2019-2020 University of Pennsylvania

Med School Insiders
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Anyone know the difference between the 21sr century award and the other v generous scholarships they are awarding?
 
hope_MD said:
Anyone know the difference between the 21sr century award and the other v generous scholarships they are awarding?
Click to expand...
21st century is merit based. Other scholarships (don’t explicitly say, but imply to be) need-based.
Mine and the other posters scholarships decently exceed tuition cost. Very generous indeed.
 
marcosma said:
just got the email for 21st century scholar!!!! :0 OUT OF THIS WORLD

it's full tuition and then a $10k/year STIPEND
Click to expand...

Congratulations! If I may ask, where did you see the additional 10k a year stipend for 21st century? Can’t seem to find that anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
moneymanziel said:
Congratulations! If I may ask, where did you see the additional 10k a year stipend for 21st century? Can’t seem to find that anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
Click to expand...

thank you! it could be that the awards are different? I'm not sure.

1584805961228.png
 
congratulations to everyone who received scholarships! That is an incredible accomplishment. Does anyone know if more merit scholarships will be coming out? Or did everything get sent on friday?
 
Did you folks who received the 21st century receive your official package from financial aid yet? I got the award last Friday too and the email said to look out for a follow up email from financial aid, but still waiting to hear from them.
 
Does anyone know the immunization requirements? They aren't listed on the portal and with COVID-19 it's going to be hard to get an appointment for them.
 
Anyone know if they’re considering starting online in August? I just signed a lease starting in August and now I’m worried it may have not been the best idea.
 
Hello all,

Current senior Penn Med student here. First of all, congrats on getting into Penn! That is a huge achievement and a reflection of your hard work over many years.

While I have enjoyed my time at Penn, I felt obligated to make you all aware of the current environment at the med school as you make decisions about where to spend the next 4+ years. Since a recent change in administration, many students are quite unhappy with the leadership and how it responds (doesn't respond) to student input. The last year has seen the sudden departure of several key administrators and faculty that were beloved by students and helped make Penn a great place. Without these people and with current leadership, I see a tough period coming up for the school.

I don't really want to dive into specifics and you shouldn't blindly trust my point of view. I would encourage you to reach out to current students through the Facebook group or whatever means available to get their opinions.

Lastly, don't be afraid to choose a med school based on financial aid! It is an incredibly expensive process without assistance and there are lots of great schools out there.

Best of luck and you'll end up somewhere awesome!
 
PMECO2020 said:
Hello all,

Current senior Penn Med student here. First of all, congrats on getting into Penn! That is a huge achievement and a reflection of your hard work over many years.

While I have enjoyed my time at Penn, I felt obligated to make you all aware of the current environment at the med school as you make decisions about where to spend the next 4+ years. Since a recent change in administration, many students are quite unhappy with the leadership and how it responds (doesn't respond) to student input. The last year has seen the sudden departure of several key administrators and faculty that were beloved by students and helped make Penn a great place. Without these people and with current leadership, I see a tough period coming up for the school.

I don't really want to dive into specifics and you shouldn't blindly trust my point of view. I would encourage you to reach out to current students through the Facebook group or whatever means available to get their opinions.

Lastly, don't be afraid to choose a med school based on financial aid! It is an incredibly expensive process without assistance and there are lots of great schools out there.

Best of luck and you'll end up somewhere awesome!
Click to expand...

Please, dive into specifics and give us more of your point of view.
 
Hi everyone!

You are absolutely right to doubt my identity. I could be someone trying to move the waitlist (though Penn's doesn't usually move much), or even a plant from a competing med school trying to ruin Penn's yield. I'm not, but that's not the point. It's the internet and people lie.

That's why I encourage you if you are accepted to reach out to current students through the facebook group and get verified info.

If you are looking for specific talking points, you can ask about:

1) The new dean
2) The departure of the registrar who has been at Penn for (I believe) 34 years
3) Pre-clinical microbio and the former instructor
4) The former associate curriculum director
5) The timing of graduation

In terms of the new account, I am not keen on identifying myself to the current administration or residency programs even though I'm not doing anything wrong. You'll also find you don't look at SDN once you start med school.

And yes, it's right before you have to settle on a place. That timing is intentional.

To clarify what I meant by financial aid, that was a big factor in me coming to Penn and I don't regret it.
 
PMECO2020 said:
3) Pre-clinical microbio and the former instructor
Click to expand...

For what it’s worth, my student hosts did mention there was some weirdness with a course instructor suddenly leaving and the admin being rather unprepared to fill the spot adequately. Don’t remember if it was microbio or not but they were all MS1s so it was at least a preclinical class.
 
Hi Everyone,

I just want to address this post. My name is Michael Perez, an MS3 here at Penn Med. I'm affiliated with several groups here including LMSA and our FGLI group. During my time here, I've been fortunate enough to work closely with administration on a range of initiatives and can attest to the responsiveness and support of our current leadership. It seems that a colleague of mine is concerned about several key figures at our school. Therefore, I will respond to each one of those concerns to best assist prospective students deciding on schools.

1) The new dean
Our new Senior Vice Dean of Education has been here since 2018. She is extremely interested in medical education and has been actively reviewing the effectiveness of all of our senior deans. As a result, she has appointed several new deans to best support our education and our students. Our newest dean of clinical education, is a beloved clerkship director who is celebrated amongst all of the clerkship students. As a clerkship director, she was amongst the first to change the clerkship shelf exam to pass/fail so we could concentrate on our clinical education and not an exam. Another newly promoted dean, is our dean of student success. She has worked tirelessly for the past 4 weeks to create over 40 virtual electives for senior medical students. On top of that, she has reached out to all MS3s to provide support and check-in that our needs are being met. We happened to have just spoken this morning regarding my Step exam. Finally, our new dean of admissions is extremely energetic and committed to a supportive, diverse, and welcoming class of students. These new faces in leadership are a testimony to the interests and effectiveness of our new dean. When speaking to my friends at other schools, we have probably been the most well supported during Coronavirus.

2) Our registrar
Our beloved registrar for a long time is now retiring. After 30+ years having dedicated herself to Penn Med, it is reasonable she wants to enjoy her life outside of work. She will be deeply missed by many of us. Fortunately, there is a great staff in that office that is working hard in her place. We also are fortunate to have several other supportive administrators (ask other current students you've spoken to).

3) Microbio
Yes, there was a change in Microbio course directors this past year. Transitions are not always smooth, however, MS1s did well in the course and benefit from having microbio revisited in all of the organ systems. The preclinical administrators are aware of this feedback and are working towards improving that course for next year.

4) Former Curriculum Dean
I don't find it worthwhile commenting about someone who doesn't have a role in our education.

5)Timing of graduation
ALL schools are struggling with graduation right now. We will be having a virtual ceremony. It's not ideal, but this is not only a Penn Med problem because we are simply in a global pandemic.

Takeaways: Penn Med has very supportive leadership and administrators which has been extremely apparent throughout the Coronavirus Pandemic. If you truly want to come to Penn, you should not hesitate to attend here just because of an SDN post. Reach out to us current students, we'd all be more than happy to tell you about our time here and how much we've enjoyed our time at Penn Med. If you still remain unsure, please PM me or reach out to admissions to put you in contact with other students.


PMECO2020 said:
Hi everyone!

You are absolutely right to doubt my identity. I could be someone trying to move the waitlist (though Penn's doesn't usually move much), or even a plant from a competing med school trying to ruin Penn's yield. I'm not, but that's not the point. It's the internet and people lie.

That's why I encourage you if you are accepted to reach out to current students through the facebook group and get verified info.

If you are looking for specific talking points, you can ask about:

1) The new dean
2) The departure of the registrar who has been at Penn for (I believe) 34 years
3) Pre-clinical microbio and the former instructor
4) The former associate curriculum director
5) The timing of graduation

In terms of the new account, I am not keen on identifying myself to the current administration or residency programs even though I'm not doing anything wrong. You'll also find you don't look at SDN once you start med school.

And yes, it's right before you have to settle on a place. That timing is intentional.

To clarify what I meant by financial aid, that was a big factor in me coming to Penn and I don't regret it.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
mdoc96 said:
Hi Everyone,

I just want to address this post. My name is Michael Perez, an MS3 here at Penn Med. I'm affiliated with several groups here including LMSA and our FGLI group. During my time here, I've been fortunate enough to work closely with administration on a range of initiatives and can attest to the responsiveness and support of our current leadership. It seems that a colleague of mine is concerned about several key figures at our school. Therefore, I will respond to each one of those concerns to best assist prospective students deciding on schools.

1) The new dean
Our new Senior Vice Dean of Education has been here since 2018. She is extremely interested in medical education and has been actively reviewing the effectiveness of all of our senior deans. As a result, she has appointed several new deans to best support our education and our students. Our newest dean of clinical education, is a beloved clerkship director who is celebrated amongst all of the clerkship students. As a clerkship director, she was amongst the first to change the clerkship shelf exam to pass/fail so we could concentrate on our clinical education and not an exam. Another newly promoted dean, is our dean of student success. She has worked tirelessly for the past 4 weeks to create over 40 virtual electives for senior medical students. On top of that, she has reached out to all MS3s to provide support and check-in that our needs are being met. We happened to have just spoken this morning regarding my Step exam. Finally, our new dean of admissions is extremely energetic and committed to a supportive, diverse, and welcoming class of students. These new faces in leadership are a testimony to the interests and effectiveness of our new dean. When speaking to my friends at other schools, we have probably been the most well supported during Coronavirus.

2) Our registrar
Our beloved registrar for a long time is now retiring. After 30+ years having dedicated herself to Penn Med, it is reasonable she wants to enjoy her life outside of work. She will be deeply missed by many of us. Fortunately, there is a great staff in that office that is working hard in her place. We also are fortunate to have several other supportive administrators (ask other current students you've spoken to).

3) Microbio
Yes, there was a change in Microbio course directors this past year. Transitions are not always smooth, however, MS1s did well in the course and benefit from having microbio revisited in all of the organ systems. The preclinical administrators are aware of this feedback and are working towards improving that course for next year.

4) Former Curriculum Dean
I don't find it worthwhile commenting about someone who doesn't have a role in our education.

5)Timing of graduation
ALL schools are struggling with graduation right now. We will be having a virtual ceremony. It's not ideal, but this is not only a Penn Med problem because we are simply in a global pandemic.

Takeaways: Penn Med has very supportive leadership and administrators which has been extremely apparent throughout the Coronavirus Pandemic. If you truly want to come to Penn, you should not hesitate to attend here just because of an SDN post. Reach out to us current students, we'd all be more than happy to tell you about our time here and how much we've enjoyed our time at Penn Med. If you still remain unsure, please PM me or reach out to admissions to put you in contact with other students.
Click to expand...
Just want to second everything said in this post, as an MS2. The administration has done an impeccable job for us on clerkship with moving didactics/the lecture portion of clerkship to be virtual, while accommodating our clinic time for the expected return post COVID. They kept us safe, included our voices every step of the way in the planning process, and reacted swiftly to a completely unprecedented issue. I am really grateful to go to school here, and wish all of you luck in your decisions! Please feel free to DM me any questions.
 
Hi all!! Congrats to all of you on your admission(s) to med school!

I'm an MS4 and would like to echo what my classmate stated above. First, I would like to say that I have loved my time at Penn, have received excellent clinical training, and matched at my top choice for residency. I loved all my classmates, and the residents, fellows, and attendings students work with are truly phenomenal. However, I wholeheartedly share the concerns my classmate stated above about the new dean.

There have been a tremendous number of missteps made by the new dean in the past two years, some significant enough to be detrimental to student learning and wellness. The post by the MS3 above is not totally accurate. I'm sure he is not at all trying to be misleading, but may not be fully aware of the issues. I think as MS4s, our class knows the administrators very well and so our class is more privy to the issues currently going on in the administration. While I do not want to get in to specifics, I share the suggestion that you talk to current students when making your decision on what school to go to. Many, if not most in the MS4 class would probably tell you that if you have the option to attend a similar caliber medical school you should do so because at this time we are not confident in the current administration.
 
penn3645 said:
Hi all!! Congrats to all of you on your admission(s) to med school!

I'm an MS4 and would like to echo what my classmate stated above. First, I would like to say that I have loved my time at Penn, have received excellent clinical training, and matched at my top choice for residency. I loved all my classmates, and the residents, fellows, and attendings students work with are truly phenomenal. However, I wholeheartedly share the concerns my classmate stated above about the new dean.

There have been a tremendous number of missteps made by the new dean in the past two years, some significant enough to be detrimental to student learning and wellness. The post by the MS3 above is not totally accurate. I'm sure he is not at all trying to be misleading, but may not be fully aware of the issues. I think as MS4s, our class knows the administrators very well and so our class is more privy to the issues currently going on in the administration. While I do not want to get in to specifics, I share the suggestion that you talk to current students when making your decision on what school to go to. Many, if not most in the MS4 class would probably tell you that if you have the option to attend a similar caliber medical school you should do so because at this time we are not confident in the current administration.
Click to expand...

Ok, so we have 2 days to decide. Please do share the “tremendous number of missteps” that she’s made since being at Penn. I’ve asked lots of current students about it and nobody shares that sentiment. It’s hard to get in contact with MS4’s ... and if you really wanted to be helpful, maybe you could have served on a revisit panel. But, like I said, it’s 2 days before the deadline, and coming on here and saying “ohhh you should go ask current students about some vague questions” is really panic-inducing and not very helpful to us!!”

Please, just roast the new dean or whatever you want to do with specifics instead of putting some vague doubt in our heads. Please!
 
Last edited:
marcosma said:
Ok, so we have 2 days to decide. Please do share the “tremendous number of missteps” that she’s made since being at Penn. I’ve asked lots of current students about it and nobody shares that sentiment. It’s hard to get in contact with MS4’s ... and if you really wanted to be helpful, maybe you could have served on a revisit panel. But, like I said, it’s 2 days before the deadline, and coming on here and saying “ohhh you should go ask current students about some vague questions” is really panic-inducing and not very helpful to us!! “Many, if not most of us would probably tell you that if you have the option to attend another similar caliber medical school you should do so” - you know that we ALL have that option, right?

Please, just roast the new dean or whatever you want to do with specifics instead of putting some vague doubt in our heads. Please!
Click to expand...
I would PM him. He shared a lot of really insightful comments with me privately which frankly, make a lot of sense as to why there were so few MS3/MS4's at preview.

EDIT: Or you all can just PM me lol...and I can share what he said.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, Penn med student here. I felt I needed to chime in since there is a lot of confusion regarding the medical school, the new dean, etc. I am also using a "throwaway account" because frankly I don't feel comfortable with the administration reading my posts. The truth is that it's a mixed picture. Almost all the MS4's will tell you "this is not the same place as it was when I came here." That doesn't necessarily mean all the changes are bad. It's hard to pinpoint exactly why that is- perhaps it is because we fired a dean, hired a new dean, went pass/fail preclinical but raised pass to a 75, which increased the amount of people who fail. Perhaps it is the administration trying to shake things up and changing the rules. I know some MS3's are upset by the rule Dean Rose was enforcing where you had to take Step 1 at a certain time that she decided, when you were done with every single rotation. My understanding is as such- it was very common for people to not do a minor rotation like psych or emergency medicine due to illness, family emergency etc, and push it off to 4th year. It used to have no impact on their schooling- these rotations are not required for residency applications. So many MS3's had been studying for step 1 (which we take AFTER clinicals), were about to take it, and then were told they would not be able to. And due to the timing it totally messed up their ability to do away rotations, electives, etc. There was a certain amount of political dueling going on between the various deans, and ultimately one dean ended up changing the rules after the fact. There seems to be a lot of that going on lately, as the school is transitioning in a 'new direction,' whatever it may be.

I can speak to another thing that has been a source of frustration. Pass was raised to a 75, more people fail, and then the new dean made a new rule where failing 2 tests put you on 'academic watch,' which could convert into academic probation. So there is a lot of concern, and a lot of our Ms1's were surprised to get emails informing them they were now on academic watch. People are worried this will go on their permanent transcript and hurt their chances of residency applications.

There are a lot of political issues and a lot of changes going on right now, and the truth is, us students really don't know the half of what is going on. So I think a lot of the angst is just people feeling left in the dark. But I also want to address some of the excellent things about PSOM, that Michael so eloquently addressed in his post above.

-Many folks in the administration genuinely care about you and bend over backwards to help you
-They try not to penalize you for failing a test, and don't mark fail permanently on a transcript
-They are very good about allowing flexibility when it is needed during the core clerkships- if you have a sudden death in the family or get pneumonia, for example, no one is going to dock your grade for needing to be away for a few weeks
-They absolutely do listen to student feedback! I've never been to a place that sends out so many surveys. They want to know how you liked the lectures, the professors, the clerkship, the didactics, etc.
-The class is brilliant and diverse. Much more diverse than a lot of other schools I looked at, and that was a huge selling point for me. We also do a pretty good job of celebrating our diversity and have an awesome office of diversity and inclusion

I could go on. The point is, I think all the previous posters were correct- there are changes. People are unhappy. Some changes are bad. Some changes will probably be great. You need to make your decision based on the factors that are most important to you (for me it was location + diversity), and not based on other students opinions, or your parents, etc.

You can PM me for more info. Best of luck!
 
penn22philly said:
Hey guys, Penn med student here. I felt I needed to chime in since there is a lot of confusion regarding the medical school, the new dean, etc. I am also using a "throwaway account" because frankly I don't feel comfortable with the administration reading my posts. The truth is that it's a mixed picture. Almost all the MS4's will tell you "this is not the same place as it was when I came here." That doesn't necessarily mean all the changes are bad. It's hard to pinpoint exactly why that is- perhaps it is because we fired a dean, hired a new dean, went pass/fail preclinical but raised pass to a 75, which increased the amount of people who fail. Perhaps it is the administration trying to shake things up and changing the rules. I know some MS3's are upset by the rule Dean Rose was enforcing where you had to take Step 1 at a certain time that she decided, when you were done with every single rotation. My understanding is as such- it was very common for people to not do a minor rotation like psych or emergency medicine due to illness, family emergency etc, and push it off to 4th year. It used to have no impact on their schooling- these rotations are not required for residency applications. So many MS3's had been studying for step 1 (which we take AFTER clinicals), were about to take it, and then were told they would not be able to. And due to the timing it totally messed up their ability to do away rotations, electives, etc. There was a certain amount of political dueling going on between the various deans, and ultimately one dean ended up changing the rules after the fact. There seems to be a lot of that going on lately, as the school is transitioning in a 'new direction,' whatever it may be.

I can speak to another thing that has been a source of frustration. Pass was raised to a 75, more people fail, and then the new dean made a new rule where failing 2 tests put you on 'academic watch,' which could convert into academic probation. So there is a lot of concern, and a lot of our Ms1's were surprised to get emails informing them they were now on academic watch. People are worried this will go on their permanent transcript and hurt their chances of residency applications.

There are a lot of political issues and a lot of changes going on right now, and the truth is, us students really don't know the half of what is going on. So I think a lot of the angst is just people feeling left in the dark. But I also want to address some of the excellent things about PSOM, that Michael so eloquently addressed in his post above.

-Many folks in the administration genuinely care about you and bend over backwards to help you
-They try not to penalize you for failing a test, and don't mark fail permanently on a transcript
-They are very good about allowing flexibility when it is needed during the core clerkships- if you have a sudden death in the family or get pneumonia, for example, no one is going to dock your grade for needing to be away for a few weeks
-They absolutely do listen to student feedback! I've never been to a place that sends out so many surveys. They want to know how you liked the lectures, the professors, the clerkship, the didactics, etc.
-The class is brilliant and diverse. Much more diverse than a lot of other schools I looked at, and that was a huge selling point for me. We also do a pretty good job of celebrating our diversity and have an awesome office of diversity and inclusion

I could go on. The point is, I think all the previous posters were correct- there are changes. People are unhappy. Some changes are bad. Some changes will probably be great. You need to make your decision based on the factors that are most important to you (for me it was location + diversity), and not based on other students opinions, or your parents, etc.

You can PM me for more info. Best of luck!
Click to expand...
This is a really great post as it shows both sides of the story, but I don't think the posts here will change the matriculants' minds considering how last minute they are.
 
nymedschoolfan said:
This is a really great post as it shows both sides of the story, but I don't think the posts here will change the matriculants' minds considering how last minute they are.
Click to expand...

Valid point! I'm a second year and have no idea when people decide on med schools, but people in our class have been sending this thread around and I thought it would be important to contribute regardless.
 
penn3645 said:
Hi all!! Congrats to all of you on your admission(s) to med school!

I'm an MS4 and would like to echo what my classmate stated above. First, I would like to say that I have loved my time at Penn, have received excellent clinical training, and matched at my top choice for residency. I loved all my classmates, and the residents, fellows, and attendings students work with are truly phenomenal. However, I wholeheartedly share the concerns my classmate stated above about the new dean.

There have been a tremendous number of missteps made by the new dean in the past two years, some significant enough to be detrimental to student learning and wellness. The post by the MS3 above is not totally accurate. I'm sure he is not at all trying to be misleading, but may not be fully aware of the issues. I think as MS4s, our class knows the administrators very well and so our class is more privy to the issues currently going on in the administration. While I do not want to get in to specifics, I share the suggestion that you talk to current students when making your decision on what school to go to. Many, if not most in the MS4 class would probably tell you that if you have the option to attend a similar caliber medical school you should do so because at this time we are not confident in the current administration.
Click to expand...


Hi everyone! Sorry I haven't been on this thread for a few days, I kind of figured my first post was disregarded as trolling. I don't know when you have to hold one acceptance- rules are different now since I applied to med school in 2015-2016!

A few points given the current trajectory of this thread:

1) It sounds like the MS3s/MS4s (MS4 here) have a pretty different opinion from first and second years, probably because we were here when the school was in better shape.

2) Not commenting on a former administrator who was forced out by the current administration is not a fair response; that person (former associate curriculum director) was a student favorite and excellent at his job. He was abruptly moved from his office to a cubicle by the new dean and left shortly thereafter.

3) The registrar, though nearing retirement age, was not planning on leaving this year, but the administration has changed

4) The school was so unprepared for the sudden transition in microbio instructors that senior medical students were serving as small group facilitators. This role is normally filled by faculty or senior residents/fellows.

5) Timing of graduation- not sure why an MS3 is commenting on this since they have not been privy to the discussions between the graduating class and the administration. The administration has been very unresponsive with regards to student requests for graduation For example, they are unwilling to change the time of an online ceremony (9 am EST) even though this is 6 am on the west coast, where many students and family are located.

6) If you are wondering why there weren't more MS4s at previews, perhaps they are following the classic advice: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

7) Are the other schools you are considering having these issues? Were senior medical students present at their virtual second looks?

Please take all posts from current students with a grain of salt! I will work on responding to your private messages tonight and good luck with your decision. Remember, financial aid is incredibly important.
 
themrwhatevs1 said:
What happens after you Plan to Enroll here? Do we receive any email or portal change from UPenn? Submitted my Plan to Enroll a few days ago and have not heard anything since.
Click to expand...

I’ve been PTE since March and they never said anything. I don’t even think they could see who is PTE until today
 
Anyone know if/when we get deposits back after withdrawing? I thought we did but still haven’t gotten mine
 
For those who wrote a letter of interest, did you just upload it to your portal or did you email it as well?
 
ihmsfm123 said:
For those who wrote a letter of interest, did you just upload it to your portal or did you email it as well?
Click to expand...
I had just uploaded it to the portal, I did not see anywhere when I checked their website to email them about it as well
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

wysdoc
2024-2025 Pennsylvania (Perelman)
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
388
Views
157K
BrainStorm12
B
wysdoc
2024-2025 University of Washington
10 11 12 13 14
Replies
680
Views
152K
stew_md
S
wysdoc
2024-2025 University of Chicago (Pritzker)
12 13 14 15 16
Replies
778
Views
212K
X0001234
X0001234
wysdoc
2024-2025 Medical University of South Carolina
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
302
Views
60K
hbic2025
H
wysdoc
2024-2025 University of Central Florida (UCF)
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
318
Views
76K
LaurelePoole
L
Top