Time To Get a WWatch - Game Thread

[SportPonies]

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What is your position on AM's affiliation? If you had to choose.

I had her slight village yesterday but I don’t trust my reads of her or genny so best to just ignore me

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I think I did it someone let me know if it's glitchy for others

Not working

 

[potentialsheltervet]

@Aprilthearab Can I get an updated summary of your reads?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Actually ditto for anyone who's currently around the thread.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Not working

How about now?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

How about now?

Nope. I can help you on Discord

 

[Aprilthearab]

Nope. I can help you on Discord

Okie how about now after I followed Dubz's instructions lol

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Rough Current Gut Feels?

Agreeable Abdomens
Truenamer
April
Clem
Nate

Suspicious Stomachs
Sporty
Empire

Turbulent Tummies?
AM
Santy
JJJ

...okay well if I just invert my reads constantly eventually I'll do something right?

 

[Aprilthearab]

@Aprilthearab Can I get an updated summary of your reads?

From village to woof

JJJ
PSV
AM

Sporty
Santy

Nate
Clem
True

Empire

The exact ordering within categories shifts a bit depending on how I feel so I wouldn't get too hung up on which villager is the villagiest or which wolf lean is the wolfiest in my list, might not mean all that much

 

[Aprilthearab]

Rough Current Gut Feels?

Agreeable Abdomens
Truenamer
April
Clem
Nate

Suspicious Stomachs
Sporty
Empire

Turbulent Tummies?
AM
Santy
JJJ

...okay well if I just invert my reads constantly eventually I'll do something right?

Oh this is... interesting

Why is JJJ so low?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Should note those aren't ordered, just grouped within categories.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

From village to woof

JJJ
PSV
AM

Sporty
Santy

Nate
Clem
True

Empire

The exact ordering within categories shifts a bit depending on how I feel so I wouldn't get too hung up on which villager is the villagiest or which wolf lean is the wolfiest in my list, might not mean all that much

Well, we don't have much agreement. Interesting.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Do you have any reservations about JJJ or AM or are they both nearly lockV for you?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

To add, you're still feeling really bad about True? And you think Clem sounded bad while going down?

 

[Aprilthearab]

Do you have any reservations about JJJ or AM or are they both nearly lockV for you?

Neither of them are lockV, no one is. I will always have a very minor but unshakable concern for powerwolves taking on a powervillager aura (JJJ, especially considering he's new and a great player) and AM hiding behind her 20 questions until midgame but for now, they're not anywhere near the POE

 

[potentialsheltervet]

@Animal Midwife Who's currently in your POE aside from me? I saw you mentioned wanting to hear from Nate too, is he POE or is that pending how/if he addresses the alleged samac situation?

 

[Empire]

I guess you could call that a paranoia PoE.
I have the distinct sensation I'm being shepherded. Of the current "wolfy" consensus players, I feel actually not terrible about Clem, Nate, and True. Which means either my gut is leading me astray or we're going down the wrong road.
So I'm reevaluating and cannot exclude you. Technically I guess I can't exclude anyone but.

I think the mindset here is villagery from PSV. I have almost never seen a wolf come into a day trying to argue that the established pecking order is wrong - they usually try to divert attention more subtly than this, unless they are in the immediate POE, which psv isn't, really. More liable to make enemies than allies. Wolves have the factional nightkill for dealing with village leaders rather than arguing against them. The "everything is wrong" paranoia also feels similar to my own perception of the game.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Oh hello @Empire.
If you agree everything feels wrong, who feels potentially right?

 

[Empire]

Degraded confidence in eliminating either Nate or True and no reason to that point to change my mind about Clem.

So why have you returned to Nate today? Because of the claim?

 

[Aprilthearab]

To add, you're still feeling really bad about True? And you think Clem sounded bad while going down?

No, and no... That's why I said don't put any stock in who might be my wolfiest wolf lean because it's just a mostly unordered category

True's logic is still super sketchy to me in a lot of places but he has this villager victim tone that makes me think he's just sketchy regardless and maybe innocent.

I don't necessarily like Clem's contributions but some random stuff makes me think that's not where I want to be voting.

I'm liking Nate's more recent contributions tbh but the D1 stuff was pretty sketchy so I'm not willing to put him in village right now. Plus, what I like about him is mostly some parallels between our reads, so if my reads end up being wrong, he loses village points.

So basically, I don't want to yeet any of them right now but someone has to be a second and/or third wolf and everyone else is more villagey than them, so there they are for now

 

[Aprilthearab]

What I'd really like today is an Empire yeet, but from the looks of everyone else's reads that probably won't be happening. I think a Nate yeet would yield important info (particularly about my Empire read, but that's just me) so I wouldn't be upset about a Nate yeet even though it's not where I want to vote if everyone else feels horrible about him

 

[NateTheLesser]

Well, I guess because it's born out of paranoia rather than actual substance. I cannot point to specific posts and say "JJJ sounds wolfy here," it's just a sentiment.

I've always thought that? Recently though you've cleared yourself early by voting for a wolf and/or sounding way more villagey than people in the POE and I don't know if either of those has happened yet.

That one post was WIFOM for sure but I'm not wolf-reading him over that one post. Like, I did the same thing as a wolf in LiterWWary (I think that was the game?) where I admitted being jailed before anyone else brought it up to try and get enough "wow a wolf wouldn't really do that, right?" but there are both village and wolf motivations for that sort of post.

How did you know you were jailed in that game? Kill didn't go through?

 

[NateTheLesser]

I had her slight village yesterday but I don’t trust my reads of her or genny so best to just ignore me

I don't think you need to worry about genny.

 

[Animal Midwife]

This is PSV's progression: (some posts were omitted because there were multiple saying True was a wolf just in slightly different ways)

HMMMM
I don't like True or Empire so far.

Of course, last time True was wolfing I ran my head into a brick wall not wanting to yeet him so maybe my track record is tarnished... But he feels like wolf!True to me.
If he flips wolf April looks real bad.

Idk about Empire, something feels weird there even though there's only a few posts.

Her [April] hopping in to defend him [True]/elaborate on his wolfiness felt very protective.
Would be interesting to go back to LiterWWary (incidentally, also a Zenge modded game) where they (we, actually) all wolfed together. My memory of that is somewhat foggy since I knew who was village and who wasn't.

Possible controversial take but I'm not leaning JJJ any which way as of now.

Why would that be controversial?

Because they are building a legion of villagers lol

This feels like TMI.
Like, you [True] aren't even considering I might not be village. Why, because you know who the wolves are?

Maybe. But I feel worse about TN individually than either of the others. As in, for me April and Empire feel weird in relation to True.
Maybe it's white knighting but eh

I don't understand this list. Santy a wolf read? Clem a wolf read? Genny? JJJ?
Sporty towny? Empire towny? Nate towny?

@JaggedJimmyJay You mentioned feeling okay about Empire. Who are you wolf reading right now, then? I know you're focusing on a town core but we do have to vote people out.

Wowee I'm concluding True and Nate are quite compatible. Weewow

An actual case against Empire extending beyond feels would require my laptop and I don't have it right now. This evening.
For now though
Unyeet Empire
Yeet true (sorry 😔)

The town/mafia game makes me feel like someone is being falsely cleared. Whomst?

wowee I'm going to regret this?

Unyeet True
Yeet samac

Garlicky
JJJ
April
AM
Santy

An Unknown Flavor
genny
Sporty
Nate
samac

Truenamer
Truenamer

Much Too Spicy
Clem
Empire

Hmm but this list distresses me

I don't know of anyone who can read Sporty lol. The first two people I considered are modding.

Also I'm kind of surprised at how many people answered wolf for Genny because so far I've not seen people be very concerned about her

I agree. Maybe just a safety thing since genny is usually wolf

Okay I'm super concerned with the threadstate tbf?
So I'm gonna...
Unyeet samac
Yeet LL Cube J

I'm not sure. Heck, just about everyone has had pressure at some point.

MEEP how are there four pages???
Do I need to break a tie or smth?

 

[Empire]

Oh hello @Empire.
If you agree everything feels wrong, who feels potentially right?

I am working on puzzling that out.

To start with: Santy opening the day with a vote on Nate and his justification being "POE" did not sit right with me. In my experience with Santy he is a player who has no difficulty in articulating well thought-out reasons for his wolfreads, whether they be right or wrong. For him to not be able to give more explanation than that was a red flag.

I'm a bit worried that the suspicion of Nate is partly a product of inertia (which admittedly I'd be responsible for starting). He started off later than anyone else in the game and when I did get started I (and others) biased everything he said into being wolfy. In my observation of games I've always hated the phenomenon where people get fixated on certain players being "POE" and that those players have to be flipped no matter what to clear up the gamestate. I think it tends to fuel people into confirmation bias and not re-evaluating when someone starts to get vilagery. It provides a fairly easy excuse for wolves to push the same old names.

When it comes down to it, beyond the late start, I'm not entirely sure what the case against Nate is. The things I picked on him for yesterday are fairly minor and not really slam dunk wolf tells. I didn't think his response to pressure was wolfy.

Of course, it's entirely possible Nate is a wolf who got off on the wrong foot and my contrarian tendencies are allowing him to get back into the game. It would not be the first time I've done this. (I think the phenomenon of wolves often struggling with making entrances and taking longer to get up to speed/appear 'villagery' is a generally true thing). But it's not my lean right now and I'd rather give Nate space to solve while I investigate other players - even in he event Nate is a wolf he has teammate(s) to catch.


I'm not really confident Santy is a wolf at all but after having initial good feelings toward him on Day 1 he mostly slipped out of my mind's eye. So right now I am content with pressuring him while I give his ISO a second look through.

 

[NateTheLesser]

What I'd really like today is an Empire yeet, but from the looks of everyone else's reads that probably won't be happening. I think a Nate yeet would yield important info (particularly about my Empire read, but that's just me) so I wouldn't be upset about a Nate yeet even though it's not where I want to vote if everyone else feels horrible about him

Are you caught up now? I didn't like Empire's early day stuff, but he seemed to get better in the latter half (like pg 12+, somewhere in there). Interested to see if we interpret the latter part differently.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Rough Current Gut Feels?

Agreeable Abdomens
Truenamer
April
Clem
Nate

Suspicious Stomachs
Sporty
Empire

Turbulent Tummies?
AM
Santy
JJJ

...okay well if I just invert my reads constantly eventually I'll do something right?

How did Nate move up to green?

 

[Aprilthearab]

To start with: Santy opening the day with a vote on Nate and his justification being "POE" did not sit right with me. In my experience with Santy he is a player who has no difficulty in articulating well thought-out reasons for his wolfreads, whether they be right or wrong. For him to not be able to give more explanation than that was a red flag.

I'm not really confident Santy is a wolf at all but after having initial good feelings toward him on Day 1 he mostly slipped out of my mind's eye. So right now I am content with pressuring him while I give his ISO a second look through.

I know I'm wolf reading you but I'd actually love to hear some more santy discussion from everyone because I think we're letting him get away with a lot of D1 credit and he might be part of the puzzle that's making us so confused about finding enough wolves among the roster

 

[NateTheLesser]

Oh we're talking about each other, what timing.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Are you caught up now? I didn't like Empire's early day stuff, but he seemed to get better in the latter half (like pg 12+, somewhere in there). Interested to see if we interpret the latter part differently.

Nah my catch up is on p24

 

[Animal Midwife]

@Animal Midwife Who's currently in your POE aside from me? I saw you mentioned wanting to hear from Nate too, is he POE or is that pending how/if he addresses the alleged samac situation?

Yes, he's POE still. I'm also looking at Empire.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

How did you know you were jailed in that game? Kill didn't go through?

Yes, and actions were loud in that game

How did Nate move up to green?

~feels~
This is a gut list, so justifications will be even sparser than usual for me.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I know I'm wolf reading you but I'd actually love to hear some more santy discussion from everyone because I think we're letting him get away with a lot of D1 credit and he might be part of the puzzle that's making us so confused about finding enough wolves among the roster

Yeah, I'm sad I haven't heard from him in a bit. Last game was so good.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I know I'm wolf reading you but I'd actually love to hear some more santy discussion from everyone because I think we're letting him get away with a lot of D1 credit and he might be part of the puzzle that's making us so confused about finding enough wolves among the roster

If only someone had started putting Santy in their PoE...

 

[Aprilthearab]

If only someone had started putting Santy in their PoE...

I'm okay with santy being there, just not AM and JJJ

 

[Animal Midwife]

Yes, and actions were loud in that game

~feels~
This is a gut list, so justifications will be even sparser than usual for me.

Feels on what?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm okay with santy being there, just not AM and JJJ

Alas, the feels feel what they feel.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Feels on what?

Gut feels on affiliation. My gut says Nate is village based on how he responded to nearly being yoten.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Gut feels on affiliation. My gut says Nate is village based on how he responded to nearly being yoten.

Why didn't today start with him in your green then?

 

[NateTheLesser]

I'll fully claim in a bit btw. I wanted reactions first, but it's better for the remaining time to be focused on solving rather than what I did/didn't claim.

 

[Santygrass]

@Santygrass Why did you call me "frozen" yesterday? It just stuck out to me because at that point I was probably the most active I've been so far, so I'm wondering if it was a genuine perspective.

I think I needed to ask if you were even there in EoD, cuz I felt like nook was saying his kinda legacy/refusing to claim, true being pure, Empire seemed like legit kinda reassessing, Ponies was in their quest of True Meta being based and then... I couldnt remember like a post from you that pinged me specifically?

I agree that near EoD you were kinda active, but my feeling is that you deflated a little after your wagon shifted away. I might need to reread EoD to confirm tho, but that was my feeling atm

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Why didn't today start with him in your green then?

Had to ponder it.

 

[Santygrass]

Also you're one person that "reacted" to my claim post but I don't remember you voicing any sort of opinion on what it might mean for my alignment.

I can see reasons for both alignments, but what is pinging me is that you said that youbwere going to speak if people wanted so. And there were desire of you doing so yet you havent adressed that atm? *Now is when I catch up and you did so*

 

[Empire]

I have a feeling that I've been the biggest voice against empire so I find it interesting that he puts me at the top of his village reads, even feels the need to separate me from the rest of the groups

I don't like getting too far down the rabbit hole of my own affiliation bias but I do have to wonder if this is an intentional wolfy strategy to pocket (or at least take himself off the very bottom of my wolf list) or get credit if I die

What has/had you putting santy so high?

Also find it interesting that you didn't end the day on either of your lowest wolf reads and instead opted for someone closer to neutral. Especially since you go out of your way to say that you don't have much on genny but you think something she did was villagery. Really do not like that

Not a huuuuge fan of the potentially retaliatory PSV read either

I won't address my read on you except to say my belief was that your solving felt authentic and the way you went out of your way to try to persuade me why I was wrong felt villagery. I think it's fair to suspect this could be a defense tactic from a wolf because wolves often respond to suspicion in that way.

I had general good feeling toward santy from early on in the day and the posts he made did not strike me as off in any way - the "vibe" was that he was decently comfortable and wasn't pushing a wolfy agenda. If this is vague and unsatisfying, that is understandable - it was lagely a gut-based read on a player I have a degree of meta with. That is why I am revisiting the read today.

If I were a wolf, I would likely care significantly more about remaining "consistent" with my votes, and would have little impetus to move - the reason I did so was because I felt the wagons being pushed were likely incorrect. I did not expect genny to become an actual wagon and I feel some rgret over that (the pop-in really did look wolfy, though)

you are right that the PSV read was partly OMGUS, but also partly because I couldn't really get her perspective on why she wolf read me. Put it this way. I know I am a villager. There were multiple people pushing/voting me during the day and I was one of the main wagons. It's decently likely that not everyone who pushes me is a villager, and that a wolf might try to take advanage of the pressure on me and join in. It's not an infallible read, there are times when only villagers push another villager, but to my mind psv was a potential suspect because it had looked like she might be mostly following other people's reads.


Further: Why is it wolfy if I village read you in your accusation of me, but also wolfy if I wolf read PSV?

 

[Empire]

@Santygrass - GTH, what is your read on JJJ right now?

 

[Santygrass]

This is PSV's progression: (some posts were omitted because there were multiple saying True was a wolf just in slightly different ways)

Idk how to read giv conclussion?

 

[Santygrass]

@Santygrass - GTH, what is your read on JJJ right now?

Villa~

 

[Santygrass]

Tho rn what I want to kind of do, is try to rebuild the PoE , maybe not assesing sporty today

 

[Santygrass]

@Aprilthearab @Truenamer an you quote me stuff from this game that feels like V!AM that they wouldnt do as a wolf?

 

[kaydubs]

Click to your ava in the upper part, go to bookmarks (its besides 'your account' there)

Definitely a regular now