2020-2021 Meharry

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MotherofDragonflies said:
Pre-II R as well.
Well this week just keeps getting better and better.

Best of luck to everyone.
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Pre-II rejection; Completed 9/25; I felt this. God, I can't how **** this made me feel too. I feel defeated.
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Premedstudent2020 said:
Pre-II R. I was within their stats. I plan to serve underserved communities. My application was solid. I received interviews at schools with higher stats. I submitted my primary in June and secondary in September. Just confused and surprised.
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I think it’s important not to take this personal or internalize not get chosen for an interview. It sucks, but it isn’t a simple thing of “meeting” xyz requirement or threshold and getting an interview. I feel sometimes we lose sight of just how many other applicants there are who are just as well-qualified. Especially, since we are constantly seeing the same faces in SDN threads. SDN apparently only represents like 5% of applicants. I believe there were record numbers of applicants for the HBCUs this year? Like, talking 10k+ applicants. They have to eliminate the majority of applicants in their search and we were simply the unlucky ones. You sound like a great applicant and I hope everything works out for you.
 
Man F**k Meharry, and the other HBCU med programs except Howard. I decided I wouldn’t even waste my time with them. Meharry disappointed me so much, I’ll never look at them the same. Then they send everyone that email.


Listen if any of you have to reapply in the next cycle, don’t consider them. F**k them. Go to these white schools and let them pay you for attending, and let them make sure you graduate. The black school’s just gonna cause more **** than they’re worth.

I’m a graduate of an HBCU and this just made me never wanna step foot on any of their campus’s. Unless it was Howard.
 
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A lot of entitlement going on in here. Remember, no one owes you anything (whether you like it or not). We all apply to med school knowing there are no guarantees. All any of us can do is put our best foot forward and hope for the best.
 
If you’re referring to my post, I said what I said. People aren’t entitled, because they would like an institution that actually is efficient, timely and not all over the place. It’s not attractive. Especially when there are so many “standards” and requirements set forth for students.

I’m not saying people aren’t being entitled but they are entitled to feel how they choose. From what I see, most people expected better, considering their metrics and Meharry dropped the ball. We know this from people within the institution. There are plenty of us with excellent high yield stats who did not get a secondary, for people with lower stats. So keep that in mind while you ride your high horse.

And some of us got into school elsewhere so we’re good with our entitlement.
 
jbn91 said:
If you’re referring to my post, I said what I said. People aren’t entitled, because they would like an institution that actually is efficient, timely and not all over the place. It’s not attractive. Especially when there are so many “standards” and requirements set forth for students.

I’m not saying people aren’t being entitled but they are entitled to feel how they choose. From what I see, most people expected better, considering their metrics and Meharry dropped the ball. We know this from people within the institution. There are plenty of us with excellent high yield stats who did not get a secondary, for people with lower stats. So keep that in mind while you ride your high horse.

And some of us got into school elsewhere so we’re good with our entitlement.
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I, too, said what I said. Not here to argue. I actually didn’t even think your particular post sounded entitled, yours was simply disrespectful and unnecessary but you’re right, feel how you feel. I also have several acceptances elsewhere so congrats to us both! 🙂
 
I didn’t think giving ones opinion, online was argumentative. Either way It’s not disrespectful, and it wasn’t unnecessary, it’s the truth and other people on the thread I’m sure have thought the same. Just because you don’t like the way it was delivered doesn’t make it any less truthful. Now you carry on and be blessed.
 
Let’s stay positive on this thread!! I’m extremely sorry for the people who were rejected and didn’t like how the school handled it. But good luck to the ones who are still considered! Remember, this is still someone’s dream school out there and would be more than grateful to get an acceptance. At the end of the day we will be doctors regardless where we go 🙏🏽❤️
 
Pre-II R yesterday, but I'm okay with it. 🙂

Secondary submitted 9/28.

Best of luck to everyone. <3
 
jbn91 said:
If you’re referring to my post, I said what I said. People aren’t entitled, because they would like an institution that actually is efficient, timely and not all over the place. It’s not attractive. Especially when there are so many “standards” and requirements set forth for students.

I’m not saying people aren’t being entitled but they are entitled to feel how they choose. From what I see, most people expected better, considering their metrics and Meharry dropped the ball. We know this from people within the institution. There are plenty of us with excellent high yield stats who did not get a secondary, for people with lower stats. So keep that in mind while you ride your high horse.

And some of us got into school elsewhere so we’re good with our entitlement.
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So just for clarity, are you mad that they are random or mad because you think your stats should've gotten you in? Because the latter unfortunately is a game we all have to play lol if 10k people aside, most of them have good enough stats....even if only 1% of apocants were good, that's already 100 people and the majority of the class. Dont forget they pull from the MHS class as well which has grown in size every year so spots open to new Applicants are GREATLY limited. There's going to HAVE to be tons of good stat people who don't get in and there's always going to be some minute detail that has to make the difference...if it is the former, then I understand lol....all I want it for them to be responsible and professional and the lack of those two qualities is not attractive at all.
 
I think it’s the clear disorganization and lack of timeliness. They were sending people secondary invites into February. That’s completely ridiculous and I can’t say that I would comfortably recommend others applying. The lack of an updated and easily accessible website in 2021 just makes you wonder who is running the program. Can’t find the curriculum or adequate information about the program unless you know someone or scavenge through sdn. They are the most disorganized of the HBCU med school programs and I don’t see any reasonable excuse for the incompetence in all the areas I addressed or that others have. They need to higher new people and update that website which says 2016 at the bottom of each page!
 
No one is owed a secondary, interview, or acceptance to any medical school. Meharry is holistic, good stats will not automatically grant you a chance at the school and there are a lot of applicants this cycle. Meharry is a prestigious school with a great atmosphere and has been a huge factor in making sure the black community has compassionate and competent doctors. Meharry often gives applicants a shot that wouldn’t necessarily have a good chance to be a doctor due to stats elsewhere. That’s part of the reason why their application cycle takes so long. Keep that in mind.
 
DarkBluMage said:
No one is owed a secondary, interview, or acceptance to any medical school. Meharry is holistic, good stats will not automatically grant you a chance at the school and there are a lot of applicants this cycle. Meharry is a prestigious school with a great atmosphere and has been a huge factor in making sure the black community has compassionate and competent doctors. Meharry often gives applicants a shot that wouldn’t necessarily have a good chance to be a doctor due to stats elsewhere. That’s part of the reason why their application cycle takes so long. Keep that in mind.
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Never said anyone is owed a secondary, I got mine in September so that’s not my issue. Also have an acceptance to another hbcu med school so again not my issue here. I recognize and can sympathize with others who have made valid grievances about the lack of organization and transparency from the program. They need to hire new or more people because their inability to have a updated website, active contact number, and respond to emails is ridiculous when compared to other programs. Like what is going on. People can be disorganized and still do good work and have strong accomplishments. However disorganization at entry and from the admissions department is highly unattractive. This was in no way my first choice program so I’m not really hurt, but I completely understand the frustration at the blatant incompetence of the admissions department compared to other programs. Like 2016 on your program page is still upsetting me. Like what is the reason! I really hope they get it together.
 
I stand corrected the website was finally updated this year. Honestly forgot about this school since I was just wrote my secondary. But that was one of my personal grievances last summer with their website. There still is an error message when you click on the school of medicine tab, but at least we are in the current year.
 
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FutureMD20x25 said:
Never said anyone is owed a secondary, I got mine in September so that’s not my issue. Also have an acceptance to another hbcu med school so again not my issue here. I recognize and can sympathize with others who have made valid grievances about the lack of organization and transparency from the program. They need to hire new or more people because their inability to have a updated website, active contact number, and respond to emails is ridiculous when compared to other programs. Like what is going on. People can be disorganized and still do good work and have strong accomplishments. However disorganization at entry and from the admissions department is highly unattractive. This was in no way my first choice program so I’m not really hurt, but I completely understand the frustration at the blatant incompetence of the admissions department compared to other programs. Like 2016 on your program page is still upsetting me. Like what is the reason! I really hope they get it together.
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Their departments are small and they don’t have the manpower to effectively run admissions while answering phone calls from 9000+ applicants. The majority of the money in the college is spent on making sure students have the tools to be successful. They explicitly state that individual updates will not be given to applicants as well and that they do not accept updates from applicants. That’s transparency right there. They’re stating you won’t hear from them unless admissions is ready to move forward with your application. Yes, Meharry is disorganized in some ways but their applicant process isnt. They’re truly holistic which is why some people that may have acceptances elsewhere didn’t get a secondary or interview here. I get the frustration for timeliness because people have to make decisions and find housing but being holistic and truly looking at applicants takes a lot time. I don’t see the point in being angry with a school due to rejection when you got acceptances elsewhere. That honestly seems like more of a pride issue to me than anything. Meharry is a great school, the students that graduate there will tell you so and their history and work in the community speaks for itself.
 
DarkBluMage said:
Their departments are small and they don’t have the manpower to effectively run admissions while answering phone calls from 9000+ applicants. The majority of the money in the college is spent on making sure students have the tools to be successful. They explicitly state that individual updates will not be given to applicants as well and that they do not accept updates from applicants. That’s transparency right there. They’re stating you won’t hear from them unless admissions is ready to move forward with your application. Yes, Meharry is disorganized in some ways but their applicant process isnt. They’re truly holistic which is why some people that may have acceptances elsewhere didn’t get a secondary or interview here. I get the frustration for timeliness because people have to make decisions and find housing but being holistic and truly looking at applicants takes a lot time. I don’t see the point in being angry with a school due to rejection when you got acceptances elsewhere. That honestly seems like more of a pride issue to me than anything. Meharry is a great school, the students that graduate there will tell you so and their history and work in the community speaks for itself.
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Dude people are allowed to dislike a school. I thought it was pretty ridiculous how late this school was and if I had known I never would’ve sent a primary to them. It’s great that Meharry is holistic but so are a lot of other schools, so that doesn’t really excuse how poorly they handle their admissions process in regards to timeliness. It’s a forum so people can share their opinions without others being defensive about it.

For those reading in the future, if you have good stats don’t apply to the HBCUs unless you’d actually attend. Too many people think of them as safeties which isn’t true and admissions can read through that.
 
anotherpremedstudent said:
Dude people are allowed to dislike a school. I thought it was pretty ridiculous how late this school was and if I had known I never would’ve sent a primary to them. It’s great that Meharry is holistic but so are a lot of other schools, so that doesn’t really excuse how poorly they handle their admissions process in regards to timeliness. It’s a forum so people can share their opinions without others being defensive about it.

For those reading in the future, if you have good stats don’t apply to the HBCUs unless you’d actually attend. Too many people think of them as safeties which isn’t true and admissions can read through that.
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When did I say someone couldn’t dislike a school or couldn’t share their opinion? My comment has nothing to do with either point. It doesn’t make sense to bash a good school on this thread, especially if someone already has an acceptance elsewhere. People can dislike and comment all they want but no one comes on this thread to read about someone being bitter or having a personal vendetta against the school cause Meharry wasn’t hunting them down to be in their school. People come to stay updated about when movement is happening. So if I or someone else wants to take the time to address a poor attitude on this thread why is that an issue if you don’t have a problem with those initial negative comments to begin with?
Meharry isn’t some terrible school like the comments imply so I’m stating that so other applicants in the future reading aren’t possibly influenced and miss out on a good school.
 
Just here for the fireworks. After nothing since I submitted my primary in August, I got an update email about still being under review 😂 do y'all think they realize they never sent me the secondary?? Oh well, I just officially withdrew my application. Good luck y'all!

For what it's worth I think Meharry is a fantastic school. I think that I, and many others from the looks of it, just wish they were a bit more organized with applications. We can't let the stress of this wacky application cycle get us down!
 
anotherpremedstudent said:
Dude people are allowed to dislike a school. I thought it was pretty ridiculous how late this school was and if I had known I never would’ve sent a primary to them. It’s great that Meharry is holistic but so are a lot of other schools, so that doesn’t really excuse how poorly they handle their admissions process in regards to timeliness. It’s a forum so people can share their opinions without others being defensive about it.

For those reading in the future, if you have good stats don’t apply to the HBCUs unless you’d actually attend. Too many people think of them as safeties which isn’t true and admissions can read through that.
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Sure, people are allowed to dislike schools, but their comment was disrespectful. The poster pretty much said don’t give any of these “black schools” your money and **** them, go to the white schools where they give a sh** about you. It is disrespectful to the service that HBCUs have done for our nation and the Black community, especially in producing Black physicians. Having this sort of “opinion”, because their timeline was running late, is odd and what’s worse is the outright expectation to get an interview/secondary over other applicants because they were above their medians. It’s not a good look at all.
 
I honestly think people are viewing things differently. I saw that other post and didn’t take it that way. If you feel it’s okay to be sending incorrect application update emails and etc. that’s fine but ppl have a right to vent why they were irritated with the process. We all seem to agree there was an organization issue and I think that should be called out an improved instead of pretending everything is cherry. It doesn’t take away from the work that they have done but they could do better. I personally can not excuse the disorganization that I observed as an applicant and it was highly unattractive to me and others. It’s not a vendetta or anything against their schools mission it just that there have been repeated issues regarding organization at the admissions department level.
 
anotherpremedstudent said:
Dude people are allowed to dislike a school. I thought it was pretty ridiculous how late this school was and if I had known I never would’ve sent a primary to them. It’s great that Meharry is holistic but so are a lot of other schools, so that doesn’t really excuse how poorly they handle their admissions process in regards to timeliness. It’s a forum so people can share their opinions without others being defensive about it.

For those reading in the future, if you have good stats don’t apply to the HBCUs unless you’d actually attend. Too many people think of them as safeties which isn’t true and admissions can read through that.
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This official application thread is meant to be a source of information for current and upcoming applicants. Furthermore the mods have a policy of sticking to the topic at hand. I'm sure if we tagged one they would say it. Let's keep it on a positive note as future professionals. The forum is not meant to bash and banter a school's perceived faults. You can make a sticky thread for that for whoever would want to.
 
FutureMD20x25 said:
I honestly think people are viewing things differently. I saw that other post and didn’t take it that way. If you feel it’s okay to be sending incorrect application update emails and etc. that’s fine but ppl have a right to vent why they were irritated with the process. We all seem to agree there was an organization issue and I think that should be called out an improved instead of pretending everything is cherry. It doesn’t take away from the work that they have done but they could do better. I personally can not excuse the disorganization that I observed as an applicant and it was highly unattractive to me and others. It’s not a vendetta or anything against their schools mission it just that there have been repeated issues regarding organization at the admissions department level.
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Who did they send an incorrect application update to? With Meharry if they didn’t send a rejection to you that means they’re still considering your application, whether that’s consideration for a secondary, interview or an acceptance. People keep saying they’re not being transparent or they’re making mistakes but Meharry doesn’t do silent rejections and they say they’re not going to give individual updates after accepting primary apps but people keep trying to reach out for an update. That’s not on them. They’re clear about their admissions process. You literally still have a chance with admissions if you haven’t gotten a rejection.
 
DarkBluMage said:
Who did they send an incorrect application update to? With Meharry if they didn’t send a rejection to you that means they’re still considering your application, whether that’s consideration for a secondary, interview or an acceptance. People keep saying they’re not being transparent or they’re making mistakes but Meharry doesn’t do silent rejections and they say they’re not going to give individual updates after accepting primary apps but people keep trying to reach out for an update. That’s not on them. They’re clear about their admissions process. You literally still have a chance with admissions if you haven’t gotten a rejection.
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I received several application is complete emails before I even submitted my secondary application. Someone above posted about a similar thing. If you would like you can go back to the late September and October post when ppl discuss this. Like I said I’m not going to excuse the organizational issues I experienced and that others have documented. It doesn’t mean they don’t do good work and produce amazing physicians. But I think we can again call out issues and hopefully they will improve. My personal comments/post were not to bash the school but to validate the experience and frustrations that people also had this cycle. Like I said earlier I’ve already been accepted and am going to another hbcu this fall, so it was really shocking to have had such a negative experience personally with my application to this school. It’s not unthinkable or unreasonable to ponder why they don’t do rolling rejections like other institutions who do holistic reviews. As someone mentioned their might have been an issue of limited number of new seats due to MHS program. However the attempts to pretend it was a cheery cherry picture perfect communication process is ridiculous. They could definitely improve in that department and that is all. Never did anyone attack the academic portion of the program or state they were entitled to and interview. I’m just saying rejections and acceptances were handed out at similar institutions with more communication and transparency than I saw at Meharry that made me wonder why I applied in the first place.
 
FutureMD20x25 said:
I received several application is complete emails before I even submitted my secondary application. Someone above posted about a similar thing. If you would like you can go back to the late September and October post when ppl discuss this. Like I said I’m not going to excuse the organizational issues I experienced and that others have documented. It doesn’t mean they don’t do good work and produce amazing physicians. But I think we can again call out issues and hopefully they will improve. My personal comments/post were not to bash the school but to validate the experience and frustrations that people also had this cycle. Like I said earlier I’ve already been accepted and am going to another hbcu this fall, so it was really shocking to have had such a negative experience personally with my application to this school. It’s not unthinkable or unreasonable to ponder why they don’t do rolling rejections like other institutions who do holistic reviews. As someone mentioned their might have been an issue of limited number of new seats due to MHS program. However the attempts to pretend it was a cheery cherry picture perfect communication process is ridiculous. They could definitely improve in that department and that is all. Never did anyone attack the academic portion of the program or state they were entitled to and interview. I’m just saying rejections and acceptances were handed out at similar institutions with more communication and transparency than I saw at Meharry that made me wonder why I applied in the first place.
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Application complete emails are for primary apps not secondary apps. They do resend the same emails sometimes which I agree is annoying. However how does complaining on this thread improve that? That’s something to send in an email to admissions if you’re no longer interested in the school or to address as a student at a town hall in the future as an advocate for future applicants. It has nothing to do with being cheery cheery, they literally tell you not to expect any communication from them unless it has to do with them proceeding with your app but people are mad that admissions doesn’t respond to their emails requesting an update on their app. They are transparent on their application process. If you disagree with their process that’s a personal issue, but they are clear from the beginning that they’re not going to be responding to emails from applicants about updates. If you think a couple of those comments weren’t attacking then I don’t know what to tell you but they clearly were with saying to not waste your time applying to an HBCU and upset they didn’t get anything despite their stats. It is what it is at this point.
 
DarkBluMage said:
Application complete emails are for primary apps not secondary apps. They do resend the same emails sometimes which I agree is annoying. However how does complaining on this thread improve that? That’s something to send in an email to admissions if you’re no longer interested in the school or to address as a student at a town hall in the future as an advocate for future applicants. It has nothing to do with being cheery cheery, they literally tell you not to expect any communication from them unless it has to do with them proceeding with your app but people are mad that admissions doesn’t respond to their emails requesting an update on their app. They are transparent on their application process. If you disagree with their process that’s a personal issue, but they are clear from the beginning that they’re not going to be responding to emails from applicants about updates. If you think a couple of those comments weren’t attacking then I don’t know what to tell you but they clearly were with saying to not waste your time applying to an HBCU and upset they didn’t get anything despite their stats. It is what it is at this point.
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Bruh, I literally lol’d because they don’t respond to emails remember. Also that’s not the email I’m talking about but you seem really defensive about people pointing out obvious organization issues. It’s a forum and people can provide updates on their experience regarding stats and application on these threads, so I’m not sure why saying the school hasn’t communicated well is such a problem for you. Obviously that user shouldn’t have cursed but it honestly didn’t disturb me that much. People will make their own school list according to their preferences. Saying not to apply to schools that you wouldn’t go to as safeties is good advice in my opinion. I wish you the best of luck on your wait with Meharry. Hopefully you are able to matriculate there in the fall!
 
FutureMD20x25 said:
Never said anyone is owed a secondary, I got mine in September so that’s not my issue. Also have an acceptance to another hbcu med school so again not my issue here. I recognize and can sympathize with others who have made valid grievances about the lack of organization and transparency from the program. They need to hire new or more people because their inability to have a updated website, active contact number, and respond to emails is ridiculous when compared to other programs. Like what is going on. People can be disorganized and still do good work and have strong accomplishments. However disorganization at entry and from the admissions department is highly unattractive. This was in no way my first choice program so I’m not really hurt, but I completely understand the frustration at the blatant incompetence of the admissions department compared to other programs. Like 2016 on your program page is still upsetting me. Like what is the reason! I really hope they get it together.
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I was also frustrated with what seemed like disorganization from the school, but I think everyone also needs to consider the circumstances. I interviewed here a couple of weeks ago and the individual that I interviewed with let me know that Meharry had taken over all COVID-19 testing for the city of Nashville. Along with this, their President is on one of President Biden's task forces to address vaccine distribution. Their doctors and admissions persons, including the individual I interviewed with, have been spending most of their time in the community trying to address the concerns BIPOC individuals have over the vaccine. The person I interviewed with had been on the local news several times in the past few weeks encouraging people of color to get the vaccine. From what I got in that interview, yes the school is being slow and may be disorganized, but quite frankly it is because they are living up to their mission. I think the reason for the disorganization that we are seeing is also the same reason many of us decided to apply to this school in the first place. Not trying to be argumentative or anything like that, just wanted to give some information and say that we should maybe give the school some slack because they are doing really amazing things right now in light of this pandemic.
 
DarkBluMage said:
Who did they send an incorrect application update to? With Meharry if they didn’t send a rejection to you that means they’re still considering your application, whether that’s consideration for a secondary, interview or an acceptance. People keep saying they’re not being transparent or they’re making mistakes but Meharry doesn’t do silent rejections and they say they’re not going to give individual updates after accepting primary apps but people keep trying to reach out for an update. That’s not on them. They’re clear about their admissions process. You literally still have a chance with admissions if you haven’t gotten a rejection.
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To be fair they did send incorrect emails. I got the one about my application still being under review and panicked because I thought that they’d either rescinded my acceptance or sent me an acceptance by mistake.

It’s been a disappointing process overall and I think it’s fair to warn current/future applicants of the reality of what to expect. I came in with Meharry as my top choice because of its mission but I feel like there’s been a concerning lack of communication and clarity. My interview felt super casual and disorganized and no one ever told me when to expect a decision or in what format. Meharry is not the only small program running a city’s COVID protocols that I applied to but it is the only one that seems to have so little respect for its applicants. Coupled with the concerning lack of transparency around match rates, I’m definitely weighing my other options a bit more heavily after all of this, which is sad considering how excited I was about Meharry.
 
pagingdoctorbae said:
Pre-II R too. But in this moment I just want to remind everyone to keep going no matter what and remain strong. God has a plan for all of us, and if we trust his timing we will all be Doctors one day!!
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❤️
 
docofthefuture89 said:
Does anyone know when Meharry gives out acceptances? I interviewed in December and I haven't heard anything.
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I’m in the same boat. I haven’t heard anything and they haven’t sent anything besides that “your application is still under review” email.
 
rumba73 said:
Pre-II rejection; Completed 9/25; I felt this. God, I can't how **** this made me feel too. I feel defeated.
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I didnt wait to hear from meharry but was worried it might have been the same news for me. So I started St. George's in January and loving it! I'm almost halfway done my semester. You should consider looking into the school! It only has a 6% attrition rate and I can tell you they do everything in their power to help you. They also take students w similar stats to meharry and lower tier MD schools. I'm glad I went this route and didn't wait two more years to apply again and then start a year later!
 
LivGirl10 said:
I didnt wait to hear from meharry but was worried it might have been the same news for me. So I started St. George's in January and loving it! I'm almost halfway done my semester. You should consider looking into the school! It only has a 6% attrition rate and I can tell you they do everything in their power to help you. They also take students w similar stats to meharry and lower tier MD schools. I'm glad I went this route and didn't wait two more years to apply again and then start a year later!
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Are you worried at all about matching into US schools for residency with Step 1 now being pass/fail?
 
somalidoctor said:
Are you worried at all about matching into US schools for residency with Step 1 now being pass/fail?
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Honestly, not at all! If you get good grades at SGU (classes are pass fail though) and do well on your step 2 and clinicals, you're in just as good shape as someone in the US. Everyone I know who worked hard at SGU made it for match day. Now at other less-good carribean schools, I'd say the odds are stacked against you. But at SGU, they do everything in their power to help you succeed. They offer free tutoring, weekly review sessions led by upper termers who know the ropes, special programs to keep you caught up if they feel you need it -- and much more. they really want to see all of their students thrive and their match rates are solid.
 
TheSinkingTitanic2021 said:
I still haven’t received a secondary yet! Does that mean a R? My stats are higher than an average applicant that gets accepted to this school...maybe it is me not being “black” ...who knows! My stats are cgpa: 3.50, science gpa: 3.54 and MCAT: 505 (121 in Cars)! I am wondering if no secondary at this point means a straight R?
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I doubt if you got rejected it has anything to do with your race, or not being a certain race, lol. It probably was just they thought a certain aspect of your application wasn't competitive enough. Or they got an excessive number of qualified applicants. I got a secondary and was below their minimum MCAT score, lol. So it's not just a numbers game.
 
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