2009-2010 Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine Application Thread

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dont put all your eggs in one basket... especially in a new school... you cant honestly think that a billion dollar school could open without some "under the table" dealings? i wouldnt be surprised if some of the charter class seats were even bought... they are a private school... they can do as they please... if we cant get a seat there because of the Carilion/Roanoke bureaucracy... well we will go elsewhere... no biggie...

it is completely ridiculous to think that any one of us are significant enough to actually be bothered by the protocols established by a school... honestly, what power does some pion pre-med wield anyways? we dont even have enough clout to clean their shoes let alone complain about their policies... because at the end of the day... no matter how good your GPA, MCAT scores, research, and CCs are, there are 100,000 other clones just like you all wrapped in a big bow and expecting every medical school to just embrace them with arms wide open and a thankful smile... its sad, really... if you want to be MVP, you should have considered baseball instead of medicine...
 
Freezer said:
dont put all your eggs in one basket... especially in a new school... you cant honestly think that a billion dollar school could open without some "under the table" dealings? i wouldnt be surprised if some of the charter class seats were even bought... they are a private school... they can do as they please... if we cant get a seat there because of the Carilion/Roanoke bureaucracy... well we will go elsewhere... no biggie...

it is completely ridiculous to think that any one of us are significant enough to actually be bothered by the protocols established by a school... honestly, what power does some pion pre-med wield anyways? we dont even have enough clout to clean their shoes let alone complain about their policies... because at the end of the day... no matter how good your GPA, MCAT scores, research, and CCs are, there are 100,000 other clones just like you all wrapped in a big bow and expecting every medical school to just embrace them with arms wide open and a thankful smile... its sad, really... if you want to be MVP, you should have considered baseball instead of medicine...
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Not my point(s).

And it is very fair to criticize these schools for their protocols and policies. VTC is a brand new school, and the more I learn about, the less I like. They seem to have gone out of their way to reinvent the wheel of applying to med school, and from the posters on this thread, I am not the only applicant who is completely turned off by the school.

Also, you are prone to exaggeration. Where do you get the "100,000 clones" from? Last time I checked, approx 45k unique applicants to med school each year, and if you understand the math, half of them have very little chance at admissions anywhere...the pool of truly competitive med school applicants is much lower than you think.

I don't expect any school to open their arms and embrace me, but I do expect them to have understandable and reasonable application procedures, all above board dealings with the applicants - this revelation about special early admissions privileges for VTech students is ridiculous if true. From my perspective, VTC has failed in every respect in this their inaugural year.
 
flip26 said:
Not my point(s).

And it is very fair to criticize these schools for their protocols and policies. VTC is a brand new school, and the more I learn about, the less I like. They seem to have gone out of their way to reinvent the wheel of applying to med school, and from the posters on this thread, I am not the only applicant who is completely turned off by the school.

Also, you are prone to exaggeration. Where do you get the "100,000 clones" from? Last time I checked, approx 45k unique applicants to med school each year, and if you understand the math, half of them have very little chance at admissions anywhere...the pool of truly competitive med school applicants is much lower than you think.

I don't expect any school to open their arms and embrace me, but I do expect them to have understandable and reasonable application procedures, all above board dealings with the applicants - this revelation about special early admissions privileges for VTech students is ridiculous if true. From my perspective, VTC has failed in every respect in this their inaugural year.
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Good post.. It also seems like VTC is vying for high quality medical students with a significant amount of research experience (required research thesis, self-directed study).. You don't win over those kids with a novelty application. They'll just apply/go to proven campuses instead.
 
i am hoping that this school is not as shady as the rumors flying around roanoke suggest... but with that even said... they are only looking for 42 seats to fill... that will be ridiculously easy to fill with 5 star recruits, no matter how difficult the application procedure... in my opinion, the harder the application process = the more devoted the applicant = the more s**t a student will tolerate while their medical school works out all the kinks...

i am fine with being critical of a school... i just have a hard time with people expecting VTC to change their policy if they yell loud enough... quite honestly, every applicant should expect an experience at VTC unlike any other medical school out there... there will be a lot of problems... a student may even contemplate suing the school for fraud at times... this is just the name of the "new school" game... i guess i just find comfort in knowing that this atypical school is not hiding anything by giving us a typical application process...
 
Freezer said:
i am hoping that this school is not as shady as the rumors flying around roanoke suggest... but with that even said... they are only looking for 42 seats to fill... that will be ridiculously easy to fill with 5 star recruits, no matter how difficult the application procedure... in my opinion, the harder the application process = the more devoted the applicant = the more s**t a student will tolerate while their medical school works out all the kinks...

i am fine with being critical of a school... i just have a hard time with people expecting VTC to change their policy if they yell loud enough... quite honestly, every applicant should expect an experience at VTC unlike any other medical school out there... there will be a lot of problems... a student may even contemplate suing the school for fraud at times... this is just the name of the "new school" game... i guess i just find comfort in knowing that this atypical school is not hiding anything by giving us a typical application process...
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The way I see it, the incoming class will be guinea pigs. They will be jumping so many hoops, with lots of mandatory class time, and extra bull****, that it could be a nightmare experience until the students raise enough hell to get the admin to tone down the "special" stuff and just focus on giving students a high quality education and clinical experience.

I am disappointed because I am a VA resident, and I don't live too far away from this place, and I wasted my money sending them a primary before I fully understood the "magic" they were conjuring up there. Should I get one, I won't bother to fill out the secondary to this place on a dare...I literally have zero interest in the school now.
 
and i just want to say, i am sorry if any of my posts seriously offend any of you... a lot of my frustrations are with people in roanoke, and not necessarily you guys... here in town, this school is the subject of a lot of heated debates... a lot of my outbursts are the result of this... i talked to one guy last week who wanted to "become a city council member and work to shut down the school because it allowed 1st and 2nd year MS to work with patients"... in his opinion, he felt this was Carilion's way of putting money before patient safety... oh and the "Roanoke applicants shouldnt have to pay tuition becuase their city taxes already payed for the school" argument is simply priceless...
 
Freezer said:
i am hoping that this school is not as shady as the rumors flying around roanoke suggest
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Wait a second, what are the rumors? I haven't heard anything that bad. It does seem that the school is going to expect more out of the med students than most schools. And most schools expect a lot. I'm not sure if some of this stuff is going to be able to fly unless they require a 5th year. And one of those years should be supported by a research stipend if research is required.

Maybe the premeds don't have enough weight, but I don't imagine it will be very hard to organize a group of 42 classmates if the inaugural class feels like it's being mistreated. I'm sure the school will want to stay in the good graces of its students. Imagine how much bad publicity the school would get if the students publicly criticized the school. It'd be like the MD equivalent of Rocky Vista University. Except this school is not for profit. Ostensibly.
 
a lot of the roanoke discussions i am involved in are based on the following statement from the VTC website:

"Our research program is fully integrated throughout four years of study and requires the student to produce a hypothesis-driven research project of publishable caliber as a requirement of graduation"

what we all should all be asking is

1. Do we need to fund our own research? Are we allowed to fund our own research?

2. Do we receive authorship credit for our research? It says "publishable caliber" but says nothing about us actually publishing. So if we don't publish the results, who does? Some schools will allow research faculty to use students to do the work for them and then take full credit(or at least first authorship) in the published article. This is especially true if the research faculty puts forth the money for the project through their own grants.

3. Who decides if our research project is of publishable caliber? In graduate school, you have a committee who judges your thesis/dissertation. If they do not sign off on your project, you do not graduate until they do. This isnt a problem for people in a PhD/MD program because their tuition is usually payed for through a research stipend for up to 8 years or more. But VTC has no such stipend. So what happens for the MS4 student who has a committee not willing to sign off on a project? Do they have to pay for another year of school? Do they get kicked out of school?

4. Not all research is perfect. It may have a strong begining but through unforseen circumstances, the project may fall apart. It may lose funding or it may even become illegal (eg some forms of stem cell research). It may have had a strong initial hypothesis but was not practical in its results. A 2 year project in reality can take up to 6 or more years. Results cannot be rushed. Its the essence of good science. How does VTC plan on treating these situations?


i could care less about the application process... its these types of questions that concern me...
 
I actually regret sending them my primary. I think many people, like me, applied because they are a new school and thought it was probably easier to get in but now I'm not so sure. I also find it sketchy that there is no contact information for their admissions office posted on their site.
 
TAWS said:
I actually regret sending them my primary. I think many people, like me, applied because they are a new school and thought it was probably easier to get in but now I'm not so sure. I also find it sketchy that there is no contact information for their admissions office posted on their site.
Click to expand...


i dont think they even have an official admissions office just yet... they have a suite across the street from the place where the medical school is currently being built... i really think the contact information they list is serving all of their department needs for the time being:

1 Riverside Circle Suite 102
Roanoke, VA 24016
Phone: (540) 581-0130
Fax: (540) 983-1113
 
Freezer said:
a lot of the roanoke discussions i am involved in are based on the following statement from the VTC website:

"Our research program is fully integrated throughout four years of study and requires the student to produce a hypothesis-driven research project of publishable caliber as a requirement of graduation"

what we all should all be asking is

1. Do we need to fund our own research? Are we allowed to fund our own research?

2. Do we receive authorship credit for our research? It says "publishable caliber" but says nothing about us actually publishing. So if we don't publish the results, who does? Some schools will allow research faculty to use students to do the work for them and then take full credit(or at least first authorship) in the published article. This is especially true if the research faculty puts forth the money for the project through their own grants.

3. Who decides if our research project is of publishable caliber? In graduate school, you have a committee who judges your thesis/dissertation. If they do not sign off on your project, you do not graduate until they do. This isnt a problem for people in a PhD/MD program because their tuition is usually payed for through a research stipend for up to 8 years or more. But VTC has no such stipend. So what happens for the MS4 student who has a committee not willing to sign off on a project? Do they have to pay for another year of school? Do they get kicked out of school?

4. Not all research is perfect. It may have a strong begining but through unforseen circumstances, the project may fall apart. It may lose funding or it may even become illegal (eg some forms of stem cell research). It may have had a strong initial hypothesis but was not practical in its results. A 2 year project in reality can take up to 6 or more years. Results cannot be rushed. Its the essence of good science. How does VTC plan on treating these situations?


i could care less about the application process... its these types of questions that concern me...
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Chill out. Plenty of schools have a research requirement. The reason they say publishable caliber is (likely) because they want all students to have a project, but (like you mentioned) sometimes things don't work out as well as you'd like. You can still get a PhD without having a paper (rare, but it happens.)

As for whether the student is getting credit or the PI, that's an issue that grad students have to deal with too. It really depends on department support of students as well as the PI's personality.

The program is designed to be completed in 4 years. If you have a project that isn't publishable by then, I don't see them delaying your degree another year. It's a professional degree after all, not a research degree.

Edit: These are all excellent concerns to bring up at interview day, by the way. The research becoming illegal thing, not so much.
 
not so calm now said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Chill out. Plenty of schools have a research requirement. The reason they say publishable caliber is (likely) because they want all students to have a project, but (like you mentioned) sometimes things don't work out as well as you'd like. You can still get a PhD without having a paper (rare, but it happens.)

As for whether the student is getting credit or the PI, that's an issue that grad students have to deal with too. It really depends on department support of students as well as the PI's personality.

The program is designed to be completed in 4 years. If you have a project that isn't publishable by then, I don't see them delaying your degree another year. It's a professional degree after all, not a research degree.

Edit: These are all excellent concerns to bring up at interview day, by the way. The research becoming illegal thing, not so much.
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but they state that a research project of publishable caliber is a requirement for graduation... its not optional, it is a requirement... after what i personally saw in graduate school, i just want to have all these loose ends sorted out before i make any decisions...

i know the "illegal" thing was a little extreme... but just an example of what can go wrong during research that popped in my head at the time... hehehe
 
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FYI -
Sorry, we've had some delays in getting our online secondary application ready to go. We tested it today, and everything seems to be working fine. Emails will be sent out this week to those applicants invited to submit secondary applications.

Just to correct some misinformation posted earlier, there is no early decision program at VTCSOM. While Virginia residents compose the largest applicant group so far, we hope to select students from across the country for our charter class of 42.

We welcome calls if you have any questions.

VTCSOM Admissions
(540) 581-0136
 
TAWS said:
I actually regret sending them my primary. I think many people, like me, applied because they are a new school and thought it was probably easier to get in
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This is true of all new med schools. Just look at TCMC from last year.

New med schools usually get sh*tload of applications in their inaugural year from people with extremely low stats (we're talking like MCAT<25 and GPA<3.2) who basically have no chance of getting in anywhere. They apply thinking that it will be easier to get into because it is a new school and not a lot of people will have heard about it.
 
sorry guys... totally feel sheepish for jumping the gun on the rumor mill...
 
Demas567 said:
This is true of all new med schools. Just look at TCMC from last year.

New med schools usually get sh*tload of applications in their inaugural year from people with extremely low stats (we're talking like MCAT<25 and GPA<3.2) who basically have no chance of getting in anywhere. They apply thinking that it will be easier to get into because it is a new school and not a lot of people will have heard about it.
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Why not just go DO... sheesh! I've got good stats and I'm still considering DO. I've got a friend w/ a 2.7 that was trying to apply to MD schools this year... I had to have a good talk with her and show her the way to a DO acceptance next year after retaking some classes.
 
Freezer said:
but they state that a research project of publishable caliber is a requirement for graduation... its not optional, it is a requirement... after what i personally saw in graduate school, i just want to have all these loose ends sorted out before i make any decisions...

i know the "illegal" thing was a little extreme... but just an example of what can go wrong during research that popped in my head at the time... hehehe
Click to expand...

Right. That's why they said "of publishable caliber" instead of "you have to publish a paper to graduate from this school"

I really don't understand what you guys are getting so upset about. The PPI is a 20some question survey your letter writers could complete in 15 minutes tops, including registering for the site. I definitely think it's silly, useless, and probably being done so instead of actually reading letters the adcom can use a formula, but is it really worth not sending in the 2ndary?

Other than that, what's so different about this school? It's PBL (which some people hate), but other than that, it seems like it's shaping up to be a pretty typical medical school. And that's probably a good thing.

If you read school's websites, all of them talk like they have the most unique program in America, that the opportunities students have there are completely exclusive, etc. This one is no different, but just happens to be new. It's not surprising they're putting lots of emphasis on research. VCOM, a nearby DO school, emphasizes primary care.

I think the small class size is nice. I'm a VA resident and I'm definitely still planning on applying (assuming I get the 2ndary).
 
not so calm now said:
Right. That's why they said "of publishable caliber" instead of "you have to publish a paper to graduate from this school"

I really don't understand what you guys are getting so upset about. The PPI is a 20some question survey your letter writers could complete in 15 minutes tops, including registering for the site. I definitely think it's silly, useless, and probably being done so instead of actually reading letters the adcom can use a formula, but is it really worth not sending in the 2ndary?

Other than that, what's so different about this school? It's PBL (which some people hate), but other than that, it seems like it's shaping up to be a pretty typical medical school. And that's probably a good thing.

If you read school's websites, all of them talk like they have the most unique program in America, that the opportunities students have there are completely exclusive, etc. This one is no different, but just happens to be new. It's not surprising they're putting lots of emphasis on research. VCOM, a nearby DO school, emphasizes primary care.

I think the small class size is nice. I'm a VA resident and I'm definitely still planning on applying (assuming I get the 2ndary).
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Not upset. Just greatly annoyed...and not interested in jumping through the hoops necessary to get into VTC.
 
I wonder how the research will be carried out. The vast majority of the research VTCSOM lists on their website is done in Blacksburg by existing VT faculty. That's about 1 hour from Roanoke. With limited research labs in Roanoke, will most students be commuting back and forth to research? Commuting like that could eat up significant gas and time. Interstate 81 is not an easy drive either.

Hopefully VTC-Admin can chime in.

Thanks.
 
perromaxfilm said:
I wonder how the research will be carried out. The vast majority of the research VTCSOM lists on their website is done in Blacksburg by existing VT faculty. That's about 1 hour from Roanoke. With limited research labs in Roanoke, will most students be commuting back and forth to research? Commuting like that could eat up significant gas and time. Interstate 81 is not an easy drive either.

Hopefully VTC-Admin can chime in.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


Hmmm, that's a really good point. I imagine most students will probably choose to live in Roanoke. Even though it looks like research time is blocked off on their sample schedule, that's still not accounting for the drive to Blacksburg and back every day. I know I would not want to make that commute.
 
Well, just wondering if anyone had received anything yet.

It's now the end of week 2 of "people will receive things" and here I find the thread eerily calm.

Anyone?

Bueller...

:luck:
 
bamtuba said:
Well, just wondering if anyone had received anything yet.

It's now the end of week 2 of "people will receive things" and here I find the thread eerily calm.

Anyone?

Bueller...

:luck:
Click to expand...

There still about 5 hours of the work week left. Hopefully it'll come soon :scared::scared:
 
Do we still need to do the ETS PPI thing if we use a pre-health committee for recommendations?
 
YouToo said:
Do we still need to do the ETS PPI thing if we use a pre-health committee for recommendations?
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Yes, you have to have at least three in addition to the committee letters.

I also just got the secondary...let it begin!
 
im soooo excited to get this secondary!! =)

and the best part is their LOR system will keep the number of apps low

hehe.. =)

i love getting screened in for schools it makes me feel special =)
 
The ETS PPI form is just a series of ratings right? No short answer questions?

I would feel much comfortable if that's all it was because I don't want to bother my recommenders that much and I don't think they would mind filling out a checklist.
 
I also got a secondary. I hope the screening was thorough 🙂
 
Life Experience Essay

Describe an experience in your life that was instrumental in shaping you as a person and will help you contribute as a student at VTCSOM.


Life Experience Essay File Name:
Life Experience Essay File Type:

Innovation Essay

Considering the mission of VTCSOM, describe your experience in a project that used innovation and creativity.


Innovation Essay File Name:
Innovation Essay File Type:

Update Essay (optional):

Use this optional essay opportunity to update the information you provided in your AMCAS application on your recent experiences, such as medical volunteering, shadowing, community service, research experience, leadership or teamwork experience, and work experience. Please do not repeat information already reported in your AMCAS application. For the optional essay below, please limit your responses to about 3500 characters (1 page, 1-inch margins, 12-point, single-spaced) and leave one blank line between paragraphs.
 
Just found out that it costs $20 for EACH PPI you send out. So that makes it at least $60 more to apply to this school, and up to $100 more if you send the max 5 PPIs.

For a total of $145, this is officially the most expensive secondary. 😡

Edit: nevermind, I apparently can't read. It's $20 per packet; each packet can include up to 5 evaluations. Still, $105 is not cheap.
 
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not so calm now said:
Just found out that it costs $20 for EACH PPI you send out. So that makes it at least $60 more to apply to this school, and up to $100 more if you send the max 5 PPIs.

For a total of $145, this is officially the most expensive secondary. 😡
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You sure about that? The way I read it was that it costs $20 to send it to a school, not to one of your rec writers. So the total cost would only be $20.
 
got this secondary too... though I'm really unsure about how I'm going to go about doing this LOR thing...

no one is IN our school right now- everyone is on BREAK =.=;
 
This new Rec system was more of a wake-up call than anything. I realized that, out of the 5 recs that I have, I am only comfortable in asking 1 of the letters writers. The others...well, I can't bother them again. I guess this shows something about my relationship with the letter writers and the quality of my letters. Well, bye bye VTC! :laugh:
 
I know it's typically not acceptable to use high school activities in your application unless you keep up with it in college. But would it be acceptable to write about something that happened in high school for the "innovative and creative" essay? It was at a summer program at a university, so I can somehow justify it. I just wanted other SDN opinions.
 
I was almost tempted to email my letter writers to ask them if they'd be willing to fill out this ETS thing for this school when I received my secondary today. Then I thought about it... I graduated 2 years ago, the proffs I had write my letters were from freshmen and sophomore year so it's been more than 4 years since I've had any contact with them, even if they agreed to do this how the h*ll would they remember me well enough to fill out a personal evaluation?? I could easily get some of these filled out by my PI at my lab and the doctors I've shadowed, but apparently I need to also get one from a science proff. This LOR system is pretty unfair for folks who've been out of school for some time...
 
A question for the VTC admin guy:

According to the email, the "minimum criteria" for "consideration" to reach the interview stage is demonstration of leadership, among other things, which would have been in the primary app and thus begs the question: did VTC screen the AMCAS for this, or is it possible one could send in the secondary and go through all of this bull**** and THEN get dinged for not having what they deem satisfactory "leadership."

From the reports on this thread, it sounds like they didn't screen anything and have flooded the market with secondary apps...my guess is that they have NOT gotten the number of primaries they hoped for and are scrambling a bit - they are already kind of late in this process getting these out (Stanford and other established schools can get away with it, but not a new school like VTC), and the app process promises to be very dragged out with the PPI requirement as people have to wait until returning to school in September to beg people to fill this out.
 
Why is everyone being so harsh? 🙁
If you think the application is too much or something about the school isn't what you were looking for, then apply somewhere else. There are over 100 medical schools in the country, so there is no shortage of choices for which to send your primaries (and secondaries) to. Yes, VA Tech is doing things differently, but that's their choice. I'm sure they are getting plenty of applicants, just as every other school does.
 
Sweetpea MD said:
Why is everyone being so harsh? 🙁
If you think the application is too much or something about the school isn't what you were looking for, then apply somewhere else. There are over 100 medical schools in the country, so there is no shortage of choices for which to send your primaries (and secondaries) to. Yes, VA Tech is doing things differently, but that's their choice. I'm sure they are getting plenty of applicants, just as every other school does.
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amen!
 
Come on keep up the heated bashing. I'm not even applying to VT and love coming to this thread for all the anger. Better than a soap opera.
 
not so calm now said:
Wow, it's kind of sad for VTC that they're losing so many applicants just by having this alternate eval system.
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That's right, don't apply 🙂 Better chance for me. I've got 4 eval requests already in. 👍
 
Sweetpea MD said:
Why is everyone being so harsh? 🙁
If you think the application is too much or something about the school isn't what you were looking for, then apply somewhere else. There are over 100 medical schools in the country, so there is no shortage of choices for which to send your primaries (and secondaries) to. Yes, VA Tech is doing things differently, but that's their choice. I'm sure they are getting plenty of applicants, just as every other school does.
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AMEN x 2
I think it's kinda sad that we still haven't moved past this whole "OMG I hate LOR" thing. Some of us are really interested in this school. I completely understand that there are just as many who absolutely hate it's existence. But, if you hate it so much, why is it necessary to continually drag out the argument by posting [basically] the same insult every day.
 
KSands said:
I know it's typically not acceptable to use high school activities in your application unless you keep up with it in college. But would it be acceptable to write about something that happened in high school for the "innovative and creative" essay? It was at a summer program at a university, so I can somehow justify it. I just wanted other SDN opinions.
Click to expand...


I think it would be ok for you to use it, but I wouldn't use only that example. Talk about something else that you did in college as well--even if it is different. Then they can see that you have continued to be innovative and creative, even if it was a totally different situation.
 
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