2020-2021 NYU

[blessed24:)]

Hi! Does the waitlist get ranked/do we learn our rank?

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[blessed24:)]

Most waitlists don't really have a rank they try to balance the class so if a urm declined their spot they will pull a urm from the waitlist. I'm guessing you are ranked with the demographic you fit

makes sense, thanks!

 

[jm95]

Do we know by any chance how many people are on the WL this year? I don't know what to make of "the waitlist is also significantly smaller than it has been in prior year"

 

[joshuamarcus]

Do we know by any chance how many people are on the WL this year? I don't know what to make of "the waitlist is also significantly smaller than it has been in prior year"

They said that last yeAr too

 

[lacrossegirl420]

does anyone know the % accepted from WL last year? (sorry if this was answered already)

 

[KnightDoc]

does anyone know the % accepted from WL last year? (sorry if this was answered already)

I think around 1/3 of the class comes from the WL, because they no longer over accept and their yield is around 65%, so around 65 come from the initial 100 As, and around 35 come from the WL. What I don't know is whether the WL yield is also 65%, which would imply around 50 As off the WL to yield the 35, or whether it is higher, which would mean a few less offers.

I also don't know how many people they have on the WL, which is really the only thing that's relevant to assessing what anyone's odds are of being called off the WL. But, it looks like they pull around 50 people off the WL each year, because they do not over accept since they went to the tuition free model in order to avoid the possibility of being over enrolled. Good luck!!!!!

 

[BRTC200]

does anyone know the % accepted from WL last year? (sorry if this was answered already)

MSAR says 50 acceptance offers are granted to a pool of approximately 250 waitlist positions.

 

[Mcath8er]

Do we know when waitlist movement might start?

 

[proudofmykids]

I think around 1/3 of the class comes from the WL, because they no longer over accept and their yield is around 65%, so around 65 come from the initial 100 As, and around 35 come from the WL. What I don't know is whether the WL yield is also 65%, which would imply around 50 As off the WL to yield the 35, or whether it is higher, which would mean a few less offers.

I also don't know how many people they have on the WL, which is really the only thing that's relevant to assessing what anyone's odds are of being called off the WL. But, it looks like they pull around 50 people off the WL each year, because they do not over accept since they went to the tuition free model in order to avoid the possibility of being over enrolled. Good luck!!!!!

Does MSAR indicate the number of Acceptances? And, is MSTP mixed together with regular MD data? I thought I remember last year took a lower number of As than you indicated to fill the class.

Jogging my memory, I think If you factor out MSTP (35-40As to yield ~12 attendees), you have 115-125 total As for regular MD with about 90 regular MD matriculating. This gives ~75%+ yield for regular MD.

 

[KnightDoc]

Does MSAR indicate the number of Acceptances? And, is MSTP mixed together with regular MD data? I thought I remember last year took a lower number of As than you indicated to fill the class.

Jogging my memory, I think If you factor out MSTP (35-40As to yield ~12 attendees), you have 115-125 total As for regular MD with about 90 regular MD matriculating. This gives ~75%+ yield for regular MD.

No. MSTP is separate. The last reported data on MSAR has NYU matriculating 103 MDs and 11 MD/PhDs. I am pretty sure I am correct, and they issue 150 MD As to seat a class of 100.

What was pretty widely reported, both last year as well as this year, is that they initially give out around 100 As (they don't overbook the class) and then pull around 50 off the WL. This is consistent with a 2/3 yield -- 100 initial As yields 67 matriculants, and around 50 people off the WL yields around 33 matriculants. Remember, free tuition for all is quite a lure, but, ultimately, tippy top candidates receive merit and/or need based money from other top schools, so money doesn't drive the decision for everyone.

The MSTP yield will obviously be much lower, and is properly reported separately, because all MD/PhD programs are tuition free, so that's not a selling point unique to NYU!

 

[proudofmykids]

No. MSTP is separate. The last reported data on MSAR has NYU matriculating 103 MDs and 11 MD/PhDs. I am pretty sure I am correct, and they issue 150 MD As to seat a class of 100.

What was pretty widely reported, both last year as well as this year, is that they initially give out around 100 As (they don't overbook the class) and then pull around 50 off the WL. This is consistent with a 2/3 yield -- 100 initial As yields 67 matriculants, and around 50 people off the WL yields around 33 matriculants. Remember, free tuition for all is quite a lure, but, ultimately, tippy top candidates receive merit and/or need based money from other top schools, so money doesn't drive the decision for everyone.

The MSTP yield will obviously be much lower, and is properly reported separately, because all MD/PhD programs are tuition free, so that's not a selling point unique to NYU!

Ok, so MSTP is reported separately which makes it easier to correlate the numbers.

The only difference is annecdotally for class of 2024, they really only issued about 120-125 A's for regular MD! Also 102 matriculated. We know MSAR has had irregularities with it's data at many schools. This is why I've claimed before a Harvard-like Yield of 80%. I understand it is different than what Dean Rivera shares during interviews and is why I was quite surprised by the resulting Yield last year. Remember, last year was the first full-app-cycle admissions with free tuition. The class before heard the announcement of free tuition in September 2018 mid-cycle, which likely made for many 'late' application additions onto many applicant's school list. Maybe msar does some rolling average in reporting data.

I agree about NYU free-tuition, highly beneficial to those who don't qualify for need-based aid and would be taking loans out to pay for Med School. Ultra wealthy and high need-based aid candidates likely don't need to select NYU based on free tuition.

 

[proudofmykids]

The 2021 residency match list is out. This class entered well before the free tuition program announcement and have great results.

Observations:
— a huge New York geographic bias (I wouldn’t be surprised if over 75%).
— However, this is not to say, it isn’t geographically diverse across the country. — Almost half stayed at a NYU program of which many are T10 ranked residencies. (I believe close to 20% of all students enter the three year med school program which locks them into a NYU residency )
— looks like at least half the matches are to T10 specialty-ranked programs

I can’t post the list yet since it isn’t anonymous and I’m not at a computer to pivot the table.

reference list doximity compiled residency program rankings by specialty:

Doximity Residency Navigator 2018 - 2019 - Tea with MD

The Doximity Residency Navigator 2018-2019 have been released! I have compiled the top 10 in each specialty by reputation and research for your interest.

www.teawithmd.com

 

[jm95]

Do we know how they want us to send our letter of intent/interest? through the portal?

 

[mdpls!]

Do we know how they want us to send our letter of intent/interest? through the portal?

If I remember from my interview correctly, they don't really care about letters of interest or intent, and they told us not to bother sending them. Does someone else want to confirm tho?

 

[BRTC200]

Hi all! I have three quick questions that I'm hoping to have answered.

1). Are WL applicants invited to attend second look? When is second look scheduled for?
2). Anyone have any guesses why there are already 203 members in the accepted FB group? Do you think NYU initially accepted more than ~110 this cycle, and therefore there will be less WL movement?
3) Do LOIntent have an impact? I saw this topic was discussed above but it seems that no one really has a clear answer.

Thanks!

Regarding #2, 203 members total

-6 admins
-looks like about 20-25 current students
-approximately 30-40 MSTP admits

so I think there's reasonably anywhere from 132-147 accepted MD students in that group. Then factor in the uncertainty of yield this year due to COVID (but I would wager yield goes down, if anything) and there should be WL movement; MSAR says 50 acceptance offers are typically granted to WL candidates but this was also pre-pandemic data. Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm missing some student population in this calculation?

 

[proudofmykids]

Regarding #2, 203 members total

-6 admins
-looks like about 20-25 current students
-approximately 30-40 MSTP admits

so I think there's reasonably anywhere from 132-147 accepted MD students in that group. Then factor in the uncertainty of yield this year due to COVID (but I would wager yield goes down, if anything) and there should be WL movement; MSAR says 50 acceptance offers are typically granted to WL candidates but this was also pre-pandemic data. Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm missing some student population in this calculation?

Please explain, why do you think Covid will cause yield to drop?

 

[Mcath8er]

Regarding #2, 203 members total

-6 admins
-looks like about 20-25 current students
-approximately 30-40 MSTP admits

so I think there's reasonably anywhere from 132-147 accepted MD students in that group. Then factor in the uncertainty of yield this year due to COVID (but I would wager yield goes down, if anything) and there should be WL movement; MSAR says 50 acceptance offers are typically granted to WL candidates but this was also pre-pandemic data. Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm missing some student population in this calculation?

I feel like maybe there will be more WL movement than we expect. Since so many folks have multiple acceptances and the type of students that NYU admits...maybe also got into several of their top choices and may lead to more movement. But I can also see how they may have accepted a few more As to compensate for covid too and reduce WL movement. Too hard to predict I feel.

 

[pilotdiver]

I just went back and read the WL email and it is interesting to note: "We expect to send out additional acceptance offers no later than May 1st, and possibly much earlier if spots open up sooner." Which is kind of interesting given that most school's start WL movement after May 1st. I wonder what this looks like timeline-wise.

 

[KnightDoc]

I just went back and read the WL email and it is interesting to note: "We expect to send out additional acceptance offers no later than May 1st, and possibly much earlier if spots open up sooner." Which is kind of interesting given that most school's start WL movement after May 1st. I wonder what this looks like timeline-wise.

I honestly think you are reading a little too much into that. It pays to keep in mind that most schools over admit, whereas NYU doesn't. 5/1 is not a hard and fast rule regarding WL movement. It's just that, at most schools, taking into account the fact that they over admit, they don't have a lot of spots, if any, before 4/30, when everyone has to reduce to one A. This is even though people drop As throughout the cycle, especially in April when things start to get real, and people are encouraged to drop to 3 As by 4/15.

NYU, on the other hand, does not over admit. Therefore, someone dropping an A on 3/24 immediately creates a spot that needs to be filled. NYU could wait until 5/1 to make a call, or they could make one immediately, or at any time in between. There is nothing more to it than that. School X might need 100 people to drop their As before a call from the WL needs to be made. NYU has the spot available immediately.

All they are telling you is that calls could come at any time, but no later than 5/1. There is no timeline because they don't know who is going to drop, or when.

 

[BRTC200]

Please explain, why do you think Covid will cause yield to drop?

Easier process to interview for applicants could mean people take up interviews (and thus possibly acceptances) to schools they may not have made the effort to fly out to. NYU could be low on these peoples’ lists so may be unlikely to actually attend if given an A. Since NYU doesn’t play the games gauging interest like schools such as Mayo, there’s almost no process to compensate for that. Then there’s the recruitment aspect of in-person interviews and second looks that is lost in a virtual environment, leaving NYU and its relatively new prestige and free tuition to compete against old guard, established names for the same top students. Just a theory for me at this point, but I believe that the student group does have more than 110 accepted MD applicants which seems to buck the trend of not over accepting.

 

[KnightDoc]

This is helpful, but what's your source for NYU not over admitting? FB group membership would suggest that they do send more admits than their class size

People reporting back from II information sessions every year since the year it was announced that they went tuition-free. There are several relevant posts on the NYU SDN threads, both this cycle and last.

FB membership never suggests anything because the FB groups, for just about every school, include current students as well as those admitted. Trust me on this -- NYU has a relatively small class and a very high yield. They have zero incentive to try to guesstimate their actual yield and find themselves stuck with even one student they haven't budgeted for, when it is so easy to just fill every seat without over accepting, and then replace people one-for-one as people drop off.

The numbers fit perfectly. It has been widely reported that their yield is around 65%, and they take around 50 people off the WL. This corresponds to precisely to 100 initial As yielding 65 matriculants, and 50 WL As yielding the remaining 35 matriculants, give or take a few people either way, since it would make sense that the WL yield is slightly higher than the initial A one.

It's exactly what they did the last two cycles, it's what Dean Rivera says they are going to do every year, and it's what they are going to do this year. That's my source -- Dean Rivera via whoever attended the relevant sessions and posted on SDN.

 

[KnightDoc]

Easier process to interview for applicants could mean people take up interviews (and thus possibly acceptances) to schools they may not have made the effort to fly out to. NYU could be low on these peoples’ lists so may be unlikely to actually attend if given an A. Since NYU doesn’t play the games gauging interest like schools such as Mayo, there’s almost no process to compensate for that. Then there’s the recruitment aspect of in-person interviews and second looks that is lost in a virtual environment, leaving NYU and its relatively new prestige and free tuition to compete against old guard, established names for the same top students. Just a theory for me at this point, but I believe that the student group does have more than 110 accepted MD applicants which seems to buck the trend of not over accepting.

Below is just a sampling of posts on the topic from THIS thread earlier in the cycle. There were similar posts last year as well! As soon as you come across a single person in the group that is a current student, you have you answer as to why there are more than 110 people in it! Don't they all have current students in them to address questions and concerns??

Just thought I’d add that I already interviewed here for this cycle and Dean Rivera said they initially accept ~100 people before January/February, then an additional ~50 from the waitlist later on

On my interview notes I wrote down they accept 110, then later accept 156 (not too sure I just wrote down 110---->156 later). WL of 250 and about 50 people get in from WL. I think this was based on last years numbers.

Yeah, I think so, too :/

Yeah, I wrote down similar notes like I have the exact same numbers written down and, if my memory serves me correctly, Dean Rivera meant that by mid-January (but now late-January because they are running behind), they would have accepted 100-110 applicants and then they would waitlist 200 and reject everyone else at that time. And then ultimately from the waitlist they would accept another ~50 applicants (usually in May) for a grand total accepted students number of ~156

 

[KnightDoc]

Very thorough - thanks! Extra knowledge won't bump the chances of being one of those 50/200-250 on the WL but fishing for info seems to help the time pass more quickly..

I totally get it -- I've been chomping at the bit for the past two years, and, believe it or not, would LOVE to be in your position, given how terrible the odds are of actually making it as far as you have. I think it's helpful to look at it like this -- you have made it past all but the final cut, a full 1/3 of the class comes of the WL (maybe even a little more, if the initial A yield is below 65% with the WL yield being a bit above), and you have a not unreasonable 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 chance of being one of those people. That's not too shabby, given what the odds were when you started last June. Good luck!!! 🙂

 

[BRTC200]

Below is just a sampling of posts on the topic from THIS thread earlier in the cycle. There were similar posts last year as well! As soon as you come across a single person in the group that is a current student, you have you answer as to why there are more than 110 people in it! Don't they all have current students in them to address questions and concerns??

Really don't know what you think you're presenting in contrast to my information. I'm actually in this group and counted up the admins and people who have "NYUGSOM/NYUSOM" listed on their Facebook profile. This is where I get my numbers of 203 total members, 6 admins, and 24 current students (as indicated by their profile). The MSTP number is based on prior MSTP T32 grants which indicate a ratio of approximately 4-5 acceptance offers for every 1 matriculant.

Assuming the group membership is accurate, you'd need either 30-40 additional current students who simply don't have NYU indicated on their profile, or anywhere from 60-70 total MSTP admits, or a combination of both to achieve only ~100 MD admits at this point. You do the math.

 

[KnightDoc]

Really don't know what you think you're presenting in contrast to my information. I'm actually in this group and counted up the admins and people who have "NYUGSOM/NYUSOM" listed on their Facebook profile. This is where I get my numbers of 203 total members, 6 admins, and 24 current students (as indicated by their profile). The MSTP number is based on prior MSTP T32 grants which indicate a ratio of approximately 4-5 acceptance offers for every 1 matriculant.

Assuming the group membership is accurate, you'd need either 30-40 additional current students who simply don't have NYU indicated on their profile, or anywhere from 60-70 total MSTP admits, or a combination of both to achieve only ~100 MD admits at this point. You do the math.

Fair enough -- I'm not in the group, so I have no idea what's going on in there. I was just pointing out that the 100-110 came directly from the Dean, and there would be no good reason to deviate from it from the school's perspective. If anyone actually thinks there are more than 110 As floating around now, that would be a TERRIBLE omen regarding WL movement this cycle.

Despite all the speculation regarding virtual interviews leading to more people holding more multiple As, the only numbers published so far (as of the beginning of February) actually showed fewer people holding fewer As as compared to the same time last year. Even though this is likely explained by things being delayed at many schools due to COVID, it is certainly not evidence that yields are going to be down across the board (particularly not at tuition free T5s), so more initial As at a school like NYU (which I seriously, highly doubt), would, if true, almost have to lead to less WL movement.

I have no reason to doubt your analysis, and have no explanation as to why the FB numbers are what they are (if this is, in fact, what they are), but I also see no reason to call into question numbers multiple people reported Dean Rivera disclosed.

 

[BRTC200]

Fair enough -- I'm not in the group, so I have no idea what's going on in there. I was just pointing out that the 100-110 came directly from the Dean, and there would be no good reason to deviate from it from the school's perspective. If anyone actually thinks there are more than 110 As floating around now, that would be a TERRIBLE omen regarding WL movement this cycle.

Despite all the speculation regarding virtual interviews leading to more people holding more multiple As, the only numbers published so far (as of the beginning of February) actually showed fewer people holding fewer As as compared to the same time last year. Even though this is likely explained by things being delayed at many schools due to COVID, it is certainly not evidence that yields are going to be down across the board (particularly not at tuition free T5s), so more initial As at a school like NYU (which I seriously, highly doubt), would, if true, almost have to lead to less WL movement.

I have no reason to doubt your analysis, and have no explanation as to why the FB numbers are what they are (if this is, in fact, what they are), but I also see no reason to call into question numbers multiple people reported Dean Rivera disclosed.

Hard to say. I find it hard to believe that there'd be 30-40 additional current students in the group that simply don't have NYUGSOM on their Facebook profile, but at the same time I do recognize the statements that Dean Rivera made and have no reason to doubt it either. I'm just wondering if it's possible some movement has already been going since the # of members in the group has been creeping upward and the school now has an idea of yield with PTE indications...but again, no idea of who is comprising those new members joining the group so can't say anything for certain.

I'll add that on the MSTP side it seems the general sentiment is as I described, that more people are holding more As. See one example below:

We are now up to 3.8 ACs/accepted student while last year, we were at 2.9 at this point. One thing is that 3 AC students are having problems making or communicating decisions, hoarding 24 ACs (more than 6 ACs each)....

I have said this before. AMCAS should have a hard rule that no student could hold more than 5 ACs at any point after March 1. If they have 5 ACs, no program should be able to extend AC #6; such a rule would force people to stay below the max cap as they might make room for AC from dream school.

 

[KnightDoc]

You a non-trad?

Good luck next year mate. If that other guy is right and there are 130-140 people with admits this year, waitlist prospects are essentially nonexistent. They may even be over-subscribed with that # of initial As, given high yield. Where are you seeing this data about 'fewer people holding fewer As'?

Not a non-trad -- just a person who was forced into an unplanned gap year, next year, due to everything that happened this time last year. The numbers are from a document published by AAMC that was posted by someone else and reposted by me in the quote below.

View attachment 331972 View attachment 331967

 

[BRTC200]

Not that anyone should waste an evening doing so, but LinkedIn is probably better than Facebook for that info. fewer & fewer are using fb for anything these days

I guess I really got bored. Anyway: bad news for me, potentially good news for everybody else. Here we go, a (slightly) more scientific analysis of the Facebook group makeup. I evaluated every member based first on their Facebook profile updates and/or any telling pictures, and then a cursory Google search to pull up any relevant pages-- current lab membership, Linkedin pages, etc. This is what I came up with:

128 likely applicants (this does not distinguish between MD and MD-PhD)
48 current students
20 unknown/undeterminable individuals
6 administrators

and somehow I'm still missing 2 members out of the 204 total membership, but I really want to go to sleep now. In conclusion, I was off by nearly a factor of 2 in estimating the number of current students in the group. Looking at the worst case scenario now, even if you count all the unidentifiable individuals as applicants, that only makes for 148 applicants total of which around 40 should be MD/PhD, making for 108 MD acceptances, which would equate to about 70 matriculants assuming a 65% yield, which would equal at least 40 positions of waitlist movement, but of course WL movement is not 100% yield either. Seems like all is still well with the world, Dean Rivera's word holds true, and I apologize for any undue stress my coarse estimates may have caused. Best of luck to everybody on the WL!

 

[chezchet]

all I can say is whatever lab you work for in medical school is gonna love this diligence!

I guess I really got bored. Anyway: bad news for me, potentially good news for everybody else. Here we go, a (slightly) more scientific analysis of the Facebook group makeup. I evaluated every member based first on their Facebook profile updates and/or any telling pictures, and then a cursory Google search to pull up any relevant pages-- current lab membership, Linkedin pages, etc. This is what I came up with:

128 likely applicants (this does not distinguish between MD and MD-PhD)
48 current students
20 unknown/undeterminable individuals
6 administrators

and somehow I'm still missing 2 members out of the 204 total membership, but I really want to go to sleep now. In conclusion, I was off by nearly a factor of 2 in estimating the number of current students in the group. Looking at the worst case scenario now, even if you count all the unidentifiable individuals as applicants, that only makes for 148 applicants total of which around 40 should be MD/PhD, making for 108 MD acceptances, which would equate to about 70 matriculants assuming a 65% yield, which would equal at least 40 positions of waitlist movement, but of course WL movement is not 100% yield either. Seems like all is still well with the world, Dean Rivera's word holds true, and I apologize for any undue stress my coarse estimates may have caused. Best of luck to everybody on the WL!

 

[dogtorcat]

Y’all need to get hobbies.

 

[proudofmykids]

Easier process to interview for applicants could mean people take up interviews (and thus possibly acceptances) to schools they may not have made the effort to fly out to. NYU could be low on these peoples’ lists so may be unlikely to actually attend if given an A. Since NYU doesn’t play the games gauging interest like schools such as Mayo, there’s almost no process to compensate for that. Then there’s the recruitment aspect of in-person interviews and second looks that is lost in a virtual environment, leaving NYU and its relatively new prestige and free tuition to compete against old guard, established names for the same top students. Just a theory for me at this point, but I believe that the student group does have more than 110 accepted MD applicants which seems to buck the trend of not over accepting.

I appreciate your explanation! By this logic (which I now agree with) this year more importantly will have much more Wait List activity which comes from lower yield and the likely fact that most schools didn’t proactively offer more As to compensate up front.

 

[proudofmykids]

I guess I really got bored. Anyway: bad news for me, potentially good news for everybody else. Here we go, a (slightly) more scientific analysis of the Facebook group makeup. I evaluated every member based first on their Facebook profile updates and/or any telling pictures, and then a cursory Google search to pull up any relevant pages-- current lab membership, Linkedin pages, etc. This is what I came up with:

128 likely applicants (this does not distinguish between MD and MD-PhD)
48 current students
20 unknown/undeterminable individuals
6 administrators

and somehow I'm still missing 2 members out of the 204 total membership, but I really want to go to sleep now. In conclusion, I was off by nearly a factor of 2 in estimating the number of current students in the group. Looking at the worst case scenario now, even if you count all the unidentifiable individuals as applicants, that only makes for 148 applicants total of which around 40 should be MD/PhD, making for 108 MD acceptances, which would equate to about 70 matriculants assuming a 65% yield, which would equal at least 40 positions of waitlist movement, but of course WL movement is not 100% yield either. Seems like all is still well with the world, Dean Rivera's word holds true, and I apologize for any undue stress my coarse estimates may have caused. Best of luck to everybody on the WL!

Last year yield from those original A’s was about 80%, and 80-90% yield from the WL people offered A’s.

 

[joshuamarcus]

Usnews really doesnt want me to get off the wl here

 

[KnightDoc]

Hmmmmm. Maybe using free tuition to lure the best of the best away from top schools actually works, despite what everyone was predicting, and that actually, and very quickly, does affect perceptions, which then become reality. How long before other schools react, or will NYU be #1 in a year or two????

All I heard two years ago was how their match list sucked compared to "real" T10s, and they'll never really be able to compete with them. Two short years later, although "nobody" cares about rankings, they are now higher ranked than all but one.

I'm just hoping maybe now I'll have a shot to get into Penn next year! 🙂

 

[BRTC200]

I'm just hoping maybe now I'll have a shot to get into Penn next year! 🙂

Psh why would you want to go to a barely T10 school /s

That being said, Harvard is likely way out of the reach so #1 is unlikely to happen without a significant overhaul of ranking metrics, which in itself may or may not benefit NYU. Here is a write up which attempted to rebuild USNWR's weighting of various metrics and found that Harvard almost "games" the system with how faculty and funding are considered with their affiliate hospitals, resulting in metrics that are essentially inflated relative to what HMS medical students actually have access to. This puts Harvard *significantly* ahead of any #2 school.

 

[proudofmykids]

Hmmmmm. Maybe using free tuition to lure the best of the best away from top schools actually works, despite what everyone was predicting, and that actually, and very quickly, does affect perceptions, which then become reality. How long before other schools react, or will NYU be #1 in a year or two????

All I heard two years ago was how their match list sucked compared to "real" T10s, and they'll never really be able to compete with them. Two short years later, although "nobody" cares about rankings, they are now higher ranked than all but one.

I'm just hoping maybe now I'll have a shot to get into Penn next year! 🙂

If you look at their 2021 match list, it is interesting that improvements to rival other T10’s has occurred, but not near the level of T5s. This is for a the class of 2021 who began well before free tuition.

I wonder how much the new ranking will shift the demographics of their new class. In recent years, it was thought that the free tuition mostly worked recruiting those that don’t qualify nor receive financial aid, or those that truly didn’t need the aid. With the new ranking will NYU be more successful matriculating them?

 

[KnightDoc]

If you look at their 2021 match list, it is interesting that improvements to rival other T10’s has occurred, but not near the level of T5s. This is for a the class of 2021 who began well before free tuition.

I wonder how much the new ranking will shift the demographics of their new class. In recent years, it was thought that the free tuition mostly worked recruiting those that don’t qualify nor receive financial aid, or those that truly didn’t need the aid. With the new ranking will NYU be more successful matriculating them?

My guess is not at all. How much more successful can NYU be at matriculating them? It's already matriculating 65%, and even Harvard, which is universally considered to be #1, only yields in the low 70s. The ranking is actually a lagging indicator, reflecting what has already happened since 2019. It's not going to drive behavior going forward.

Everyone has known the deal with NYU since 2019. Its ability to attract the people you are talking about, in addition to other metrics involving research, is how it shot up to #2 from #9 in a few short years. There is no place else for it to go.

NYU will still lose its share of people who would rather be in Stanford, Philly or Cambridge, and will still grab pretty much everyone it accepts who does not receiving funding elsewhere. The new rankings do not suddenly mean Stanford or Penn suck, and people who hate NYC (believe me, there are plenty!) will not suddenly pick NYU over Harvard or Stanford or Penn or Hopkins or etc. just because USNWR says NYU is #2 this year.

The proof of this is its 20% MSTP yield. That is a true measure of NYU's perceived desirability among tippy top candidates when money is removed from the equation. Being #2 instead of #4 or #9 is not going to change that.

 

[BRTC200]

My guess is not at all. How much more successful can NYU be at matriculating them? It's already matriculating 65%, and even Harvard, which is universally considered to be #1, only yields in the low 70s. The ranking is actually a lagging indicator, reflecting what has already happened since 2019. It's not going to drive behavior going forward.

Everyone has known the deal with NYU since 2019. Its ability to attract the people you are talking about, in addition to other metrics involving research, is how it shot up to #2 from #9 in a few short years. There is no place else for it to go.

NYU will still lose its share of people who would rather be in Stanford, Philly or Cambridge, and will still grab pretty much everyone it accepts who does not receiving funding elsewhere. The new rankings do not suddenly mean Stanford or Penn suck, and people who hate NYC (believe me, there are plenty!) will not suddenly pick NYU over Harvard or Stanford or Penn or Hopkins or etc. just because USNWR says NYU is #2 this year.

The proof of this is its 20% MSTP yield. That is a true measure of NYU's perceived desirability among tippy top candidates when money is removed from the equation. Being #2 instead of #4 or #9 is not going to change that.

I think there can be change- not major, but not insignificant, in NYU’s future given these recent rankings. Assuming continuation of this status, NYU could be viewed more positively as a “true” T10 as that seems to be a point of contention for now (for fair reason, I should say). NYU is still a school of new prestige, competing against institutions whose history span generations. Though it has demonstrated *an* ability to directly attract students who chose between them and legacy names, this does not mean their perception has nowhere else to go. USNWR may be a lagging indicator for actual progress, but I believe NYU’s consistent occupation in the T10 still serves as an early indicator for general perception of prestige- of note, PD rankings have climbed up this year as well, and their match lists are getting higher as well.

The end goal is obviously to try toward an institution which is functionally similar to the Harvard/Stanford/UCSF/etc.: matriculate top applicants to a top-ranked school as perceived by the general public and by PDs, who go on to top-ranked residencies. NYU has attracted at least a subset of top applicants away from established names in medicine; by following up with a proportional increase in PD ranking and match list quality, NYU has the potential to be viewed generally in the same way as any of the other schools and therefore attract an even greater proportion of the top applicants.

Yield may not change much, but the quality of students within that yield can still get even better.

 

[KnightDoc]

I think there can be change- not major, but not insignificant, in NYU’s future given these recent rankings.

The end goal is obviously to try toward an institution which is functionally similar to the Harvard/Stanford/UCSF/etc.: matriculate top applicants to a top-ranked school as perceived by the general public and by PDs, who go on to top-ranked residencies. NYU has attracted at least a subset of top applicants away from established names in medicine; by following up with a proportional increase in PD ranking and match list quality, NYU has the potential to be viewed generally in the same way as any of the other schools and therefore attract an even greater proportion of the top applicants.

Yield may not change much, but the quality of students within that yield can still get even better.

Really? As measured by what??? Median MCAT = 522 (99%-ile) GPA = 3.95. How much better can it get?

Free tuition already drove the change. Nobody waited for validation via USNWR ranking. The ranking is a lagging indicator, and the change already occurred. Yield is approaching its realistic maximum, given there are other great schools, in other great locations, that will always be able to effectively compete for the same tippy top students.

Do you really think the people matriculating at NYU today aren't already at least as good as, if not better than, the classes at Harvard/Stanford/UCSF, etc.? I've got news for you -- I personally know people who were accepted to each of those places, this cycle, who didn't even get interviews at NYU.

Public perception might take a few years to catch up (just like it took UNSWR a few years to reflect what actually happened on the ground beginning in 2019), but the actual applicant pool has already made a decision, beginning in 2019, and it's reflected in every metric of who actually is accepted by and enrolls at NYU. There won't be anywhere further to go when a PD ranking finally reflects the quality of who is attending BYU now, and there is no hidden pool of talent that will suddenly materialize in the future to "not insignificantly" make the quality of NYU's students "even better."

Stats, ECs, etc. literally have nowhere to go but down. They are maxed out. Do you honestly think there are enough people, with the requisite holistic applications to constitute a minimally adequately diverse class in 2022, to support a median MCAT at the 100%-ile??? 🙂 Are there enough talented applicants to fill a class where a 4.0 GPA is a requirement? I don't think so.

We can argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but I don't think the "quality" of students can get meaningfully better than what it is today.

 

[BRTC200]

Really? As measured by what??? Median MCAT = 522 (99%-ile) GPA = 3.95. How much better can it get?

My point isn't that it's not awesome; it is. My point was that free tuition already drove the change. Nobody waited for validation via USNWR ranking. The ranking is a lagging indicator, and the change already occurred. Yield is approaching its realistic maximum, given there are other great schools, in other great locations, that will always be able to effectively compete for the same tippy top students.

Stats, ECs, etc. literally have nowhere to go but down. They are maxed out. Do you honestly think there are enough people, with the requisite holistic applications to constitute a minimally adequately diverse class in 2022, to support a median MCAT at the 100%-ile??? 🙂 Are there enough talented applicants to fill a class where a 4.0 GPA is a requirement? I don't think so.

We can argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but I don't think the "quality" of students can get meaningfully better than what it is today.

You of all people should know stats mean little in the grand scheme of things. I'm not expecting these stats to change meaningfully. I'm expecting the quality of applicants and matriculants to improve in the intangibles. Yield is not going up, but NYU still has the potential to be recognized as a top-top-tier school by a not-insignificant sector of top-top applicants. Wade out anywhere outside of this NYU school-specific thread (like the USNWR thread you were just on) and you'll easily find people skeptical about NYU's high ranking on USNWR. And as of now, it's easy to support an assertion like that- NYU doesn't have a T2 match list, and NYU doesn't have a T2 PD ranking. These things will come with time, but until then, general perception will NOT always align with NYU's USNWR ranking. This is why I consider their USNWR rank only an early indicator of prestige.

Yes, it is easily possible to have applicants with even higher quality intangible qualities, yet maintain same/similar/slightly lower MCATs and GPAs, and have this group therefore comprise a greater portion of accepted applicants, yet be similarly recruited away by other top-tier institutions, thereby keeping yield about the same. This isn't a difficult scenario to imagine.

 

[KnightDoc]

You of all people should know stats mean little in the grand scheme of things. I'm not expecting these stats to change meaningfully. I'm expecting the quality of applicants and matriculants to improve in the intangibles. Yield is not going up, but NYU still has the potential to be recognized as a top-top-tier school by a not-insignificant sector of top-top applicants. Wade out anywhere outside of this NYU school-specific thread (like the USNWR thread you were just on) and you'll easily find people skeptical about NYU's high ranking on USNWR. And as of now, it's easy to support an assertion like that- NYU doesn't have a T2 match list, and NYU doesn't have a T2 PD ranking. These things will come with time, but until then, general perception will NOT always align with NYU's USNWR ranking. This is why I consider their USNWR rank only an early indicator of prestige.

Yes, it is easily possible to have applicants with even higher quality intangible qualities, yet maintain same/similar/slightly lower MCATs and GPAs, and have this group therefore comprise a greater portion of accepted applicants, yet be similarly recruited away by other top-tier institutions, thereby keeping yield about the same. This isn't a difficult scenario to imagine.

I totally agree, but just wait and see what happens as 4/30 approaches. I've watched it the past few cycles. People talk a good game, and stars with multiple acceptances will try to get "better" schools, with even more impressive match lists, to match NYU's offer. And then they'll PTE at NYU. That's why the yield is 65%. The yield is 20% at the MSTP program, where free tuition is not a distinguishing feature.

Nothing is going to change. NYU is already getting more than its share of top applicants, regardless of its ranking. It doesn't have a T2 match list because it hasn't matched a class that was attracted with free tuition. Get back to us after the match list for the Class of 2023 is published.

Nobody waited for the match list. Very few people borrow an extra $250K+ to choose Harvard/UCSF/Stanford/etc. over NYU, starting in 2019.

No, it's not possible to meaningfully increase the quality of the class. The people who would be attracted by whatever you think is going to stimulate increased demand in the future are already attracted by $250K+ less in debt. Chicken and egg. The people already in the school are in the process of creating the perception that you think is necessary to attract more of them. The only problem is, NYU is already pulling its entire class from other top schools. There are no more, better people to pull in.

 

[bignervousenergy]

Anyone know when WL movement happens here?

 

[proudofmykids]

Anyone know when WL movement happens here?

Last Year WL movement started around now and ended by around May 20.
Each WL offer given after April 30 provides a one week window to update their PTE and withdraw any other Acdepted/PTE if chosen.

 

[joshuamarcus]

Anyone get the webinar email?

 

[iia]

Anyone get the webinar email?

Yes, what’s the dress code?

 

[stm824]

Yes, what’s the dress code?

Probably casual? From my experience half the people at these meetings don't even turn on their camera

 

[acqbrrn]

Are letters of interest or intent important here? Or are they actively discouraged?

 

[iia]

Dean Rivera specifically said, “do not send us letters of interest or intent. We will not read them and they do not hold weight here. We just assume you want to go here,” during my interview day — so yeah I would call that actively discouraged

What if I have significant updates like publication/employment?

 

[proudofmykids]

What if I have significant updates like publication/employment?

that is an update, not an LOI. Send it.
Asking to add it to your file.
However, I think their top 30 WL candidates are likely identified already.

 

[stm824]

Did he say what the expected WL movement is this year at the beginning of the meeting? I missed it.