University of Virginia vs. Case Western

[PocketAA]

Hi guys,

How would you rank these two schools in terms of academic merit and prestige? Does one name carry more weight than the other? Would attending one provide more opportunities than the other, or should I base my decision off lifestyle differences since they are nearly equivalent?

Both will cost me the same amount (a million billion dollars + first born child etc). Below are some of my personal pros/cons:

UVA:
+ 1.5 yr curriculum is huge
+ brand new facilities, amazing buildings (I'm a sucker for modern, updated atmospheres)
+ Charlottesville is quaint and close affiliation with undergrad is nice (sports, bar scene, etc)
- worried about small hospitals, uniform patient population
- away rotations 3rd year seems to get a bad rep
- terrible airport with no direct flights, minor issue for sure

Case:
+ huge name in research + academia (I admit I had never heard of CWRU two years ago, but I am from the southeast. I now know it to be very prominent and well-respected)
+ Cleveland Clinic affiliation is big-- everything at your fingertips as opposed to away rotations
- Cleveland itself is meh
- IQ teams seem awesome and productive, but may be overplayed in the curriculum
- name recognition may be underrated (seems you either know it and love it or have never heard of it), minor issue for sure


Overall, I believe I may be leaning towards UVA due to the atmosphere and lifestyle, but I do not want to sell myself short by passing up an opportunity at a better school. I would love to hear thoughts from everyone, especially current students. I have attached match lists from both schools, and I would appreciate if someone could tell me Step 1 averages. Yes, I know these are shallow ways to evaluate medical schools, but I assure you I consider them only small pieces of a larger puzzle.

Case: http://cwrumedicine.org/residency-program/applicants/residency-match-history
UVA: http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/residency/Match/15/match15a.cfm

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[Willy38]

I don't think Case opens any doors that UVA doesn't. If you like UVA, go there. They are a great institution and will get you wherever you want to be.

 

[PocketAA]

I don't think Case opens any doors that UVA doesn't. If you like UVA, go there. They are a great institution and will get you wherever you want to be.

As always, your feedback is tremendously appreciated. Thank you!

Do any residency directors on here have anything to chime in?

 

[Chocoaddict]

That's not the Case match list; that's a list of people who will be internal medicine residents at UH/Case Medical Center. Here's a list of previous years' match lists, along with Step 1 averages: http://casemed.case.edu/admissions/profile.cfm

...as well as UVA's Step 1: https://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/academics/licensure.cfm

Looks like there isn't much of a statistically significant difference, and everyone will tell you that your personal effort matters more than how the school prepares you or school reputation.

FWIW Case also has a ~1.5 preclinical curriculum: http://casemed.case.edu/curriculum/education/y1y2-blocks.cfm

....and a new medical education building soon, although the finish date of summer 2016 appears to be shockingly early: http://case.edu/think/fallwinter2013/future-of-medical-education.html

I'm not sure what you mean by away rotations. At Case, you do your core clinical rotations primarily at UH/Case, Cleveland Clinic, Metrohealth or the VA. They're all within a 10 mile radius of each other. Depending on how flexible a school's 4th year is, you can spend the entire year doing away rotations anywhere in the country. Some schools have graduation requirements that dictate you must do a certain number or type of 4th year rotations at their school. If you make a minimal effort at planning, Case has an extremely flexible 4th year- only core rotations (done 3rd year) and 1 4-week sub-internship (can be done 3rd year) is required in Cleveland and you can do the rest of your requirements in Cleveland or anywhere else. This makes doing away/audition rotations in your specialty area of choice during the summer/fall of 4th year much easier to set up.

I can't speak about UVA's rotations or the school or the curriculum. You should choose where you will be happiest with a reasonable amount of debt. I'm not advocating one over the other, just wanted to provide you with accurate data, though I ended up making Case look great. 😉 Seriously though, both are great schools and I have friends at both.

 

[PocketAA]

That's not the Case match list; that's a list of people who will be internal medicine residents at UH/Case Medical Center. Here's a list of previous years' match lists, along with Step 1 averages: http://casemed.case.edu/admissions/profile.cfm

...as well as UVA's Step 1: https://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/academics/licensure.cfm

Looks like there isn't much of a statistically significant difference, and everyone will tell you that your personal effort matters more than how the school prepares you or school reputation.

FWIW Case also has a ~1.5 preclinical curriculum: http://casemed.case.edu/curriculum/education/y1y2-blocks.cfm

....and a new medical education building soon, although the finish date of summer 2016 appears to be shockingly early: http://case.edu/think/fallwinter2013/future-of-medical-education.html

I'm not sure what you mean by away rotations. At Case, you do your core clinical rotations primarily at UH/Case, Cleveland Clinic, Metrohealth or the VA. They're all within a 10 mile radius of each other. Depending on how flexible a school's 4th year is, you can spend the entire year doing away rotations anywhere in the country. Some schools have graduation requirements that dictate you must do a certain number or type of 4th year rotations at their school. If you make a minimal effort at planning, Case has an extremely flexible 4th year- only core rotations (done 3rd year) and 1 4-week sub-internship (can be done 3rd year) is required in Cleveland and you can do the rest of your requirements in Cleveland or anywhere else. This makes doing away/audition rotations in your specialty area of choice during the summer/fall of 4th year much easier to set up.

I can't speak about UVA's rotations or the school or the curriculum. You should choose where you will be happiest with a reasonable amount of debt. I'm not advocating one over the other, just wanted to provide you with accurate data, though I ended up making Case look great. 😉 Seriously though, both are great schools and I have friends at both.

Thank you so much for such a comprehensive post! I truly appreciate it!

In addition, thank you for posting the correct link to the CWRU match list. I have a PDF copy that I wasn't sure how to attach, and I simply linked the first google hit I found without even checking it (lazy, I know).

I am also glad you found the Step 1 averages. I agree there doesn't appear to be much of a significant difference when averaging the past few years. It is interesting you notice a sharp drop in UVA's performance the year they implemented the new curriculum, but it appears they have improved greatly over the past few years. I am sure both prepare equally well, though curriculum styles are slightly different (heavy heavy emphasis of IQ at Case seems unique).

As far as match lists, do you have anything to comment on the differences between these two institutions? As a medical student, I feel like you can interpret them better than me. I am interested in surgical specialties as of now, though that may change, and competitive/top spots matter more to me than location. Does either school tend to pump out more competitive matches? And do you think residency directors view them on the same "tier?"

That new CWRU building does look amazing! Despite its quick projected construction, it is disappointing I would not have access to it for my first year, when I assume I would spend the most time in it.

Finally, I think I used the wrong terminology when I mentioned "away rotations." What I meant is that UVA has a certain number of clerkships that are required to be at hospitals outside of Charlottesville, often up to four hours away. While UVA does finance modest housing if the hospital is far, I was just worried how the dynamics of being a medical student would work if we are required to pack up all our things and move to different cities frequently. Many hospitals they send students to are often rural, as well, which worried me as far as patient population diversity and quality of instruction given from physicians.

I truly wish I knew which school I would be happiest at! While both are so similar, they also would involve very different lifestyles. Still waiting for my magic epiphany...

 

[Chocoaddict]

More fun pictures of the meded building (I would not bank on a summer 2016 completion, maybe that article I cited was an older one): http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_clinic_and_cwru_rele.html

As stated, pre-clinical curriculum does not make (much of) a difference. You will teach yourself the material for Step 1. I urge you, and others, to consider the clinical curriculum instead. Questions people should ask are: how much responsibility do students get? how much procedural guidance is there? do they enjoy having medical students around? are there too many students on a team? how much scut is there? are there international electives available (if interested)? because the clinical curriculum/grades is what makes up the most important parts of your Dean's letter, transcript, AOA qualification, letters of recommendation, etc.

Unless you interview every single person and they answered honestly, I can't tell you. ~50% get their first choice, and some ~75% get their top 3 choices. Everyone has different preferences. In those four years, you may find a SO and couples match to a less-competitive program to stay together. You may decide you like rural medicine and eschew top programs (usually located in cities). You may find that a less-competitive program has really fun faculty and residents, while the big name program is malignant. You may find that what is important to you now is not important at all in four years.

That being said, both programs don't limit you in terms of where they go. Geographically, there's a bias towards the East Coast (more so UVA than Case, but it makes sense, no?). I can tell you there are big name programs in their respective fields so they both do wonderfully. At the same time, I know someone who matched to the #1 program in their surgical field...but it was actually his 5th choice. Conversely, there are dozens who match to the #10-50 program in their fields, but it was their #1 choice. So in the end, who is happiest? All you should take away from the match lists is that neither UVA nor Case will limit you in where you go, and for 50% of the matches, it was that student's #1 choice. Sorry that was not the answer you wanted, but that's the reality of things.

 

[PocketAA]

More fun pictures of the meded building (I would not bank on a summer 2016 completion, maybe that article I cited was an older one): http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_clinic_and_cwru_rele.html

As stated, pre-clinical curriculum does not make (much of) a difference. You will teach yourself the material for Step 1. I urge you, and others, to consider the clinical curriculum instead. Questions people should ask are: how much responsibility do students get? how much procedural guidance is there? do they enjoy having medical students around? are there too many students on a team? how much scut is there? are there international electives available (if interested)? because the clinical curriculum/grades is what makes up the most important parts of your Dean's letter, transcript, AOA qualification, letters of recommendation, etc.

Unless you interview every single person and they answered honestly, I can't tell you. ~50% get their first choice, and some ~75% get their top 3 choices. Everyone has different preferences. In those four years, you may find a SO and couples match to a less-competitive program to stay together. You may decide you like rural medicine and eschew top programs (usually located in cities). You may find that a less-competitive program has really fun faculty and residents, while the big name program is malignant. You may find that what is important to you now is not important at all in four years.

That being said, both programs don't limit you in terms of where they go. Geographically, there's a bias towards the East Coast (more so UVA than Case, but it makes sense, no?). I can tell you there are big name programs in their respective fields so they both do wonderfully. At the same time, I know someone who matched to the #1 program in their surgical field...but it was actually his 5th choice. Conversely, there are dozens who match to the #10-50 program in their fields, but it was their #1 choice. So in the end, who is happiest? All you should take away from the match lists is that neither UVA nor Case will limit you in where you go, and for 50% of the matches, it was that student's #1 choice. Sorry that was not the answer you wanted, but that's the reality of things.

This was an extremely enlightening response, thank you so much. It is definitely good to hear perspective from someone with your experience. From what you said, it definitely doesn't seem like there is a wrong answer to my decision, and I will definitely be mulling over everything you have said. None of this will matter 10 years down the road, I'm sure!

Once again, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to tell me all this!

 

[afob100]

For what it's worth comparing UVA vs CWRU for Step 2 CK performance:

UVA Avg Step 2 CK 249 with 100% pass rate for 2014:
http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/usmle2-14.pdf

versus from CRWU website:
"USMLE Step 2 Clinical Knowledge (CK): 95% of Case students pass on the first attempt. Our students' scores for this same time frame are 229 (23) compared to 228 (23) nationally."

 

[PocketAA]

For what it's worth comparing UVA vs CWRU for Step 2 CK performance:

UVA Avg Step 2 CK 249 with 100% pass rate for 2014:
http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/usmle2-14.pdf

versus from CRWU website:
"USMLE Step 2 Clinical Knowledge (CK): 95% of Case students pass on the first attempt. Our students' scores for this same time frame are 229 (23) compared to 228 (23) nationally."

Wow, very informative thank you! Are you a current UVA student?

 

[Lamel]

They both have a highly regarded reputation, and they are both excellent medical schools. Go wherever you prefer.