I'm curious about the beans votes. I know shorty iso'd her (see i read sometimes!) And I think fruits gave some detail but Im just not seeing the tonal differences others are i guess? I think the one time beans wolfed we spotted it quickly and this doesnt feel like that.
I think I just have to look back over my village reads and leans and make sure I haven't cleared people for stuff that could be other-factionhunting vs stuff that actually would only make sense for village to do.
Because villagers should still be interested in trying not to misyeet villagers, vs scum that can replicate scumhunting but would still also not care as much about the whole misyeet thing, outside of trying not to look bad.
I think this post comes from a towny mindset. I don't think the middle paragraph, in particular, is necessarily something that someone who was scum hunting other scum would think of. But someone who is town and trying to figure out a way to sift out other town from scum scum-hunting would.
But also, a not-insignificant part of my having her in my POE before was because I felt like she and I were seeing the game in a much more diametrically opposed way than it turned out we really were. That wouldn't be a way I'd come to a read on someone I haven't played with much - for example, kitz and I are clearly seeing this game very differently, and I don't have her in my POE, but because of the history that I have with Dubz, that was significant to me. Until I looked back and it actually wasn't that different lol. (so maybe it turns out that samac can't read and I can't retain the information I do read without maintaining a spreadsheet)
I dont like their strong push (or what it seems to be to me) to PSV who is one of my stronger town reads. And i feel like they started a snowball that shorty is also participating in that will end with PSV being misyeeted
I feel like you're never going to like my playstyle because you seem to think that my asking people questions is equivalent to wagoning them, but I ask a lot of questions of everyone in order to sort them
I feel like you're never going to like my playstyle because you seem to think that my asking people questions is equivalent to wagoning them, but I ask a lot of questions of everyone in order to sort them
I feel like you're never going to like my playstyle because you seem to think that my asking people questions is equivalent to wagoning them, but I ask a lot of questions of everyone in order to sort them
Hopefully when I get around to ISOing PSV later, it will actually help me sort her because god knows real-timing didn't and I feel like that's usually more useful generally so bummer.
Is there any way that you could maybe explain this more?
So like - say that from my perspective, I disagree (I don't know if I actually do, because my frustration at the results of trying to engage with her is preventing me from really coming to much of a conclusion there). What can you show me of hers that would illustrate your perspective? Were there any posts in particular?
I need people who have played with me before to please note that I AM TRYING REALLY HARD to not relentlessly go after something the way I did previously, even if I'm being persistent, because IT IS HARD FOR ME NOT TO AND I AM GENUINELY TRYING TO PLAY MORE GENTLY THAN I USED TO
Is there any way that you could maybe explain this more?
So like - say that from my perspective, I disagree (I don't know if I actually do, because my frustration at the results of trying to engage with her is preventing me from really coming to much of a conclusion there). What can you show me of hers that would illustrate your perspective? Were there any posts in particular?
I'm curious about the beans votes. I know shorty iso'd her (see i read sometimes!) And I think fruits gave some detail but Im just not seeing the tonal differences others are i guess? I think the one time beans wolfed we spotted it quickly and this doesnt feel like that.
I need people who have played with me before to please note that I AM TRYING REALLY HARD to not relentlessly go after something the way I did previously, even if I'm being persistent, because IT IS HARD FOR ME NOT TO AND I AM GENUINELY TRYING TO PLAY MORE GENTLY THAN I USED TO
the tl;dr of this spoiler, for @WildZoo, is that I feel I am deserving of a headpat tbqh, but my arms are long enough for me to pat my own head so don't worry about it if no one agrees
beans is one of the players who I feel like I really don't have a read on, and last night, a few of her comments didn't sit right with me, so despite saying that I wasn't going to do any ISOs this game (which I already have gone against by planning to ISO PSV later)... I did one lol.
tl;dr: I don't feel that there are any unpairing interactions here. If anything, I see beans make an offhand comment that Spurs was appealing because she believes he would choose scum, but that's hardly an unpairing interaction in my world, especially when she goes on to village lean him after that. She starts expressing more doubt of him later on, but it's after other people had expressed discomfort there, like me, Dubz, and others. I'm not going to say that can only be paired and sensing a change in the tide, because that would be silly - she is a newer player and it's possible that she started to get swayed by the opinions of others and came around to a more correct vibe on him. However, that's not the vibe that I have in the context of her being quick to reply to fruit and say that there are multiple clearly unpairing interactions. Additionally, I don't feel that her progressions on other players (namely samac and Zenge) are very natural, and I'm not keen on some of the things surrounding her CG vote.
I don't think this post is AI. However, it's important for later, so I pulled it.
I know that fruit felt that a series of posts starting with this one was backtracking in a sus way, and I'm not sure that I agree - I think that walking her initial sus of kitz and rae back feels okayish in the context of the rest of the thread.
I'm not sure that mentioning Spurs here feels organic, but this post mentions almost everyone that she had on her initial "willing to vote within this group" post (excluding fruit), so if I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, she was working through that. If I'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt, it feels awkward and clunky to throw him in the way she did.
This feels pretty organic to me, I think.
I pulled this comment because I wanted to get on a soapbox, but it's not actually relevant to the rest of the ISO lmao
I'm not going to wolf read this comment necessarily, because it's phrased differently than what I'm about to soapbox about, but since it is a feeling that I hold strongly, I'm just going to put it out there for the record that I always think that dismissing D1 as random/a crapshoot/unlikely to get a wolf is wolfy. D1 has the purest interactions you're going to get, simply due to gamestate, and I think it's one of the most important days to look at retrospectively.
So ... there is NOTHING in this ISO prior to this post that actually says anything about why beans thought this. Unfortunately, I'd already fallen off being able to keep up with the vote tally in my spreadsheet - what I want to do is look at this and see how many people were already voting CG and if this feels bandwagony. In fact, throughout this entire ISO, other than the first comment about "would choose scum," there's very minimal content on CG to give any insight into the read there - and then she goes on later to say that she feels she's an easy misyeet, but... there's really no analysis at all.
I don't really like this hedginess and leaving the door open to backtrack these reads later if necessary.
Again, there is NOTHING to justify this statement. If this were a normal setup, I would say that this had me worried about TMI - however, that doesn't really apply the same way in this game because the scum also don't know someone is village, they just know someone isn't the same faction. I'm more bothered by the total lack of attention to CG in the rest of her ISO than I am by this comment made in this specific game. I'm particularly bothered by it because she stayed there, leading the wagon (disclaimer: because I don't have my spreadsheet up to date, I am not sure she actually was the one to start the wagon, though I know she wasn't the first person who ever voted CG yesterday because fruit did that before I fell off with tallying).
The timing of this is squidgy. I want to say that I can see it being town realizing that they're wrong - however, I don't think that Good Place is a good example because in early game, Spurs was an inclusive 3p, and that's not going to play the same way. Now, that being said, I do recognize that the time Spurs wolfed, beans was also a wolf, and I think it's harder to look back at a game where you were wolfing WITH someone and apply a town perspective of their play to then be able to read and recognize scummy posts of theirs later.
Wow I hate how I phrased that, but I'm going to leave it, because if I'm doing ISOs this game, the people who haven't played with me before get to experience the full level of unhinge that they can be, which includes me writing my thoughts out and then being like wtf does that even say.
Attempted rephrase: because beans was wolfing with Spurs in the noob game, it may be more difficult for her to necessarily see scummy posts from him in this game and directly apply reasoning of "oh this was similar to what he did in the noob game, where he was scum" because she wasn't trying to solve him in the noob game. She knew what he was.
Anyway, that's the more charitable take on this comment, and I typed that all out but don't really believe in it much myself. I don't like how the comment feels.
I don't know why this feels a little off to me, I might be confbiasing myself at this point, but the "there's still time for it to take off" reads with a weird connotation to me.
I personally hate statements like this because they feel a little "omg look at how towny I am".
Okay, so a couple things here. The samac read doesn't really track with the comments that she was making about how she wasn't sure if samac could be in her wolf range - that whole mason debacle had already happened by the time she was saying stuff like that. Similarly, moving Zenge up to a townlean doesn't fit with what she was saying before about him, for similar reasons. I have no real issues with her neutrals category, other than I think the 3p comment about me specifically was a touch odd because when she was expressing reservations about other vets, it was just about scum, whereas with me, it was ONLY 3p. I don't know how closely she was following the thread, because it did come up that I like being 3p, but it wasn't heavily discussed, and so to me, it feels like that line is planted by someone else telling her that I like 3p. However, since my current inclination is to pair her with Spurs, that doesn't really track because he wouldn't know that either, neither of them have ever played with me, and in fact, much of this roster didn't play my one really notable 3p game (though I was also 3p of a different flavor in 10th Anni, Numbers, and Make Your Own, and 2 of those were by request lol). Also interesting is that fruit has plummeted in her reads when the last thing that she said about him was that he was village, and the justification for dropping him all the way to her POE was that he was defensive (personally, I thought fruit's posts read as frustrated town, especially when there have been multiple games now where he's stated he's trying to change up his play). And finally, the Spurs read just feels like she's going with the wind there. I don't feel there's a natural progression of that read.
I pulled this because it mentioned Spurs, but I don't really have any commentary to add. I just hate quotes with nothing after them, so here we are.
I don't think Spurs was under "a lot" of heat. I think multiple players had expressed discomfort with him, but that's not the same in my world as people contingency voting, for example. That being said, I did notice something Spurs was doing in this game that was also a way that I used to get to a scum read on Truenamer (who I have a godread on), and it WAS related to this. So I'm not saying it's a bad observation - I just don't know that I believe it's coming from a towny mindset.
I'm probably reading into this too much, because my instinct is to say that this is a little over the top, but that's me being uncharitable and I used to confbias myself by not being cognizant of things like that. So while I don't like it, I'm not going to factor it into my read ... much.
Yeah, I don't think that interaction is at all unpairing. I don't think anything in this ISO was unpairing. I actually think the opposite.
I need people who have played with me before to please note that I AM TRYING REALLY HARD to not relentlessly go after something the way I did previously, even if I'm being persistent, because IT IS HARD FOR ME NOT TO AND I AM GENUINELY TRYING TO PLAY MORE GENTLY THAN I USED TO
I don't think so. stoat started playing the year I did champs, I think, and I only played 6 games on SDN that year. Pretty sure she wasn't in any of them.
minivet sidecarred with me once, but never actually played a game.
I need people who have played with me before to please note that I AM TRYING REALLY HARD to not relentlessly go after something the way I did previously, even if I'm being persistent, because IT IS HARD FOR ME NOT TO AND I AM GENUINELY TRYING TO PLAY MORE GENTLY THAN I USED TO
Oh yeah.
A game with village Samac and shorty had to be insufferable back then. I am also actively a lot more chill because I once got told I felt unwelcoming and I don’t ever want to do that.
Yes, I sometimes got feedback when I was still playing regularly that I would push people hard enough to make it not fun. In a game that heavily contributed to my burning out and not playing anymore, some members of the wolf pack that game antagonized me for the majority of the game partially based on that assertion (PSV may dispute this, as she was part of that wolf pack, but was not someone who I felt was doing that). One of them went so far as to tell a noob group, who was playing with me for the first time, that I was specifically and personally mean as a particular affiliation, which really upset me because I was never intentionally mean regardless of aff, and I felt that was a really dirty lie to tell.
I am by nature a very intense personality and I do hyperfixate on things, and I've been trying not to do so in a way that makes it not-fun for anyone.
Edited to add a tl;dr for Dubz: shorty primarily stopped playing for a combination of reasons, including lack of self control leading to WW affecting my QOL, and burnout that was profoundly and as far as I can tell, irreversibly, worsened by the Literary game.
I don't think I can help you there!
