts snarling and you don't even put a mf leash on him at that point and give a half-hearted "sorry" as I carry my dog away from yours....GAH 😡

And the thing is, I don't know what to do about it. I don't want a building anxiety at meeting other dogs while walking to transfer to my dog and make him anxious about it too. All I can figure is to teach him something like "leave it" or "let's go" to indicate we just keep walking and don't pull at the leash and wag our tails and try to be like, a well-adjusted friendly dog. But I get so freaking angry at other people with their dogs just running loose.

 

[Coquette22]

We are smack in the middle of a leptospirosis outbreak. Old, young, vaccinated, non-vaccinated... The emergency clinics are overrun. And it just doesn't seem to slow down.

 

[cdo96]

Yeah, it went about as predictably badly as I was expecting. Ugh.

Onto the next thing, I'spose.

🙁 sorry to hear that.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Histo/Phys is kicking my butt..I feel like I understand the material and am fairly confident on the exam (multiple choice which seems to be killing me) until I end up failing the exam and get down on myself. Anyone have any suggestions because I'll try anything at this point. T-minus two weeks until the last exam before the final and I NEED to get a good grade or I'm failing the class :'(

I posted some helpful histo links in the class of 2021 thread yesterday! Definitely go talk to your professor if you haven't already, get a tutor if your school offers them, and reach out to classmates to get study help. Look over your previous exams if possible and see why you're missing points. For instance if you tend to have the correct answer and switch it to an incorrect one, quit changing your answers (unless you KNOW the first one was wrong) and go with your gut!

 

[Ashgirl]

A bit of a sleep deprived rant so please don't quote in case I decide to delete later...

I am really, really, really tired of being treated like my own physical and mental well-being don't matter. I hate that trying to get as little as a 1 hour break to go home and take care of my dog after I was there for ungodly hours is considered "weak" and that I should just "suck it up."

I hate this mentality that seems rampant in our career so much.

 

[LetItSnow]

[stuff]

What sucks is that the mentality continues to be prevalent out in the workplace, too. Not just school.

We're so good at talking about work/life balance, emotional health, etc. But putting it into practice? There are some awesome hospitals/clinics, but as an overall profession we just SUCK at it.

I'm constantly struck by the irony that we claim to be health experts, but we can't even take care of our own health.

 

[SkiOtter]

What sucks

(ps she said not to quote)

 

[LetItSnow]

(ps she said not to quote)

Oops. Skipped right past that. Thanks! Next time, though, PM. More likely to see it quickly; I easily miss being quoted.

Sorry Ash!

 

[LetItSnow]

(FWIW, don't delete it Ash. We need to talk about this kinda crap in vet med! You're not alone!)

 

[Gwenevre]

I'm sorry that there's people around you who are complete doo doo heads. Especially if you're taking your break to take care of your animals (because God forbid you do that as a veterinarian). No advice, but I'm here if you need to vent in PM

 

[Ashgirl]

What sucks is that the mentality continues to be prevalent out in the workplace, too. Not just school.

We're so good at talking about work/life balance, emotional health, etc. But putting it into practice? There are some awesome hospitals/clinics, but as an overall profession we just SUCK at it.

I'm constantly struck by the irony that we claim to be health experts, but we can't even take care of our own health.

I completely agree.

And what makes it worse (at least in school), is the mentality of "Look, I did this, it was awful, so you need to do the exact same thing too even though we could have made it better for you. Suck it up." And I think that is such a crap way to go about educating and treating students. And it's dangerous, for those out there who are struggling in one way or another to think that there isn't a better way or that if only they "suck it up" everything will be better and sunshine and rainbows...

It's like they want the next generation to be as broken and nonchalant about mental and physical health as they are...

 

[nohika]

I completely agree.

And what makes it worse (at least in school), is the mentality of "Look, I did this, it was awful, so you need to do the exact same thing too even though we could have made it better for you. Suck it up." And I think that is such a crap way to go about educating and treating students. And it's dangerous, for those out there who are struggling in one way or another to think that there isn't a better way or that if only they "suck it up" everything will be better and sunshine and rainbows...

It's like they want the next generation to be as broken and nonchalant about mental and physical health as they are...

What sucks too is that this mentality is pretty much pervasive in all types of grad school - especially PhD programs (and hell, for sure in academia). It’s overall a problem with society in general and how they view ‘hard work’ and the ‘sacrifices’ you have to make, especially at a higher level. We live in a society that applauds people who do incredibly unreasonable things, whereas we frown at people who insist on proper work/life balance (thus at least partially why ‘normal People’ hate that vets aren’t doing everything for free because ‘WHY ARE YOU NOT WORKING HARD FOR ME YOU LOVE AMINALS’).

It’s why most of this country needs therapy. 😛

 

[Ashgirl]

I'm sorry that there's people around you who are complete doo doo heads. Especially if you're taking your break to take care of your animals (because God forbid you do that as a veterinarian). No advice, but I'm here if you need to vent in PM

Thanks Gwen. Honestly, I can deal with me being sleep deprived and zombie-like (for the most part), but the fact that they scoffed and made me feel guilty for trying to go home to feed let my dog out who has been without food/possibly water and holding it for way way way longer than she should have to... it's just awful.

 

[Trilt]

Thanks Gwen. Honestly, I can deal with me being sleep deprived and zombie-like (for the most part), but the fact that they scoffed and made me feel guilty for trying to go home to feed let my dog out who has been without food/possibly water and holding it for way way way longer than she should have to... it's just awful.

And this is where the problem is.

Most people who have made it to this point in vet school know how to work hard. We know when it's busy, it's busy, and you get **** done and work hard and if lunch is an afterthought, OK, whatever, that happens. But it should happen for emergencies. It shouldn't be assumed. Because that's a stupid way to run lives.

What makes it ridiculous - in school at least - is how much of the work is manufactured ****ing bull****. Why don't we have templates for common surgeries that are PROVIDED to students for surgery reports; not you hunting them down in old files? Why do I have to update a stupid SOAP (and print it out, and get it signed, and whathaveyou) when literally nothing has changed; could this not just become a paragraph below on a digital file? Why do we dick around for hours waiting for rounds with a specific person, or for a client to discharge on a Saturday morning, or calling in eighteen departments, or any of the bajillions of idiotic things that happens at the school. It doesn't have to be that way, and there's a reason I got my ass out of the school on externships every single chance I could. Because hanging out at the school and in that stupid inefficient toxic wasteland just pissed me off.

It is ridiculous to revel in suffering. Like, someone being at the school for 19 hours yesterday wasn't a good thing, and I hate that we have this stupid culture where it's something to be proud of. That taking breaks or time for self care is failing. People can learn while still getting, you know, sleep. And keeping up hobbies. And living a life (and not having to be one of those ridiculous superhumans that seems to be able to do this on top of 16hr days). And we should be striving for better, because that's what humans are supposed to do. Not maintaining a stupid status quo where you walk on others just because you were walked on.

The only intern I distinctly remember from my clinical year was not because she knew all the answers, or was the smartest or most efficient or whatever. It's because when she saw people drowning, she said, "that's OK" and was kind. She was voted intern of the year. She matched straight into a surgery residency. I hope she is doing well because she was a delightful beam of light in a ****hole.

And I'm going to stop ranting, but man I have a problem with the way we train people. And I know the demeanor goes out into private practices, too, and it is so stupid toxic and self-destructive.

We should be better than "the strongest will survive" by now. And we're not. Despite a whole lot of lip service.

 

[Skimble]

I remember the manager and another employee where I used to work (whom I'm friends with) said one day that missing work due to a stomach virus wasn't a good excuse. So what you puked, get it out, then come into work. I told them flat out, if I puke (due to illness, not excess drinking), I'm not coming in, and if they do, then please stay FAR away from me because I don't want to get it.

 

[Doctor-S]

Last week, one of my residents was dealing with a veterinary issue related to her cat (feline cystitis).

A few days ago, she asked for some time off to tend to her ailing cat. She just wanted a few extra hours off to make sure her cat was comfortable.

Say no more ... I understood ... and promptly encouraged her to return home to care for her cat.

My resident did not have to justify her request; and she did not have to be stoic, and she did not have to plead her case to anyone.

As far as I am concerned, my resident was taking care of the most important living being in the world at that time: her own cat.

I've done the same thing.

When my resident returned to work a few hours later, she was a new person.

 

[KCgophervet]

I think I may be immune to some of this because I gave zero ****s about taking time for self care.

I started my new job and if I had time, and needed lunch, I would go to the cafeteria across the street and sit down and have lunch there. A month into it, our director came into the resident office and was chatting with us (super nice guy) and my resident mate (2nd year) asked him how he felt about if she were to take lunches not in the office (aka eat at a restaurant or cafeteria or go run an errand or work out at the gym over lunch etc). He was 100% positive and told her to feel free if she had the time.

Meanwhile I'm sitting there kind of shocked because I'd already assumed that it'd be fine. Glad it was/is fine but I'd had no idea the reason my resident-mate always ate lunch in the office was because she thought she had to.

 

[Ashgirl]

And this is where the problem is.

Most people who have made it to this point in vet school know how to work hard. We know when it's busy, it's busy, and you get **** done and work hard and if lunch is an afterthought, OK, whatever, that happens. But it should happen for emergencies. It shouldn't be assumed. Because that's a stupid way to run lives.

What makes it ridiculous - in school at least - is how much of the work is manufactured ****ing bull****. Why don't we have templates for common surgeries that are PROVIDED to students for surgery reports; not you hunting them down in old files? Why do I have to update a stupid SOAP (and print it out, and get it signed, and whathaveyou) when literally nothing has changed; could this not just become a paragraph below on a digital file? Why do we dick around for hours waiting for rounds with a specific person, or for a client to discharge on a Saturday morning, or calling in eighteen departments, or any of the bajillions of idiotic things that happens at the school. It doesn't have to be that way, and there's a reason I got my ass out of the school on externships every single chance I could. Because hanging out at the school and in that stupid inefficient toxic wasteland just pissed me off.

It is ridiculous to revel in suffering. Like, someone being at the school for 19 hours yesterday wasn't a good thing, and I hate that we have this stupid culture where it's something to be proud of. That taking breaks or time for self care is failing. People can learn while still getting, you know, sleep. And keeping up hobbies. And living a life (and not having to be one of those ridiculous superhumans that seems to be able to do this on top of 16hr days). And we should be striving for better, because that's what humans are supposed to do. Not maintaining a stupid status quo where you walk on others just because you were walked on.

The only intern I distinctly remember from my clinical year was not because she knew all the answers, or was the smartest or most efficient or whatever. It's because when she saw people drowning, she said, "that's OK" and was kind. She was voted intern of the year. She matched straight into a surgery residency. I hope she is doing well because she was a delightful beam of light in a ****hole.

And I'm going to stop ranting, but man I have a problem with the way we train people. And I know the demeanor goes out into private practices, too, and it is so stupid toxic and self-destructive.

We should be better than "the strongest will survive" by now. And we're not. Despite a whole lot of lip service.

This is all so flipping true.. It really ticks me off when one of us goes to these rotation reviews and say constructive things like "I don't understand why we are required to do extra duty X, it takes time away from studying, sleeping, and learning and offers NO educational value to us and we aren't even needed when we have to do it," and then they say "Well we know how useless it is, but we did this too, so you guys gotta pay your dues.." WHAT?!? I'm pretty sure me paying 40K+ a year and sacrificing sleep and physical and mental well-being is "dues" enough.

I am convinced that just because this is the way it always was, doesn't mean we can't change it for the better and have just as good (if not better!!) results. You don't need to be beaten into submission to be a competent and hardworking veterinarian.

 

[DVMDream]

And this is where the problem is.

Most people who have made it to this point in vet school know how to work hard. We know when it's busy, it's busy, and you get **** done and work hard and if lunch is an afterthought, OK, whatever, that happens. But it should happen for emergencies. It shouldn't be assumed. Because that's a stupid way to run lives.

What makes it ridiculous - in school at least - is how much of the work is manufactured ****ing bull****. Why don't we have templates for common surgeries that are PROVIDED to students for surgery reports; not you hunting them down in old files? Why do I have to update a stupid SOAP (and print it out, and get it signed, and whathaveyou) when literally nothing has changed; could this not just become a paragraph below on a digital file? Why do we dick around for hours waiting for rounds with a specific person, or for a client to discharge on a Saturday morning, or calling in eighteen departments, or any of the bajillions of idiotic things that happens at the school. It doesn't have to be that way, and there's a reason I got my ass out of the school on externships every single chance I could. Because hanging out at the school and in that stupid inefficient toxic wasteland just pissed me off.

It is ridiculous to revel in suffering. Like, someone being at the school for 19 hours yesterday wasn't a good thing, and I hate that we have this stupid culture where it's something to be proud of. That taking breaks or time for self care is failing. People can learn while still getting, you know, sleep. And keeping up hobbies. And living a life (and not having to be one of those ridiculous superhumans that seems to be able to do this on top of 16hr days). And we should be striving for better, because that's what humans are supposed to do. Not maintaining a stupid status quo where you walk on others just because you were walked on.

The only intern I distinctly remember from my clinical year was not because she knew all the answers, or was the smartest or most efficient or whatever. It's because when she saw people drowning, she said, "that's OK" and was kind. She was voted intern of the year. She matched straight into a surgery residency. I hope she is doing well because she was a delightful beam of light in a ****hole.

And I'm going to stop ranting, but man I have a problem with the way we train people. And I know the demeanor goes out into private practices, too, and it is so stupid toxic and self-destructive.

We should be better than "the strongest will survive" by now. And we're not. Despite a whole lot of lip service.

Templated surgery reports? Oh **** no, we had to create those from scratch on our own. The damn effing updating the SOAP every single day when nothing has changed was so incredibly frustrating and annoying. I hated the waiting for rounds... I **** you not, there was more than once on surgery rotation where we would be done with all surgeries by 2PM and we would be in the rounds room doing jack crap while the clinicians and residents were off doing who knows what for them to come sauntering in around 5-7PM to "round" us for 1-2 hours... like **** you. Seriously. I want to go home, they should want to go home. I could never understand it. Then the icing on the cake is when you get your "review" for the rotation and they pull some stupid **** about how you didn't take enough cases and you should be "more involved"... ok bitch, there were 9 surgical cases over 2 weeks- 1 was an emergency when I was on-call and 1 was an emergency when another student was on call. So 7 surgeries to be divided among 8 ****ing students... and I took 2 of those. Two, including the one I got while on-call-- so 3 surgeries out of 9 cases you can go **** to all hell with that BS. I can't make more cases materialize.

Then there was the time that I was being yelled at for the decision that one of the residents made in moving a patient to a different area of the hospital. Got yelled at by an ICU tech... I am finally said, "look, I am worth about as much or less than the dog **** on your shoe, if you have an issue with what the resident TOLD ME to do then you can take it up with him."

Yeah, I could go on forever. Really.

 

[DVMDream]

Oh and the fact that it doesn't get any better once you get out to the "real world" is just.... icing on the **** cake.

I have had receptionists blink in disbelief that I would actually want to go to lunch. Techs wonder why I am annoyed to be staying late. Receptionists/Techs just not care what they schedule at night or before close because they "won't be there" (and yes, they have stated exactly that).

And what is worse, is management actually allows and encourages it. Add on the client beating and crappy ways that clients treat us, especially when management or the clinic owners support the ****-tastic behavior of the client.

Seriously this profession is ****ed.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Oh and the fact that it doesn't get any better once you get out to the "real world" is just.... icing on the **** cake.

I have had receptionists blink in disbelief that I would actually want to go to lunch. Techs wonder why I am annoyed to be staying late. Receptionists/Techs just not care what they schedule at night or before close because they "won't be there" (and yes, they have stated exactly that).

And what is worse, is management actually allows and encourages it. Add on the client beating and crappy ways that clients treat us, especially when management or the clinic owners support the ****-tastic behavior of the client.

Seriously this profession is ****ed.

My first clinic worked exactly opposite of that. The techs and receptionists would try to space out the vet's appts and during holidays and such would schedule the last appointment early to build in time to help our vet get done on time. She would still talk to fill in the space until she was running behind again. She would add surgeries on at the end of the day, and the techs were just expected to stay. We (started at) worked for a dollar over minimum wage and would get there at 6, vet there at 8. We couldn't leave until the clinic was clean so she would schedule surgeries and emergencies and quick checks until 7-9 pm. I would be at work from 6am to 10 pm every week day and alternate Saturdays for 7 months straight!

And yup, even as the first job, it was drilled in that that is just what we do in this profession.

 

[DVMDream]

My first clinic worked exactly opposite of that. The techs and receptionists would try to space out the vet's appts and during holidays and such would schedule the last appointment early to build in time to help our vet get done on time. She would still talk to fill in the space until she was running behind again. She would add surgeries on at the end of the day, and the techs were just expected to stay. We (started at) worked for a dollar over minimum wage and would get there at 6, vet there at 8. We couldn't leave until the clinic was clean so she would schedule surgeries and emergencies and quick checks until 7-9 pm. I would be at work from 6am to 10 pm every week day and alternate Saturdays for 7 months straight!

And yup, even as the first job, it was drilled in that that is just what we do in this profession.

Yeah, no. There is no reason that people should be working 7-8 or 9PM multiple days in a row. Just no. It isn't healthy. It is draining. I could maybe do it if it were 3 days a week. But at 4-5 or more days, I was so over that schedule. Add-in that most of the last minute "fit in" crap was the "my dog/cat has been doing xyz for 10 moths and NOW I must be seen" and the management is all... fit them in, umm, how about NO? NO! You have waited 10 months it can wait 12 hours more and if it can't, go to emergency.

I think a lot of places are worried about saying "no". But no is a full and complete sentence. No, I will not fill your medication instantaneously because you walked in with an empty bottle and demand it to be refilled. No, I will not see your dog who has had an ear infection for 4 months at 10 minutes to close. No, you should not bring your dog who has been vomiting and not eating for 3 days to us in the 15 minutes before close, go to an ER. No, bringing your dog with seizures in 5 minutes before close does not mean that you are going to get full diagnostics and hospitalization, no we can not "just have someone stay overnight" because you don't want to go to the emergency clinic. No, you can not curse out my receptionist and techs, treat me great and then expect me to not say something about treating the support staff decently. No, you will act like an entitled bitch. But finding a clinic/management that will back you up on some of these, can be difficult.

 

[allieh8607]

I'm so glad that so many of my own sentiments are echoed here regarding clinical year and the culture of veterinary medicine as it stands. I thought my time on the island at Ross, away from my family and fiance, was going to be the hardest time of my life but clinics take the cake by a landslide. And everyone said "Oh you're going to work harder than you've ever worked, but it's a GOOD kind of busy!" Yeah, right. I finished clinics in April and I'm still digging my mental health out of the hole it got buried in last year. So much so that I had crippling anxiety over even just looking at jobs until maybe early September, and I'm just about ready to sign a contract this weekend. When they sat us down in clinics in January and said "You should have applied to at least 3 jobs by now" I literally thought I might puke. My classmates may judge me for waiting so long to find a job but the last three or so months have been AMAZING and so renewing. It helps that I got married in July and am so fortunate to have a husband with a decent salary to support me taking time off (or rather, delaying my start time). I'm finally to a point where I feel like my mental health can take a minor beating again and it won't be the end of me.

 

[Trilt]

I'm so glad that so many of my own sentiments are echoed here regarding clinical year and the culture of veterinary medicine as it stands. I thought my time on the island at Ross, away from my family and fiance, was going to be the hardest time of my life but clinics take the cake by a landslide. And everyone said "Oh you're going to work harder than you've ever worked, but it's a GOOD kind of busy!" Yeah, right. I finished clinics in April and I'm still digging my mental health out of the hole it got buried in last year. So much so that I had crippling anxiety over even just looking at jobs until maybe early September, and I'm just about ready to sign a contract this weekend. When they sat us down in clinics in January and said "You should have applied to at least 3 jobs by now" I literally thought I might puke. My classmates may judge me for waiting so long to find a job but the last three or so months have been AMAZING and so renewing. It helps that I got married in July and am so fortunate to have a husband with a decent salary to support me taking time off (or rather, delaying my start time). I'm finally to a point where I feel like my mental health can take a minor beating again and it won't be the end of me.

I took a couple months and visited family and vegged. Didn't really start job searching till, like, July I think? Started my job mid August. It was great. Would recommend.

 

[DVMDream]

I'm so glad that so many of my own sentiments are echoed here regarding clinical year and the culture of veterinary medicine as it stands. I thought my time on the island at Ross, away from my family and fiance, was going to be the hardest time of my life but clinics take the cake by a landslide. And everyone said "Oh you're going to work harder than you've ever worked, but it's a GOOD kind of busy!" Yeah, right. I finished clinics in April and I'm still digging my mental health out of the hole it got buried in last year. So much so that I had crippling anxiety over even just looking at jobs until maybe early September, and I'm just about ready to sign a contract this weekend. When they sat us down in clinics in January and said "You should have applied to at least 3 jobs by now" I literally thought I might puke. My classmates may judge me for waiting so long to find a job but the last three or so months have been AMAZING and so renewing. It helps that I got married in July and am so fortunate to have a husband with a decent salary to support me taking time off (or rather, delaying my start time). I'm finally to a point where I feel like my mental health can take a minor beating again and it won't be the end of me.

I took off the last 2 months of final year. Put all my vacation rotations at the end. So I was done early-mid March. I had a job already at that point but I was off from March to June. Best decision ever. When I mentioned this to someone in my class she actually said, "well, you can't start working early". I told her I didn't want to. So she was all upset over "well, what are you going to DO, then?" Um, sleep, eat delicious food, sleep, sleep, vacay, sleep some more, did I mention sleep? She was all... "I could never NOT have something to do." Totally aghast that I would dare take off 3 months between stopping clinics and working. Granted this was early on during rotations, maybe she changed her tune towards the end, but she was on a freight train to burn out. I mean, how dare anyone take time off??

 

[Trilt]

We're all a bunch of slackers obvs.

I never got any push back. Actually had a couple friends who said they wished they could have taken time, too. But I also didn't ask people's opinions. 😉

 

[DVMDream]

We're all a bunch of slackers obvs.

I never got any push back. Actually had a couple friends who said they wished they could have taken time, too. But I also didn't ask people's opinions. 😉

LOL, didn't ask this person her opinion... she was very happy to tell me about her disgust without any asking.

I did have a lot of people that were super jealous and wished they had taken off the last few rotations too once they saw me leave in March. 🙂

 

[pp9]

I swear, one of my biggest expenses is new iphone charging cables. My rabbit keeps chewing them (yes, mostly my fault, but he has also gotten really good at doing bad things secretly/breaking out of his cage...). I bought an expensive metal encased one to prevent that, which it did, but it died of natural causes anyways. womp.

 

[Skimble]

I swear, one of my biggest expenses is new iphone charging cables. My rabbit keeps chewing them (yes, mostly my fault, but he has also gotten really good at doing bad things secretly/breaking out of his cage...). I bought an expensive metal encased one to prevent that, which it did, but it died of natural causes anyways. womp.

Aquarium tubing is pretty great for protecting cords for bunbuns. It comes in all kinds of diameters, lengths and thicknesses. Just use a sharp blade to slice a long slit in it to push your cord through.

 

[deleted498041]

Yeah, no. There is no reason that people should be working 7-8 or 9PM multiple days in a row. Just no. It isn't healthy. It is draining. I could maybe do it if it were 3 days a week. But at 4-5 or more days, I was so over that schedule. Add-in that most of the last minute "fit in" crap was the "my dog/cat has been doing xyz for 10 moths and NOW I must be seen" and the management is all... fit them in, umm, how about NO? NO! You have waited 10 months it can wait 12 hours more and if it can't, go to emergency.

I think a lot of places are worried about saying "no". But no is a full and complete sentence. No, I will not fill your medication instantaneously because you walked in with an empty bottle and demand it to be refilled. No, I will not see your dog who has had an ear infection for 4 months at 10 minutes to close. No, you should not bring your dog who has been vomiting and not eating for 3 days to us in the 15 minutes before close, go to an ER. No, bringing your dog with seizures in 5 minutes before close does not mean that you are going to get full diagnostics and hospitalization, no we can not "just have someone stay overnight" because you don't want to go to the emergency clinic. No, you can not curse out my receptionist and techs, treat me great and then expect me to not say something about treating the support staff decently. No, you will act like an entitled bitch. But finding a clinic/management that will back you up on some of these, can be difficult.

I think learning to say "no" in the right circumstances is incredibly important; as a student, an extern, an intern, etc... I'm an intern, and I work about 80-100 or more hours a week most weeks, but I signed up for this and I knew what I was getting into. What I didn't sign up for is abusive clients. I had one client recently who made disparaging and sexist remarks that, according to another doctor, bordered on sexual harassment. I thought because I was "just an intern," I had to put up with it for the good of his incredibly sick dog. What I should have done is told the man he was being inappropriate, and elevated it to someone higher up in the hospital. It was ultimately handled because someone asked me what had me so shaken up, but I should have understood that saying "no" in that situation was okay. I told friends, who are also recent grads, about this experience in more detail because I hope that it can encourage other people to not just put up with crappy situations.

 

[DVMDream]

I think learning to say "no" in the right circumstances is incredibly important; as a student, an extern, an intern, etc... I'm an intern, and I work about 80-100 or more hours a week most weeks, but I signed up for this and I knew what I was getting into. What I didn't sign up for is abusive clients. I had one client recently who made disparaging and sexist remarks that, according to another doctor, bordered on sexual harassment. I thought because I was "just an intern," I had to put up with it for the good of his incredibly sick dog. What I should have done is told the man he was being inappropriate, and elevated it to someone higher up in the hospital. It was ultimately handled because someone asked me what had me so shaken up, but I should have understood that saying "no" in that situation was okay. I told friends, who are also recent grads, about this experience in more detail because I hope that it can encourage other people to not just put up with crappy situations.

The bolded part above is NOT ok though. And you are excusing it as everyone before you did too... "well, I signed up for this so I need to suck it up and deal"... in New York, they have made it so residents are only allowed to work 80 hours per week which is still too much if you ask me. This is the mentality we are talking about, it isn't ok for anyone to work 80-100 hours in a week, period, no ifs ands or buts.

 

[deleted498041]

The bolded part above is NOT ok though. And you are excusing it as everyone before you did too... "well, I signed up for this so I need to suck it up and deal"... in New York, they have made it so residents are only allowed to work 80 hours per week which is still too much if you ask me. This is the mentality we are talking about, it isn't ok for anyone to work 80-100 hours in a week, period, no ifs ands or buts.

I don't think I'm necessarily excusing it, and I'm certainly not saying it's right for everyone. Regardless, without going into more detail about my specific situation, I implore everyone to heavily research the programs or jobs you're applying to and make sure its a right fit for you. My internship is the right fit for me and I absolutely love 99% of my days at work. I love being there, and yes, I've gone in on my days off to see and do things. I see too many classmates that are unhappy with where they are. Different things are deal breakers for different people, so make sure you identify what those are for you prior to accepting a position somewhere.

 

[LetItSnow]

I don't think I'm necessarily excusing it,

I think you are excusing it, because you're essentially saying it's ok as long as you know ahead of time.

It's not, because those kind of internships (and jobs) by their very existence suggest that it's ok. The demands put on many of us (not just internships, but out in 'real' practice) are absurd. They are illegal in many professions. At the very least, regular break periods are mandated and paid vacation is the norm (neither of which exist for most of us).

If you personally want to work that much, then sure, that's ok. But there should be exactly 0 internships/residencies/jobs for which it is required. Regardless of it being made apparent ahead of time. It should be illegal to require someone to work that much, and that includes subtle coercion or pressure.

 

[Coquette22]

I hate this mentality that seems rampant in our career so much.

I quit my last job because of this. The notion that we're unreasonable and selfish if we say no to the fit ins, the after hours, the people who waited 3 weeks but NOW it's an emergency and pitch a tantrum if they aren't seen right this second. I don't do it and I won't do it. I am too young to be burnt out.

 

[dyachei]

I quit my last job because of this. The notion that were unreasonable and selfish if we say no to the fit ins, the after hours, the people who waited 3 weeks but NOW it's an emergency and pitch a tantrum if they aren't seen right this second. I don't do it and I won't do it. I am too young to be burnt out.

we have a client here right now who was told yesterday to make an appt. And she didn't. She said she was just going to walk in and did. She's been waiting an hour and will likely wait another because I have 3 patients to see ahead of her and that's not including the 2 patients who have an appt time in 30 mins

 

[LetItSnow]

we have a client here right now who was told yesterday to make an appt. And she didn't. She said she was just going to walk in and did. She's been waiting an hour and will likely wait another because I have 3 patients to see ahead of her and that's not including the 2 patients who have an appt time in 30 mins

Ha. Good for you for making her wait.

Client behavior is definitely an aspect of all this that needs to change. There's employer problems (hours, pay, on-call, vacation, all that typical stuff), and then there's client problems.

I really think one of the worst things that ever happened to the customer service industry was "the customer is always right." It's evolved into this self-absorbed nonsense where wayyyyyy too many people think they can demand whatever they want because hey, they're the paying customer.

So what? Yeah, you're paying for a service. That doesn't mean you get to be dickish about it. You don't get to yell at my staff. Or me. You don't get to demand services above and beyond what we provide. You don't get to demand them for a cost less than we charge. Period.

As an industry, we need to start enforcing an expectation of reasonable behavior. Too many clinics/hospitals accommodate that kind of behavior, which helps perpetuate it.

I have a fantasy where it becomes kinda common knowledge that when you go to a vet, you have to behave yourself - because as an industry we start demanding it.

 

[dyachei]

I had a lady in the other day. she had a dog who needed an anal sac expression which she asked for and agreed to. He had recent sacculitis that progressed to abscess. We provided the service. She tried to leave without payment. We stopped her. She told us because the new client exam is free (which is when we did the abscess treatment), that she thought this should be free, too. Because it was a recheck. Recheck exams are actually $5 more than expression. And I did the expression, so she basically got a recheck. She still wasn't happy and proceeded to call us later to tell us we shouldn't have charged her and she was never coming back.

good riddance

 

[DVMDream]

Just today had a client come in with one dog scheduled. She wanted the free new client exam but had been to our clinic before, so not a new client. She also asked that we see a second dog (she just brought along with) without an appointment scheduled. She also expected a free exam on that one.
She threw a fit when she was told not only is the second dog's exam not free but neither is the first one because she's an existing client.

She threw some fit about having no money. Her dogs are sick and she's already been to too many vets and we should see them for free. She stormed out telling us we are no help and then mumbled "dinguses" under her breath.

 

[wallydo]

I worked in two practices that offered free exams to new clients. Many of the vets that I worked with felt like it ended up being more harmful than beneficial. We attracted clients that ultimately wanted free veterinary care and either were upset at future visits or we never saw them again. Not all clients, but many.

Also, I went to two internship talks this week (one by VCA and the other by the director of our ECCM service), as a student who has an interest in pursuing an internship after school. The 80-100 work weeks have been so normalized that I don’t know how it could ever actually change. I worked third shift in our ICU and got to know our last round of interns really well. When they were on overnights, they worked about 115 hour weeks. Everyone’s opinion is “it’s what you gotta do”. Open ended question... but how could this ever change?

 

[Ashgirl]

I worked in two practices that offered free exams to new clients. Many of the vets that I worked with felt like it ended up being more harmful than beneficial. We attracted clients that ultimately wanted free veterinary care and either were upset at future visits or we never saw them again. Not all clients, but many.

Also, I went to two internship talks this week (one by VCA and the other by the director of our ECCM service), as a student who has an interest in pursuing an internship after school. The 80-100 work weeks have been so normalized that I don’t know how it could ever actually change. I worked third shift in our ICU and got to know our last round of interns really well. When they were on overnights, they worked about 115 hour weeks. Everyone’s opinion is “it’s what you gotta do”. Open ended question... but how could this ever change?

I think a portion of the problem is exactly this- everything goes along with the torture because they think that's the only way. And that's simply not true. At least from a 4th year's perspective (I understand it would be harder to accommodate interns but I think there are ways), there are SO many ways that it could be better for us students. Not forcing us to do useless extra duties that we get nothing out of except for less sleep, hiring (gasp!) more techs and overnight staff instead of expecting us to do it after a full day of clinics, letting us live our lives and not keeping us there until 5 or 6 or 7pm every day "just because," having templates of paperwork we can start from, letting us actually leave for the day (gasp!) after we were never left and have been there since 7am yesterday... etc, etc, etc.

 

[DVMDream]

I worked in two practices that offered free exams to new clients. Many of the vets that I worked with felt like it ended up being more harmful than beneficial. We attracted clients that ultimately wanted free veterinary care and either were upset at future visits or we never saw them again. Not all clients, but many.

Also, I went to two internship talks this week (one by VCA and the other by the director of our ECCM service), as a student who has an interest in pursuing an internship after school. The 80-100 work weeks have been so normalized that I don’t know how it could ever actually change. I worked third shift in our ICU and got to know our last round of interns really well. When they were on overnights, they worked about 115 hour weeks. Everyone’s opinion is “it’s what you gotta do”. Open ended question... but how could this ever change?

I think free or discounted exams are worthless and stupid. I despise them with a fiery passion but seems all the clinics around here offer them. I don't think it attracts new clients. It attracts self entitled dinguses and clinic hoppers, neither of which you want.

 

[genny]

I had a client ask me the other day if I'd considered how expensive vet care was for pets, implying that we charge too much. She actually looked me in the eye and had the nerve to tell me that I should be charging her less to take care of her dog, that she could spend a thousand dollars a year on her dog between food and vet bills and wasn't that too much? I wanted to go off on the suicide rate in veterinarians, the ridiculous amount of school debt, being part of one of the few jobs that people just expect you to do for free, but instead I just said "Yes, pets are expensive, aren't they?"

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I had a client ask me the other day if I'd considered how expensive vet care was for pets, implying that we charge too much. She actually looked me in the eye and had the nerve to tell me that I should be charging her less to take care of her dog, that she could spend a thousand dollars a year on her dog between food and vet bills and wasn't that too much? I wanted to go off on the suicide rate in veterinarians, the ridiculous amount of school debt, being part of one of the few jobs that people just expect you to do for free, but instead I just said "Yes, pets are expensive, aren't they?"

I love it

People think millennials are so entitled, they should look at pet owners.

 

[britzen]

"Yes, pets are expensive, aren't they?"

At some point a few years ago I was having a conversation with my hubby about our household expenses and, after three years of dog ownership, it finally dawned on him how much we spend on our dogs... The look on his face was priceless! 😵

 

[SkiOtter]

At some point a few years ago I was having a conversation with my hubby about our household expenses and, after three years of dog ownership, it finally dawned on him how much we spend on our dogs... The look on his face was priceless! 😵

i assume thats your dog in your avatar??? s/he's suuuuuper cute (pls send to me)

 

[britzen]

i assume thats your dog in your avatar??? s/he's suuuuuper cute (pls send to me)

One of my two! Just look at these smoosh faces - you're always welcome to drop by for a snuggle!

 

[WildZoo]

Omg those are two of the most adorable pictures I have ever seen

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Omg those are two of the most adorable pictures I have ever seen

Those ears 😍

 

[SkiOtter]

One of my two! Just look at these smoosh faces - you're always welcome to drop by for a snuggle!

View attachment 224647 View attachment 224649

Oh my goddddddddddddddddd
I needs. Please send to me. My address is 1234 Internet Street

 

[WildZoo]

Oh my goddddddddddddddddd
I needs. Please send to me. My address is 1234 Internet Street

Google maps says this address is fake!! Why are you trying to strand cute dogs in the mail??