2021-2022 Wake Forest

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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Does anyone know/have the link to the accepted students chat?
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I would assume Wake Forest operates like most other schools where some individuals receive pre-II rejections, some get interviewed, and many stay in a limbo status that would essentially be a 'hold' at other schools like Tulane, Drexel, etc. they just don't let us know about our status.
 
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A final decision has been made on my app. Hmm, I wonder what it could be /s Not even gonna log in, complete late August
 
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Has anyone else still not heard anything since being complete in July?
 
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can't believe they made me log in to the portal to see my R. OOS complete late august
 
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Pre-II R just now. Good luck to everyone and congrats to those WL/A!
 
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Word on the street, last virtual session was 2/23
 
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So are there no more IIs? Don't want to put time into writing an LOI if there's no point...
 
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Where do you click to see the R? I got the email today and I don't see anything uploaded on my portal
 
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They sent me an email about status update but there’s nothing in my portal… Where would I find this?
 
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It took about 10 mins from the email being sent for the decision letter to show up in my portal (it's on the front page)
 
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Thanks you, wake forest, for making me gain access to a portal and wait an appropriate amount of time for it to update so that I may read the rejection. That makes far more sense than just.....including it....in the original email....
 
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Has anyone still not gotten the R…? Complete late August here
 
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FINALLY got my pre-Interview R just now! OOS, Complete 7/27. Hope my secondary fee goes to some good scholarships for yall 😤 Good luck to everyone still in the running!
 
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Got an email saying that a final decision has been made. No letter yet and I will wait 🙂
 
9PM and got an email saying they made a decision. Haven't interviewed here, wonder what it'll be!
 
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wmd_1 said:
Got an email saying that a final decision has been made. No letter yet and I will wait 🙂
Click to expand...
Got it, it’s a pre-II R~ I knew it! If it were an II, it would not be “a decision has been made” lol
 
GL everyone, it’s been a ride
 
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Pre-II R after submitting 7/26. Good luck to everyone still in the running. :)
 
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Current M3 here who wants to talk a little about the pros and cons I’ve experienced here at Wake and how knowing this info may have changed where I went to med school originally.

Our preclinical curriculum isn’t great in all honesty but this could be d/t COVID or other confounding variables. This isn’t especially unique to Wake (it’s across the board for the class of 2024 - friends at Emory, Gtown, USC, etc have said similar things) and it seemed like an uphill struggle to get our class to pass step 1.

Sure, we’re p/f and not ranked on the MSPE which is great, but you’re still internally ranked for AOA which they weren’t transparent about.

If you’re not fully abled prepare for an uphill battle - Wake isn’t good at accommodating those things imo. If you don’t stand your ground and/or get a lawyer involved, you’re likely not going to get what you need and are afforded under the ADA (in special situations; they're great w/ normal ones). Re: posters below - yes, they will accommodate mental health/personal crises/family issues and let you take a LOA or work with you; accommodations outside of the norm seem to be more difficult for them but this is likely true across the board in medicine as the attitude seems to be more of a tough-luck view.

The third-year clerkships… are broken into trimesters. You have little say in what order you do them and ultimately NO ELECTIVE TIME. This year, they’re not letting students even choose a subspecialty to rotate on for their surgery or IM rotations. This is a HUGE disadvantage compared to other schools. You can get screwed over because you’re not getting exposure to fields you may want to go into. (MDs who went to other institutions told me that this system is not what they've seen in their training and they believe it is a disadvantage. It would be nice to have emergency medicine (a 4th year rotation generally) moved to 4th year to give students a month to explore a specialty of interest but I recognize there is a reason why they do things how they do them and that's ok.)

Step 2 is going to be the new step 1. There is no additional study time for step 2 (hopefully this changes going forward).

Our clerkship grading system is absolutely whack. Instead of your shelf grade, evals, etc all making up a part of the grade (say 30%, 50%, 20% other) to average out to H/HP/P/F, you have to get honors in every single aspect to honor a clerkship. You got high pass on one part and honors on everything else? Sorry, that’s a high pass. (Again MDs that I know at other institutions or that didn't go to med school here but trained here find this system bizarre. Theoretically, everyone could get honors in a rotation which is nice but it can be tough to do well on everything.)

The diversity at the school is significantly lacking and Winston-Salem low key sucks to live in if you’re not married or in a long-term relationship. Wake seems to be focusing more on their new Charlotte branch campus than on improving their home campus in Winston.

Med school is high school 2.0. It’s insanely cliquey here. This may be the norm but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some good things - admin listens to students and changes things, we aren’t ranked on our MSPE, you only have to live here for 4 years

Lastly, my views are my own and do not represent those of the institution
*edited d/t responses below
 
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I don't know how to quote messages but I wanted to provide a little more information in regards to the above. I'm also a current M3 (about to be M4). Due to Wake's extended 4th year scheduling there are two classes of M3s for the next week so I can't say whether I'm in the same class as TheDataKing.

"preclinical curriculum isn't that great... we are struggling to get student to pass Step 1"
While there are definitely places it could be improved, c/o 2023 and before didn't have any issues passing Step 1 and we had the same pre-clinical curriculum. So I don't think you can blame it on that.

I agree that the school should be more upfront about the internal ranking for AOA. I remember someone asking about it on interview day and the school was pretty cagey about it.

"you’re likely not going to get what you need and are afforded under the ADA"
I can't speak to this personally but a couple of my close friends have encountered this and not had any issues. YMMV

I agree that it would be nice to have more say over third-year scheduling. While we don't get elective time we do have an extended 4th year which gives you 3-4 rotations before most students have finished third year, so it's not like it'll be August and you've had zero chances to see your sub-specialty of interest.
My year got to request surgery, peds, and IM sub-specialties. I'm not sure why they've gotten rid of this, definitely bring it up with admin if it's bothering you. That's probably something that could be easily changed, even midway through the year.
The clerkship grading system could be better but most rotations have a bit of wiggle room. So if you hit Honors for Clinical and just miss for Shelf you might get bumped. I've also heard that a pretty significant percentage of people get Honors in each clerkship (~30%). You get to see the histograms on your MSPE but my year hasn't gotten ours yet, so not 100% sure.

"There is no additional study time for step 2"
You get a month guaranteed study time in 4th year. You can also take up to 2 additional flex blocks that year (usually used for interviews and vacation) if you want more time. That should be more than enough.

"Winston-Salem low key sucks to live in"
I mean coming from the PNW I don't disagree LOL but different people like different things! For a lot of my friends this is the biggest city they've ever lived in so they're loving it.
Med school is insanely cliquey though. True facts. But I think that's pretty much any professional school.
 
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TheDataKing said:
Current M3 here who wants to talk a little about the pros and cons I’ve experienced here at Wake and how knowing this info may have changed where I went to med school originally.

Our preclinical curriculum isn’t great in all honesty. This isn’t especially unique to Wake (it’s across the board for class of 2024) but we are struggling to get students to pass step 1.

Sure, we’re p/f and not ranked on the MSPE which is great, but you’re still internally ranked for AOA which they weren’t transparent about.

If you’re not fully abled prepare for an uphill battle - Wake isn’t good at accommodating those things imo. If you don’t stand your ground and/or get a lawyer involved, you’re likely not going to get what you need and are afforded under the ADA.

The third year clerkships… are broken into trimesters. You have little say in what order you do them and ultimately NO ELECTIVE TIME. This year, they’re not letting students even choose a subspecialty to rotate on for their surgery or IM rotations. This is a HUGE disadvantage compared to other schools. You can get screwed over because you’re not getting exposure to fields you may want to go into.

Step 2 is going to be the new step 1. There is no additional study time for step 2 (hopefully this changes going forward).

Our clerkship grading system is absolutely whack. Instead of your shelf grade, evals, etc all making up a part of the grade (say 30%, 50%, 20% other) to average out to H/HP/P/F, you have to get honors in every single aspect to honor a clerkship. You got high pass on one part and honors on everything else? Sorry, that’s a high pass.

The diversity at the school is significantly lacking and Winston-Salem low key sucks to live in if you’re not married or in a long term relationship. Wake seems to be focusing more on their new Charlotte branch campus than on improving their home campus in Winston and it shows.

Med school is high school 2.0. It’s insanely cliquey here. This may be the norm but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some good things - sometimes admin listens to students and changes things, we aren’t ranked on our MSPE, you only have to live here for 4 years
Click to expand...
I would like to go ahead and address some of these point and provide some clarity on the situation. @hmug did a great job responding to the concerns here. As another older student at Wake, I would also like to diffuse any concern you may have as an applicant looking at Wake for medical school.

The preclinical curriculum is, in my experience, fantastic. They don't waste your time in lectures that are not relevant. They teach you clinically relevant material and Step relevant material, often differentiating which is which. Classes of 2021, 2022, and 2023 all went through this curriculum, did quite well on Step 1, and now are all through third year having done quite well on Shelf exams and Step 2. The preclinical curriculum isn't broken. The Step 2 averages of these classes (except 2023, which hasn't yet taken Step 2) are several points above the national average. Also, as someone who hasn't started third year (the new M3s are in orientation, haven't yet to actually be on the wards), it is not a fair assessment by TheDataKing to say the grading system of third year is "whack". She/He/They are hardly a third year so seems a bit underhanded to speak like they know how third year operates. As the other poster pointed out, many students do quite well in each rotation. There is more wiggle room in each rotation than you would expect there to be and the clinical coordinators are often willing to consider bumping you up a grade, even if you don't meet all the criteria for an Honors or High Pass.

I'm not going to go through and argue point by point through everything here. Is Wake perfect? Not at all. Is any school perfect? I wish. But does Wake do a good job of listening to its students, attempting to adopt curriculum changes when necessary, and making sure that students have the resources they need to succeed? Absolutely. A few learning points from this post though:
-I will agree with TheDataKing on one thing--medical school is incredibly tough emotionally and mentally. So being at a place that respects your ability to work as a student depends on your ability to be mentally healthy. Wake recognizes that students will have time where they need extra support. I have had a few friends leave for mental health reasons this year and the school was happy to help them out, shift their rotations around, and accommodate them as needed. No lawyer necessary. As for preclinical, a few of my classmates had to step away from the curriculum for a variety of reasons and the school worked with them to figure out how to keep them up with their current class or make space in the following class, if needed. During the pandemic, the school had to accommodate students in different time zones--different countries even--and the school did that, no lawyer necessary. It saddens me that TheDataKing thinks s/he has to turn to that legal recourse to get their way whenever something doesn't seem to line up for them. This has not been a theme seen by any other student at Wake that I know of. I, personally, have been incredibly impressed by Wake's ability to be flexible for students during complications in their life and I know many of my classmates would agree. Just wanted to provide a much more realistic perspective of life at Wake if you do need to put life on hold (for physical, family, or mental health reasons) during medical school.
-Professionalism is crucial in medicine! There were some curriculum changes made to third year rotations, which seemingly has set this poster off because she or he or they cannot be guaranteed a certain two week experience in their third year surgery rotation. A good life lesson here (for medicine or any industry) is that it is never a good look to go around bashing your employer, boss, or school, particularly when the narrative says otherwise (which hopefully @hmugs and I have convinced you of) (also please note that other previous students in this SDN forum and in other previous years of SDN posts have never encountered these issues--so this seems to be a one off event of a frustrated student). Medicine is a very small world in actuality and it does not do well to build such a reputation.

As future doctors, Wake does expect professionalism and excellence from its students. If you have been selected as an accepted student here at Wake, we are incredibly thrilled for you and hope that you will come to Second Look and speak with us students at that time so that we can show you why we love being here! I'm happy to also message with people if they have more questions about Wake and I hope that you all can recognize the frustration from TheDataKing as well as the opportunity for her to grow from this. Of note, I will not be responding to her messages or comments after this. Other students at Wake are welcome to chime in with their experiences.
 
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BlackandBlues said:
I would like to go ahead and address some of these point and provide some clarity on the situation. @hmug did a great job responding to the concerns here. As another older student at Wake, I would also like to diffuse any concern you may have as an applicant looking at Wake for medical school.

The preclinical curriculum is, in my experience, fantastic. They don't waste your time in lectures that are not relevant. They teach you clinically relevant material and Step relevant material, often differentiating which is which. Classes of 2021, 2022, and 2023 all went through this curriculum, did quite well on Step 1, and now are all through third year having done quite well on Shelf exams and Step 2. The preclinical curriculum isn't broken. The Step 2 averages of these classes (except 2023, which hasn't yet taken Step 2) are several points above the national average. Also, as someone who hasn't started third year (the new M3s are in orientation, haven't yet to actually be on the wards), it is not a fair assessment by TheDataKing to say the grading system of third year is "whack". She/He/They are hardly a third year so seems a bit underhanded to speak like they know how third year operates. As the other poster pointed out, many students do quite well in each rotation. There is more wiggle room in each rotation than you would expect there to be and the clinical coordinators are often willing to consider bumping you up a grade, even if you don't meet all the criteria for an Honors or High Pass.

I'm not going to go through and argue point by point through everything here. Is Wake perfect? Not at all. Is any school perfect? I wish. But does Wake do a good job of listening to its students, attempting to adopt curriculum changes when necessary, and making sure that students have the resources they need to succeed? Absolutely. A few learning points from this post though:
-I will agree with TheDataKing on one thing--medical school is incredibly tough emotionally and mentally. So being at a place that respects your ability to work as a student depends on your ability to be mentally healthy. Wake recognizes that students will have time where they need extra support. I have had a few friends leave for mental health reasons this year and the school was happy to help them out, shift their rotations around, and accommodate them as needed. No lawyer necessary. As for preclinical, a few of my classmates had to step away from the curriculum for a variety of reasons and the school worked with them to figure out how to keep them up with their current class or make space in the following class, if needed. During the pandemic, the school had to accommodate students in different time zones--different countries even--and the school did that, no lawyer necessary. It saddens me that TheDataKing thinks s/he has to turn to that legal recourse to get their way whenever something doesn't seem to line up for them. This has not been a theme seen by any other student at Wake that I know of. I, personally, have been incredibly impressed by Wake's ability to be flexible for students during complications in their life and I know many of my classmates would agree. Just wanted to provide a much more realistic perspective of life at Wake if you do need to put life on hold (for physical, family, or mental health reasons) during medical school.
-Professionalism is crucial in medicine! There were some curriculum changes made to third year rotations, which seemingly has set this poster off because she or he or they cannot be guaranteed a certain two week experience in their third year surgery rotation. A good life lesson here (for medicine or any industry) is that it is never a good look to go around bashing your employer, boss, or school, particularly when the narrative says otherwise (which hopefully @hmugs and I have convinced you of) (also please note that other previous students in this SDN forum and in other previous years of SDN posts have never encountered these issues--so this seems to be a one off event of a frustrated student). Medicine is a very small world in actuality and it does not do well to build such a reputation.

As future doctors, Wake does expect professionalism and excellence from its students. If you have been selected as an accepted student here at Wake, we are incredibly thrilled for you and hope that you will come to Second Look and speak with us students at that time so that we can show you why we love being here! I'm happy to also message with people if they have more questions about Wake and I hope that you all can recognize the frustration from TheDataKing as well as the opportunity for her to grow from this. Of note, I will not be responding to her messages or comments after this. Other students at Wake are welcome to chime in with their experiences.
Click to expand...
Hi all, rising MS3 here and wanted to just say I agree completely with blackandblues. Unfortunately, DataKing seems to have a pessimistic view about how things function in the real world. I believe most of the things being said by her are out of frustration and not an accurate representation of our institution which is unfortunate. You’re not going to get perfection from any school you decide to go to and that includes Wake.

Speaking from experience, I LOVED the pre-clinical curriculum here at Wake and I NEVER felt like the school was not doing their part to give us the best experience. Regarding most of our class struggling to pass Step 1, my assumption is it has nothing to do with the curriculum (since literally every class before us has passed without much struggle) and everything to do with Step 1 being p/f and not much effort being put into it as years prior. I think this is a something that most schools will deal with. I recommend starting Anki early and studying as if it was scored so you are more likely to pass.

Regardless of which school you decide to go to, you are going to experience things that may need improvement. Wake is highly receptive to student feedback. Medical school is difficult and emotionally taxing. My greatest advise for everyone here (regardless of the school you end up going to) is to stay humble, have gratitude, and appreciate where you are. If you possess those qualities, you’ll be less inclined to find faults in everything, more likely to see the good in things, and a happier overall person.
 
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Just wanted to chime in and agree with the three messages above:

I am also an incoming M3. I believe my class and classes across the nation (georgetown, Columbia, Emory etc) who are taking the recently p/f step 1 severely underestimated what it takes to pass the exam if you are not studying with the intention of receiving a high score. With no previous class having issues with the pre-clinical curriculum and passing step 1, it is unfair and misleading to say that the pre clinical curriculum contributed to some students in my class struggling to pass step 1. At the end of the day, it is up to you, an adult, self directed medical student to ensure you are patching weak areas to pass step 1. It is the faculty responsibility to teach, but your responsibility to maintain that information and use necessary board resources to simultaneously study for step 1. Faculty at Wake are fantastic, lecturers take feedback and modify, lecturers emphasize clinically relevant material that allows us to succeed during M3 which is why it is up to the medical student to study the obscure zebras that are tested on step 1 (why the exam went p/f in the first place.) No matter how well a lecturer teaches, if you don’t attempt to maintain the material using Anki, complete uworld questions diligently, watch all the boards videos required, you will struggle. Students in the past aiming for high scores did that as a default so had no problems passing. Data shows that many students in my class did not meet the bench mark for uworld percentage complete by x time, for example, when compared to previous classes. So, no, the school is absolutely not to blame for the collective experiences of my class and the national underestimation of what is required to pass step 1.

As for M3. I will keep this short since I am an incoming M3. If you don’t get a 2 week surgical subspecialty rotation during your M3 it is not make or break - we finish M3 so so much earlier than a lot of schools like others mentioned. Derm, pathology, radiology etc students match just fine without a rotation during M3. As for grading, I think it is fair. Students who honor should be those who 100% excel in all components - professionalism, clinical reasoning and knowledge base (shelf). That’s what honoring means. Life is not fair, you may not honor everything you think you deserve to honor. You accept, reflect, reassess and move on - that is what a confident and exceptional student doctor embodies.

When making an informed decision I urge you to take advice collectively instead of being swayed by any one student’s polarizing opinion due to personal reasons.
 
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TheDataKing said:
Current M3 here who wants to talk a little about the pros and cons I’ve experienced here at Wake and how knowing this info may have changed where I went to med school originally.

Our preclinical curriculum isn’t great in all honesty but this could be d/t COVID or other confounding variables. This isn’t especially unique to Wake (it’s across the board for the class of 2024 - friends at Emory, Gtown, USC, etc have said similar things) and it seemed like an uphill struggle to get our class to pass step 1.

Sure, we’re p/f and not ranked on the MSPE which is great, but you’re still internally ranked for AOA which they weren’t transparent about.

If you’re not fully abled prepare for an uphill battle - Wake isn’t good at accommodating those things imo. If you don’t stand your ground and/or get a lawyer involved, you’re likely not going to get what you need and are afforded under the ADA (in special situations; they're great w/ normal ones). Re: posters below - yes, they will accommodate mental health/personal crises/family issues and let you take a LOA or work with you; accommodations outside of the norm seem to be more difficult for them but this is likely true across the board in medicine as the attitude seems to be more of a tough-luck view.

The third-year clerkships… are broken into trimesters. You have little say in what order you do them and ultimately NO ELECTIVE TIME. This year, they’re not letting students even choose a subspecialty to rotate on for their surgery or IM rotations. This is a HUGE disadvantage compared to other schools. You can get screwed over because you’re not getting exposure to fields you may want to go into. (MDs who went to other institutions told me that this system is not what they've seen in their training and they believe it is a disadvantage. It would be nice to have emergency medicine (a 4th year rotation generally) moved to 4th year to give students a month to explore a specialty of interest but I recognize there is a reason why they do things how they do them and that's ok.)

Step 2 is going to be the new step 1. There is no additional study time for step 2 (hopefully this changes going forward).

Our clerkship grading system is absolutely whack. Instead of your shelf grade, evals, etc all making up a part of the grade (say 30%, 50%, 20% other) to average out to H/HP/P/F, you have to get honors in every single aspect to honor a clerkship. You got high pass on one part and honors on everything else? Sorry, that’s a high pass. (Again MDs that I know at other institutions or that didn't go to med school here but trained here find this system bizarre. Theoretically, everyone could get honors in a rotation which is nice but it can be tough to do well on everything.)

The diversity at the school is significantly lacking and Winston-Salem low key sucks to live in if you’re not married or in a long-term relationship. Wake seems to be focusing more on their new Charlotte branch campus than on improving their home campus in Winston.

Med school is high school 2.0. It’s insanely cliquey here. This may be the norm but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some good things - admin listens to students and changes things, we aren’t ranked on our MSPE, you only have to live here for 4 years

Lastly, my views are my own and do not represent those of the institution
*edited d/t responses below
Click to expand...
Another M3 chiming in here - Lots of great things have been said so far, and I would like to contribute a few additional thoughts. "DataKing" is well known to our class as someone who fans flames of contention and we consistently see sparks of negative feedback fly at any available opportunity.

I certainly have seen opportunities for Wake to improve curriculum, but they consistently are open to suggestions and feedback and are so quick to implement the ideas of students. The faculty are fantastic, and the curriculum prepared me well for step one (I never failed a single practice exam, and also felt no questions thrown at me were unreasonable). I would reaffirm the statements made prior that many students underestimated the challenging nature of passing step one. When deciding which medical school best meets your needs, I would stand by the statement that WF stands amongst the best schools in their dedication towards preparing students to exceptionally perform as future providers.

To those applying to medical schools - gratitude, hard work, humility, and recognizing that we are not entitled to anything will take you far in life and will contribute to your success at any institution.
 
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