BU vs Jefferson

[chillbrolol]

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Hey guys, I have been accepted to both BU and Jefferson through their respective BS/MD programs as a high school senior. I'm looking for advice on which program to choose and how this will impact me when it comes time to apply to residency.

BU's Program
- 7 years (3 years undergrad, 4 years medical school)
- Need to take the "new" MCAT
- Must maintain at least a 3.2 GPA (I've heard that BU is known for grade deflation)
- Students in the program have to follow a fairly rigid schedule
- There is a mandatory 12 week summer session after the 2nd year of undergrad
- The med school is Pass/Fail unranked for the preclinical years
- BUSM is ranked #30 by US News

Penn State/Jefferson
- 6 years (2 years at Penn State undergrad, 4 years at Jefferson Medical College)
- Can take the current MCAT. Need a 30 composite on the MCAT with at least a 9 on each section.
- Penn State undergrad accepts a lot of AP Credit, so I'll be able to take classes that interest me.
- There is a mandatory 6 week summer session
- The med school is H/P/F and ranked (Will this be much more stressful?)
- Jefferson is ranked #64 by US News

I'd greatly appreciate some feedback on which option to choose. I'm blessed for having the opportunity to pick between medical schools, and I'd like to make the most pragmatic decision to ensure that I remain competitive when it comes time to apply to residency programs.

Thanks in advance!

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Consider cost of each program. What score do you need on the 2015 MCAT for BU? If you were competitive enough to get accepted to 2 BS/MD programs a 30 should definitely be manageable for you on the old MCAT (not sure how scoring etc will work with new MCAT). A 3.2 will likewise be manageable for you.

I'm leaning BU right now without knowing the cost for either program.

 

[fourhumours]

whatever you do, DO NOT USE THE US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT RANKINGS!

this past rankings for the peer assesment (i.e. 40% of their weighted average) they had a response rate from medical schools of 38% and residencies of like 12 and 16%.

this is a good read for any new applicant. http://medical-mastermind-community...Best_Medical_Schools__A_Critique_of_the.5.pdf

this years response rates: http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../11/methodology-best-medical-schools-rankings


I'd say think long and hard about whether you will really be ready for medical school after only two years of undergrad (will you be sacrificing experiences in undergrad to get through medical school quicker). my mother did a 6 year program and basically did nothing but study in undergrad. also like above money, if its an issue, is something to think about since BU is private.

good luck on your decision, definitely a good one to have!

 

[galaxyx]

Where are you from? Where do you want to live? and what's your money situation?

I personally would rather spend 7 years in Boston than 2 in State College and 4 in Philly. Neither State College nor Philly are particularly desirable places to live. But if you're from PA, you can save a good chunk on tuition spending 2 years at Penn State that's probably worth it.

 

[twizzlers713]

State college is a fairly desolate place but if you're a college football guy that will help. I would rather attend PSU over BU as far as the undergrad experience goes though. Boston is a better location. Is one significantly cheaper overall?

 

[235009]

this is indeed a tough choice. both r solid med schools but i would suggest choosing based on location and reputation. despite what the pre-meds say US news rankings correlate quite closely to med school reputation and med school reputation can give you a significant boost when it comes time for residency apps. the difference between #30 and #64 is pretty significant. I would suggest going to BU despite the extra year, having to take the new MCAT and the more rigorous schedule ...it'll likely pay off at the end. The cost difference likely won't be big if you are paying out of state tuition at Penn State since both BU and Jeff are private schools.

 

[rodmichael82]

Bu

 

[nychila]

Neither State College nor Philly are particularly desirable places to live.

I'm not from the area, so I'm curious, what's bad about Philly?

 

[UrbanRiver]

Why do these schools require you to take the MCAT? I thought the whole point of these bacc/MD programs is to save you that trouble. I'm not being facetious .. just curious as to what the point of these programs are then? Is it to save you that extra year and give you a peace of mind? Well, I guess if you take the MCAT and do well, you could apply to more schools to open up your options. Congrats on both schools.. you must be a bright kid. I'd say go BU. Reputation is important in some ways.. and I personally like Boston as a city.

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[LovelyBRass]

Hey guys, I have been accepted to both BU and Jefferson through their respective BS/MD programs as a high school senior. I'm looking for advice on which program to choose and how this will impact me when it comes time to apply to residency.

BU's Program
- 7 years (3 years undergrad, 4 years medical school)
- Need to take the "new" MCAT
- Must maintain at least a 3.2 GPA (I've heard that BU is known for grade deflation)
- Students in the program have to follow a fairly rigid schedule
- There is a mandatory 12 week summer session after the 2nd year of undergrad
- The med school is Pass/Fail unranked for the preclinical years
- BUSM is ranked #30 by US News

Penn State/Jefferson
- 6 years (2 years at Penn State undergrad, 4 years at Jefferson Medical College)
- Can take the current MCAT. Need a 30 composite on the MCAT with at least a 9 on each section.
- Penn State undergrad accepts a lot of AP Credit, so I'll be able to take classes that interest me.
- There is a mandatory 6 week summer session
- The med school is H/P/F and ranked (Will this be much more stressful?)
- Jefferson is ranked #64 by US News

I'd greatly appreciate some feedback on which option to choose. I'm blessed for having the opportunity to pick between medical schools, and I'd like to make the most pragmatic decision to ensure that I remain competitive when it comes time to apply to residency programs.

Thanks in advance!

Congratulations!

Choose neither and spend four years at a college dictating your own life and schedule and spend time growing up 🙂 You're clearly an exceptional high school graduate - go to a wowser undergrad.

 

[lollerskater]

What state are you from?

US News rankings do not mean a single thing for a med student, so don't listen to the guy who said BU because of the rankings.

7 years at BU is going to be a LOT of money - upwards of $60,000 a year for undergrad and $80,000 a year for med. Which adds up to $500,000. That is a pretty unmanageable amount of money, if you have to take out loans, even considering your future physician income

EDIT: unreal... BU is even more expensive for undergrad than my ceiling estimate... http://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-education/undergraduate/

 

[235009]

US News rankings do not mean a single thing for a med student, so don't listen to the guy who said BU because of the rankings.

premed: don't listen to that 4th year med student, he has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to residency apps

😕

 

[riddler]

Congratulations!

Choose neither and spend four years at a college dictating your own life and schedule and spend time growing up 🙂 You're clearly an exceptional high school graduate - go to a wowser undergrad.

+1. I decided against BS/MD programs from high school and it was perhaps the best decision I could have made. I've realized that college is really important for growth. Like, really. I thought I was mature coming out of high school, but, looking back, I can't believe how ignorant/immature I was.

If you are set on one of these programs, keep in mind that Penn State, at 6 years, is pretty intense. So intense that you also have to be in school for the summers for your undergrad period (I believe). I can understand the rush to quickly enter medical school/become a physician--many people have felt it, too, I'm sure--but the Penn State program just sounds like a quick and easy route to burning out and not having a truly enjoyable experience in neither college nor medical school.

Choose wisely!

 

[lollerskater]

premed: don't listen to that 4th year med student, he has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to residency apps

😕

Ha. Ladies and gentlemen, that is what we call a fallacious argument.

Clearly you haven't looked into the actual program cost differences between the two: the PA program is one year less, and Penn state OOS tuition (if he is indeed not a PA resident) is still far less than BU's tuition.

I refuse to believe that the med school matters more than the person and their board scores, and that seems to be the majority consensus from med students and residents on these forums. But whatever, keep flaunting your "authority"

 

[LovelyBRass]

Ha. Ladies and gentlemen, that is what we call a fallacious argument.

Clearly you haven't looked into the actual program cost differences between the two: the PA program is one year less, and Penn state OOS tuition (if he is indeed not a PA resident) is still far less than BU's tuition.

I refuse to believe that the med school matters more than the person and their board scores, and that seems to be the majority consensus from med students and residents on these forums. But whatever, keep flaunting your "authority"

Whatever neither one is that amazing, but BU is definitely more competitive so you'd probably want to go there if anywhere. Your medical school's reputation helps and neither will hurt you (though BU will help you crack Boston's exclusivity; Philly isn't quite as competitive for residency). (to lollerskater: go to any of the physician/specialty forums - everyone's talking about how much medical school mattered more than they expected)

But seriously, squeezing all of your education into such a short amount of time - it makes me shudder. There's a reason people say to take time off after undergrad rather than running straight to medical school. It sounds really nice now but I'm telling you, nothing beats having some time to grow into your own person before you embark on something as rigorous as a medical education. You just can't compete in terms of life experience and maturity (which spills over into how well you handle your work load too!) with people who took the circuitous route.

 

[KinasePro]

I refuse to believe that the med school matters more than the person and their board scores, and that seems to be the majority consensus from med students and residents on these forums. But whatever, keep flaunting your "authority"

Everything matters. Period. Don't let the SDN dogmas fool you. Especially for top-tier residencies and surgical specialties, school name and reputation are huge. While its true that anyone can match into any specialty from any US allopathic school, if you're gunning for the top tier then reputation has a significant influence.

That being said, I think this is a moot point in this case, as Jeff and BU are roughly equivalent in terms of reputation IMO. I might give Jeff a slight edge, simply because they have more elite residencies than BU does (jeff is great in radiology, ortho, and neurosurg; BU isn't top tier in any, though their IM residency is strong). Strong home residencies = better faculty connections = slight advantage in the match.

 

[tantacles]

My answer? Go to Jefferson if you choose to do one of these programs. Money and time are at the heart of the matter here for me.

Saving a year's worth of tuition is huge, and honestly, it'll make a huge difference considering the fact that much of your funding is likely to be from loans.

H/P/F shouldn't be more stressful unless you decide to make it more stressful. My school is on A/B/C/F scale, and I'm not stressed in the slightest despite the fact that I get mostly C's. That's what I'm aiming for so that I don't burn out.

However, most importantly, do you have a chance to go back and take a second look at the medical schools? Ideally, you should get a chance to see how each med school's structure works so that you can make an informed decision based on which medical school you'd be more happy at, since you'll be spending more time at the medical school than at undergrad.

 

[lollerskater]

ok, I was a bit overzealous in my statement, but quoting US News rankings as a measure of reputation/prestige? Give me a break..

 

[235009]

Congratulations!

Choose neither and spend four years at a college dictating your own life and schedule and spend time growing up 🙂 You're clearly an exceptional high school graduate - go to a wowser undergrad.

+1. I decided against BS/MD programs from high school and it was perhaps the best decision I could have made. I've realized that college is really important for growth. Like, really. I thought I was mature coming out of high school, but, looking back, I can't believe how ignorant/immature I was.

If you are set on one of these programs, keep in mind that Penn State, at 6 years, is pretty intense. So intense that you also have to be in school for the summers for your undergrad period (I believe). I can understand the rush to quickly enter medical school/become a physician--many people have felt it, too, I'm sure--but the Penn State program just sounds like a quick and easy route to burning out and not having a truly enjoyable experience in neither college nor medical school.

Choose wisely!

+2 ...i think college is definitely a great time to grow up. time off between college and med school is also a great thing. it's not a race and you'll find that social and emotional maturity are highly desirable qualities during 3rd and 4th year of med school.

Ha. Ladies and gentlemen, that is what we call a fallacious argument.

Clearly you haven't looked into the actual program cost differences between the two: the PA program is one year less, and Penn state OOS tuition (if he is indeed not a PA resident) is still far less than BU's tuition.

I refuse to believe that the med school matters more than the person and their board scores, and that seems to be the majority consensus from med students and residents on these forums. But whatever, keep flaunting your "authority"

I'm not "flaunting my authority" i'm speaking from experience. the fact that you "refuse to believe" something doesn't automatically make it untrue. i'm sorry to break it to you but the school you attend matters significantly. there is tons of evidence to support this...all you need to do is glance at the match lists. if you get two people with identical stats, barring any special connections, the person at the more reputable school will match better 9 times out of 10 (assuming the difference in reputation is significant).

in terms of the tuition it's definitely worthwhile to ask about financial aid first ...you never know what they might offer you during the undergrad period. it's also unwise to give advise based on finances without actually quantifying what the cost difference will be. paying a premium for the eventual payoff of going to a more reputable school is a lot more common than some very vocal SDN posters would like you to believe. finally why do you automatically assume that there is zero parental contribution... even to living expenses during the undergrad years? Many parents (who can afford it) will gladly and willingly pay for their child's college education and an even bigger proportion will help out with living expenses.

 

[chillbrolol]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I really appreciate the advice. In response to some of the points made:

1) I am not a resident of either PA or MA. I'm from the midwest.

2) I believe that the requirement on the new MCAT is a 40 out of 60 at BU. I presume that these programs require students to take the MCAT to ensure that they are prepared for the rigors of medical school.

3) I was wondering if there is a higher chance of matching at Harvard affiliated residency programs or programs in the Boston area by going to BU.

4) Is there a difference in the academic environment at Pass/Fail medical schools vs. those that are Honors/Pass/Fail?

5) Will I be at a disadvantage at residency interviews if I graduate from the 6 year program? (i.e. Questions about maturity?)

 

[LovelyBRass]

3) I was wondering if there is a higher chance of matching at Harvard affiliated residency programs or programs in the Boston area by going to BU.

Yes, but it won't in any way be handed to you and will be harder if you have a piss-poor resume (better get working on that research and saving the world).

4) Is there a difference in the academic environment at Pass/Fail medical schools vs. those that are Honors/Pass/Fail?

No. Well, maybe but it doesn't matter - no one has experience with both and we all graduate just fine.

 

[fpayqafa]

I'm leaning BU right now without knowing the cost for either program.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

I believe that the requirement on the new MCAT is a 40

read only this part of the sentence, had a heart attack

 

[riddler]

read only this part of the sentence, had a heart attack

😛 finish reading. It's 40 out of 60 for the new MCAT, not on the current MCAT. I don't know what that corresponds to, but it's certainly not a "40" the way you're thinking of it.

 

[235009]

😛 finish reading. It's 40 out of 60 for the new MCAT, not on the current MCAT. I don't know what that corresponds to, but it's certainly not a "40" the way you're thinking of it.

well since it's 4 sections it would be a 10 in each section and basically equivalent to a 30/45

 

[UrbanRiver]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I really appreciate the advice. In response to some of the points made:

4) Is there a difference in the academic environment at Pass/Fail medical schools vs. those that are Honors/Pass/Fail?

5) Will I be at a disadvantage at residency interviews if I graduate from the 6 year program? (i.e. Questions about maturity?)

Take my answer with a grain of salt since I'm only starting med school this august.
I would say... the two grading systems shouldn't differ too much. Pre-clinical grades I hear are not important. But you should check if your school does internal rankings and AOA.. that might just add additional pressure for you..

As for a question of maturity, I'm sure some program directors (and your classmates) might question your maturity at first... especially being that the average age of entering med school now is like 25 years old.. so you'll be applying to residencies with 29-year-olds by the time you're 25. and if you wanna go into surgery.. they might wonder if patients undergoing surgery will trust a resident that young.

but you might impress them if you come across in your essays, LORs, and interviews as being really mature.. it's all in the way you write, talk, and present yourself. if you really do well in your grades and do stellar research, etc. you might even come across as a really smart kid that will go places and is worth investing in .. there are a lottt of older people that are more immature than you are.. if you are humble about it, it should be okay. just, if you end up doing the BS/MD... make sure to take the freedom and security to do creative things, take interesting classes, go to a third world country, things that will grow you..

 

[UrbanRiver]

But seriously, squeezing all of your education into such a short amount of time - it makes me shudder. There's a reason people say to take time off after undergrad rather than running straight to medical school. It sounds really nice now but I'm telling you, nothing beats having some time to grow into your own person before you embark on something as rigorous as a medical education. You just can't compete in terms of life experience and maturity (which spills over into how well you handle your work load too!) with people who took the circuitous route.

This is my concern as well. But if you look at it another way, BS/MD gives you that security so that you don't have to stress about grades and do unnecessary EC's just so you can go to med school. Since you already have a spot in med school, you can use your undergrad years to do more interesting things.. like join clubs you really like, go on trips, take interesting classes... having fun while ur pre-med friends are all stressed out. Keeping a 3.2 GPA is pretty easy.

but yeah, i reiterate what others advise .. if you do this combined program, go BU. #30 is a far way up than #64 really. it'll give you an edge at more competitive residencies.

 

[LovelyBRass]

This is my concern as well. But if you look at it another way, BS/MD gives you that security so that you don't have to stress about grades and do unnecessary EC's just so you can go to med school. Since you already have a spot in med school, you can use your undergrad years to do more interesting things.. like join clubs you really like, go on trips, take interesting classes... having fun while ur pre-med friends are all stressed out. Keeping a 3.2 GPA is pretty easy.

but yeah, i reiterate what others advise .. if you do this combined program, go BU. #30 is a far way up than #64 really. it'll give you an edge at more competitive residencies.

so if anything, your grades matter that much more. if your grades are ok as a traditional premed, u can make up for them in other areas (and if u can't keep up ur gpa, whatevs u find something else to do). as a bs/md, grades mean everything and keeping ur gpa up is incredibly stressful because of how much you have riding on it. i assure you these programs are not senior year x 3 years where you are care-free and taking trips you can't afford. in addition, it's much easier to get caught up in grades and forget about building ur resume because, well, you don't really need to! and that really hurts in the future

as to the taking interesting classes point - there is very very minimal time to take electives. like almost non-existent (just google their schedules). you're squeezed into taking everything you need to to complete your BS degree (which is often a BS degree but I digress [well ok i'm thinking of nyit-com which offers a BS in life sciences to its combined grads, i mean, come on]) so again, it's not as free and open as you think/hope

edit: tsk tsk at saying "unnecessary EC's"

 

[UrbanRiver]

so if anything, your grades matter that much more. if your grades are ok as a traditional premed, u can make up for them in other areas (and if u can't keep up ur gpa, whatevs u find something else to do). as a bs/md, grades mean everything and keeping ur gpa up is incredibly stressful because of how much you have riding on it. i assure you these programs are not senior year x 3 years where you are care-free and taking trips you can't afford. in addition, it's much easier to get caught up in grades and forget about building ur resume because, well, you don't really need to! and that really hurts in the future

as to the taking interesting classes point - there is very very minimal time to take electives. like almost non-existent (just google their schedules). you're squeezed into taking everything you need to to complete your BS degree (which is often a BS degree but I digress [well ok i'm thinking of nyit-com which offers a BS in life sciences to its combined grads, i mean, come on]) so again, it's not as free and open as you think/hope

edit: tsk tsk at saying "unnecessary EC's"

By unnecessary ECs, I mean you can choose activities you really want to get into as opposed to choosing only based on what med schools want. Tsk tsk at your condescending attitude.

Anyway, OP, the above person makes a good point. So I'd urge you to consider them as well. Good luck and congrats again!

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