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I think Omaha is probably bigger than Lexington. Lexington is a college town.
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Was wondering any insights into Loyola in Chicago? Liked the interview day and the people but seemed like the residents are overworked? Also, most of the people seemed to stay in house for fellowship, not sure if this was by choice or b/c of limitations in matching? Finally, any thoughts on their heme-onc program? Thank you!
Interview day was well run. Heard rumors and whispers of malignancy, even from residents at other programs who were stritch med students in the past. Not sure about h/o but cards and pulmcc seem to be their strong suit
One of my co-fellows was on Hem/Onc faculty there. If it had been practical, it would have been for about 15 minutes rather than the 3 years she stayed. I have no other useful information about the program.
Could anyone provide any insight on UF Gainesville's program? Have heard rumors of "malignancy" which I'm not sure are founded or not, would like to see if anyone has heard similar rumblings on the trail. Thanks!
Hi everyone, I'm an OMS3 at a "well known" DO school with plans to apply to IM programs for Match 2018. My initial plan was to apply to NE programs but my girlfriend is starting at a PA program in Ft. Lauderdale, FL this fall so I'm looking into applying to programs in her area and possibly doing some audition rotations.
About me: 560s COMLEX 1, not so great class rank, presented 2 case presentations at a handful of conferences, also a second author on a published case presentation, passing/mediocre pre-clinical grades, all honors clinical grades so far with great evaluations from my preceptors.
Programs I am interested in:
1. Broward Health Medical Center
2. Cleveland Clinic Florida
3. Florida Atlantic University
4. University of Miami/Palm Beach Regional Campus
5. University of Miami/Holy Cross
6. Aventura Hospital
Questions:
1. Does anyone know if any of these are unfriendly to DO candidates?
2. I didn't take Step 1, I know this puts me at a disadvantage. IM chair at my university said to take Step 2 and it shouldn't be an issue. Is there truth to this?
3. On VSAS it looks like UM doesn't accept DO students for elective rotations, anyone hear anything different? I've emailed FAU to ask about doing a rotation there, no response so far.
4. I have 3 audition months to book before match. Any suggestions on programs to avoid or definitely apply to?
Thank you for your help, I've searched and searched for information but having a hard time. I've also put out a few calls and emails but have only heard back from CCF.
About me: 560s COMLEX 1, not so great class rank, presented 2 case presentations at a handful of conferences, also a second author on a published case presentation, passing/mediocre pre-clinical grades, all honors clinical grades so far with great evaluations from my preceptors.
Programs I am interested in:
1. Broward Health Medical Center
2. Cleveland Clinic Florida
3. Florida Atlantic University
4. University of Miami/Palm Beach Regional Campus
5. University of Miami/Holy Cross
6. Aventura Hospital
Questions:
1. Does anyone know if any of these are unfriendly to DO candidates?
2. I didn't take Step 1, I know this puts me at a disadvantage. IM chair at my university said to take Step 2 and it shouldn't be an issue. Is there truth to this?
3. On VSAS it looks like UM doesn't accept DO students for elective rotations, anyone hear anything different? I've emailed FAU to ask about doing a rotation there, no response so far.
4. I have 3 audition months to book before match. Any suggestions on programs to avoid or definitely apply to?
Thank you for your help, I've searched and searched for information but having a hard time. I've also put out a few calls and emails but have only heard back from CCF.
Really quick question to anyone who knows. Where do you do your intern months at U of Chicago? Is it at the Center for Care & Discovery or Bernard Mitchell? I say B Mitchell, but a friend thinks it's Center for Care & Discovery. Thanks!
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First 2 programs are def doable as DO. I have a friend in that program. Not sure about miami or fau. Would look at their rosters to see if they have any DOs
Thank you, that's good to know. I can't locate a roster for FAU. Holy Cross/UM has only MDs on their page, lots of FMG/IMG, can only find chief residents for UM/PBRC. Will keep searching. Thank you again.
Memorial hospital will be opening an IM residency program in 2018 and that's one of the core rotation sites for NSU students. Aventura is listed as one of the programs for NSU residencies in their website. Broward is one of the top DO IM programs in FL (along with Palmetto) and Cleveland usually takes up to 3 DO students ( usually from NSU). All these hospitals are also core rotation facilities for NSU
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It used to be a mix of Mitchell and the CCD - MICU and HONC were over in the CCD and pretty much everything else was in mitchell. In 2016 they moved essentially the entire hospital over to the CCD, so I think almost all (if not 100%) of your rotations will be in the CCD.
I think all of them are doable for DO... Many of these programs have a lot of IMG.
All of them except Cleveland are on my list... But I am a MD student with not a stellar step1 score
All of them except Cleveland are on my list... But I am a MD student with not a stellar step1 score
Because Gainesville is in north FL... and his girlfriend will start a PA program in Ft Lauderdale... UF Gainesville might be a tough sell for a DO with no USMLE step1 score
In case anyone is reading this in the future with just COMLEX: I contacted UF-Jacksonville before studying a map of FL and they are good with COMLEX, 550+ is what they like to see. I did not contact UF-Gainesville, not sure if there is a huge difference between the programs. UF-Gainesville has a handful of DOs in their class.
Florida is a very long state, Gainesville to Palm Beach was about a 4 hour drive for me and Ft. Lauderdale is even further away. Would be a pain in the butt working resident hours and making that kind of drive on a regular basis. That being said it probably would be better for OP in the long run to keep more options open and I know UF takes a decent share of DO students.
Thanks! Adding Memorial and Palmetto to my list.
Not familiar with this program TBH... Because it's CCF, I thought it is as competitive as UMiami main program, which is not also on my list of programs...
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That's actually great to hear.
Larkin and Larkin Palm Springs are two more additional DO IM programs. Larkin Palm Springs will be starting this year. Larkin is a small hospital with lots of residencies and fellowships and the IM program did well in the match last year. Mount Sinai used to have a DO residency and will take 5 residents, they now go through the acgme match and will take DOs as well ( you'll have to rotate there to have a change).
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Out of curiosity, what is left in Mitchell then now? I know that the plan is to turn it into a Cancer Center. Has that renovation and process started?
All of the listed programs are accessible for DOs. They only match through NRMP though ("md" match). Palmetto as of now is an AOA match only.
Broward is essentially becoming FIU's IM program, as the program director robert Levine is FIU faculty. nova is gradually losing student rotation slots as they will not pay for them. They are nrmp match only and possibly require step 1 to rotate there. They would be ok with 560 comlex if you got a similar score on comlex 2, i think. There are plenty of attendings familiar with comlex still.
The UM programs listed are basically equally competitive with CC Florida. They are not as competitive as U miami main hospital, Jackson memorial. Jackson is kind of a crapshoot for DOs in IM, i have friends who rotated there, got excellent evaluations, have 240+ step 1, and did not get interview invite. but I also know DO students who got interviews with scores that were not impressive. They also have DOs on faculty there. Weird.
Mt sinai is very accessible for DOs, they just merged the two IM programs.
Broward is essentially becoming FIU's IM program, as the program director robert Levine is FIU faculty. nova is gradually losing student rotation slots as they will not pay for them. They are nrmp match only and possibly require step 1 to rotate there. They would be ok with 560 comlex if you got a similar score on comlex 2, i think. There are plenty of attendings familiar with comlex still.
The UM programs listed are basically equally competitive with CC Florida. They are not as competitive as U miami main hospital, Jackson memorial. Jackson is kind of a crapshoot for DOs in IM, i have friends who rotated there, got excellent evaluations, have 240+ step 1, and did not get interview invite. but I also know DO students who got interviews with scores that were not impressive. They also have DOs on faculty there. Weird.
Mt sinai is very accessible for DOs, they just merged the two IM programs.
let me answer your questions though:
1. Does anyone know if any of these are unfriendly to DO candidates?
all are friendly
2. I didn't take Step 1, I know this puts me at a disadvantage. IM chair at my university said to take Step 2 and it shouldn't be an issue. Is there truth to this?
I called all these programs (except broward, which used to be only DO but now takes MDs) and they said "step 2 not required but recommended." that leaves you in a tough spot. no good answer.
3. On VSAS it looks like UM doesn't accept DO students for elective rotations, anyone hear anything different? I've emailed FAU to ask about doing a rotation there, no response so far.
FAU does accept students for rotations, my classmate rotated there. Keep calling. Jackson memorial/U Miami also accepts DOs for rotations, but it can be a pain. Call early and often and you can get a sub I.
4. I have 3 audition months to book before match. Any suggestions on programs to avoid or definitely apply to?
The following is a summary of either my experiences or experiences of people I know who spent at least a month there:
Broward Health Medical Center- big public county hospital. all the exotic pathology a budding internist dreams of. program that is switching from DO to MD and feeling some growing pains, you could say. Last year ALL the IM attendings quit at once for about a month. I heard they were trying to get a pay raise and felt disrespected by the hospital administration. The CEO committed suicide last year. The year before there was a big kickback scandal after an orthopedic surgeon went full whistleblower. I don't know where that situation stands or how it affects the IM program. Gov. Rick Scott (of HCA medicare fraud infamy) is pissing off a lot of people in the hospital who genuinely care about patients.
Cleveland Clinic Florida- 100% full time faculty. tiny hospital, 150 beds and expanding to 250-300 or so. multiple in-house fellowships. Everyone I know who rotated there loved it.
Florida Atlantic University- I dont know anything except its a new MD program and they accept DOs.
University of Miami/Palm Beach Regional Campus- program operated by U Miami but in an HCA hospital. I dont know much about quality of fellowships but they have good names. (sorry. not going to front like I know fellowship programs well enough to evaluate a match list)
University of Miami/Holy Cross- dont know anyone here but one person, who interviewed and loved it
Aventura Hospital- mixed reviews. HCA hospital. They are trying to set up a program to get their IM residents an MBA during residency, which is very interesting but also raises a lot of questions about how to manage the time.
Memorial hospital- the students I know who rotated there liked it. If they set up a residency, it would be a brand new program.
Palmetto- DO only but trying to switch. I know students who work hard and said they were really challenged.
Mt sinai- interesting history here, opened in 1950s for jewish MDs who needed miami residency, so its been around forever. now undergoing a huge expansion but its all a massive beautiful surgical tower overlooking Biscayne Bay and a new emergency department. recently combined MD and DO programs. I rotated here and loved it. Very education focused. Faculty are like 75% U Miami residency graduates. Close relationship to Jackson. Program director and both asst. program directors are Infectious Disease and I thought they were awesome.
Larkin- heard this place is garbage and not worth anyone's time
1. Does anyone know if any of these are unfriendly to DO candidates?
all are friendly
2. I didn't take Step 1, I know this puts me at a disadvantage. IM chair at my university said to take Step 2 and it shouldn't be an issue. Is there truth to this?
I called all these programs (except broward, which used to be only DO but now takes MDs) and they said "step 2 not required but recommended." that leaves you in a tough spot. no good answer.
3. On VSAS it looks like UM doesn't accept DO students for elective rotations, anyone hear anything different? I've emailed FAU to ask about doing a rotation there, no response so far.
FAU does accept students for rotations, my classmate rotated there. Keep calling. Jackson memorial/U Miami also accepts DOs for rotations, but it can be a pain. Call early and often and you can get a sub I.
4. I have 3 audition months to book before match. Any suggestions on programs to avoid or definitely apply to?
The following is a summary of either my experiences or experiences of people I know who spent at least a month there:
Broward Health Medical Center- big public county hospital. all the exotic pathology a budding internist dreams of. program that is switching from DO to MD and feeling some growing pains, you could say. Last year ALL the IM attendings quit at once for about a month. I heard they were trying to get a pay raise and felt disrespected by the hospital administration. The CEO committed suicide last year. The year before there was a big kickback scandal after an orthopedic surgeon went full whistleblower. I don't know where that situation stands or how it affects the IM program. Gov. Rick Scott (of HCA medicare fraud infamy) is pissing off a lot of people in the hospital who genuinely care about patients.
Cleveland Clinic Florida- 100% full time faculty. tiny hospital, 150 beds and expanding to 250-300 or so. multiple in-house fellowships. Everyone I know who rotated there loved it.
Florida Atlantic University- I dont know anything except its a new MD program and they accept DOs.
University of Miami/Palm Beach Regional Campus- program operated by U Miami but in an HCA hospital. I dont know much about quality of fellowships but they have good names. (sorry. not going to front like I know fellowship programs well enough to evaluate a match list)
University of Miami/Holy Cross- dont know anyone here but one person, who interviewed and loved it
Aventura Hospital- mixed reviews. HCA hospital. They are trying to set up a program to get their IM residents an MBA during residency, which is very interesting but also raises a lot of questions about how to manage the time.
Memorial hospital- the students I know who rotated there liked it. If they set up a residency, it would be a brand new program.
Palmetto- DO only but trying to switch. I know students who work hard and said they were really challenged.
Mt sinai- interesting history here, opened in 1950s for jewish MDs who needed miami residency, so its been around forever. now undergoing a huge expansion but its all a massive beautiful surgical tower overlooking Biscayne Bay and a new emergency department. recently combined MD and DO programs. I rotated here and loved it. Very education focused. Faculty are like 75% U Miami residency graduates. Close relationship to Jackson. Program director and both asst. program directors are Infectious Disease and I thought they were awesome.
Larkin- heard this place is garbage and not worth anyone's time
This was very helpful! Thank you!
There is in fact a huge difference bw UF-Gainz and UF-Jax. Apples to oranges.
Usf has a ton of DOS too... It's not too competitive to get into...
University of South FL is technically not located in south FL... It's just a misnomer.
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It depends if you want to live with your SO in ft lauderdale or if you'd be ok with them driving to see you on a friday evening when they get out and going back on sunday night. USF/UF are in easy driving range, <4.5 hrs. UCF is about 3 hrs but is a new program. there are 20+ community IM programs within weekend driving distance of ft lauderdale; all but two of them (orlando health, kendall regional) accept DOs and assuming OP has no red flags, they would get interview invites to a decent number.
All in all, DOs do not have issues matching anywhere in florida. only your boards/luck hold you back.
All in all, DOs do not have issues matching anywhere in florida. only your boards/luck hold you back.
Does anyone have contact information for PD or any of the assistant directors at Texas Scott and White program? The secretary has been quite hard to contact, and the residents do not respond to my email. If I am going to rank them very high I sure would like to know some more about the program.
I would appreciate it. Thank you.
I would appreciate it. Thank you.
I can't comment on Jefferson, as everyone I know who went there did so a long time ago. But, most of the folks that I know in UR's IM program were happy with their experience. (And AFAIK, the match list was decent)
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I seem to have misplaced my notes on WashU, anyone remember what the call schedule was like for interns and residents? Was it night float or q4 30 hour call? Thank you.
Cedars: do interns admit during night float?
My impression is that a daytime wards team consists of two interns and two juniors/seniors. Q4, one of the intern/resident pairs will do all of the daytime admissions for that team, and the other pair will do all of the nighttime admissions. The night float covers the patients on the teams that are not admitting that night, and do not do any admissions themselves.
Edit: I'm not a resident there. This is how understood their system from my interview day.
Thanks. So sounds like interns do take overnight call, from what you remember? Completely forgot everything about this program.
Yup! So each team is on overnight call q4, at which point one of the two interns on the team stays overnight. That means interns are on overnight call q8 on average during wards months. The intern that's staying overnight doesn't have to come in until it's their turn to start admitting, so they don't run afoul of the 16 hour cap this way (although that caps getting lifted now?)
I've been looking through the forum history and have been unable to find any current information regarding Florida IM programs such as Cleveland Clinic in Weston, Jackson Memorial Hospital (UM) and Mount Sinai in Miami. I interviewed at all three and I'm trying to decide which to to rank highest. Anyone have any insight to these programs?
I interviewed here for prelim and I like it. The location is not so bad: not only is it close to the Bay Area, but it's also close to major national parks. It's very easy to go for a hike even if you have one day off a week. The people there all seem really nice. The attend physicians seemed friendly and caring. The cost of living is low. I think the faculty lounge is open to residents with free food. There's also a gym that's available to residents on site.
Everything I have heard about Jackson is that they still have serious work to do in terms of reducing scut. To be honest this ranking sounds like the product of counting DOs and IMGs on house staff rather than having experience with them or their graduates.
what makes CCF too small of a training site? serious question. the total number of beds? the interns almost always have 8-10 patients. The program administrators actively take patients off the residents' census if they're stuck with a social issue, and give patients with real problems to the residents. The hospital has a huge variety of services. Do you know of any specific medical problems they don't get the opportunity to see?
AOA Match is out. I was surprised to see Palmetto having 8 IM spots open(8/18), they always do well (18/18 in 2015 and prior years and 16/18 last year). On the other hand, programs like Wellington and Manatee who usually match poorly (2/6 and 2-6/12 respectively) did well and matched all their spots; additionally, Manatee reduced their spots from 12 to 9. Larkin did well last yr (5/6) but not this time around (3/7) and the new Larkin Palm Spring filled all their spots (4/4). Broward and Mount Sinai are now ACGME so I don't know if it contributed to the current match results.
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I was surprised to see this old thread bumped and wanted to anonymously weigh in as a fairly recent grad of the program. There's a number of pluses and minuses:
Plus:
-Tons of pathology is right. CRMC is the biggest hospital in the surrounding 5-6 counties and you'll see all kinds of stuff you imagined only ever reading about in a textbook. Rare cancers, late stage AIDS, whatever.
-Ever-increasing # of fellowships in house, rare for a more community program. They're up to cards, GI, pulm, ID, heme/onc, sleep, and palliative.
-Residents get along great, very few interpersonal problems. Most of us make friends for life, still keep in touch with our old prelims years later, etc.
-Free food at CRMC is a major plus. The two doctors lounges between them have hot breakfast/lunch M-F, snacks available pretty much 24/7, and if you're on call overnight or working the weekend you get $21 you can spend in the cafeteria or coffeeshop
-Lots of elective time as an intern, like 3-3.5 months. It's a lot more than most programs I interviewed at.
+/-
-Lots of Spanish speaking patients, especially if your continuity clinic is at CRMC.
-Quite procedure heavy for an IM program- great if you are interested, but not so great if you never want to do any. There's requirements for minimum number of line/LP/thora/para/art line/pap smear that most people exceed a fair bit.
-The schedule is variable and people either like it or they don't. The program directors tweak it every year based on resident feedback, but there's no way to make everyone happy. There's a minimal # of 28 hour shifts at the VA (something like 12 total split between your PGY2 and 3 years depending on your exact schedule) and otherwise there's night float but a pretty manageable amount: only 2 weeks total as an intern these recent years, something like 6 or 7 weeks each year as a PGY2 and 3.
-The PGY2/3 have a pseudo X+Y schedule, interns have a traditional clinical schedule.
-Fresno as a city is cheap and is only ~3 hours from SF or LA, within 2 hrs of the coast or mountains.
Minus:
-No food at the VA. There's a fridge with some sandwiches if you're on call, but that's about it. From what I hear, that's fairly typical for a VA though
-You're very busy. Caps are always set at 20 patients per team, and you'll typically hit them on call days q4 at CRMC and q3 at the VA.
-Research is not as big a focus as the major academic programs if that's your thing.
I never used the errand service discussed above, so I can't comment on it. I also was never accused of using drugs (and never heard of any residents being accused of that) so I can't speak to that either. What I can say is that the program will bend over backwards to try to work with any struggling residents. Most of the residents are DO/IMG/FMG, but there's a few US grads each year and I'd say one of the major reasons for that balance is really geography. I personally like Fresno, but it doesn't have the most amazing reputation amongst CA cities.
In addition, I can say that prelims and categoricals are treated completely identically, other than the fact that prelims probably are less expected to do procedures if they don't want to (the anesthesia prelims always did, the derm prelims not so much). Prelims even do a full IM continuity clinic for their year, unlike a lot of programs I've heard of.
Plus:
-Tons of pathology is right. CRMC is the biggest hospital in the surrounding 5-6 counties and you'll see all kinds of stuff you imagined only ever reading about in a textbook. Rare cancers, late stage AIDS, whatever.
-Ever-increasing # of fellowships in house, rare for a more community program. They're up to cards, GI, pulm, ID, heme/onc, sleep, and palliative.
-Residents get along great, very few interpersonal problems. Most of us make friends for life, still keep in touch with our old prelims years later, etc.
-Free food at CRMC is a major plus. The two doctors lounges between them have hot breakfast/lunch M-F, snacks available pretty much 24/7, and if you're on call overnight or working the weekend you get $21 you can spend in the cafeteria or coffeeshop
-Lots of elective time as an intern, like 3-3.5 months. It's a lot more than most programs I interviewed at.
+/-
-Lots of Spanish speaking patients, especially if your continuity clinic is at CRMC.
-Quite procedure heavy for an IM program- great if you are interested, but not so great if you never want to do any. There's requirements for minimum number of line/LP/thora/para/art line/pap smear that most people exceed a fair bit.
-The schedule is variable and people either like it or they don't. The program directors tweak it every year based on resident feedback, but there's no way to make everyone happy. There's a minimal # of 28 hour shifts at the VA (something like 12 total split between your PGY2 and 3 years depending on your exact schedule) and otherwise there's night float but a pretty manageable amount: only 2 weeks total as an intern these recent years, something like 6 or 7 weeks each year as a PGY2 and 3.
-The PGY2/3 have a pseudo X+Y schedule, interns have a traditional clinical schedule.
-Fresno as a city is cheap and is only ~3 hours from SF or LA, within 2 hrs of the coast or mountains.
Minus:
-No food at the VA. There's a fridge with some sandwiches if you're on call, but that's about it. From what I hear, that's fairly typical for a VA though
-You're very busy. Caps are always set at 20 patients per team, and you'll typically hit them on call days q4 at CRMC and q3 at the VA.
-Research is not as big a focus as the major academic programs if that's your thing.
I never used the errand service discussed above, so I can't comment on it. I also was never accused of using drugs (and never heard of any residents being accused of that) so I can't speak to that either. What I can say is that the program will bend over backwards to try to work with any struggling residents. Most of the residents are DO/IMG/FMG, but there's a few US grads each year and I'd say one of the major reasons for that balance is really geography. I personally like Fresno, but it doesn't have the most amazing reputation amongst CA cities.
In addition, I can say that prelims and categoricals are treated completely identically, other than the fact that prelims probably are less expected to do procedures if they don't want to (the anesthesia prelims always did, the derm prelims not so much). Prelims even do a full IM continuity clinic for their year, unlike a lot of programs I've heard of.
UC Davis is in a worse location (about 100 miles east in pretty much the middle of nowhere) and has nothing but USMDs in their class. Even with the UCSF name, this program can't attract USMDs.
Thanks for the input! Sounds like you have had experience with both programs. Any thoughts on culture of residents and administration. At the interview, I felt CCF to be more laid back but Jackson seemed more formal. Anyone pick up on these similar vibes?
Don't really know much about the logistics of the program. But I've had my experiences with the residents to know that they really grow after a few years in (I work at CRMC as an RN there). I am actually hoping to matching into this program should I choose IM. For my case, there would be way more upside than it is downside, since I'm a local here.
The undergrad is, sure. Not sure how much time the residents would spend there though, given that UC Davis Medical Center is in the center of Sacramento.
I was researching South FL programs but only thing that worries me is I see A LOT of Carrib grads which has me hesitant about going there. My Step 1 is pretty crappy so beggars can't necessarily be choosers, but I worry a lot of these places don't have fellowship opportunities or are malignant programs.
You are right about IMG in these programs, but location will be on top my list so one just have to hope for the best even if most of these programs have >50% IMG/FMG...
