Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, NYU or Emory?

[alibai3ah]

Either way.

OP, good luck with your decision. Its one that many people would love to have the fortune to consider.

You have some darn good decisions to make yourself

Amazing EC's!

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[chicubsfan]

mayo. cheaper than emory and nyu (you can fly home with tuition savings!) and i'm sure you can still do residency in the northeast. hell, with a degree from mayo you will probably be able to do a residency anywhere!

 

[bamtuba]

You have some darn good decisions to make yourself

Amazing EC's!

Thanks. Life happens I guess...

 

[topsurgeon2010]

topsurgeon2010,

I'm obviously not unbiased about how awesome CCLCM is, but at the same time, I have no vested interest in convincing you to come here if you're thinking it's not for you. (And in fact, I would go so far as to recommend that you NOT come here if you know that this is not the right program for you.) That being said, I wanted to address something you said in your cons, because it's factually incorrect. Regardless of which school you end up choosing, you should at least have accurate info before you decide!


All I can say is that maybe the interview day explanation of the curriculum wasn't as clear as it could be, because this is not how our curriculum works.

First year, there are 20 hours of contact time per week. Of that twenty hours, eight hours are spent in seminars taught by faculty, four hours are spent either in physical diagnosis or clinic, one hour is spent in research seminar, one hour is spent in the humanities in medicine class, and six hours are spent in PBL. Thus, PBL is about 1/4 of the total curriculum, and not even half of the didactic part. Second year, the schedule is similar except that there are two afternoons of clinic/physical diagnosis per week instead of just one.

I suppose one could describe the PBL process like you did, but that's not really what it's like in practice. It's intended (and used) as a complement to the seminars, not as a replacement for them. Each week, there is a specific topic being covered. Both the PBL case and the seminars for that week are based on that topic. Thus, the PBL case is NOT the primary method for teaching that topic, and it's certainly not the only method.

The way the PBL groups work is ideally like a formalized study group. You and your group take a case, dissect it, choose topics that the group doesn't know enough about to assign as learning objectives, and present them briefly to your classmates. The facilitator's job is not to teach the group, but rather to guide the group to make sure that the students cover all of the material that is supposed to be covered. (Throughout the week, the facilitator has a list of all topics that the group is supposed to cover.) If the group is doing well, the facilitator won't have to say a word. If the group is getting off track, it is the facilitator's job to get them back on track.

Besides preparing the student-selected learning objective presentations for PBL, students also have required readings for the seminars that are selected by the faculty. At the end of the week, the students are given a list of all the topics that they should have covered that week in seminar and/or PBL. They also get homework (multiple choice questions and essays) based on the topics covered that week.

I hope this helps clarify the curriculum. You obviously have a difficult decision to make, and I would suggest that you go to the second looks if you can. That was a big part of what helped me decide where to go. Also, if you or any of the other accepted people have questions, feel free to PM me. Congrats and good luck next year!

oh wow i apologize...they should definitely try to make that more clear at the interview...everyone made it seem as though it was purely "PBL"-based...thanks for clearing that up..its truly an impressive place!!


i must say i am actually surprised at the overwhelming votes to Mayo...the rest seem to be tied..its going to be a tough decision..i feel bad holding onto all these schools so I promise I'll make a decision ASAP after getting my financial aid packages...plus Cleveland Clinic requires an answer by mid-April instead of May 15th since it starts in July, per AAMC rules

 

[Nerday Shortay]

I feel very grateful that I am even in this situation but I am having a very difficult time choosing a medical school to attend this fall. I am honestly really confused and could end up at any one of the schools above. Which one would you choose to attend since they're all similarly ranked? To give you some background info: im a 25 year old guy who wants to work hard and party hard in medical school. I know some of the reasons I mentioned below are VERY superficial but please let me know what you guys think are the pros and cons for each school. Its very refreshing and informative to hear other people's opinions. And just fyi things that matter to me, in no particular order:

• saving money
• prestige
• would like to do a competitive and prestigious residency program in the northeast (harvard, yale, cornell/columbia, NYU, Penn, etc)
• living in a nice city where there are things to do so I can de-stress from all the studying..during my limited free time on the weekend it would be nice to at least have the OPTION of going to bars, night clubs, take dance lessons, meet new people, etc etc.
• i would like to meet my significant other in medical school because I feel like the opportunities decrease as you get older
• being close to family (family just recently moved to northeast)

Mayo Medical School
Pros: half-tuition, cost of living is relatively cheap, its Mayo Clinic!!, very unique program, amazing resources and faculty, amazing facilities, they pay for you to do joint degrees at other schools which I am interested in, pass/fail, supposedely have one of the highest average USMLE scores in the nation

Cons: Its in rochester, minnesota which is really far from home and really cold with not much to do in terms of night life, small class size (~50 people), not associated with a university so not many college-aged students around, all of anatomy is taught in 6 weeks (crazy!!), my ex-girlfriend lives in rochester, minnesota (her dad is a prominent physician at mayo) and i don't ever want to see her again in my life

Cleveland Clinic at Case Western Reserve University (5 year program)
Pros: its free tuition, cost of living in cleveland is relatively cheap, no exams, no grades, its Cleveland Clinic!, amazing resources and faculty, amazing facilities, a lot of flexibility in schedule besides required attendance during 8am-1pm block, can do away rotation to do research at the NIH during 5th year, its associated with a university so college-aged students are around, amazing surgery program which is a field I want to consider but have not fully decided yet, its supposedly trying to break its affiliation with Case Western and link with Columbia or UPenn which would be interesting but unlikely, read:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/05/cleveland_clinic_considers_end.html
http://blog.cleveland.com/medical/2008/07/cleveland_clinic_columbia_univ.html

Cons: its cleveland (winters are the worst due to lake-effect), lebron will leave if he's smart, its a 5-year program and im getting old lol, very small class size (~30 people), students self-teach medicine to each other, basically NO lectures at all and faculty only act as facilitators they do NOT really teach, unique portfolio system that requires self-reflective essays, school starts in July, required attendance from 8am-1pm, strict professional dress code, its a new program that started 6 years ago so no real track record and probably havent finished tweaking the curriculum either, its seperate from the case western students but still get a degree from case western which is a great university but isnt recognizable to the average person


NYU
Pros: its in NYC!!!!, its associated with a university, one of the most recognizable university names in the world, Pass/Fail no internal ranking, close to family and relatives (i have A LOT of relatives in NYC), amazing teaching hospitals (bellevue and langone medical center which was ranked top-20 for best hospitals by US News), amazing international opportunities, its near the United Nations so might be able to get public-health related internships, dont think I'll be able to afford living in NYC ever again in my life, lebron might be coming to play with the NY Knicks hopefully along with wade and bosh lol

Cons: med school will be REALLY expensive and so will living in NYC and i come from a low-income background so will have to take out a lot of loans, while the institution as a whole is prestigious--the school of medicine is not as highly ranked or prestigious as the others but not a drastic difference, facilities are old and worn-out, exams every 2 weeks

Emory

Pros: highest ranked out of all the above schools but by like 3 spots which is negligible though its been ranked top-20 in recent years which none of the above have, attached to a university and its right on campus, located in Atlanta which is a great city, brand-new facilities (absolutely gorgeous new building with marble and granite lining: http://www.flickr.com/photos/donalrey/3529699263/, http://www.flickr.com/photos/donalrey/3529694321/in/photostream/), pass/fail curriculum, Grady Hospital will provide a lot of good training, a lot of international opportunities in public health (guaranteed admission into MPH program as a medical student, Centers for Disease Control is on the campus of Emory, Carter Center internships, Institute for Developing Nations, Emory has created a new Global Health Institute, etc etc), the university itself has cool faculty-members too (Dalai Lama, Jimmy Carter, Sulman Rushdie, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, etc etc), its improving A LOT in terms of marketing its name (I feel like it will eventually take the path of Stanford and WashU which were not well-known just a couple of decades ago)

Cons: will be expensive, name not as well-recognized as the other schools, not associated with a top-20 hospital unlike the above schools, i grew up in atlanta and would like to explore other cities but dont mind at all staying for another 4 years because its an amazing city and has amazing weather lol

Even though you probably cyber-hate me from my comments on the Harvard thread, I will give my two-cents on your situation. I have a lot of Mayo love, but I think people have already commented on Mayo here. As far as NYU goes, my brother-in-law went there for medical school and says it was terrible. He wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I know that is just one person's perspective, but I figured I'd offer it up. As some background on him, he is normal (I'd even say cool ;o) ), and he works/teaches at Yale SOM and Yale New Haven Hospital.

The only other comment would be to NOT pay a whole lot for med school, if you can avoid it. That's what every doctor I've spoken to has told me. They say residency is way more important (which I spoke about on the Harvard thread right before all the drama broke out), so take a good deal for med school. All your options are prestigious, so it's a win-win situation for you. Hope this is at least marginally helpful.
~Nerday

 

[Medgirl55]

I'd go with Mayo. 1/2 tuition scholarship + incredibly prestigious.

Cleveland - full scholarship is nice, but seems you don't like the learning style + mandatory professional dress everyday (fwiw I would hate that too). Also class size too small.

NYU - good school but not as prestigious as Mayo

Emory - I don't know anything about this school...

Your ex-girlfriend should have nothing to do with your decision. Even if you go to Mayo you will probably never see her. You can't base ur life decisions on that!

 

[topsurgeon2010]

Even though you probably cyber-hate me from my comments on the Harvard thread, I will give my two-cents on your situation. I have a lot of Mayo love, but I think people have already commented on Mayo here. As far as NYU goes, my brother-in-law went there for medical school and says it was terrible. He wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I know that is just one person's perspective, but I figured I'd offer it up. As some background on him, he is normal (I'd even say cool ;o) ), and he works/teaches at Yale SOM and Yale New Haven Hospital.

The only other comment would be to NOT pay a whole lot for med school, if you can avoid it. That's what every doctor I've spoken to has told me. They say residency is way more important (which I spoke about on the Harvard thread right before all the drama broke out), so take a good deal for med school. All your options are prestigious, so it's a win-win situation for you. Hope this is at least marginally helpful.
~Nerday

Haha nahhh I don't cyber-hate you. I purposely left your name out of my post because your posts don't come across as condescending but you've been getting enough love (both from SDN and medical schools..congrats by the way!) that I didn't want to explicitly include a disclaimer about you either..didnt want all that love and attention to get to your head ...

but thanks for the comments..who knows maybe we'll come across each other at Mayo

I'd go with Mayo. 1/2 tuition scholarship + incredibly prestigious.

Cleveland - full scholarship is nice, but seems you don't like the learning style + mandatory professional dress everyday (fwiw I would hate that too). Also class size too small.

NYU - good school but not as prestigious as Mayo

Emory - I don't know anything about this school...

Your ex-girlfriend should have nothing to do with your decision. Even if you go to Mayo you will probably never see her. You can't base ur life decisions on that!

thanks for the post..from what my ex has told me in the past, rochester is pretty small town with limited hang-out spots for people our age so I don't want to have to worry about running into her at any time during my 4 years..but I mean I obviously would not let my ex prevent me from going to a prestigious school although both her parents know me and they both are physicians at mayo..but yeah she would definitely not be the determining factor..but who knows this could be my chance to get back at her for cheating on me.. maybe I can get a few of my female classmates to be all over me as I walk by her in the club..nerday you down for this???...just kiddin they dont have clubs in rochester!

 

[jerew]

1. We'll go to the Twin Cities to hang out, so no problem there! I would probably make *frequent* trips, so come along! Plenty of places to crash in the cities too.

2. Are you going to the Mayo revist? Not many people are, but I'll definitely be there, so maybe I'll see you there?

3. I vote Mayo!

 

[Beignet87]

Haha nahhh I don't cyber-hate you. I purposely left your name out of my post because your posts don't come across as condescending but you've been getting enough love (both from SDN and medical schools..congrats by the way!) that I didn't want to explicitly include a disclaimer about you either..didnt want all that love and attention to get to your head ...

but thanks for the comments..who knows maybe we'll come across each other at Mayo



thanks for the post..from what my ex has told me in the past, rochester is pretty small town with limited hang-out spots for people our age so I don't want to have to worry about running into her at any time during my 4 years..but I mean I obviously would not let my ex prevent me from going to a prestigious school although both her parents know me and they both are physicians at mayo..but yeah she would definitely not be the determining factor..but who knows this could be my chance to get back at her for cheating on me.. maybe I can get a few of my female classmates to be all over me as I walk by her in the club..nerday you down for this???...just kiddin they dont have clubs in rochester!

Correction: There's exactly 1 club. Otherwise, it's a bar town.

 

[topsurgeon2010]

i came across this post from a few years back..

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4941034&postcount=32

"Just spend one winter in Rochester. If you aren't taking SSRIs by March, consider yourself lucky. Anyone who would willingly live four years in Rochester Minnesota is an IDIOT."

I don't know I found that statement to be really funny..i REALLY do hate winters..they're depressing..am going to have to toughen up before every vicious winter in Rochester I guess

 

[JasonE]

i came across this post from a few years back..

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4941034&postcount=32

"Just spend one winter in Rochester. If you aren't taking SSRIs by March, consider yourself lucky. Anyone who would willingly live four years in Rochester Minnesota is an IDIOT."

I don't know I found that statement to be really funny..i REALLY do hate winters..they're depressing..am going to have to toughen up before every vicious winter in Rochester I guess

i can honestly say from looking at their weather reports, its really another world up there. gets cold very early, the lows are INSANE (so much that you dont even go outside), and it takes longer to get warm again. i couldnt even imagine living there in the heart of winter going weeks without going outside. if you already hate winters, id strongly reconsider