Program Specific Questions

[jdh71]

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I think that letting the opinions of a bunch of douchecanoes on the intarwubs (like me) about a particular program that you clearly think is one of the best places for you is ridiculous.

If it were my list, I'd put every other program you mentioned higher than Case, but it's not my list, it's yours. If you liked Case then run with it.

To be fair though Case seems to be very "up and coming". I think we talk about Case now about the same way we talked about Pitt 7 years ago.

 

[jdh71]

Thoughts on U of Maryland??

I have heard great things, but wanted to get other opinions. Especially if you could compare this program to Georgetown's and George Washington for a Cards fellowship?

MD owns GT and GW

 

[penguindude]

Can you compare UC Davis and Wake Forest, in terms of fellowship match, rigor of program, reputation and location? As far as I know, both are in fairly sub-urbanish areas, solid programs and their residents seem to do ok, but I couldn't really make out the particulars. Please let me know if i got this right or if i'm completely off.

 

[jdh71]

Can you compare UC Davis and Wake Forest, in terms of fellowship match, rigor of program, reputation and location? As far as I know, both are in fairly sub-urbanish areas, solid programs and their residents seem to do ok, but I couldn't really make out the particulars. Please let me know if i got this right or if i'm completely off.

Sounds about right.

 

[Lccjblu]

I asked this question a few months ago, but only got two responses. Now that I've interviewed at both programs, am still a little torn between the two: UMKC vs KU. Currently leaning quite heavily towards Kansas, but I am totally unfamiliar with the area.

UMKC: Truman with no non-teaching service meant that residents deal with rocks (one applicant asked about this and got some attitude by the residents who said that it social issues are important teaching points too. Agreed, but not when you have a patient who is medically stable waiting forplacement for a week...).Their other hospital St Luke seems really nice, but the fact that it is private worries me. Lots of FMGs here. Not many UMKC medical students that stay in-house,seems like 1-2 per year.

Kansas: Really nice PD and aPD. the osteopathic school in town seems to matriculate more students here versus UMKC which makes it seemlike the preferred program. Certainly has very strong specialities (something like 12/12 ranked by US news in the gold category or something like that).

 

[jdh71]

I asked this question a few months ago, but only got two responses. Now that I've interviewed at both programs, am still a little torn between the two: UMKC vs KU. Currently leaning quite heavily towards Kansas, but I am totally unfamiliar with the area.

UMKC: Truman with no non-teaching service meant that residents deal with rocks (one applicant asked about this and got some attitude by the residents who said that it social issues are important teaching points too. Agreed, but not when you have a patient who is medically stable waiting forplacement for a week...).Their other hospital St Luke seems really nice, but the fact that it is private worries me. Lots of FMGs here. Not many UMKC medical students that stay in-house,seems like 1-2 per year.

Kansas: Really nice PD and aPD. the osteopathic school in town seems to matriculate more students here versus UMKC which makes it seemlike the preferred program. Certainly has very strong specialities (something like 12/12 ranked by US news in the gold category or something like that).

This is easy KU is the better academic program. Not to say anything "bad" about UMKC, but their "flagship" is out in Coloumbus.

KU > UMKC all day long

 

[Lccjblu]

This is easy KU is the better academic program. Not to say anything "bad" about UMKC, but their "flagship" is out in Coloumbus.

KU > UMKC all day long

Oh wow totally didnt know about the mizzou being the flagship campus bit. that is really good to know. Thanks!!

 

[Beacopp665]

Anyone have any inside information or general info on the MD Anderson track offered this year by Baylor? Seems like a good opportunity to get a lot of Exposure to oncology patients, but I am worried that MDACC started this just to have extra hands helping with the medical issues on all their patients. Anyone have any thoughts?

Additionally even if you don't know anything about the program would love to hear if people have experience with starting as a new class and some of the associated growing pains involved. There will only be 5 people in the track and it is just starting this year.

 

[gutonc]

Anyone have any inside information or general info on the MD Anderson track offered this year by Baylor? Seems like a good opportunity to get a lot of Exposure to oncology patients, but I am worried that MDACC started this just to have extra hands helping with the medical issues on all their patients. Anyone have any thoughts?

Both of those things are probably true. Decide if A is worth B to you.

 

[jdh71]

Like REALLY decide. Heh.

 

[Vision2011]

Anyone have any inside information or general info on the MD Anderson track offered this year by Baylor? Seems like a good opportunity to get a lot of Exposure to oncology patients, but I am worried that MDACC started this just to have extra hands helping with the medical issues on all their patients. Anyone have any thoughts?

Additionally even if you don't know anything about the program would love to hear if people have experience with starting as a new class and some of the associated growing pains involved. There will only be 5 people in the track and it is just starting this year.

At my interview day, they gave basic information for track in that 1/3 of time is spent at MDACC on medicine services taking care of oncology patients (ie nephrology, cardiology, general internal). They also told me that is it to create Oncology Hospitalists, and not for those interested in fellowship in Hem/Onc.

 

[jdh71]

Oncology hospitalists?

 

[Vision2011]

Oncology hospitalists?

Yes, that is what they said. Basically, hospitalists trained to work in a cancer center and deal with all cancer complications and general medical needs so Oncologist strictly treats cancer. Interesting concept, but would seem to me to only work at very large academic centers.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Google helps:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/830001

Our institution's heme/onc NP service is run by oncology "hospitalists" who are all non-tenure track faculty boarded in hematology and oncology. That of course is far different that the above.

 

[jdh71]

Yes, that is what they said. Basically, hospitalists trained to work in a cancer center and deal with all cancer complications and general medical needs so Oncologist strictly treats cancer. Interesting concept, but would seem to me to only work at very large academic centers.

Sounds like a glorified bitch.

 

[fantasty]

Sounds like a glorified bitch.

IM consults in general?

 

[Handsome88]

I have a questions about these programs, can I go wrong going to any of these if I want Cards:

Houston Methodist:
What's the reputation of this community program overall. It is my #2 on my ROL. As an IMG wishing to pursue a Cardiology fellowship, how much emphasis should I put here about the whole university vs community program aspect. Will I be shooting myself in the foot if I rank it #1?

UMass:
I've heard that the program does not take IMG cardiology/GI fellows, and most likely must have to do a chief year first. Is that true?

Monte
The match list isn't that impressive for the two most competitive subspecialties.
q2 call, scut work, heard about residents having to stay until 11pm, supposed to have alternating long (8pm leave) day and short (5:30 pm leave) day but residents said it's pretty much a long day everyday. Residents looked generally unhappy.
Can anyone please justify it's high reputation? I'm not hating on it I just want to see if I'm missing anything. Is it really worth ranking it above the other two (i.e. safer route to Cards if I suck it up for 3 years)?

 

[thehundredthone]

Monte
I don't understand why it has such a high reputation here on SDN.

Just to clarify, Montefiore has a Moses-Weiler campus (the real Monte) and the Wakefield campus (and New Rochelle but that's not the Bronx). Which one did you go to?

My general advice to you would be to try and look at the match lists for IMGs if possible. You will not get as good an idea looking at the overall match list. If you are able to compare programs on that basis you will have a better idea of what your outlook is likely to be (fellowship wise) at each program.

 

[vitamin D]

Hi
I am an international graduate with very good credentials US experience and Research. I interviewed at Allegheny/West Penn for IM and I am planning to rank it high on my ROL even higher than a southern university program.
Could anybody please provide input/ share an experience about this place? (I don't want to be missing any peace of the puzzle)
Are they as good as they sell themselves? will I have any future opportunity for a fellowship in universities after residency?
Your input is really appreciated!

 

[Handsome88]

Just to clarify, Montefiore has a Moses-Weiler campus (the real Monte) and the Wakefield campus (and New Rochelle but that's not the Bronx). Which one did you go to?

My general advice to you would be to try and look at the match lists for IMGs if possible. You will not get as good an idea looking at the overall match list. If you are able to compare programs on that basis you will have a better idea of what your outlook is likely to be (fellowship wise) at each program.

The real Monte.

And I looked at the matcg lists hundreds of times but it's very hard to know what's better given that there's no deminator. They all have 3-4 residents match in Cards and one or two of them is always in-house. You can't tell if they were IMGs and if they were US citizens or not. Also I cant tell how many of those who matched in Nephrology or stayed to do hospitalist/PC initially wanted Cards. So match lists are really unhelpful to an extent.

So why is (real) monte so highly regarded here?

 

[niner23]

Does anyone know how competitive USC has gotten recently? From previous threads and posts on SDN in years past, it was not considered competitive and spots were being filled with DOs and IMGs. I know in recent years with the change in PD, it's pretty much an all-AMG program and became more desirable. I thought it was a pretty good program when I interviewed there and I'm going to rank it #1. Just curious on how competitive it is given that they interview a bunch of people albeit for a lot of spots (but half filled by their own grads).

 

[whoknows2012]

The real Monte.

And I looked at the matcg lists hundreds of times but it's very hard to know what's better given that there's no deminator. They all have 3-4 residents match in Cards and one or two of them is always in-house. You can't tell if they were IMGs and if they were US citizens or not. Also I cant tell how many of those who matched in Nephrology or stayed to do hospitalist/PC initially wanted Cards. So match lists are really unhelpful to an extent.

So why is (real) monte so highly regarded here?

Monte resident here. If you have more specific questions you can pm me. First off, I'll address the IMG topic. Every yr monte takes about 3-4 foreign grads, usually from UK, but as an example this yr one of the 3 was from turkey. Last yr 2 from UK and one from Portugal. There are 38 categorical spots and only the best IMGs match. As another example current 3rd yr from England went to Oxford has a phd and matched at Sloan for heme/onc. Last yr another resident, from Spain went to undergrad and med school in England and also had a phd, and he too matched to Sloan.

In terms of cardiology, you don't have to take
my word for it but everyone who wanted cards matched . No one who wanted cards also applied for renal or other specialities. If you look at the match list it was actually quite good, I'm not sure what you're seeing. Cards at monte is also not a bad thing, in fact quite the opposite. The last 2 yrs they took one monte resident. This yr to my knowledge 2 of those cArds matches were IMGs (umass for sure and possibly uvm).

The point regarding ranking Houston methodist and umass over monte is advice that anybody on this board will give you; Rank the place that you would most like to be, which doesn't sound like monte. Monte certainly has a better reputation than houston Methodist and umass but don't take my word for it hear what others have to say as their unbiased opinion may be of more help (although will likely corroborate my thoughts)

 

[thehundredthone]

Monte resident here. If you have more specific questions you can pm me. First off, I'll address the IMG topic. Every yr monte takes about 3-4 foreign grads, usually from UK, but as an example this yr one of the 3 was from turkey. Last yr 2 from UK and one from Portugal. There are 38 categorical spots and only the best IMGs match. As another example current 3rd yr from England went to Oxford has a phd and matched at Sloan for heme/onc. Last yr another resident, from Spain went to undergrad and med school in England and also had a phd, and he too matched to Sloan.

When he said he can't tell if they're IMGs he didn't mean it in the typical all IMGs are bad way, I had asked him to try and find out where the IMG residents matched and presumably there isn't an accessible list that has that information. And I'm sure he's just as highly qualified. Obviously the impression of an 'impressive' (see what I did there) match list can be subjective to some extent. It's great that you were able to provide some specific information regarding the IMG matches though, even for fellowship it's still a slightly different game for IMGs.

 

[sys_71082]

So I have a few interviews, 2 of which are Coney Island in NY and Steward Carney (formerly Caritas Carney) in Boston for Internal Medicine Residency. I cant decide how to rank these programs. My main concern is I've heard both programs are malignant (from forum posts dating back to 2008) but no recent information. I wanted to see if anyone has any experience or knowledge about the current situation for these programs and how completing residency in them may affect chances of securing a job after residency.
I am a U.S. Foreign Medical Graduate.

 

[gutonc]

So I have a few interviews, 2 of which are Coney Island in NY and Steward Carney (formerly Caritas Carney) in Boston for Internal Medicine Residency. I cant decide how to rank these programs. My main concern is I've heard both programs are malignant (from forum posts dating back to 2008) but no recent information. I wanted to see if anyone has any experience or knowledge about the current situation for these programs and how completing residency in them may affect chances of securing a job after residency.
I am a U.S. Foreign Medical Graduate.

I know nothing about Carney but Coney Island is a total s***show and is only modestly better than not matching at all. But if you finish there, you'll get a job somewhere, so there's that.

 

[vman51]

Question about NYU:

They said that phlebotomy at Bellevue comes 4x/day, and patient transport is decent, and that they the residents don't spend that much time doing these things (except for a handful of times when they need something done ASAP, they'll do it themselves in those cases).

Everything that i've read on the boards here contradicts that, so anyone at/familiar with NYU care to comment on the scut at Bellevue (It does seem like some nurses can have attitudes and there are plenty of placement issues, don't think that has changed over the years).

 

[gutonc]

Question about NYU:

They said that phlebotomy at Bellevue comes 4x/day, and patient transport is decent, and that they the residents don't spend that much time doing these things (except for a handful of times when they need something done ASAP, they'll do it themselves in those cases).

Everything that i've read on the boards here contradicts that, so anyone at/familiar with NYU care to comment on the scut at Bellevue (It does seem like some nurses can have attitudes and there are plenty of placement issues, don't think that has changed over the years).

There's often very different interpretations of what "resident's don't spend that much time doing these things" means to the administration of a program and to the interns who are actually doing it. So it's entirely possible that both of these statements are true.

And yes, unionized NYC nurses, particularly in HHC hospitals can be some of the least helpful people on earth.

 

[WutWhat]

A few specific questions, but goal is to strike a balance between getting strong clinical training at an awesome place and eventually going back to So-Cal for GI/academic hospitalist.

- UTSW vs Cornell (rank #2-3): Totally loved both places for the people, faculty, training, city. My general impression is that Cornell (vs UTSW) is lacking more in the EMR and nursing/ancillary staff departments. There also seemed to be a lot of random conferences whereas UTSW just had noon conference. Both seem strong, but who has a better west coast rep? Any other input would be appreciated.

- Where to rank UCSD compared to UTSW, Cornell, Emory, WashU: Maybe I had an off interview day at UCSD, but I had a less impressive experience compared to others. Seems UCSD is in a unique place of attracting competitive applicants due to location, but the program's rep isn't quite up there (they kind of downplayed their GI/cards match stats during my interview day). The residents were great, but I did like the feel of the other programs more. With the end goals of pursuing GI and going back to So-Cal eventually, is there a general consensus on how much higher I should bump UCSD?

Thanks!

 

[bleedinggreennation]

Question about NYU:

They said that phlebotomy at Bellevue comes 4x/day, and patient transport is decent, and that they the residents don't spend that much time doing these things (except for a handful of times when they need something done ASAP, they'll do it themselves in those cases).

Everything that i've read on the boards here contradicts that, so anyone at/familiar with NYU care to comment on the scut at Bellevue (It does seem like some nurses can have attitudes and there are plenty of placement issues, don't think that has changed over the years).

Current MS4 at NYU, I would say that the majority of the time blood draws and patient transport is adequate, sometimes, AM labs take a little bit longer to come back or they might get drawn a little bit late. If you do need something stat and you're not in the MICU/CCU, then sometimes it is better to do it yourself instead of waiting for phlebotomy or have your med student do it. The ancillary staff aren't the nicest people and they typically won't volunteer to help if you don't ask them, but you get a thick skin pretty quick. I would definitely say that the residents at NYU are awesome, they're outgoing, energetic, fun people and I haven't had trouble with any of them. I also think that you see cases here that you wouldn't see anywhere else, and I've had that belief confirmed on the interview trail at other places talking to NYU alums...thinking back to the patients I've seen/consulted on included XDR-TB, HLH, Fabry's disease presenting in middle adulthood, severe babesia, mycobacterium marinum osteomyelitis, fulminant hepatic failure from MDMA...those are only off the top of my head.

 

[gzer0]

A few specific questions, but goal is to strike a balance between getting strong clinical training at an awesome place and eventually going back to So-Cal for GI/academic hospitalist.

- UTSW vs Cornell (rank #2-3): Totally loved both places for the people, faculty, training, city. My general impression is that Cornell (vs UTSW) is lacking more in the EMR and nursing/ancillary staff departments. There also seemed to be a lot of random conferences whereas UTSW just had noon conference. Both seem strong, but who has a better west coast rep? Any other input would be appreciated.

- Where to rank UCSD compared to UTSW, Cornell, Emory, WashU: Maybe I had an off interview day at UCSD, but I had a less impressive experience compared to others. Seems UCSD is in a unique place of attracting competitive applicants due to location, but the program's rep isn't quite up there (they kind of downplayed their GI/cards match stats during my interview day). The residents were great, but I did like the feel of the other programs more. With the end goals of pursuing GI and going back to So-Cal eventually, is there a general consensus on how much higher I should bump UCSD?

Thanks!

I would assume UTSW has a better west coast rep than Cornell because it's geographically closer. Look at their match lists and see who sends who to California. Programs love taking residents from institutions who they have had previous experience with. With that said, I think the general consensus is that both are fantastic programs with great training, but UTSW is slightly more renowned than Cornell for IM.

I also think UCSD is slightly weaker than Cornell and in a different tier than all those programs you listed. However, if your goal is to end up in So-Cal, it doesn't get much better than going there for residency where your faculty will be more well-known regionally. Even if you attend another residency program across the country, as long as you have a compelling reason to be back in California (it sounds like you've lived there before or originally from there), it should be fine.

 

[chahn85]

California-only applicant here. Fellowship interest is GI.
UCLA is my #1, and I need help deciding my #2 and #3 between UCSD and Cedars-Sinai.
UCSD most likely offers better clinical training given that it is a major academic institution, but I am considering ranking Cedars above UCSD because my family is in LA.
Could anybody tell me if this is a reasonable decision? Thanks!!

 

[Handsome88]

Any past/current residents/fellows at UMass or if you know someone who is that I can ask questions to about the program?

Thanks.

 

[Lccjblu]

Ohio state- I've heard through the grapevine that there has been a string of higher ups in the med center being forced out or simply stepping down. Dr gabbe the CEO is stepping down, supposedly forced out. Chief operating officer is gone, the Vp of care coordination out too.

Any implications in terms of residency? Sure there aren't any changes to program leadership but what about how residents are treated and how much of a priority they will be in the med center's vision?

 

[Applicant9999]

Similar question to ohio state, but regarding yale and the recent sexual harrassment case resulting in the dismissal of the former chief of cardiology and the investigation of the dean of medicine?

 

[gutonc]

Any implications in terms of residency? Sure there aren't any changes to program leadership but what about how residents are treated and how much of a priority they will be in the med center's vision?

Just to be clear here, no medical center, anywhere in the US considers residents a priority in their vision beyond the residents' ability to move the meat. Anything you hear otherwise is spin. Individual departments may, but not the medical center as a whole.

 

[Lccjblu]

Just to be clear here, no medical center, anywhere in the US considers residents a priority in their vision beyond the residents' ability to move the meat. Anything you hear otherwise is spin. Individual departments may, but not the medical center as a whole.

Touché haha

 

[applicant33]

Does anyone have insight on IM program at UIC? How much is it resident run and how good are the didactics? And resident camaraderie? Thanks!

 

[GODARDorRIVETTE]

Does anyone remember the status of EMRs at these programs:

Jefferson, Temple, Tufts

I remember they were all "about to get" EMRs but can't remember the timing

UIC, Rush, Loyola I think already had them, right?

 

[gutonc]

Does anyone remember the status of EMRs at these programs:

Jefferson, Temple, Tufts

I remember they were all "about to get" EMRs but can't remember the timing

UIC, Rush, Loyola I think already had them, right?

I don't know the specific answer to your question but "about to get an EMR" in hospital-speak translates to "will go live with an EMR in late May of your PGY3 year...when you're in the ICU" in English.

 

[lulu09]

Does anyone remember the status of EMRs at these programs:

Jefferson, Temple, Tufts

I remember they were all "about to get" EMRs but can't remember the timing

UIC, Rush, Loyola I think already had them, right?

Rush and Loyola already have Epic.

 

[throwaway1988]

Mayo clinic.
Is it really as good as this forum makes it out to be? I did 2 away electives there and was very disappointed. Interns were overworked and unhappy, a couple even regretted going into Medicine in the first place. Many residents come in at 5:45 and stay back until 9pm. Most interns doing 78-79 hours a week. For a hospital that gets that much good press I found that it lacks social work (not all the time though, we've had good NPs a few times). Some couldn't stay awake during noon conferences. The ones that did stay awake got paged too many times for them to be able to stay. Similar to CCF it is VERY resident/fellow lead. I've only stayed there for ~2 months but I didn't see many involved in research. It's not too big on academics, relatively speaking

Being the biggest hospital in the middle of nowhere, expect getting lots of transfers from other hospitals that couldn't handle the case and you're stuck with a pile of written records transfered or, even worse, no records. The EMR interface isn't the best too.

Also, if you think going to the "#1 hospital" (according to US News report...if you listen to that) is a good thing. Try having patient after patient expect the absolute infallible patient care ever, and if you make a small mistake or even have a misunderstanding, they suddenly want to sue you because "they thought they were at Mayo Clinic". They criticize everything, from how the room is laid out to the nursing staff to you. You will hear "I thought this was Mayo Clinic" a few times a week. It is a hospital definitely more geared towards the patients than residents. Oh yea, didn't receive a single verbal feedback from attendings.

The "city" was very boring. I got depressed for a bit the 2.5 months I was there. Freezing Cold. If you're single...well good luck finding a SO there.

I'm not saying it's a bad program. But every time I see it being ranked #1 with other great programs on the list I cringe and feel that that person is deceived by the name. Why does CCF get the shaft on here when Mayo isn't any different?

 

[Aequanimitatis]

Mayo clinic.
Is it really as good as this forum makes it out to be? I did 2 away electives there and was very disappointed. Interns were overworked and unhappy, a couple even regretted going into Medicine in the first place. Many residents come in at 5:45 and stay back until 9pm. Most interns doing 78-79 hours a week. For a hospital that gets that much good press I found that it lacks social work (not all the time though, we've had good NPs a few times). Some couldn't stay awake during noon conferences. The ones that did stay awake got paged too many times for them to be able to stay. Similar to CCF it is VERY resident lead. I've only stayed there for ~2 months but I didn't see many involved in research. It's not too big on academics, relatively speaking

Also, if you think going to the "#1 hospital" (according to US News report...if you listen to that) is a good thing. Try having patient after patient expect the absolute infallible patient care ever, and if you make a small mistake or even have a misunderstanding, they suddenly want to sue you because "they thought they were at Mayo Clinic". They criticize everything, from how the room is laid out to the nursing staff to you. It is a hospital definitely more geared towards the patients than residents. Oh yea, didn't receive a single verbal feedback from attendings.

The "city" was very boring. I got depressed for a bit the 2.5 months I was there. Freezing Cold. If you're single...well good luck finding a SO there.

I'm not saying it's a bad program. But every time I see it being ranked #1 with other great programs on the list I cringe and feel that that person is deceived by the name. Why does CCF get the shaft on here when Mayo isn't any different?

Not a Mayo fan myself but did you actually interview there? You make some good points but I do not agree that it is resident led...in fact it is a hospital system that can function entirely without residents and autonomy seems to be more of an issue than at most of the other "top" programs.

Being a #1 hospital in the US does not have much to do with the residency. In fact the reason behind their out-of-nowhere move to #1 has to do with quality metrics.

I am surprised to hear of the schedule you speak of (5.45 am to 9pm) because I have several close friends in IM and doing IM time in Neurology over there and none of them brought up hours being an issue. In fact this would screw the 10 hour gap that is supposedly mandated between shifts by the ACGME and I have a hard time imagining Mayo Clinic breaks that.

This is all not to mention that their 4/4 in/outpt schedule is ridiculously chill for IM and that, for whatever it is worth, they have done a study showing their residents are the most prolific in terms of publishing than anywhere else in the country. While I have not looked at this myself it was a significant selling point of their interview day and this would be inconsistent with your observations above.

To us applicants as always, rank them how you like them.

 

[throwaway1988]

Not a Mayo fan myself but did you actually interview there? You make some good points but I do not agree that it is resident led...in fact it is a hospital system that can function entirely without residents and autonomy seems to be more of an issue than at most of the other "top" programs.

Being a #1 hospital in the US does not have much to do with the residency. In fact the reason behind their out-of-nowhere move to #1 has to do with quality metrics.

I am surprised to hear of the schedule you speak of (5.45 am to 9pm) because I have several close friends in IM and doing IM time in Neurology over there and none of them brought up hours being an issue. In fact this would screw the 10 hour gap that is supposedly mandated between shifts by the ACGME and I have a hard time imagining Mayo Clinic breaks that.

This is all not to mention that their 4/4 in/outpt schedule is ridiculously chill for IM and that, for whatever it is worth, they have done a study showing their residents are the most prolific in terms of publishing than anywhere else in the country. While I have not looked at this myself it was a significant selling point of their interview day and this would be inconsistent with your observations above.

To us applicants as always, rank them how you like them.

Sorry I already corrected the "resident lead" above, I meant fellow lead (in subspecialty rotations). Which is similar to CCF and what makes people rank it so low. So why is Mayo ranked high?

Your friends may be doing an easy rotation. I did subspecialty rotations and interns were there at 5:45 (expected me to be there first as a medical student) and on many days remained up to 9pm, usually 7pm though, which is still a lot.

 

[Aequanimitatis]

Sorry I already corrected the "resident lead" above, I meant fellow lead (in subspecialty rotations). Which is similar to CCF and what makes people rank it so low. So why is Mayo ranked high?

Your friends may be doing an easy rotation. I did subspecialty rotations and interns were there at 5:45 (expected me to be there first as a medical student) and on many days remained up to 9pm, usually 7pm though, which is still a lot.

My friends are residents there, several of them PGY2 or higher so I doubt it is the byproduct of being on easier rotations unless all of them are "easy". 5.45 am to 7pm seems much more realistic (9pm no doubt being the exception) and is not out of the norm for IM floors, ICU, and subspecialty units at many programs in the country (sometimes even consults...although more rare).

This is only speculation but I would think those doximity members voting supposedly on the residency quality are not entirely doing so...I am led to believe the great fellowship opportunities/training at Mayo and CCF is leading to inflated tallies and ultimately some of the nonsense that is reflected in the IM residency rankings. There is not a chance in hell CCF holds a candle to BID, U Chicago, Yale, NYU (which are all "ranked" below it) purely in terms of IM residency. Mayo is relatively higher at #6 but again...Columbia, UPenn, UW etc. being all below it does not make sense to me.

So both are overrated rankings wise but Mayo is ultimately significantly higher and you ask why. I will leave this to more experienced posters since it would be only further speculation on my part. In my case I interviewed at Mayo but did not apply to CCF because, despite its shortcomings, Mayo is still a great program burdened by Rochester, MN in terms of recruitment. Its residents seem to secure better fellowships (whether staying or going) more consistently so, while CCF screws a lot of their own residents from having a chance at their own fellowships more so.

With all of this said, it is unusual to do away rotations in IM and for those who do them it is usually to have a shot at the absolute top programs in the country like MGH. Sounds like you should have spent your other month somewhere else. And again, you have not answered the question of whether you interviewed at Mayo. If not, I am not sure how any of this helps you unless you are trying to compare CCF to Mayo. If yes, then don't rank or rank Mayo very lowly if that's what your gut tells you.

 

[iniquus]

Mayo clinic.
Is it really as good as this forum makes it out to be? I did 2 away electives there and was very disappointed. Interns were overworked and unhappy, a couple even regretted going into Medicine in the first place. Many residents come in at 5:45 and stay back until 9pm. Most interns doing 78-79 hours a week. For a hospital that gets that much good press I found that it lacks social work (not all the time though, we've had good NPs a few times). Some couldn't stay awake during noon conferences. The ones that did stay awake got paged too many times for them to be able to stay. Similar to CCF it is VERY resident/fellow lead. I've only stayed there for ~2 months but I didn't see many involved in research. It's not too big on academics, relatively speaking

Being the biggest hospital in the middle of nowhere, expect getting lots of transfers from other hospitals that couldn't handle the case and you're stuck with a pile of written records transfered or, even worse, no records. The EMR interface isn't the best too.

Also, if you think going to the "#1 hospital" (according to US News report...if you listen to that) is a good thing. Try having patient after patient expect the absolute infallible patient care ever, and if you make a small mistake or even have a misunderstanding, they suddenly want to sue you because "they thought they were at Mayo Clinic". They criticize everything, from how the room is laid out to the nursing staff to you. You will hear "I thought this was Mayo Clinic" a few times a week. It is a hospital definitely more geared towards the patients than residents. Oh yea, didn't receive a single verbal feedback from attendings.

The "city" was very boring. I got depressed for a bit the 2.5 months I was there. Freezing Cold. If you're single...well good luck finding a SO there.

I'm not saying it's a bad program. But every time I see it being ranked #1 with other great programs on the list I cringe and feel that that person is deceived by the name. Why does CCF get the shaft on here when Mayo isn't any different?

I interviewed at Mayo and while it didn't blow me away, it's a very solid medicine residency program in an unfortunate location. Obviously you may have more insight by doing two away electives there, but I thought there was tons of research opportunities and residents were encouraged to participate in them with their 4/4 schedule and bottomless resident researching funding. Understand that the hours you mentioned are not far off from other top-tier medicine programs where you are expected to work diligently. The difference is they don't have the benefit of having a schedule in which half the year is devoted to less strenuous outpatient medicine.

You made an anonymous account relatively close to the time when people are submitting their rank lists, but yet identify yourself easily as there are probably only a handful of students who would have done two away rotations at Mayo. You either are a scorned and bitter medical student who didn't get an interview there, or you have ulterior motives speaking against such a program on this forum.

 

[redpanda]

I don't know the specific answer to your question but "about to get an EMR" in hospital-speak translates to "will go live with an EMR in late May of your PGY3 year...when you're in the ICU" in English.

I always interpreted the lack of a single day quoted for implementation meant that there would almost certainly be no EMR while I'm in residency.

 

[meliora27]

Does anyone remember the status of EMRs at these programs:

Jefferson, Temple, Tufts

I remember they were all "about to get" EMRs but can't remember the timing

UIC, Rush, Loyola I think already had them, right?

UIC has Cerner for EMR

 

[GODARDorRIVETTE]

I always interpreted the lack of a single day quoted for implementation meant that there would almost certainly be no EMR while I'm in residency.

Haha yep, but I remember each of those 3 (Tufts, Jeff, Temple) saying that they'd have inpatient EMR in the first year and they gave a date. But I wanted to see if anyone knows if those are "real dates" or "planned dates" if you get my drift. The schools are so close together for me I'm kinda grasping at straws trying to rank haha.

 

[kuuj3307]

To say that Mayo overworks their residents completely removes any real credibility you had. Out of the "top tier" programs, it is probably the most cush(besides maybe Northwestern, didn't interview there). I get the argument of being fellow driven and that it doesn't train great clinicians, but I doubt there's a program in the country that better prepares physician scientists.

 

[gutonc]

UIC has Cerner for EMR

This, by itself would be a good reason to drop it lower (or off) your list. Cerner blows.