The WWatering Hole Bar Grand Opening - Game Thread.

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The discrepancy between me and Cyndia only involved STL because he shoved himself in the middle of it, and she was moved before I knew there was anything going on, or else we could have compared results directly and figured out what was going on. STL himself had said it was probably mod flair, and yet he still saw fit to try to force my hand because with his limited knowledge of my role he thought I wasn't using it the way I should. I'm not interested in playing along with that kind of style - outting people so they have to play the way he wants. Not even a little interested.

I even posted on the thread for him to copy and paste and compare with you, so he really has no excuse.

The other thing that would be consistent with her role is lynch cancellation based on background info. Aka, i really see no reason not to use the night cancel unless she is perpetually lying about it. I pointed out to her that she can die before its used, but she has taken her toys and gone home. And the opportune moment is a bull**** argument IMO, seems like a deflection.

While I can understand you maybe trying to force her hand and bring this out if you were truly suspicious of her, I still don't understand why you had to out me on the thread too. Giving every piece of info to the wolves is not helpful, and you could have still brought up the points about wz without going into detail on the rest of it.

There's a reason I don't really give info to STL anymore; it's because I've been burned by the situation you're in. Once he gets information, he has no respect for the source and he doesn't work with anyone.

Lesson learned.

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You're asking for a lot. STL's argument essentially implies some level of suspicion about you, that can be cleared by using your ability. You're refusing to use it.

(And believe me, you know my stubborn streak, so you know I can understand wanting to refuse.)

It just puts out a LOT of smoke and makes it seem like someone in that mix of you/Cyndia/STL is a wolf. For the village sake, it might be nice to resolve the question sooner rather than later. I'm saying it might be a good time to set aside your pride and stubbornness.

There's a reason I don't really give info to STL anymore; it's because I've been burned by the situation you're in. Once he gets information, he has no respect for the source and he doesn't work with anyone.
I'm sure it will be resolved more quickly than you think.

I didn't give him the info. I was trying to clear up the apparent discrepancy with Cyndia's results, he guessed based on that.
 
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The fire marshal said it wasn't quite safe yet to go back into the bar, but opening day was so close! @Trilt and @Melchizedek took their lives into their own hands and started cleaning up the rubble on their own in the dead of the night.

And what's a cleanup without some music? On the suggestion of one of the drinks, we put some happy stuff on:





Everyone was so relaxed that all night kills were canceled.

Nobody has died.
@PrincessButterCup and @allieh8607 seem to having fun, though. Please adjust PMs accordingly.

_ _ __ ___ ____ ______ __________ ______ ____ ___ __ _ _


Roster

I’ll come out for ONE drink
1. @LetItSnow

Shots? SHOTS!

2. @TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo

Awkward First Date
6. @Kam325
7. @DVMDream

What Happened Last Night?
9. @Ceke2002
8. @SkiOtter
10. @Crayola227

I Knew I Should Have Stayed Home
14. @WildZoo
15. @Cyndia
12. @SummerTheLynx

Winos
18. @raf2769

Whiskey Aficionados
21. @LadyOtheFarm
22. @britzen

Trying to Recreate the College Days
23. @PippyPony
24. @mmmdreamerz

♩ ♪ ♫ TAKE ME HOME TONIGHT ♫ ♪ ♩
17. @allieh8607
5. @PrincessButterCup - Maker's Mark Whiskey

19. @Animal Midwife - Southern Tier Pumking Beer
20. @tartesos - Malibu "Rum"
13. @genny - Jack Daniels Whiskey
16. @Jilary - Strongbow Cider
3. @SnowshoeDog143 - St. George Absinthe
11. @finnickthedog - Water
4. @rabbott1971 - Tanqueray Gin
 
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Lynch Britzen

Still really like this vote and the feeling's getting stronger.

Here's my first post, click the arrow for the Britzen quotes, they don't show up in the quote. Soft defenses of Genny while still appearing to suspect her ("Genny's on my sketch list because A, but actually it's not as sketchy as it looks because B"). D1, reacts to Tarty's Genny vote by throwing suspicion back on Tarty for creating a tie.

I'd kind of like to go Britzen tomorrow. Not concrete, but...getting a feeling.

Subtle---not obvious/sloppy enough to draw attention (wolves know what's sketchy too, would be tempted to steer away from Genny but still concerned about looking suspicious). But still pushing attention to Ceke and Crayola (easy distractions), and injecting doubt re: Genny (while still keeping Genny on her feels list, safe move).

Boilerplate suspicion of Ceke, who, let's be honest, is the easiest target around to justify but is always bananas.

Reaction to my last two votes against her reads competent-wolfy. No response whatsoever to my suspicions---it's absolutely not necessary to respond to a single vote as a wolf, and arguably better to ignore it/not draw attention. But, in my experience I think villagers are less cautious about their names in people's mouths and more likely to at least acknowledge a vote against them.

Just overall feeling this and would like to see it go somewhere.
 
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Sweet. I got moved back to solo land where I can be the crazy old guy with the messed-up hair, sweater vest, and urine smell sitting in a booth in the corner mumbling under his breath (with occasional outbursts of swearing) drinking from a bottle of cheap-ass wine all night long.....
 
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If anyone was wondering, I was planning something much more exciting and useful, but there was some mod disagreement, so kill cancel was the best I could think up.

I got a boost (I think from the dead based on the wording, so thank you dead people) which I could use "in any way I wanted" so originally was going to cancel wolf actions only. That got vetoed this morning.

But I didn't necessarily think it was a good idea for wolves to know for sure I was using my ability in either case, hence my stubbornness, with the added bonus of telling STL off. Didn't really intend to loop anyone else into the argument, so I apologize for any wasted time on that last night.

The anger was real though.
 
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*******************

Sweet. I got moved back to solo land where I can be the crazy old guy with the messed-up hair, sweater vest, and urine smell sitting in a booth in the corner mumbling under his breath (with occasional outbursts of swearing) drinking from a bottle of cheap-ass wine all night long.....
popping in to show my typical morning look.*

oldman.JPG


*From halloween a few years back. Someday I will do halloween again!
*********************************************************************************
 
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I'm going with lynch ski
a lot of posts are fluff or really late versions of things people have already said.

I also just want to go with someone who has been on the ceke lynches. While ceke has general weirdness around them (could be wolf, could be not), I feel like there has to be a wolf somewhere in the past few days worth of people voting there. It's just an easy lynch - no one is going to side eye a lynch for ceke because of how weird her posts have been, which makes it an easy lynch vote for a wolf to get on without gaining any suspicion or having to give forth any new feels or information.

I could go for britzen as well for the same reasoning about the ceke lynches, but figured I'd offer up another name for discussion as well
 
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I am happy to join you on that lynch to put some additional pressure on her. Still have a lot of wolfy tallies for her from early game.

Lynch Ski
 
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Who was the person that suggested wolves and villagers may be trying to convert the neutral to their side? I want to lunch whoever that was, as it's a leap I don't think would necessarily be made without outside info
 
Ok, for those saying ceke is the "easy lynch" for wolves to jump on and using that as a reason to vote people who voted ceke.....

Do you have information that ceke is, indeed a villager? Because, if not, your reasoning falls flat. Without information ceke is a villager I find those votes a bit odd. Now if that info does exist or we find out that ceke is village then I definitely agree with that theory.

But, without that info, the votes for those voting ceke are just a little odd.
 
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Ok, for those saying ceke is the "easy lynch" for wolves to jump on and using that as a reason to vote people who voted ceke.....

Do you have information that ceke is, indeed a villager? Because, if not, your reasoning falls flat. Without information ceke is a villager I find those votes a bit odd. Now if that info does exist or we find out that ceke is village than I definitely agree with that theory.

But, without that info, the votes for those voting ceke are just a little odd.
But even if ceke is wolf, her posts are weird. everyone has seen that and no one is disagreeing with that. I would assume a wolf would vote for obviously weird posts whether the person on the other end is wolf or not. If ceke is wolf, they can claim it for village cred. If ceke is village, oh well. I obviously get that ceke being village makes this argument stronger, but I'm thinking that there will still be a wolf found in people voting for her consistently over the past 2 days either way.

That thought process + feels for the posts of ski/britzen (by myself and voiced by other players) are what is leading me in this direction right now.

I'm still not sure what to think of ceke. I know I've played with her before, and she always kind of has me rolling my eyes on my end of the computer, so even though her posts are super strange and I don't understand her thought process, I'm really NOT sure that that isn't just her. Could burn me later, idk.
 
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sorry, I'm still thinking of how to explain my thinking

as ceke keeps posting and everyone keeps telling her how wrong she is in her thinking, I'm assuming that IF she IS a wolf, the other wolves would assume that she would be lynched soon anyway, therefore that would be a good lynch for them to jump on or even push to gain village cred.

does this make sense?
 
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Who was the person that suggested wolves and villagers may be trying to convert the neutral to their side? I want to lunch whoever that was, as it's a leap I don't think would necessarily be made without outside info
Lol I think that was me
But it was pretty clear in snowy's role description, plus with what pip got about conversion, and Finn's role. So maybe you just haven't been paying attention.
 
Modbandonment complaints are no longer accepted if there is not excitement on thread in the following hours. :mad:
Results came out during my busy time, if they had been earlier there could have been more excitement :p
 
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*********************************************************
The Dead's Unofficial Lynch Tally

Ceke (1) - LIS
WZ (1) - Ceke
britzen (1) - Kam
Ski (2) - raf, Pippy

5/17
lynch close in ~ 9 hours
*********************************************************
 
I think I'm gonna go with lynch britzen for now, based on a little bit of voting history and a little bit of feelings. Would like to know the ritz's current reads.

Because I think redirectors can cause a ton of chaos if the role is used inappropriately. I will of course use it if I suspect someone, but I didn't have anyone in mind at the time.
I forgot we can PM again. Will give you some thoughts in a minute.
 
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Ok, for those saying ceke is the "easy lynch" for wolves to jump on and using that as a reason to vote people who voted ceke.....

Do you have information that ceke is, indeed a villager? Because, if not, your reasoning falls flat. Without information ceke is a villager I find those votes a bit odd. Now if that info does exist or we find out that ceke is village then I definitely agree with that theory.

But, without that info, the votes for those voting ceke are just a little odd.
It's odd to put other lynch candidates on the board, rather than jumping to someone who has repeatedly been voted for before?
:eyebrow:
 
And if they are feeling generous, I'd like @WildZoo 's read on Allie, and @LetItSnow 's read on DVMD, por favor.
Why my read on allie in particular? She is my manator but I wouldn't say I've ever been good at reading her, and also been a while since I've played with her (not counting last game...we were masons anyway and well, I died n1). She's been hanging out in my neutralish zone, nothing much catching my attention. I can try for a more in depth read if you like.
 
^because that. I also forgot/maybe didn't ever really realize you were masons last game -- I just remembered you knowing she was village in dead chat ;)
Ha. Was literally just because we were masons with a shared ability ;)
 
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Because I think redirectors can cause a ton of chaos if the role is used inappropriately. I will of course use it if I suspect someone, but I didn't have anyone in mind at the time.
But you had me in mind last night ;)
 
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It's odd to put other lynch candidates on the board, rather than jumping to someone who has repeatedly been voted for before?
:eyebrow:

I didn't at all question bringing other lynch candidates forward, I wouldn't at all do that. I'm questioning the reasoning behind those lynches because I don't follow when there is no info on if ceke is really a wolf or not. And the whole, well maybe they know ceke is wolf and they are trying to buy credit .....you don't get credit but just jumping on a vote so that doesn't hold water with me. I'm not going to give everyone voting a wolf a free pass....maybe a person who drove the lynch but otherwise, no. So, again, I'm not questioning the bringing forward other candidates, I'm questioning the reasoning without info.
 
How in the **** do you get this from that post? Seriously. That isn't even close to what I said and you know it.
*shrug*. It is kind of what I took away from it.

I mean, I get what you're saying logic-wise, but even still, it seems a little odd to me that you're kinda softly discouraging other votes. I'm primarily on the Ski vote because her posts have come across as wolfy in my mind, but her votes are not doing her any favors. I don't see what the harm is in distributing the pressure between them.
 
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*shrug*. It is kind of what I took away from it.

I mean, I get what you're saying logic-wise, but even still, it seems a little odd to me that you're kinda softly discouraging other votes. I'm primarily on the Ski vote because her posts have come across as wolfy in my mind, but her votes are not doing her any favors. I don't see what the harm is in distributing the pressure between them.

I didn't discourage any votes. I just don't agree with that particular reasoning. And I belive my reads have mentioned ski as possible wolf for other reasons, haven't really read closely to update reads the last two days. I haven't even ever voted ceke (I hope because I don't recall doing it) so to say I'm encouraging only that vote is dishonest.
 
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Wolfy (these are in order from most to least)
Britzen - I like Kam's analysis
3m - Didn't like the phrasing of her reads post yesterday. Very chaos-hunty, vewry non-committal wolf reads, no clue of who she might be reading as village, and that does make me suspicious because wolves often refrain from telegraphing who they might "trust" because it narrows down their mislynch options.
Ski - nothing more than a feeling really
Cray - I need something to solidly put her in the village column before I dare to move her out of this list, and nothing like that has happened as of yet.
Ceke - I'm reading her as confused village on the surface, which is why she's in this category. Anyone who played that one game where I had to eat my hat should know why...

Middle of the road, not necessarily in order
BBC - Leaning village on her now. I don't really think a wolf would go to the effort of making that running vote tracker, though I would like to see some actual analysis from her on it.
Cyndia - We'll see how things go. Keeping an eye but I'm ok with her right now.
STL - hasn't found us a wolf yet. Pissed me off. Probably still a villager but since it's d5 and I have to lynch him before the end of the game per his request, I can't have him hanging out in my village category.
allie - separate thoughts to come later, I don't have much to say here right now
raf - same as allie
lotf - I don't want to put too much weight on surface things, but her post-death comment on AM gets her a couple points, and I'm not seeing anything significant to push her wolfy

Still reading village, not in order (though now that I look at it this list seems to good to be true. Remember there's probably a wolf here, there always is):
LIS
DVMD
PBC
Kam
Pip
 
Lynch Britzen

My feels on her haven't changed.
 
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Has Ceke been a wolf before? If so, what game? Would love to go and read through her wolf play. Ceke is growing into a player that, for me, is an egg that needs to be cracked. With the confusing posts and bragging about voting patterns, the constant back and forth of "is she/isn't she a wolf" is honestly quite distracting.

Kam is pinging my radar for flying under the radar. Also halfheartedly joked/bragged/whatever that they are always in the "no opinion" pile. Villager bragging and calling attention to their goodness will always make my ears perk up. Has only voted for the person who got lynched once, which could be a wolf placing votes in safe places. I do kind of like his reads on Britzen currently, though.

Hard for me to get reads on 3M, LOTF, and BBC just because I feel like I haven't seen much from any of them, at least of substance. My vote today may very well come from them.

DVMD is starting to ping my radar...doesn't seem to be around much during the actual lynch (I'm aware she's working but...) and then comes on and posts giant analyses with a lot of repeated thoughts but also a lot of her own. DVMD is always super hard for me to get a read on but I guess still swings villager to me.

Then there's the whole cluster with STL/WZ/Cyndia. I agree with LIS (I think) that one of them is probably a wolf. Cancelling night actions seems like a village ability to me, unless someone can enlighten me with how/why the wolves would benefit from that. Can't personally ever remember it being a wolf ability. Still have to remember that STL had the N1 rez but his push back of people calling him safely village and then all the drama with WZ/cyndia just rubs me the wrong way- at this point would rather focus on finding originals than converts so meh. Which leaves Cyndia, who's role is to redirect actions. Hers is the role that can swing both ways the most to me. For her to admit to not using it a few times though and not having anyone step forward to say she's lying makes me think she's using it in a village way. Keeping my eye on her, also a potential lynch candidate.

For now, lynch 3M
 
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But even if ceke is wolf, her posts are weird. everyone has seen that and no one is disagreeing with that. I would assume a wolf would vote for obviously weird posts whether the person on the other end is wolf or not. If ceke is wolf, they can claim it for village cred. If ceke is village, oh well. I obviously get that ceke being village makes this argument stronger, but I'm thinking that there will still be a wolf found in people voting for her consistently over the past 2 days either way.

That thought process + feels for the posts of ski/britzen (by myself and voiced by other players) are what is leading me in this direction right now.

I'm still not sure what to think of ceke. I know I've played with her before, and she always kind of has me rolling my eyes on my end of the computer, so even though her posts are super strange and I don't understand her thought process, I'm really NOT sure that that isn't just her. Could burn me later, idk.

Me as a villager:

Everyone else is using analytical flow charts, and the like, and I'm basically tra-lalal-ing whilst weaving a ball of string around random trees in a forest somewhere.

Me as I am imagine myself playing as a wolf:

Wolf pack - FFS will you just go back to playing as yourself, you're painting a huge target on our backs

Me - Shh wolves are stealthy, therefore I am stealth. *suddenly pretends to be all super analytical and flow charty*

Wolf pack - Should we lynch her now, or wait for the villagers to do it.
 
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Ski ISO below. Conclusion: Neutral. I think it's possible she's a wolf but not a top priority for me, couple things look sketchy on the surface but don't really make much sense for a wolf. More on that in the spoiler tag. I would still like to hear her thoughts on a wider percentage of the players in the game, feel like she's just mentioned the same people over and over.

I also can't read AM for ****. But I also can't read anyone else tbh. So if people are lynching AM because no one can read her, then I should just be lynching everyone in this game then.
Crayons is distracting and makes my head hurt.
Genny did get a defensive over votes that were because she was a wolf last game, but I understand that. I kinda like genny in games because i enjoy her wwmotto of "doesn't matter if you win as long as you have fun" and when shes village she seems to just have a fun time (from what i've seen recently, at least)
[quoted lotf post]
^^this whole post just sets off little baby bells for me tbh
LIS is very present today and its strange but refreshing
First real content post. Note that I don't really take off points for being off topic at the beginning of the game (or...at any point) because that's Ski, and it would be hypocritical of me.
Soft defense of genny here...basically a "Aw, don't lynch genny" type thing, but not for strategy reasons.
Note that this is one of the only posts I could find where Ski talked about more than one player in the game in her reads.

wasn't necessarily you talking in general that i didn't like, just kinda the "oh good golly! people are talking this game!!! yay!!!!!!!!" and the "i've been masoned with cyndia twice so if shes a wolf i will probably miss that" that just felt weird to me.
Just noting this commentary on lotf due to something later.

Losing any sort of villager is bad, even if vanilla. Are you just giving up? Or are you going to try and convince us to keep you around once you get off work?? It always sets off flags for me when someone's defense is "I'm just vanilla so it's not a huge loss to lynch me"
This was her reasoning for lynching PBC, which put her further ahead of genny on d1.

I forgot LOTF was playing and I don't like when that happens.
This is interesting to me considering lotf was the player Ski commented on the most the day before (two posts isn't a lot but it was more than she said about anyone else). Kind of weird to forget about someone you were suspicious of.

I'm not as on board with the genny lynch as of right now. Going to dinner soon so I'm going to

lynch LOTF


because of her weird posts yesterday and today I kind of forgot she was even playing, which always gives me major feelz when I completely forget about a player.
Again mentioning she forgot lotf...but she did remember her previous weird posts? Interesting.

Then why did you do this
This was in response to ceke. Easy apparent inconsistency for a wolf to point out, means nothing if ceke is village. Unlikely to be a wolf-wolf interaction though.
Lynch cake
Too many sketchy things said and trying to make other people seem sketchier than they are, especially with the whole bolded letters thing with STL. Honesty points aren't gonna get you anywhere in this game. As Finn said, wolves will try to tell the truth as much as possible because then they don't get caught in a lie.
Some things said in pm just kinda felt a smidgen off as well, but less so than most of what's been said on thread.
Would like to know what things were said in PM that were off.

unlynch ceke for today, lynch rabbott
unhelpful reads list that included far too many dead people and forgot people who still are playing
defense of "none whatsoever"
I really need to know ceke's affiliation to assess this completely, but I think in either case this switch and it's timing would be very, very odd for a wolf. There is no strategic positioning, it was the 9th vote for rabbott, and all the wolves would have known was that he was non-village. Reads as villager.
 
This was in response to ceke. Easy apparent inconsistency for a wolf to point out, means nothing if ceke is village. Unlikely to be a wolf-wolf interaction though.

Would like to know what things were said in PM that were off.

This is the stuff I said in PM

Hey.

I don't generally PM at all, unless someone PMs me first. Not sure why, I just prefer to observe in game interactions I guess.

Does anyone in this group have specific intel gathering powers? At the risk of outing myself to a wolf in the PM group I have the ability to add messages into the night write ups, although I don't think it can be quite as blatant as 'so and so is a wolf'.

The message I put in is 'the cake is not a lie, the cake is never a lie' - it refers to my being referred to as 'cake' in the lynch tallies, I'm indicating my villager status by basically saying I'm not lying. Yeah a bit stupid I know, but I have nothing else to go on and I'm still testing the parameters of what I can add and what will get a 'no' from the mods. I can only add 140 characters or less, and like I said I don't know how blatant I can be - not yet at least.

Welcome back. So what was the whole 'move' thing about anyway. Any intel you can give me to put into whatever gif message the mods are going to convert my words into?


Darn it. Do we think there's a seer in the group? (I mean the whole game group, not just the PM here) If I could just find a way to hook up with the seer I could use my ability to pass on info without risk of outing them.

Any feels on the Snowy lynch? I was 100% gungho on it before they posted, and now I'm feeling a waffle coming on because they made sense in terms of points for villager-ness. I could waffle on over to Cyndia.

The message was 'I have a cunning plan'. And I figure I can confirm the message meanings during the day cycle (provided I'm not comatosed).
 
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Cray - I need something to solidly put her in the village column before I dare to move her out of this list, and nothing like that has happened as of yet.

I can copy/paste our PMs if that helps. I mean I think by this stage of the game what we had planned probably isn't going to go ahead.

Hang on a sec. :)
 
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