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2015-2016 Harvard Medical School Application Thread
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First of all, congrats to all the people getting IIs!
Interviewing here (and at any MD school really) is an extremely exciting and humbling experience. I sincerely hope that you will all have a great experience at HMS! I also hope that my classmates and I will be able to help you in your evaluation of HMS, and help you see if this is the right place.For those that haven't heard back, hang in there. It's a long interview season.
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I was complete on September 1st. Cannot believe this. I actually applied thinking I had no shot. LizzyM - 73. OOS.
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July 22
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Yep absolutely fly into Logan!
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I'm glad that you had a good experience here. For future interviewees, I would recommend that you take some time to wander around like avgn. I remember that student interactions were a weak spot when I interviewed as well. Whenever you get a post-interview feedback form, make sure that you include suggestions about how to improve the lunch/student interaction part of the day. As for the interviews, one of my interviewers spent a lot of time talking about the history of the land around HMS (lots of dairy farms), the Patriots, and some current events in Boston. If you get most of your news from Facebook, I'd recommend skimming some real news sites in the week before your interview. The other interviewer talked about his research on something or other (just smile and nod).
That mandatory attendance thing is tough sometimes. I don't like to nap in the afternoon, but I also prefer to work at night. That means that 8am classes can be tough. We're all still trying to fine-tune our personal schedules. As for the curriculum... Yeah, no one will shut up about it. Hopefully we're suffering to smooth out the rough edges for you folks next year. We just had our second exam yesterday and most everyone did fine. Lots of hangovers this morning, and several people will probably not remember tonight...
The students here are surprisingly cool. About once or twice a week, I pause in the middle of class and look around at my peers. They are all totally normal, down-to-earth people. Everyone is supportive and friendly (maybe not at 8am, but by 9 we're all awake). There's no snobbishness, and the P/F curriculum eliminates all competition. I am reminded during these pauses how lucky I am to be studying with some of the best minds of this generation, in an environment that supports and encourages our curiosity and success. It always makes me smile.
As mentioned, there is an "applicant lounge" upstairs from the admissions office (in that awesome atrium you saw in the picture). We were encouraged to use it during our down time if we wanted to read, work, make phone calls, etc. I went up there to check it out and make some calls in the afternoon. It was a nice room, with tables, desks, and a few semi-private work spaces. You probably shouldn't hole up there all day, but it's a nice resource if you need to get things done.
First of all, congrats to all the people getting IIs!
For those that haven't heard back, hang in there. It's a long interview season.
I second this completely. Just this week, I was talking with a friend here and she mentioned that she interviewed the first week and got in. I also know of several people who interviewed in January and were accepted. Don't over-think it too much, and don't try to game the system. Just give it your best and try to keep busy (it helps the time pass).
Hi everyone! Can any accepted applicants or recently interviewed people talk about the optional dinner the night before the interview? I'm looking into flights and if this is a fun event I'd love to attend, but it makes my flights $50 more expensive to book them early enough to get there on time (so not crazy more expensive, but still, is it worth it to get to meet more students?). Thanks for your help and congrats to everyone getting interview invites!!
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You gather around a long dinner table in a common room with pizza and soda. 5-6 students join you, as well as 3-5 of your fellow interviewees. I met more students at this than at the optional lunch the next day (due to classes going on), so if you want to meet more current students this is a good bet. However, they're all like first-years who generally don't say anything bad about med school because they haven't gotten over the "omg I'm in med school" phase yet. That's my personal opinion tho
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I am impressed by your insight.
This is something that I find exceedingly frustrating, and I think that it's hampering our ability to improve the new curriculum. Too many students are either starstruck or obsequious, and fail to confront the faculty about the problems with this new structure and material. Whether this is because they are young (HMS must have one of the lowest median ages of all the top schools), intimidated, or have been raised in an environment that encourages deference towards academic authorities, I don't know. As I've mentioned before, I'm an older, non-traditional student, and so my tolerance level for this type of b.s. is quite low. Faculty members with whom I've spoken have expressed their appreciation for my candor, since, apparently, I'm one of the few students who is willing to put forth serious and substantial criticisms of the new curriculum. Whether that is because I am more willing to speak my mind, or because I'm towards the tail end of the opinion spectrum, I don't know. And this is really not the forum for this kind of discussion. Nonetheless, I am encouraged by your perceptiveness.
And now step back and think about the effect of this type of mentality in a population of students who are supposed to be helping to improve a brand-new curriculum. Also try to reconcile what I've written here with my post just above.
I think you'll find that the students who sign up to speak to candidates are those who enjoy reliving the application process. Or, perhaps the most outgoing. In general, the older students don't live in Vandy so the sample at the dinner is skewed.
All the same, I appreciate the criticism. I almost exclusively asked questions of second year and more senior students when possible; it is up to candidates here and elsewhere to seek out the information they need.
For future applicants, you should consider the questions you find most important and plan to ask those to as many students as possible. Try to catch students between classes to get a better feel for the med school class.
I'm sorry to hear you feel this way, @the_ajax_kid. I think there have been clear moments where our class has clearly spoken out to advocate for changes. I am glad to hear that you're engaged in improving the curriculum!
All the same, I appreciate the criticism. I almost exclusively asked questions of second year and more senior students when possible; it is up to candidates here and elsewhere to seek out the information they need.
For future applicants, you should consider the questions you find most important and plan to ask those to as many students as possible. Try to catch students between classes to get a better feel for the med school class.
I'm sorry to hear you feel this way, @the_ajax_kid. I think there have been clear moments where our class has clearly spoken out to advocate for changes. I am glad to hear that you're engaged in improving the curriculum!
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Yeah, totally agree here. I also think there have been clear moments where our class has spoken out (and I'm on the older side of the bell curve for what it's worth), but there are definitely some people who will gloss over some of the weaker points of our curriculum. I don't necessarily think that this is because students are being disingenuous. Instead, I think it has more to do with the fact that many feel that the staff takes feedback seriously, and that a good chunk of the issues our class is experiencing will be taken care of. I know that I am not as vocal about it as I should be. I do however try my hardest to give constructive feedback when it is requested (via online surveys or after each session. I know a few of our classmates who take the same approach. There are also many that actually enjoy the curriculum despite its occasionally sloppy execution. This could also come down to some differences in each society's experience throughout the sessions (which is one of the main things that needs to be improved IMO).
Regardless, I'm definitely making a concerted effort to not be a cheerleader for HMS when interacting with students and to give honest criticisms (albeit with the limited perspective of an MS1). I hope my classmates will also be able to give genuine and useful feedback.
There is some great advice here by my classmates! At any school, make sure you go out of your way to really get a feel for the students and that you seek out genuine responses.
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Does anyone know what the dress code is for the dinner the night before?
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The invite described it as a casual event, so jeans/polo for guys or whatever you're traveling in? Just a guess though, perhaps someone who's been can confirm/deny this.
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It's a pizza event. Wear pajamas if you want, no one cares
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I got one too!! So crazy. I can't believe it.
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Hey all! Second year here chiming in. IDK what has been said or not, but just figured I'll add my impressions after almost 1.5 years here so students can come prepared to interview if they have any concerns.
I can only speak for myself, but I must say I have been extremely disappointed so far. From the administrations actions, to teaching, to bad management of classes, I can say that its consistently been annoyance after annoyance. Sure some things are fine, but all the little details add up. Many people point to the interview not being a reflection of the school (disorganized, they don't seem to care about you, etc), but I've found that it is quite the opposite. It is a pretty good indicator of how the school has acted.
I only know about HMS, so IDK if the things I've seen are the same in all medical schools, but please please please press current students for their real and down to earth opinions. Don't let yourself be wowed by the "HMS" name or by the starry eyed people who are content with the mediocrity here. Heres a list of the things I've found over the past year or so. If these interest or concern you, corroborate or disprove them as you will during interviews.
The good
- Doors will open because of the HMS name. Sad reality, but it is totally true. Not to say you would not have similar experiences at JHU, Penn, UCSF, etc.
- There is ton of research in the surrounding hospitals, and most faculty are willing to have you work with them. There is also a fair amount of funding for research years.
- Lots of clinical sites (can be a bad thing) allows for excellent centers in anything you are interested in (cancer, ent, surgery, etc)
- Boston is a great city to study. Lots of colleges in the area, and weather aside, it's a great atmosphere.
- Classmates will be incredibly interesting and accomplished. Being in such an environment can push you to the limit and help you achieve more (although it might also be toxic at parts, with everyone focusing too much on work.)
The bad:
- Administration is highly bureaucratic, and seems to care mainly about looking good. Thus, student concerns are often pushed aside for the "bigger picture". Examples of this: how they changed our boards date with no consultation, saying that there was transparency as soon as they made the change. When students have pressed for more information or with concerns, their stereotypical response is that everything will be ok. Sure, it will, but I'm sure we could all pass the boards on our own and save 100k on the preclinical years.
- While there are lots of clinical sites, and the school boasts of over 10k faculty, they are always having trouble finding faculty to teach, and keep sending students to far away sites (some over 1 hour away) during the PD classes (after paradoxically bragging that they could fit all their students in one hospital). For example, part of the motivation for the new curriculum is that they are having a hard trouble finding quality tutorial leaders for small groups. With such a large faculty this is unacceptable, and it just reflect how little incentive there is for doctors to teach us.
- Teaching is generally awful. There are a couple of gems here and there, but for the most part its highly fragmented, disorganized and low quality. Everyone has different experiences- with some sites/tutorials being great and other being awful. No professors seem to know what we have learned in other classes, and we end up having super detailed lectures that basically turn into Journal Clubs. Most students I know just study by themselves, finding tutorials and other small groups (which they keep forcing on us) a required waste of time. This might be different in the new curriculum, but TBH, it sounds awful. PBL is one of those shiny things that is hard to implement and only works for some people. Medicine is not really that complicated, its just very voluminous, so discussing simple questions ad nauseam is counterproductive.
- While there are great resources for research, and Harvard has TONS of money, trickle down economy is a lie. Theres a reason why our unit loan is among the highest, and some things are just old and worn down. Yes, the new rooms are very impressive, but the administration keeps failing to address bigger concerns such as horrible tech services, lack of power cords, etc.
I can only speak for myself, but I must say I have been extremely disappointed so far. From the administrations actions, to teaching, to bad management of classes, I can say that its consistently been annoyance after annoyance. Sure some things are fine, but all the little details add up. Many people point to the interview not being a reflection of the school (disorganized, they don't seem to care about you, etc), but I've found that it is quite the opposite. It is a pretty good indicator of how the school has acted.
I only know about HMS, so IDK if the things I've seen are the same in all medical schools, but please please please press current students for their real and down to earth opinions. Don't let yourself be wowed by the "HMS" name or by the starry eyed people who are content with the mediocrity here. Heres a list of the things I've found over the past year or so. If these interest or concern you, corroborate or disprove them as you will during interviews.
The good
- Doors will open because of the HMS name. Sad reality, but it is totally true. Not to say you would not have similar experiences at JHU, Penn, UCSF, etc.
- There is ton of research in the surrounding hospitals, and most faculty are willing to have you work with them. There is also a fair amount of funding for research years.
- Lots of clinical sites (can be a bad thing) allows for excellent centers in anything you are interested in (cancer, ent, surgery, etc)
- Boston is a great city to study. Lots of colleges in the area, and weather aside, it's a great atmosphere.
- Classmates will be incredibly interesting and accomplished. Being in such an environment can push you to the limit and help you achieve more (although it might also be toxic at parts, with everyone focusing too much on work.)
The bad:
- Administration is highly bureaucratic, and seems to care mainly about looking good. Thus, student concerns are often pushed aside for the "bigger picture". Examples of this: how they changed our boards date with no consultation, saying that there was transparency as soon as they made the change. When students have pressed for more information or with concerns, their stereotypical response is that everything will be ok. Sure, it will, but I'm sure we could all pass the boards on our own and save 100k on the preclinical years.
- While there are lots of clinical sites, and the school boasts of over 10k faculty, they are always having trouble finding faculty to teach, and keep sending students to far away sites (some over 1 hour away) during the PD classes (after paradoxically bragging that they could fit all their students in one hospital). For example, part of the motivation for the new curriculum is that they are having a hard trouble finding quality tutorial leaders for small groups. With such a large faculty this is unacceptable, and it just reflect how little incentive there is for doctors to teach us.
- Teaching is generally awful. There are a couple of gems here and there, but for the most part its highly fragmented, disorganized and low quality. Everyone has different experiences- with some sites/tutorials being great and other being awful. No professors seem to know what we have learned in other classes, and we end up having super detailed lectures that basically turn into Journal Clubs. Most students I know just study by themselves, finding tutorials and other small groups (which they keep forcing on us) a required waste of time. This might be different in the new curriculum, but TBH, it sounds awful. PBL is one of those shiny things that is hard to implement and only works for some people. Medicine is not really that complicated, its just very voluminous, so discussing simple questions ad nauseam is counterproductive.
- While there are great resources for research, and Harvard has TONS of money, trickle down economy is a lie. Theres a reason why our unit loan is among the highest, and some things are just old and worn down. Yes, the new rooms are very impressive, but the administration keeps failing to address bigger concerns such as horrible tech services, lack of power cords, etc.
D
deleted393595
Thanks for the insight Gotmedical. Does the deficit in teaching also extend to HST?
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Do you think that you would be less disappointed had you gone to another med school (i.e. is this combination of problems unusual at other med schools)? Is disappointment shared by your peers, or do you think you are in a (small) minority?
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Well, I just got an interview today. My LizzyM is a 67 also. And I also received that letter. I didn't think I had a shot but my advisor encouraged me to try. I'd say give it a shot!
Please apply! One of my favorite classmates here got one of those - same situation as you.
He applied, on a lark, and he's a rockstar student now! By the way, I had a chance to seal some of those letters. I sent all the good interview vibes I possibly could when closing them.
He applied, on a lark, and he's a rockstar student now! By the way, I had a chance to seal some of those letters. I sent all the good interview vibes I possibly could when closing them.
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Wow. Thank you. But, it's September.... If I apply now, I won't be complete until the end of September....
Isn't that impossibly late? When did your friend apply @youououa
You can pm me instead of posting here if you want...
I've never considered this school so I don't know what to do.
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Hey I got an II and my LizzyM is around a 67 too. Nothing is impossible and you'll never know unless you try!
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If you pay the fees and add the school online today, everything on your AMCAS will be transferred immediately to HMS. There are no secondary essays either so you would be complete tomorrow.
If you're not even applying this cycle, obviously don't apply this year. Just make a note for when you do apply to add Harvard. Also, the email doesn't mean you're being specifically targeted; it's just advertisement but as everyone said, if you like the school then you should apply.
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Just added to AMCAS. It's ridiculously late but, hey, it's Harvard. It's an absolute, total gamble. I'm no where near their median ranges for MCAT or GPA. Most of the schools I am applying to are low tier MD schools but the letter I got today was really interesting and supportive. I'm surprised no one else has posted about it here. Let's see what happens.
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I feel like it does not apply as strongly, as they are pretty separate, but you'd have to ask someone from HST. While they don't have tutorials/small groups (only on rare occasions), they do have required lecture. The administrative issues are probably similar, as many of the same offices apply, but they also have some separate key players that might make their experience better. I honestly have no idea.
I don't know. I feel like many things will be similar in many medical schools, and I've heard similar complaints from friends at other top schools. Other administrations do give the impression of better resources and support however, although that might also be a facade.
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Best of luck to you, man! I got an II and I'm also of the lower LizzyM variety.
As everyone has said multiple, multiple times, HMS is as non-rolling as a school could possibly be.
You can be sure of one thing: you won't get in if you don't apply.
You can be sure of one thing: you won't get in if you don't apply.
I'm not sure how you know this - I was in the office that sealed some of the letters and they definitely seemed to be targeted.
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What factors does Harvard consider in determining if someone is "disadvantaged?" My first thought was that they go off of whether or not you answered "yes" to the disadvantaged question in AMCAS, but how would Harvard get that information for applicants that didn't apply to them?
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Tradition has it that the ghost of John Harvard slips through the cracks of the large AMCAS castle on K street and collects a list of applicants. He then meets with Elihu Yale at the Charles River and they place the names in large tophat. On labor day, when Americans are enjoying their barbecues and families, they enjoy a glass of Hennessy and draw names out of the tophat. The names that John pulls out are forwarded to Harvard SOM while Elihu forwards his names to Yale SOM. They then depart back to their respective campuses and watch as desperate, anxious, and nervous pre-meds get their dreams crushed, only to meet again on the Charles River next year.
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I believe the info comes from Med Mar. If I recall correctly, there is an option when you finish the mcat to have your name sent out to schools for recruitment purposes.
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Do you mind sharing when you submitted your secondary?
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Anyone know how long it takes for Harvard to give you an answer post interview?
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Welcome to the non-rolling world. First week of March, both historically and as we were told on interview day this year.
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Yeah, I had just answered my own question. Didn't want to believe it!
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Do the minimum, otherwise it's just extraneous information
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LOOL, never thought I'd see this on the Harvard thread
Taken completely out of context, this is excellent advice for getting into med school, especially at Harvard
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Thank you for reminding me about this.
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Did anyone else have a delay in their LORs being sent here? I submitted my secondary but it still says they are missing my letters and I double checked AMCAS to see if I assigned them to here and I did, so not sure if I'm missing something!
D
deleted393595
When were you complete?
Late August!
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Interviewed here recently. I didn't mind the unstructured-ness of the interview day, it was actually very refreshing having the time to explore on my own. I spent most of it talking to my fellow interviewees and talking to students in the TMEC.
Also, this is a reminder to be mindful of your online presence/what shows up when your name is Googled! My interviewers both brought up something from my background that I did not touch upon too much in my primary and secondary essays. They did not specifically say "we found this thing you did..." but it is something that shows up in the first five pages of Google search results for me. I was taken aback at first, but then thought of it this way: they actually cared about me enough to look me up! We discussed that aspect of my life at length. It wasn't anything bad at all, but was just something I did not think to mention in my app as it wasn't really medicine-related, despite the impact it had on my formative years. Glad they did bring it up though, made for interesting conversation.
Also, this is a reminder to be mindful of your online presence/what shows up when your name is Googled! My interviewers both brought up something from my background that I did not touch upon too much in my primary and secondary essays. They did not specifically say "we found this thing you did..." but it is something that shows up in the first five pages of Google search results for me. I was taken aback at first, but then thought of it this way: they actually cared about me enough to look me up! We discussed that aspect of my life at length. It wasn't anything bad at all, but was just something I did not think to mention in my app as it wasn't really medicine-related, despite the impact it had on my formative years. Glad they did bring it up though, made for interesting conversation.
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Hey, sorry, didn't see this for a while. I was complete 7/28.
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IIs for NP and HST!
