CHOOSE YOUR OWWN IV - Game Thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
The handling of the wagons feels good about a wolf on the board tbh.

Day 1 Yeet Tally
beans () -
Zenge (6) - shorty, Spurs, apop, alissa, PSV, genny
apop () -
shorty () -
Barks () -
samac (1) - kitz
CG (5) - beans, samac, Clem, fruit, Dubz
SAR () -
fruit () -
Spurs (2) - Barks, rae
Dubz (1) - CG
rae (1) - Zenge

16/17
yeet close in ~20 minutes
Missing: SAR
samac, this was the vote count when you said this--are you saying that it feels like there was a pack saving Zenge? Or are you including me, dubz, and rae in this discussion? Or do you no longer feel like the activity felt like there was a wolf on the board
 
None of these are ordered, I'm just going down the roster

Villagey:
Clem, genny, kitz, samac, PSV

Town leans:
fruit, alissa, maybe Zenge

Totally undecided/need to review more:
Barky, beans

POE:
Dubz, apop, Spurs
How did you go from Zenge being your vote at 8:58p to leaning town? If anything, that vote flip at the end looks SUPER sus to me.
 
How did you go from Zenge being your vote at 8:58p to leaning town? If anything, that vote flip at the end looks SUPER sus to me.
See below:
But actually:
So here's the thing that made me really second guess enough to eventually pull my vote off Zenge.

Zenge is a good team player. If Zenge is scum - with partners - he's not going to just go down without a fight like that, and just shrug and go "people will do what they'll do," and just let it happen. In contrast, I've seen village!Zenge do EXACTLY that, eerily similar. Is it possible that he could replicate that specifically to make me spiral? Sure, maybe. But do I think Zenge would remember his exact reaction in a game from 4 years ago that sent me off the deep end and do exactly that if he's actually scumming here and has other people depending on him? I'm less sure about that.

I'm not saying that I'm village reading him now after I wolf read him all day, but the huge risk it would be for a scum role to do that gambit on the slim chance that it worked ... I just don't see that as being super likely.

I think a lot is within his scum range, but I also feel like his behavior at vote close yesterday was town 9 times out of 10, so I'm more willing to go with the vibe of it being either null or slightly towny to do the math.
Zenge's behavior in response to that wagon and particularly within the last hour of EOD was eerily similar to CYO II. Like, almost exactly the same, which is why I panicked so hard about it and why it got profoundly worse in that last hour. It was deja vu, and I just don't see many worlds where that was an intentional thing planned out by a scum!Zenge to mess with me, specifically, especially when the wagon was pretty substantial even into the last hour and the risk would have been very high. But I have seen town!Zenge go down exactly that way.
 
also i accept i made a bad call with the vote in retrospect, but i’m not going to reject the reasons why i voted that way
 
because self prez matters and i had no idea of activity considerations that close to day close

i’m sorry i erred but don’t fault me without looking at the context
 
I didn’t love how Zenge was acting when he was on the chopping block. Maybe I got too used to the Janet begging.
I am less concerned with Zenge's behavior, which was more or less fine (though lol Janet begging), but more concerned with the flash flip of the wagon at the last minute
 
Do we think that there's exactly 3 scum who all claimed vanillager for aff? 🤔
No I wouldn’t assume all scum claimed vanillager for aff.

There’s a 5% chance everyone who did was being honest.

Also it’s 4 people who claimed it, not 3.

Kitzsu’s claim is that the actual role is fruit vendor, and vanillager was the aff pick. That got a bit lost in translation
 
No I wouldn’t assume all scum claimed vanillager for aff.

There’s a 5% chance everyone who did was being honest.

Also it’s 4 people who claimed it, not 3.

Kitzsu’s claim is that the actual role is fruit vendor, and vanillager was the aff pick. That got a bit lost in translation
Ah I missed that one ty
 
I'll post some legacy reads a little closer to night end.
I agree that something weird was going on with the wagons last night in general - genny and fruit flash switching actually doesn't concern me too too much for the moment bc I have seen them both do that before. But there's still something fishy about the whole situation.
 
I'll post some legacy reads a little closer to night end.
I agree that something weird was going on with the wagons last night in general - genny and fruit flash switching actually doesn't concern me too too much for the moment bc I have seen them both do that before. But there's still something fishy about the whole situation.
do you think you have a high chance of being NK'd?
 
do you think you have a high chance of being NK'd?
TBH, I don't know. I'm not being townread across the board but those who are townreading me are v convinced I'm village. I'd rather be safe than sorry - if I do get killed and didn't leave anything behind to try and help village I'd be really frustrated with myself.
 
See below:



Zenge's behavior in response to that wagon and particularly within the last hour of EOD was eerily similar to CYO II. Like, almost exactly the same, which is why I panicked so hard about it and why it got profoundly worse in that last hour. It was deja vu, and I just don't see many worlds where that was an intentional thing planned out by a scum!Zenge to mess with me, specifically, especially when the wagon was pretty substantial even into the last hour and the risk would have been very high. But I have seen town!Zenge go down exactly that way.
Maybe I'm debating semantics again, but I was just surprised you went from going from voting on him to him moving completely outside your POE. But maybe the behavior was enough for you to feel really confident he's village now?

Regardless, I get the reason for pulling the vote.
also i accept i made a bad call with the vote in retrospect, but i’m not going to reject the reasons why i voted that way
I'm less troubled with the change in vote and moreso with the timing.
i find it odd that you find that odd given that i've done similar in previous games.
You've done similar meaning voting at 8:59, or pulling a vote and non-voting?

Like, I'm not questioning that you've done this before (also not gonna go independently verify), but there was an AWFUL lot of people having a last second change of heart all about the same player for me to accept that there wasn't some agenda behind the change.
 
Maybe I'm debating semantics again, but I was just surprised you went from going from voting on him to him moving completely outside your POE. But maybe the behavior was enough for you to feel really confident he's village now?

Regardless, I get the reason for pulling the vote.

I'm less troubled with the change in vote and moreso with the timing.

You've done similar meaning voting at 8:59, or pulling a vote and non-voting?

Like, I'm not questioning that you've done this before (also not gonna go independently verify), but there was an AWFUL lot of people having a last second change of heart all about the same player for me to accept that there wasn't some agenda behind the change.
What agenda do you think the swaps were operating with?

I personally feel like I see last minute switches from scum far less often than from villagers trying not to make incorrect choices. Not that it doesn't happen, just curious about the line of thinking/what you think the motive would be.
 
Alright, unless there is a scum faction that thinks I'm other-scum, I think it's very unlikely I need to leave a legacy tonight. Nevertheless, it appears I have made giving them part of my MO, so here are my thoughts.

Village lean (note I'm realizing that I'm using "I liked their line of questioning" a lot, so that is probably a verbose way of saying "vibes")
@Clem J --as I previously said, I thought his snap-reading players early in the day yesterday felt natural and like v!Clem
@alissa14 --seems very engaged in questioning from an earnest perspective of meeting and understanding new players. Nothing has felt off.
@apoptosis09 --personally I think they were actively trying to change playstyle to not get auto-scum-read again, and playing different seemed to feel off to other players. I've never seen w!apop but this felt like a phenotype of village that could exist.
@potentialsheltervet --also generally like the lines of questioning, felt similar to previous V!PSV.
@supershorty --questioning also seemed very genuine, worked overdrive to track down old reads and compare to current. I don't put anything past such an experienced player, but it would be an awful lot of work to put in to create a smokescreen for a scum player.
@beans2020 --also feels like a nice, relaxed line of questioning. I still am not sure what @_rae_ meant by "the beans thing"

Neutral:
@SARdoghandler --more of a null than anything for now
@genny --I had in my village lean, but as noted above the flash flip at the end deserves scrutiny
@WildZoo --I'll be honest... I've skipped most of their posts in order to catch up in a reasonable timeframe. Another player where I feel like there is a wide range of play styles that could fit either scum or village. Will just have to watch
@_rae_ --I went back and forth on putting her here or in POE, and I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that yesterday was just a very busy day. Picking up the pieces after the fact, I don't really disagree with her reads that much, though I think she got flack for limited reasoning.
@samac --I also went back and forth on putting her here or in POE, and landed on I think yesterday was super busy so I can't really get a solid read yet. Something felt off, but that can happen when someone is busy. But I'm watching.

POE:
@kitzsuna --I do not think she was derpcleared, and I don't like that her reads have basically been high volume players and players who suss'd her first.
@Zenge142 --Because he tickled my nose at the beginning of the day in a way that led to me voting for him, and nothing changed my opinion.
@Barkley13 --Don't like that they literally never gave a reason for their vote yesterday. I know we did a lot of ****posting, but that isn't an unreasonable bar to expect someone who is village to clear.
@fruitsalad --I don't think the voting noise at the beginning of the day was necessarily benign, and even beyond the 8:59p vote, the voting noise in the 8pm hour I'm not sure is benign
 
Okie dokie artichokies here we go

Starting off with a fruit votes analysis:

- Monday, 9:04 pm, yeet beans
- Monday, 9:14 pm, yeet barky
- Monday, 9:17 pm, yeet CG
- Monday, 9:24 pm, yeet SAR
- Monday, 9:23 pm, yeet CG
- Monday, 9:28 pm, yeet pop
- Tuesday, 11:05 am, yeet beans
- Tuesday, 2:17 pm, yeet barky
- Tuesday, 7:59 pm, yeet CG
- Tuesday, 8:06 pm, yeet rae
- Tuesday, 8:12 pm, yeet spurs
- Tuesday, 8:26 pm, yeet CG
- Tuesday, 8:30 pm, yeet zenge
- Tuesday, 8:38 pm, yeet CG
- Tuesday, 8:50 pm, yeet spurs
- Tuesday, 8:55 pm, yeet rae
- Tuesday, 8:59 pm, yeet CG

tldr for dubs
17 votes total, 6 on CG, 2 on me, 2 on spurs

Fruit stuck to their most commonly voted, but I feel a bit of w!fruit flailing within votes. I also feel like w!fruit doubles down on misyeets, especially when they're part of it. What I can't reconcile is the CG, spurs, me, CG tailspin fruit went into at the end of the day. Fruit also seemed to push me very briefly (which fully tracks, I was hella absent Monday/Tuesday which I apologize for), but ended up back on CG. I currently don't feel good about fruits I don't think, which sucks because I meant it when I said they were my strongest village read before. Yes I've seen fruit change their vote at the final second, but something about that circle of votes feels wrong.

ETA to fix my spoilers and dumb tldr emoji
 
What agenda do you think the swaps were operating with?

I personally feel like I see last minute switches from scum far less often than from villagers trying not to make incorrect choices. Not that it doesn't happen, just curious about the line of thinking/what you think the motive would be.
I don't know, tbh. The first-order idea is obviously that fruits and genny could be saving a packmate in Zenge, but that seems too obvious (or maybe it's so obvious that they think we would just discard it out of hand). But when I see multiple votes all change in the same direction at the last second, it makes me feel like at least one of those votes was done for non-genuine reasons.

But getting back to what I was saying about @fruitsalad in particular, there is something here that just feels a little more chaotic and intended to mislead than usual. He voted at 7:59, 8:06, 8:13, 8:26, 8:30, 8:38, 8:50, 8:55, and 8:59 last night, across 4 different players. I could maybe understand that if he firmly disliked both of the wagons of CG/Zenge and was focused on trying to build a wagon on @_rae_ or me, but he also voted on both wagons including CG 4 times. Yes, I suppose this could be fruits being fruits, but I feel like fruits has now played enough that he could very easily replicate his "normal" village playstyle, so I'm not going to just say "well fruits is voting all over the place, this must be v!fruits." While I can understand the stated rationale for not wanting a tie at the end, all of the other noise is not inherently village-y to me.
 
Fruit stuck to their most commonly voted, but I feel a bit of w!fruit flailing within votes. I also feel like w!fruit doubles down on misyeets, especially when they're part of it. What I can't reconcile is the CG, spurs, me, CG tailspin fruit went into at the end of the day. Fruit also seemed to push me very briefly (which fully tracks, I was hella absent Monday/Tuesday which I apologize for), but ended up back on CG. I currently don't feel good about fruits I don't think, which sucks because I meant it when I said they were my strongest village read before. Yes I've seen fruit change their vote at the final second, but something about that circle of votes feels wrong.
lol jinx. I'm glad I wasn't the only one with this thought process
 
Okie dokie artichokies here we go

Starting off with a fruit votes analysis:

- Monday, 9:04 pm, yeet beans
- Monday, 9:14 pm, yeet barky
- Monday, 9:17 pm, yeet CG
- Monday, 9:24 pm, yeet SAR
- Monday, 9:23 pm, yeet CG
- Monday, 9:28 pm, yeet pop
- Tuesday, 11:05 am, yeet beans
- Tuesday, 2:17 pm, yeet barky
- Tuesday, 7:59 pm, yeet CG
- Tuesday, 8:06 pm, yeet rae
- Tuesday, 8:12 pm, yeet spurs
- Tuesday, 8:26 pm, yeet CG
- Tuesday, 8:30 pm, yeet zenge
- Tuesday, 8:38 pm, yeet CG
- Tuesday, 8:50 pm, yeet spurs
- Tuesday, 8:55 pm, yeet rae
- Tuesday, 8:59 pm, yeet CG

tldr for dubs
17 votes total, 6 on CG, 2 on me, 2 on spurs

Fruit stuck to their most commonly voted, but I feel a bit of w!fruit flailing within votes. I also feel like w!fruit doubles down on misyeets, especially when they're part of it. What I can't reconcile is the CG, spurs, me, CG tailspin fruit went into at the end of the day. Fruit also seemed to push me very briefly (which fully tracks, I was hella absent Monday/Tuesday which I apologize for), but ended up back on CG. I currently don't feel good about fruits I don't think, which sucks because I meant it when I said they were my strongest village read before. Yes I've seen fruit change their vote at the final second, but something about that circle of votes feels wrong.

ETA to fix my spoilers and dumb tldr emoji
the barky votes in there are interesting. especially since barky has not been super active on thread (relatively speaking compared to other players). how do you feel about a potential fruit/barky pack?
 
Continuing on with our own Mr. Spurs

Truly confused in the beginning of the game that I don't think could be manufactured (what role was affiliation, CG having Cop/Lover as one role).

Genuinely this is stupid as hell, but spurs is trying to hard to be chill. Calling zenge "ya fat dink" (Good Place holdover), using ofc, smh,

This too. This feels too emphasis-y in a way I don't like at all. It sets a precedent for how we think spurs is going to go, but allows spurs to fade into the shadows if he so wishes.
So, since I'm just going on vibes anyways I decided to just put down a vote on the first sus thing I saw. I may move once, maaaaaybe twice tomorrow, but I'll almost certainly stay where I am for the night

This statement also bothers me and I can't put my finger on why (it was below Spurs one and only vote for the day after unyeeting CG due to role confusion):
He really is trying hard to drag other honest working folks down
Also seems to be following thread on where he reads fruits. Strongly read fruit as village previously, seemingly jumped on fruit as being sus this morning since sending CG over puts fruits in a bad position. I'm also sus reading fruits for the moment and looking at them, but spurs feels regurgitated in a way I don't like.

This at 8:32 am
This wins me no village cred to be the third person, but I agree fruits being village is the one read I feel at least somewhat strongly (certainly not a lock).
Then this at 9:06 am
I'm gonna slightly back off on this, because going back to re-read the thread open... the pattern of voting is off for fruits.

I simply don't like this as an answer. If my reads list was weak, this is flaccid:
Just felt a little easy to throw shade literally only on players that voted for them, and then defend fruits.
Spurs also MEGA jumped on beans for the me/kitzs thing. Actually, a lot of people did, which I find interesting. I think beans was offering up a thought and while I admit I tend to overexploit which tends to look like "the lady doth protest too much" it felt convenient here.

tldr, I stand by that I'm not liking spurs vibes at all. Strongly in my POE.
 
the barky votes in there are interesting. especially since barky has not been super active on thread (relatively speaking compared to other players). how do you feel about a potential fruit/barky pack?
I haven't looked at barky yet, but gut punch reaction says it's possible.
 
Let's go look at Barks

Wow one page this will be fast.

So barks and fruits? Unsure. Barks was not reading fruit which is neither pairing/unpairing, but did differ from fruit who at one point claimed village Alissa pretty hard whereas barks claimed sussing Alissa around midday yesterday.

Yeeted spurs at 12:49 pm, did say they did not think they were going to catch up at that time.

Fruit did not like Barks' response to PSV saying that CGs claim of cop/lover would be a wild lie.

To me, barks currently looks like someone who was hopelessly behind (I know the feeling) and was not vibing with the CG wagon. I do not think this is pairing or unpairing to Fruits, but I currently don't have strong sus feelings on barks. No tdlr, dubz can read a paragraph I know she can!
 
For those who have played with barks before - is what we've seen so far on par for them? Are they typically a lower poster?
Yes I would say she's typically on the lower end, activity level NAI for her. Just depends on her schedule.
 
Let's go look at Barks

Wow one page this will be fast.

So barks and fruits? Unsure. Barks was not reading fruit which is neither pairing/unpairing, but did differ from fruit who at one point claimed village Alissa pretty hard whereas barks claimed sussing Alissa around midday yesterday.

Yeeted spurs at 12:49 pm, did say they did not think they were going to catch up at that time.

Fruit did not like Barks' response to PSV saying that CGs claim of cop/lover would be a wild lie.

To me, barks currently looks like someone who was hopelessly behind (I know the feeling) and was not vibing with the CG wagon. I do not think this is pairing or unpairing to Fruits, but I currently don't have strong sus feelings on barks. No tdlr, dubz can read a paragraph I know she can!
barks always scum reads me so I dont find this AI for FWIW
 
Found this sticker at a corporate table event, never felt so seen

1000011539.jpg
 
See below:



Zenge's behavior in response to that wagon and particularly within the last hour of EOD was eerily similar to CYO II. Like, almost exactly the same, which is why I panicked so hard about it and why it got profoundly worse in that last hour. It was deja vu, and I just don't see many worlds where that was an intentional thing planned out by a scum!Zenge to mess with me, specifically, especially when the wagon was pretty substantial even into the last hour and the risk would have been very high. But I have seen town!Zenge go down exactly that way.
I think I can be comfortable with shorty’s zenge read… I’m 50/50 with reading zenge
 
Uh oh have fun with my post about you then :happy:
Well at least I'm here to respond! I disagree with your final assessment, but I can mostly understand how you arrived there.

A few minor points that I'd appreciate if you could respond to.
Genuinely this is stupid as hell, but spurs is trying to hard to be chill. Calling zenge "ya fat dink" (Good Place holdover), using ofc, smh,
Steve Buscemi Youth GIF

This too. This feels too emphasis-y in a way I don't like at all. It sets a precedent for how we think spurs is going to go, but allows spurs to fade into the shadows if he so wishes.
I disagree with your assessment. I think across all my games, I tend to do my best to not waffle, and I hate changing my vote more than a couple of times in a cycle. I also hate holstering votes until the end of the day and would much rather have some sense of where people are leaning early on to be able to talk through things. This would not be AI, IMO.
Also seems to be following thread on where he reads fruits. Strongly read fruit as village previously, seemingly jumped on fruit as being sus this morning since sending CG over puts fruits in a bad position. I'm also sus reading fruits for the moment and looking at them, but spurs feels regurgitated in a way I don't like.

This at 8:32 am

Then this at 9:06 am
So what would be my agenda for initially village reading fruits, and then on my own backtracking unprompted?
I simply don't like this as an answer. If my reads list was weak, this is flaccid:
Would you have preferred I said "vibes?" Or how about "I simply don't like their answers?"
Spurs also MEGA jumped on beans for the me/kitzs thing. Actually, a lot of people did, which I find interesting. I think beans was offering up a thought and while I admit I tend to overexploit which tends to look like "the lady doth protest too much" it felt convenient here.
I truly still have no idea what you're talking about here. Could you please point me in the direction of the post in question?
 
Top