This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Not sure if this is an appropriate thread but I have a question on match violations. Recently attended an interview where a PC was walking applicants individually to a place and casually asked where else I was interviewing. I confirmed that the same thing happened with at least two other applicants. Isn't it a match violation to ask that question?
 
Not sure if this is an appropriate thread but I have a question on match violations. Recently attended an interview where a PC was walking applicants individually to a place and casually asked where else I was interviewing. I confirmed that the same thing happened with at least two other applicants. Isn't it a match violation to ask that question?

No. It's a pretty common question.
 
Not sure if this is an appropriate thread but I have a question on match violations. Recently attended an interview where a PC was walking applicants individually to a place and casually asked where else I was interviewing. I confirmed that the same thing happened with at least two other applicants. Isn't it a match violation to ask that question?
It's kind of lame, but not a match violation. I have asked it of every person I've ever interviewed.

I'm kind of lame.
 
It's kind of lame, but not a match violation. I have asked it of every person I've ever interviewed.

I'm kind of lame.

@gutonc or other residency interviewers

I was wondering why this question is asked by residencies, so would be great if you could shed some light on why you ask it (and even speculate on why others might - your speculation would be much more informed than mine obviously). In particular, if I'm asked this question (which I have been) and I happen to mention a couple of places that are quite a bit higher on the academic competitiveness tier (however subjectively defined) than the place I'm interviewing at, are you (the interviewer) more likely to be (1) more positively inclined, since there is some additional external validation of my credentials, or (2) somewhat negatively inclined, since you figure I am more likely than you expected (before I gave out that information) to match somewhere else than your own institution even if you rank me to match? A related question in the second case above is why it should matter to PDs anyway, since in theory they should just rank candidates in the order they like them, without reference to their likelihood of ranking your institution high? Or is there some other reason. e.g. it somehow matters to PDs as to how deep down their rank list they go in order to fill, and they therefore end up making some adjustments to a candidate's ranking based on their likelihood of ranking their institution high?
 
How do these programs rank in terms of prestige? For fellowship matching into competitive subspecialty like cards or GI. No geographical preferences.

Baylor
Ohio State
Indiana
UIC
Loyola
Einstein Moses/Weiler
VCU
Albany
Tulane
USF Morsani
U Nevada Las Vegas
baylor =osu =iu> loyola= uic = albany =tulane=vcu> rest of list
 
@gutonc or other residency interviewers

I was wondering why this question is asked by residencies, so would be great if you could shed some light on why you ask it (and even speculate on why others might - your speculation would be much more informed than mine obviously). In particular, if I'm asked this question (which I have been) and I happen to mention a couple of places that are quite a bit higher on the academic competitiveness tier (however subjectively defined) than the place I'm interviewing at, are you (the interviewer) more likely to be (1) more positively inclined, since there is some additional external validation of my credentials, or (2) somewhat negatively inclined, since you figure I am more likely than you expected (before I gave out that information) to match somewhere else than your own institution even if you rank me to match? A related question in the second case above is why it should matter to PDs anyway, since in theory they should just rank candidates in the order they like them, without reference to their likelihood of ranking your institution high? Or is there some other reason. e.g. it somehow matters to PDs as to how deep down their rank list they go in order to fill, and they therefore end up making some adjustments to a candidate's ranking based on their likelihood of ranking their institution high?

My best advice (having been on both sides of the interview table fairly recently - interviewed resident applicants and interviewed for fellowship): name other programs in a similar clout in the same general region. Programs want to know you're interested in them, and that includes location. If program X is your only interview in the Midwest, they may think twice about you wanting to relocate to Minnesota (or insert other cold Midwest locale). Same goes for the rest of the regions. I doubt most places will knock you down on their ranking list based off of where they see you matching but I'm sure it happens at times, and I think for maybe two reasons.

(1) Bragging rights. Being able to say "we only went down 10:1" as opposed to 25:1 is something (some) higher-ups like.
(2) They want happy residents. They know you're less likely to be thrilled with your 10th choice, and if that's them they don't want to deal with a person who's always moaning/complaining (not that this necessarily happens every time, but I'm sure it does at times).

TLDR: Just like the rest of the interview process, it's a bit of a game. Don't tip your whole hand, but make them feel wanted.
 
@gutonc or other residency interviewers

I was wondering why this question is asked by residencies, so would be great if you could shed some light on why you ask it (and even speculate on why others might - your speculation would be much more informed than mine obviously). In particular, if I'm asked this question (which I have been) and I happen to mention a couple of places that are quite a bit higher on the academic competitiveness tier (however subjectively defined) than the place I'm interviewing at, are you (the interviewer) more likely to be (1) more positively inclined, since there is some additional external validation of my credentials, or (2) somewhat negatively inclined, since you figure I am more likely than you expected (before I gave out that information) to match somewhere else than your own institution even if you rank me to match? A related question in the second case above is why it should matter to PDs anyway, since in theory they should just rank candidates in the order they like them, without reference to their likelihood of ranking your institution high? Or is there some other reason. e.g. it somehow matters to PDs as to how deep down their rank list they go in order to fill, and they therefore end up making some adjustments to a candidate's ranking based on their likelihood of ranking their institution high?
Put some paragraph breaks in that and I'll have a go at it. Maybe add a little punctuation too.
 
baylor =osu =iu> loyola= uic = albany =tulane=vcu> rest of list

Don't have a great handle on the mid west programs but can assure you Einstein (Moses/weiler) is better than Albany vcu Tulane uic and Loyola. Maybe you just left it out for lack of knowledge of the program??
 
Put some paragraph breaks in that and I'll have a go at it. Maybe add a little punctuation too.

Then you'll just complain the post is too long. Your post was short, but added nothing to the discussion. Why not leave it out? Because as your uncle says you like to hear your own voice rattling in your head? Just an innocent question, one you've said of me only it wasn't a question when you said it.

From the NRMP website:
Can I ask applicants where else they are applying?

The Match Participation Agreement states that applicants are free at all times to keep confidential the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. A program director may request the names of other programs, but it is a violation of the Agreement to require applicants to disclose that information or to ask applicants how they plan to rank programs.


So yes, they can ask, but no, you cannot be compelled to answer. Which is stupid to allow them to ask in the first place. It is not information the program is entitled to and it just makes the applicant uncomfortable.

When you say, "I'd rather not discuss it" or some other thing that is vague, they can decide you're a douche and rank you lower. Or not like whatever answer you give. And how are you gonna prove to the NRMP that they violated the second part (not requiring an answer) when you allow the first part which is the question being asked in the first place?

This is the kind of one sided talking out both sides of the mouth we get in medicine that I hate.

Feel free to report being asked to the NRMP. Just cuz. Maybe someone will get ****ed by this question for reals and your report will make a case the program heckles people over it. Or they don't in which case your report hurts them not in the slightest. Or the NRMP contacts the program about these questions that deserve no answer and just decide to stop asking.
 
@FrisbeeDocIM: Interesting points and good advice - thanks for the thoughtful response.

@Crayola227: Thanks for pointing out the NRMP agreement. I agree that it would be better to not allow programs to ask in the first place. Awfully hard for an applicant to refuse to reply, when the balance of power generally sits with the program.
 
@FrisbeeDocIM: Interesting points and good advice - thanks for the thoughtful response.

@Crayola227: Thanks for pointing out the NRMP agreement. I agree that it would be better to not allow programs to ask in the first place. Awfully hard for an applicant to refuse to reply, when the balance of power generally sits with the program.

I always go back to a similar answer that I gave when I interviewed for med school and people would ask me what other programs I applied to. I'd just say that "I've applied mainly to university programs in the Northeast because I have family ties to this region, but overall, I have no true preference to where I go. I'm really open to seeing what each place has and all I want is to be in a good training environment, similar to what I'm seeing at your institution here." That usually is good enough to satisfy people, plus the little butt kissing at the end seems to help, and they drop the topic.
 
Can anyone comment on the following programs? Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

UW Boise
Spokane
Univ. of Vermont
SLU
Indiana
MUSC
USF
 
Can anyone comment on the following programs? Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

UW Boise
Spokane
Univ. of Vermont
SLU
Indiana
MUSC
USF
What would you like to know? Interviewed at Vermont, loved the people and the down to earth vibe there, chill PD and APD. However, felt like pathology would be lacking - resident said herself that it was mostly bread and butter. Majority stay at Vermont for fellowship.
 
I liked Spokane, cool for a small town, beautiful, outdoors, starting to improve the food scene there. Still small town mindset conservative to some extent (we're talking PNW hillbillies not Okies tho).

It's community, so I can't speak to things like you going on for fellowship or be the next Dean at Hopkin's.
 
What would you like to know? Interviewed at Vermont, loved the people and the down to earth vibe there, chill PD and APD. However, felt like pathology would be lacking - resident said herself that it was mostly bread and butter. Majority stay at Vermont for fellowship.


Thanks for the info. That's basically what I wanted to know, how the people were and if you liked the town. My concern is that my family is mostly on the West Coast so do you think it's possible to move after residency outside of Vermont.

I liked Spokane, cool for a small town, beautiful, outdoors, starting to improve the food scene there. Still small town mindset conservative to some extent (we're talking PNW hillbillies not Okies tho).

It's community, so I can't speak to things like you going on for fellowship or be the next Dean at Hopkin's.

I'm interested in this program mostly for location. Do you know if it's pretty easy after residency to get a position in western Washingotn (Seattle) or in Oregon?

Thanks so much.
 
It's never easy getting a position in Seattle or Portland. PNW very desirable, popular, saturated. Even for those with family ties & graduated from a local residency from what I'm told.

Location in Spokane isn't that great in that it's a small college town hours from anything major. But it's pleasant and hey, 3 hours to Seattle beats a lot of places. Weather is much nicer than Vermont snow.

Vermont is lovely as I understand it but also small town feel. How easy is it to relocate out? Dunno sorry.
 
@Crayola227 thank you so much for the info regarding match violations. I agree with you that is should be illegal to ask. Say I decided to report the program like you say, what would be the consequences for me? I read the NRMP info that said it would be in your "permanant record" (wtf), but other than that my bigger questions are 1. Would the program know it was me? and 2. Would it affect my chances of matching there if I indeed rank it?
 
@Crayola227 thank you so much for the info regarding match violations. I agree with you that is should be illegal to ask. Say I decided to report the program like you say, what would be the consequences for me? I read the NRMP info that said it would be in your "permanant record" (wtf), but other than that my bigger questions are 1. Would the program know it was me? and 2. Would it affect my chances of matching there if I indeed rank it?
Why the hell would you do that?

At pretty much every program in the country, somebody will ask that question. Most of the time it's just to start a conversation and is almost never intended in a negative way. I was asked it at more than half the places I interviewed and always gave an honest, but vague, answer, and then moved on.

Of all the things to get butt hurt about during this process, this doesn't even rank.
 
Can anyone comment on the following programs? Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

UW Boise
Spokane
Univ. of Vermont
SLU
Indiana
MUSC
USF

MUSC - Everyone I've encountered there has been polite, friendly, approachable, and on top of their crap. Very collegial environment. It isn't an academic research powerhouse like some "top tier" places, but they have good pathology and I think you'd get strong clinical training while also being happy as a resident. Charleston is a great city. Also, crazy high concentration of attractive women, if you happen to be a single guy.
 
@Crayola227 thank you so much for the info regarding match violations. I agree with you that is should be illegal to ask. Say I decided to report the program like you say, what would be the consequences for me? I read the NRMP info that said it would be in your "permanant record" (wtf), but other than that my bigger questions are 1. Would the program know it was me? and 2. Would it affect my chances of matching there if I indeed rank it?
Ah hey no sorry don't make waves.

Ah geez, no, don't make waves. If there was some super secret anonymous way to give feedback to basically say "NRMP programs are asking me where I interviewed and me no likey" or some programs had some survey monkey to give feedback about their interview day it might be one thing to say something it's fair criticism as far as I'm concerned,

otherwise rule is
NEVER COMPLAIN
especially if they might identify you

I am soon nearing the day when I write an expose on the profession but alas today is not that day. I too am hunkered down in fear except for SDN
 
Couple questions.

(1) What volume on wards do you feel is best to optimize learning from patients / having time to read on patients? At different programs, have seen an inpatient team seeing anywhere from as low as 30 to as many as 100 patients over the course of a week (between their new admits and existing census). The former seems to me to be too little, the latter too much.

(2) Applying med/peds, but thought I'd get input on the medicine side in considering programs. Interested as of now in eventually doing h/o or pulm/cc as a clinician educator (formal training in education is a big plus). Like to have a cordial relationship between staff / residents / students. Dislike pretentiousness. Would prefer a varied patient population. Definite geographic preference for the southeast, but not firm in that regard if a non-southeast program seemed to be a better fit. Very tentative top few on my list pre-interview are uab, vandy, yale, penn, duke, unc. Location wise, Birmingham = Nashville > Chapel Hill = Durham > Philly > New Haven. Yale & Penn both have clinician educator tracks, UAB has a month long educator elective, UNC offers elective months where something similar could possibly be arranged.

I'm rambling. I guess I'm just looking for some insight in comparing these programs and finding where I'll get the best combination of being happy, getting strong training, and setting myself up for fellowship if that's the path I go down
 
Couple questions.

(1) What volume on wards do you feel is best to optimize learning from patients / having time to read on patients? At different programs, have seen an inpatient team seeing anywhere from as low as 30 to as many as 100 patients over the course of a week (between their new admits and existing census). The former seems to me to be too little, the latter too much.

(2) Applying med/peds, but thought I'd get input on the medicine side in considering programs. Interested as of now in eventually doing h/o or pulm/cc as a clinician educator (formal training in education is a big plus). Like to have a cordial relationship between staff / residents / students. Dislike pretentiousness. Would prefer a varied patient population. Definite geographic preference for the southeast, but not firm in that regard if a non-southeast program seemed to be a better fit. Very tentative top few on my list pre-interview are uab, vandy, yale, penn, duke, unc. Location wise, Birmingham = Nashville > Chapel Hill = Durham > Philly > New Haven. Yale & Penn both have clinician educator tracks, UAB has a month long educator elective, UNC offers elective months where something similar could possibly be arranged.

I'm rambling. I guess I'm just looking for some insight in comparing these programs and finding where I'll get the best combination of being happy, getting strong training, and setting myself up for fellowship if that's the path I go down

I know you prefer the southeast, but as a fellow med-peds applicant, gotta tell you that Philly is AWESOME.
 
UTSW vs U Michigan

Thoughts? Down the road, I want to be a pulm/crit clinician-researcher at a large academic center. Any ideas as to which program might provide the most fellowship opportunities? I have my eyes on UPMC for fellowship.

I don't care about the weather differences.

UMich is friendlier and more well-rounded (more clinic, professional development curriculum). UTSW is intense (more inpatient months, higher caps). UMich offers 4-6 weeks of protected research time; UTSW offers 8-12 weeks.
 
Last edited:
Would love some feedback.

I need to cancel either University of New Mexico or Medical College of Wisconsin. Geographically I couldn't care less where I live, I am more interested in the programs themselves.

Thanks.
 
Why the hell would you do that?

At pretty much every program in the country, somebody will ask that question. Most of the time it's just to start a conversation and is almost never intended in a negative way. I was asked it at more than half the places I interviewed and always gave an honest, but vague, answer, and then moved on.

Of all the things to get butt hurt about during this process, this doesn't even rank.


I am officially "responsible" for every question that my interviewers ask. Legal, illegal, crazy, useless, it's all on me.

I don't know of any program (IM) that pushes the boundary on these questions intentionally. I absolutely have interviewers who get carried away by whatever is floating through their brain and end up asking about children, marriage status, etc. etc. These questions just happen when you're talking to someone and not being super mindful. We do A LOT of interviewing and even if I just had my pros do ALL the interviews (wish I could), there would still be mistakes.

If you're interviewing at a program that has multiple instances of "making you feel uncomfortable", red flag it.

If it happens once, let it go. Just wait til you get to PGY1 and patients start pushing you for dilaudid. Casual questions about things people normally talk about will seem like penny-ante BS.
 
I am officially "responsible" for every question that my interviewers ask. Legal, illegal, crazy, useless, it's all on me.

I don't know of any program (IM) that pushes the boundary on these questions intentionally. I absolutely have interviewers who get carried away by whatever is floating through their brain and end up asking about children, marriage status, etc. etc. These questions just happen when you're talking to someone and not being super mindful. We do A LOT of interviewing and even if I just had my pros do ALL the interviews (wish I could), there would still be mistakes.

If you're interviewing at a program that has multiple instances of "making you feel uncomfortable", red flag it.

If it happens once, let it go. Just wait til you get to PGY1 and patients start pushing you for dilaudid. Casual questions about things people normally talk about will seem like penny-ante BS.

My fave post I have ever seen by admin about questions being asked at an interview.

That last bit is pretty cute too.
 
Would love some feedback.

I need to cancel either University of New Mexico or Medical College of Wisconsin. Geographically I couldn't care less where I live, I am more interested in the programs themselves.

Thanks.

I liked both. UNM is more friendly and laid back and one of my fave programs ever, mostly for program/area cultural and geographical reasons. I'm partial to MCW but not quite as much just for cultural reasons, however my feeling is that the hospital has more money which usually equals less resident headache. Lack of money never made a doc's job any easier. The weather in Milwaukee is total crap compared to NM if you don't love humidity and icy winters. As far as which is educationally superior (if that is really a thing, all I worry about is being board certified) or for fellowship, no clue, my feeling is that it's hard to compare when UNM is an average-ish academic university program and the other an above average community hospital. Uni generally considered >>> community but when you are lower in one class and higher in the other, does that mean you meet in the middle eventually? Like is a B- in high school US history equivalent to a C+ in AP?

I wanted you to understand why I say that for me it would be UNM hands down, but our values may differ so that is what my opinion based on.

TLDR:
On the basis of everything un-academic do I proclaim my love for UNM because I can't tell how much of a difference in outcome (being an un-ambitious but solid attending) there is between all the programs that make one board eligible, so I have to go by things like how much the residents sleep and hug and hours of sunshine to pick between programs
I like MCW too
 
UTSW vs U Michigan

Thoughts? Down the road, I want to be a pulm/crit clinician-researcher at a large academic center. Any ideas as to which program might provide the most fellowship opportunities? I have my eyes on UPMC for fellowship.

I don't care about the weather differences.

UMich is friendlier and more well-rounded (more clinic, professional development curriculum). UTSW is intense (more inpatient months, higher caps). UMich offers 4-6 weeks of protected research time; UTSW offers 8-12 weeks.

haha, would you rather be really cold during a significant amount of the year or really hot?

I will say that I don't think there has been anyone recent going to Pitt for pulm/crit from Parkland
 
I liked both. UNM is more friendly and laid back and one of my fave programs ever, mostly for program/area cultural and geographical reasons. I'm partial to MCW but not quite as much just for cultural reasons, however my feeling is that the hospital has more money which usually equals less resident headache. Lack of money never made a doc's job any easier. The weather in Milwaukee is total crap compared to NM if you don't love humidity and icy winters. As far as which is educationally superior (if that is really a thing, all I worry about is being board certified) or for fellowship, no clue, my feeling is that it's hard to compare when UNM is an average-ish academic university program and the other an above average community hospital. Uni generally considered >>> community but when you are lower in one class and higher in the other, does that mean you meet in the middle eventually? Like is a B- in high school US history equivalent to a C+ in AP?
It's not really accurate to call MCW a "community hospital." Although you won't get the research pedigree that you might in a proper university setting where there's a full graduate college across the street, the Medical College of Wisconsin is a medical campus built around a medical school, and therefore should be classified as an academic program, albeit a lower-tier one as far as the prestige rankings are concerned. Academicians in the Midwest definitely know about it and respect it as such.

I don't know enough about UNM to give the original poster any direct comparisons, but I'd agree with the thought that MCW's hospital has a fair amount of money and is therefore less dependent on residents. Pay is about as good as you'll get anywhere in the country, especially relative to cost of living. The culture runs pretty friendly, very Midwest-nice. A few things to be cautius about: one, if it matters to you, do be aware that the main campus is not in Milwaukee proper but in the western suburbs, so your access to the nice city nearby will be more limited unless you commute (and the VA is a nice drive away for your months there). Also a heads up that there are a few strange things going on there on a higher up level - there's been a faculty exodus from a few departments including Cards and Neuro. The IM folks want to be more academically oriented, but some elements in the administration want to ship them off to new satellite medical schools, and others want to acquire more local hospitals and become a regional network. Don't know whether any of that would trickle down to you as a resident, though. A few strengths that jump out at MCW include the leadership in the IM program proper (it's one of two or three places in the area where people will tell you that they picked it because of the PD), Immunology, and Neph, especially transplant-Neph.
 
I've heard from a few sources that residents at University of Colorado residents are overworked and unhappy... can anyone comment on this? Really didn't get to talk to residents at all on interview day - lunch with the residents was during noon conference (no opportunity to ask questions) and only 1 chief resident led a group of >30 applicants on tour. Low pre-interview dinner turnout as well.
 
I've heard from a few sources that residents at University of Colorado residents are overworked and unhappy... can anyone comment on this? Really didn't get to talk to residents at all on interview day - lunch with the residents was during noon conference (no opportunity to ask questions) and only 1 chief resident led a group of >30 applicants on tour. Low pre-interview dinner turnout as well.

sounds like the answer is staring you in the face
 
It's not really accurate to call MCW a "community hospital." Although you won't get the research pedigree that you might in a proper university setting where there's a full graduate college across the street, the Medical College of Wisconsin is a medical campus built around a medical school, and therefore should be classified as an academic program, albeit a lower-tier one as far as the prestige rankings are concerned. Academicians in the Midwest definitely know about it and respect it as such.

I don't know enough about UNM to give the original poster any direct comparisons, but I'd agree with the thought that MCW's hospital has a fair amount of money and is therefore less dependent on residents. Pay is about as good as you'll get anywhere in the country, especially relative to cost of living. The culture runs pretty friendly, very Midwest-nice. A few things to be cautius about: one, if it matters to you, do be aware that the main campus is not in Milwaukee proper but in the western suburbs, so your access to the nice city nearby will be more limited unless you commute (and the VA is a nice drive away for your months there). Also a heads up that there are a few strange things going on there on a higher up level - there's been a faculty exodus from a few departments including Cards and Neuro. The IM folks want to be more academically oriented, but some elements in the administration want to ship them off to new satellite medical schools, and others want to acquire more local hospitals and become a regional network. Don't know whether any of that would trickle down to you as a resident, though. A few strengths that jump out at MCW include the leadership in the IM program proper (it's one of two or three places in the area where people will tell you that they picked it because of the PD), Immunology, and Neph, especially transplant-Neph.

I stand corrected.

What I should have said, was as I believe it is a private academic institution, not public, which can change things as far as patient demographic seen and insurance networks, and therefore pathology seen.

Is that accurate?
 
I stand corrected.

What I should have said, was as I believe it is a private academic institution, not public, which can change things as far as patient demographic seen and insurance networks, and therefore pathology seen.

Is that accurate?
Accurate, and a good way to put it.
 
sounds like the answer is staring you in the face
Meh, not necessarily. Resident attendance to daytime activities like lunch is variable and somewhat influenced by where you are in the rotation schedule- if everyone just switched services that day, they won't show up to anything. When I interviewed a couple years ago at UC Denver they seemed pretty happy but I heard rumors saying they were overworked. But, one friend of mine who did an away there spoke highly of it, and another friend of mine has a sister who's an intern there now. Has golden weekends all the time. Word on the street is that PGY-2 year is harder/busier than intern year. You will work basically the same amount of hours wherever you go . Rank based on how you think you'd fit in.
 
Question about Wisconsin: I know that this program has a great rep, but why does its fellowship match over the past five years seem lackluster? Most stay at Wisconsin and few go to big-name places for competitive fellowships (cards, GI, pulm/CC, heme/onc).
 
Question about Wisconsin: I know that this program has a great rep, but why does its fellowship match over the past five years seem lackluster? Most stay at Wisconsin and few go to big-name places for competitive fellowships (cards, GI, pulm/CC, heme/onc).

From what I gathered on my interview day there, it seems that people really love UWisconsin and prefer to stay there. The PD is amazing and has so many connections given that he's been the PD for over 20 years, so if you do want to go somewhere else, it's definitely possible.
 
UTSW vs U Michigan

Thoughts? Down the road, I want to be a pulm/crit clinician-researcher at a large academic center. Any ideas as to which program might provide the most fellowship opportunities? I have my eyes on UPMC for fellowship.

I don't care about the weather differences.

UMich is friendlier and more well-rounded (more clinic, professional development curriculum). UTSW is intense (more inpatient months, higher caps). UMich offers 4-6 weeks of protected research time; UTSW offers 8-12 weeks.

FWIW, it seems like UPMC fellowships in general draw a high number of UMich trainees. I would say there are fewer UTSW alumns, which probably has something to do with regional affectation...
 
UTSW vs U Michigan

Thoughts? Down the road, I want to be a pulm/crit clinician-researcher at a large academic center. Any ideas as to which program might provide the most fellowship opportunities? I have my eyes on UPMC for fellowship.

I don't care about the weather differences.

UMich is friendlier and more well-rounded (more clinic, professional development curriculum). UTSW is intense (more inpatient months, higher caps). UMich offers 4-6 weeks of protected research time; UTSW offers 8-12 weeks.
The (in)ability to land the fellowship of your choice coming from either UMich or UTSW will be 100% on you, not the program.
 
I've heard from a few sources that residents at University of Colorado residents are overworked and unhappy... can anyone comment on this? Really didn't get to talk to residents at all on interview day - lunch with the residents was during noon conference (no opportunity to ask questions) and only 1 chief resident led a group of >30 applicants on tour. Low pre-interview dinner turnout as well.

i thought the program was fairly impressive but those were my same feelings as well. not sure what to make of the program really; not sure what to make of any program really. not really getting a bad vibe from most places but no program has really stuck out and said "this is the one".

whole process is really frustrating.

anyways OT; anyone have any insight on OSU, especially someone aiming for cards/heme-onc? seems like a fairly strong program for both with dedicated units to each but again, low turnout on pre-interview dinner and interview day by residents. training seems pretty intense but their fellowship match list is pretty good IMO.
 
A follow-up question: between NYU and Wisconsin, is there one clearly better than the other? I'm thinking GI and PCCM. It looks like NYU has weak GI placement. The programs were so different when I went and I'm still trying to process the Bellevue experience. FYI I have family ties to NYC but go to med school in the midwest.

I am unhelpfully not answering your question, but just wanted to chime in that I was surprised to love both of these programs, and as oddly disparate as their settings and strengths are, I think these may be eventual contenders for the tops of my rank list. Would appreciate any other input/sounding boards/fellow lurkers/"there there's" at the befuddlement evoked by this process.
 
Last edited:
A follow-up question: between NYU and Wisconsin, is there one clearly better than the other? I'm thinking GI and PCCM. It looks like NYU has weak GI placement. The programs were so different when I went and I'm still trying to process the Bellevue experience. FYI I have family ties to NYC but go to med school in the midwest.
Just looking at fellowship match lists, for GI over past 5yrs, NYU has placed into BIDMC, Penn, Hopkins, and Columbia. Wisconsin has placed 1 into UChicago, otherwise best placement is Wisconsin. For pulm/crit over past 5 yrs, NYU has placed into Brigham, Columbia, Duke, MGH, Stanford, UCLA, Colorado, University of Washington. Wisconsin has placed 6 people total, best programs being Northwestern and Mayo.
I also loved Wisconsin's program and found Dr. Vogelman phenomenal, but am very reluctant to rank it highly given its seemingly limited fellowship match.
 
So I'm assuming it's a very bad idea to jump into a small community program only in its second year of operation regardless of awesome locations, how much I clicked with the aPD and interns, ability to use a huge clinical patient database for research purposes, and promises of collaborations with all of the other state university programs, huh?

For the record, my interviews range from community to "top tier" academic programs. I'm interested in fellowship options (especially hem/onc, critical care, and ID) and clinical research. I don't want to do something "stupid" that would harm my future career... but I've been consistently surprised at how little difference there seems to be between programs. Am I getting blinded by a very well done dog and pony show, or is the difference really that minimal?
 
Anyone have thoughts between Brown vs Dartmouth? I'm considering dropping my Dartmouth interview. I'm interested in Heme-Onc. Honestly a lot of my reasoning is b/c of location... it will kind of cost a fortune to travel to Lebanon. Am I being stupid for dropping the interview?
 
Anyone have any input on these programs? I am undecided about fellowship at this point but could definitely see myself doing one down the road. Also curious to others' opinions on how they would rank these programs based on prestige/how good of IM programs they are. I am especially confused about Cleveland Clinic and Dartmouth - I have tried doing my research, on SDN included, but am having a hard time gaging whether these are good programs or not. Thank you!

-Mayo in Rochester
-Rush
-UPMC
-U of Iowa
-Baylor
-Loyola
-Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland
-Dartmouth
-U of Minnesota
-U of Cincinnati
-U of Indiana

Would personally put UPMC and Mayo at the top of that list.
 
Would personally put UPMC and Mayo at the top of that list.

couldn't pay me enough to drink the mayo koolaid personally, but then again, i pretty much have no desire to do anymore research.

4+4 is ridiculously chill and i dunno about your clinical training coming out of a system like that.....
 
Top