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I might remove one of the ">"s between UVa and UAB (I think they're both quite good), but other than that I agree.
Official 2012-2013 Help Me Rank Megathread
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I might remove one of the ">"s between UVa and UAB (I think they're both quite good), but other than that I agree.
Looking at quality of program and cards match lists...not much distance between tiers to be fair
Michigan
UW = Yale = NW = UCLA (NW cards placement brings it up, UCLA placement mostly regional)
Cornell = Sinai = Mayo
NYU (madd solid cards list)
UCSD
Yeah, I know why. Because they are BOTH awesome programs.
Sorry to hear about your divorce, but you shouldn't let "reminders" screw you out of the programs you like best. Then the divorce "wins" . . .
(lots of super cute, sweet, and smart women in the twin cities)
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I mean ultimately you need to rank the way you like the programs, but I'm not so sure I'd have Wake, UVa, Kentucky, or Cinci so low . . . though the good news is, as long as you're an AMG with a pulse, you'll go where you want for endocrine, so it doesn't really matter that much.
I'd probably have them:
UAB
UVA
Wake
Kentucky
Cinci = UF = MUSC
rest
Oh yes, I lived there from the age of 19-28... I remember the women, especially running along the river in the spring! Damn near caused me to crash trying to watch them bouncing down the sidewalk...
I think when it comes down to it, I will likely do it in that order. I love the twin cities and want to go back at some point.
I would drop Yale down towards the end due to the average cards match list and lackluster cards program
👍
Basically agree.
Can say that Michigan, UCLA, NW, Sinai and NYU all have fantastic internal cards programs, arguably in that order. Yale's cards program is very strong clinically, but their chief is kind of off-putting. UW has one of the best echo training programs.
Don't know anything about UCSD.
Honestly, you can do well at any of these places. Minus UCSD, I saw residents from all of these programs on my cards interview days.
If you just rank by your gut, I think you'll be in great shape.
Above all I'm looking for a laid-back program with friendly staff/faculty and good resident camaraderie. Debating between hospitalist vs primary care (would like to go to a place where clinic time is protected). Flexible for location (as you can see).
1. OHSU
2. Iowa
3. UIC
4. Mayo
5. Virginia Mason
6. Michigan
7. Minnesota
8. Rush
Sound reasonable?
1. OHSU
2. Iowa
3. UIC
4. Mayo
5. Virginia Mason
6. Michigan
7. Minnesota
8. Rush
Sound reasonable?
Perfectly reasonable given your goals.
This is not what I heard about the program. What I was told that you are basically handed the Otto book "as whatever you need to learn is in that book" and you are supposed to train yourself - But I don't have first hand knowledge as I cancelled my cards interview there.
Looks legit.
This could very well be true.
When I visited a number of the fellows and Otto herself all emphasized the echo training.
UW has Seattle, a strong IM residency below it, Otto (plus or minus?), a lot of transplanted talent from UCLA, and the SCD-HeFT database among other things. I respect their program, but it was not for me.
The cards fellowship has its strengths (outcomes, clinical volume) and its weaknesses (the chief) but the quality of the fellowship match is pretty damn solid, comparable easily to NW/UW/Mich/UCLA (although I'd argue that quality of in-house match at all those places is higher than at Yale). Also the list on the applicant site is incomplete at best...long story. It's not BWH/MGH quality but not a bad place for cards placement by any means.
The past five years, off the top of my head...
Duke
Cedars-Sinai x2
Tufts x2
WashU x3
Columbia
BIDMC
NW
Stanford x2
CCF (sending fewer now - after three years in new haven Cleveland is simply not that attractive)
Sinai x2
UCLA
UCSF
UTSW x2
Scripps
Henry Ford
Mayo
Jefferson
Stony Brook
Brown x2
Yale x many (half short track)
I hear great things about UIC and OHSU from people there.
I would also argue that putting Yale above Cornell and Sinai, which have better lists and better internal programs, plus having the benefit of not being in New Haven, wouldn't be the wisest decision either.
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Eh, you guys are both wrong.
Not much difference between these three programs.
And who has the stronger internal cards programs is highly debatable.
I liked Sinai's program best of the three, but you could make a case for the other two. I'd also point out that while Sinai may have the best program of the three, the residency program is only sending one resident there. The rest are going to the Urban Community health program in Queens, which is not the same thing.
Bottom line, these programs will open the door for the applicant, but a lot of it is up to the applicant, not the program. 😀
I'm interested in cardiology. How is this rank list?
BIDMC
UW
Yale
OHSU
NYU
Dartmouth
Mayo
BU
Tufts
BIDMC
UW
Yale
OHSU
NYU
Dartmouth
Mayo
BU
Tufts
That looks good. Personally I would move Dartmouth down towards the end of the list, both because of location, and that the strength of their match isn't great. I'm sure the training is quite good, and the program is small enough that you will get adequate attention. But if you're interested in Cards, you might be committing yourself to 6-7 years to Hanover. I think Mayo would probably be in the top 3-4 in terms of match potential. but I can see why someone would rather liver in Portland or New York over Rochester, MN.
I also found Sinai's cardiology program to be significantly stronger than Yale's, and Cornell's was also a step up from Yale despite it being a smaller department. I think the Sinai cardiology programs are equivalent in training, but with noticeable differences between the two. I don't know if it's worthwhile to distinguish between the two programs in terms of caliber, although if we are, Yale has only sent residents to the Urban Community track as well and not the Investigator Track (at least since 2008 according to the sheets from the interview day). Just nitpicking of course. Yale's cardiology program was a major turn-off, they said and did some things on their interview day which were in essence a gross violation of match rules.
Interested in endo. Prefer west coast.
1. UCSF
2. UCSD
3. UCLA-Harbor
4. UCLA-Reagan
5. UCD
6. MGH
7. Vanderbilt
8. Baylor
1. UCSF
2. UCSD
3. UCLA-Harbor
4. UCLA-Reagan
5. UCD
6. MGH
7. Vanderbilt
8. Baylor
You can't prefer the Best Coast so much that you'd rank Davis over MGH and Vandy, can you?
And Harbor over Reagan is silly IMHO...but then, you're the one who interviewed, not me.
I'd personally drop Harbor and Davis to 7 and 6 respectively and bump MGH and Vandy up. Baylor is great and everything, but it's in Texas so that's a non-starter.
Great choices. I wonder if UCLA Reagan should be ranked above Harbor. I know you prefer the East Coast, but I would consider ranking MGH higher.
I would swap BID and UW
If this is a real list then I have to agree with gutonc.
UCSF
MGH
Vandy
UCLA
UCSD
Baylor
UCLA-Harbor
UCD
You could always come back to west coast for endo as long as you have a pulse.
Thanks--that's really helpful and I appreciate your thoughts. Is there any benefit to training at MGH with the west coast preference, especially for a non-competitive specialty?
Also, is Vandy considered "stronger" than UCLA/UCSD?
Hello all! Wish everyone happy holidays and a great new year!
Would love some insight regarding rank list. Basically I'd like to go to the best program possible, will applying for GI fellowship.
However, my wife and I both have relatives on the West Coast, so with that in mind, my two version ROL is as follows.
By reputation/GI fellowship:
Stanford
Mt Sinai
NYU vs UCSD
OHSU
Brown vs JHU-Bayview
U Maryland vs Jefferson
Cedars vs USC
By location (West Coast consideration):
Stanford/UCSD
Mt Sinai > NYU
UC Davis
OHSU
Cedars vs USC
...the rest...
Would love them input as discussion with wife non-fruitful among many things 😀
Thanks in advance, guys!
Would love some insight regarding rank list. Basically I'd like to go to the best program possible, will applying for GI fellowship.
However, my wife and I both have relatives on the West Coast, so with that in mind, my two version ROL is as follows.
By reputation/GI fellowship:
Stanford
Mt Sinai
NYU vs UCSD
OHSU
Brown vs JHU-Bayview
U Maryland vs Jefferson
Cedars vs USC
By location (West Coast consideration):
Stanford/UCSD
Mt Sinai > NYU
UC Davis
OHSU
Cedars vs USC
...the rest...
Would love them input as discussion with wife non-fruitful among many things 😀
Thanks in advance, guys!
How much did you actually like Vanderbilt? While I can easily understand putting off a move to the West Coast for a program like MGH, I don't know if going to Vanderbilt (even though it is a great program) will significantly help you find an endo fellowship in California (where being a regional candidate may help you). Endo is not very competitive, and I don't know if Vanderbilt has enough of a "wow- you went to Vanderbilt?!?" factor to live in a less desirable location for 3 years. UCSD and UCLA-Reagan are no brainers to me over Vandy as long as you liked those programs.
Actually, the yale list doesn't differentiate between the two tracks but we've sent people to both. The yale/sinai/cornell debate has been hashed out before - take a look if you want more info. Cornell has the stringer heme onc match, Sinai for GI and Yale for cards. Absent this year, I found Cornell's cards match in particular to be underwhelming relative to its peer programs. Same for Sinai. As for the fellowship programs themselves... I leave that to the cards fanboys.
Gotta agree with canimakeit/gutonc - mgh will open all doors on both coasts.
Re diff btwn vandy and ucla, arguable - I'm from the south, interviewed at both and preferred vandy but they're likely both impressive but not "oh snap" worthy a la sf/mgh. Would rank both above ucsd though
Generally agree although bid's cards list seemed more national than UW's list, if that matters to you
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Given your stated GI interest, Sinai.should not be lower than two. Stanford one keeps everyone happy, haha. UCSD number three would be fine...also don't sleep on bayview, that match list is impressive across the board and ppl are quite happy there. Would def rank above brown, jeff et al
Ohsu also needs to be above davis methinks...gutonc? How is yalls gi match?
Wow. Don't blame you for having such a negative opinion if you experienced that on your interview day. Definitely trust your gut. Didn't happen to me, but I did find Simons odd.
What I liked about Yale was the opportunity for broad level 2 training, good pay (about 10K more salary than the NY programs with lower cost of living -gonna have a kid soon), and the opportunity to work with Krumholz. I preferred them to Cornell, but liked Sinai better (not significantly as you say though). You could make a case for ranking any of these places higher and it should be applicant dependent. All of them can produce well-trained academic leaders.
Just look at where Columbia's leaders went for fellowship:
Their PD:
http://nyp.org/physician/somarx/
The head of their world-famous cath lab
http://nyp.org/physician/mbleon/
I'm sure someone could find a Cornellian as a leader there too.
For the purposes of this thread, 4th year medical students need to understand that if a residency program is sending people to places like Penn, Northwestern, UCLA, Wash U, Columbia, or Duke on the reg, they are good enough to open the door at the most elite fellowships. The rest is up to the applicant.
Feel free to rank these programs as you see them!! 😀
It's a Cards thing having to do with procedure numbers and future credentialing opportunities after fellowship. It has virtually no relevance to residency.
I desire a career in medical education/hospitalist. #1 and 2 are pretty much figured out. I need help with the rest of the list.
1. B&W
2. UCLA
3-8:
Stanford
UCSD
BID
JHU
MGH
UW
I know it may be surprising that I'm ranking UCLA over some of these other programs, but I absolutely loved my interview day there and had that "gut feeling". If anything, I'm actually somewhat torn between choosing it as my #1 over B&W, but I'm sure some here would call that heresy.
Didn't get a good vibe from MGH, so not going to rank it high. I liked Hopkins, but I'm in a serious relationship and my gf has reservations about moving to Baltimore. Thanks for your help.
1. B&W
2. UCLA
3-8:
Stanford
UCSD
BID
JHU
MGH
UW
I know it may be surprising that I'm ranking UCLA over some of these other programs, but I absolutely loved my interview day there and had that "gut feeling". If anything, I'm actually somewhat torn between choosing it as my #1 over B&W, but I'm sure some here would call that heresy.
Didn't get a good vibe from MGH, so not going to rank it high. I liked Hopkins, but I'm in a serious relationship and my gf has reservations about moving to Baltimore. Thanks for your help.
All are great programs. You'll do well. I'm seeing more and more people take into account their "gut" feeling and prioritize location when making their rank list - nothing wrong with that.
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What factors are most important in consideration of ROL? Geographic location, program prestige, curriculum, "gut feeling?"
To those who have already been through the match: would you use the same criteria if having to go through match a second time?
To those who have already been through the match: would you use the same criteria if having to go through match a second time?
What is most important to you? Is it a career in academics? Or are you aiming for a GI or cards fellowship? Then go to the program with the best academic reputation and research/mentor opportunities.
Is it family? Or a balanced lifestyle? Then choose based on gut feeling and geographic preference.
And do you thrive in a high-pressure environment or a nurturing environment? Pick the environment that suits you- you likely won't excel if you hate your working atmosphere and your peers.
I stayed at my home institution for residency (a solid if unspectacular academic institution) because the program was mid-sized and very non-malignant; my extended family lived close by, my wife had a job in the area and I already had developed some mentoring relationships within my future sub-specialty. I interviewed at more prestigious programs. I have absolutely zero regrets choosing my "less prestigious" home institution. Could the pedigree of a more prestigious residency have gotten me interviews at some more prestigious fellowships? Probably. Would I have excelled in a less nurturing environment where I didn't already have good mentoring relationships and family close by? Probably not. I think those factors helped me maximize my potential as a doctor.
Figure out what's important to you; make your decision based upon those priorities and not based upon anyone else's dream list.
Hey everybody, need some help with my list. Im interested in hem/onc, and would love to get back to the NYC area eventually for fellowship. Im having some trouble differentiating some of these programs in terms of quality of training and fellowship opportunities, so any help would be greatly appreciated. This is how I see it at this point, but still fairly soft:
1. Montefiore
2. Maryland
3. Thomas Jefferson
4. NSLIJ
5. Temple
6. Dartmouth
7. Rochester
8. Case Western
9. Ohio State
10. St. Luke's-Roosevelt
11. UVM
12. Penn State
13. UMass
Thanks!
1. Montefiore
2. Maryland
3. Thomas Jefferson
4. NSLIJ
5. Temple
6. Dartmouth
7. Rochester
8. Case Western
9. Ohio State
10. St. Luke's-Roosevelt
11. UVM
12. Penn State
13. UMass
Thanks!
Hi, not even close to the powerhouse lists people have been posting but would appreciate some feedback.
Thinking of pulm/cc fellowship. May have slight preference for west coast (eventually want live in the west). In no particular order within tiers.
Tier 1:
UC Irvine vs Boston U vs. Tufts vs. CPMC (SF)
Tier 2:
Montefiore (NY) vs. St. Luke's Roosevelt vs. Washington Hospital Center (DC) vs. Fresno vs. Jackson/Miami
Tier 3:
U Hawaii vs. Lahey
Tier 4:
Downstate vs. Albert Einstein(Philly) vs. Alameda County(oakland)
Thoughts by tiers:
UCI- ?
BU- liked new PD, residents seems content, very large program
Tufts- small program, residents seems happy, work hard
CPMC- residents very happy, small program, community, SF good city, PD in transition
Monte- good reputation, but residents disappeared on interview day, attempted to contact some via email, no response. Does anyone know if these residents are unhappy/miserable? large program. I hear NY can be unfriendly to residents.
St. Luke's- residents seem happy, liked PD, more IMGs, again, in NY which may not be the friendliest of places for residents
Washington Hospital Center- seemed ok. PD invested in program.
Fresno- residents very happy, everyone loves PD, great pathology, but in... Fresno (nuff said)
Miami- ? I don't speak spanish, but it would be cool to be able to speak by the end of residency
UHawaii- supposedly getting better. No Pulm/CC fellowship
Lahey- rotated as a med student, loved the attendings. very small program.
Tier 4 - should I rank these?
Thanks!
Thinking of pulm/cc fellowship. May have slight preference for west coast (eventually want live in the west). In no particular order within tiers.
Tier 1:
UC Irvine vs Boston U vs. Tufts vs. CPMC (SF)
Tier 2:
Montefiore (NY) vs. St. Luke's Roosevelt vs. Washington Hospital Center (DC) vs. Fresno vs. Jackson/Miami
Tier 3:
U Hawaii vs. Lahey
Tier 4:
Downstate vs. Albert Einstein(Philly) vs. Alameda County(oakland)
Thoughts by tiers:
UCI- ?
BU- liked new PD, residents seems content, very large program
Tufts- small program, residents seems happy, work hard
CPMC- residents very happy, small program, community, SF good city, PD in transition
Monte- good reputation, but residents disappeared on interview day, attempted to contact some via email, no response. Does anyone know if these residents are unhappy/miserable? large program. I hear NY can be unfriendly to residents.
St. Luke's- residents seem happy, liked PD, more IMGs, again, in NY which may not be the friendliest of places for residents
Washington Hospital Center- seemed ok. PD invested in program.
Fresno- residents very happy, everyone loves PD, great pathology, but in... Fresno (nuff said)
Miami- ? I don't speak spanish, but it would be cool to be able to speak by the end of residency
UHawaii- supposedly getting better. No Pulm/CC fellowship
Lahey- rotated as a med student, loved the attendings. very small program.
Tier 4 - should I rank these?
Thanks!
I'm interested in academic medicine and continuing research, and I'm thinking about subspecializing in either gen cards or endo. Two very disparate fields, but with cards in the mix, I think I have to take fellowship placement into consideration.
I learn best with a combination of hands-on training and book studying. When I visited UTSW, it seemed like the residents were VERY busy and many were taking Step 3 in year 2 due to lack of study time. I was also concerned about the boards pass rate. However, I really liked the faculty and residents, and no one can deny the strength in the clinical training there.
Any advice on how to rank the following? Location doesn't matter, but in the end, I'd like to wind up on the west coast after fellowship.
1. UTSW
2. University of Michigan
3. Vanderbilt
4. Emory
5. UCLA
6. Case Western University
7. UPMC
Thanks and good luck, everyone!
I learn best with a combination of hands-on training and book studying. When I visited UTSW, it seemed like the residents were VERY busy and many were taking Step 3 in year 2 due to lack of study time. I was also concerned about the boards pass rate. However, I really liked the faculty and residents, and no one can deny the strength in the clinical training there.
Any advice on how to rank the following? Location doesn't matter, but in the end, I'd like to wind up on the west coast after fellowship.
1. UTSW
2. University of Michigan
3. Vanderbilt
4. Emory
5. UCLA
6. Case Western University
7. UPMC
Thanks and good luck, everyone!
I also interviewed at 1,2,3,4,7 and that was my gut feeling too. But I'm interested in GI, so I might flip Michigan to the top. Did you like UCLA? I thought they have pretty good match list, though they lost cards and GI faculty to cedars-sinai from what I heard.
UTSW
Michigan
Vandy
Emory
Pitt
UTSW
Michigan
Vandy
Emory
Pitt
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I liked UCLA but I was concerned about the loss of cards faculty to Cedars-Sinai as well. There seems to be a high turnover of faculty. The residents seemed happy though and who can deny the sunshine + beaches of California.
It was interesting how much Cedars-Sinai spoke about this on my interview day.
Concerns I had with UCLA were relative lack of indigent care and large percentage of transplant patients. But the reputation/location is certainly a draw for most.
True, UCLA's reputation is great but my advisors have cautioned me against following reputation. Sometimes they lag behind what's actually going on. I worry that the high faculty turnover is a sign of something bad going on. But who knows....
What do East and West Coast fellowship programs think of UCLA? Ideally, at the end of my 3 years, I'd like to be able to go anywhere without feeling like I was at a disadvantage.
