Turning Down HMS

[medcards]

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To preface this post: I am incredibly grateful for the success I have had this admissions cycle. This is a position I never dreamed I would be in, and I recognize that I have an incredible amount of opportunities ahead of me regardless of the choice that I make.

That being said, as you might be able to tell by my posting right before the decision deadline...I'm having difficulty committing to my decision to turn down HMS. I have spoken to a huge number of current students at both HMS at the other top 5 school I am deciding between, as well as students making similar choices, my PI, etc. etc. I'm withholding the name of the other school for slight anonymity--I seriously spoke to a million people about this.

I'm currently undecided on specialty, though I know it won't be surgery. I am interested in pursuing academic medicine.

Summary of pros/cons for the two:
HMS
+ It's Harvard (I never realized how monumental the name was until I told people I was considering turning it down)
+ Matching to MGH/BWH/Children's if this ends up being important to me for my chosen specialty
+ clerkships before taking Step 1
+ early clerkships = earlier choice of specialty = tailor my research to my chosen specialty

+/- "flipped classroom" Maybe this would make me a better physician & help me retain everything. But also, potentially not. The research on this seems weak.
+/- possibility to do significant amount of research or other experiences before residency apps 3rd year. There isn't really anything published about what clinical/basic science electives will be required 3rd year, so the supposedly free 9+ months before applications may not be as open as it seems.

- 1 year preclinical. It seems extremely stressful. I know that a lot of changes have been made since receiving feedback by the current MS1s, but I'm still not confident that it will fit my learning style (and I can't imagine how stressful it must be to be one of the students prepping for 10+ hours each night)
- felt a lot less supportive/invested in students than other schools. This makes me even more concerned about the uncertainty of the curriculum, as I think such a new and risky curriculum needs a very strong commitment by faculty/admin/everyone to make it work.
- possible 15k fee if I needed/wanted to take a research year.
- no time to do research during first two years. 3rd year should provide enough research time, but if there are some electives/other things that inhibit how "free" this time is, I may not have enough time before residency applications (and then have to pay to take a research year...)
- weak focus on service/social justice compared to other schools I looked at
- mandatory 8-12:30 PM class
- more expensive (60k+ by the end)
- didn't get a great vibe on interview/Revisit here. I met some cool people & could be happy, but didn't feel an overwhelming sense of "fit"

(I may be putting way too much emphasis on the curriculum here, but it is what is by far driving me away the most)

Other Top 5 School
+ cheaper
+ established curriculum, and I like the structure of this curriculum better
+ just as many opportunities in research, clinical training, etc.
+ felt a slightly better "fit" here
+ seems to have a more supportive atmosphere
+ Easier for my SO to find a job here
+ funded research year if needed

+/- location: better weather, but not as great a city as Boston, so a wash here for me.

- it's not Harvard. I may regret passing up having the HMS degree, especially if I want to match at MGH/etc. in the future. It is very, very hard for me to turn this down.


So--should I turn down HMS? Or are the negatives worth the potential door-opening of the Harvard name (how valuable is the Harvard name)???

 

[preeeeeeemed]

Which HMS path did you get accepted for? That plays a decent role considering you're planning to go into academic medicine.

Ultimately, they're both incredibly schools, go with what you feel most comfortable with.

 

[medcards]

Which HMS path did you get accepted for? That plays a decent role considering you're planning to go into academic medicine.

Ultimately, they're both incredibly schools, go with what you feel most comfortable with.

Pathways only.

 

[Long Way to Go]

The other four "Top 5" schools are Stanford, Hopkins, UCSF, and Penn. HMS can add a lot to a CV, but you can go absolutely anywhere you want from any of those four schools. And you won't be held back for it. The Director of the CDC went to Columbia; the Surgeon General went to Yale, and the Dean of HMS went to Mt. Sinai.

Picture this: you're interviewing for your first attending job and you are a Hopkins MD/Hopkins IM residency/Hopkins fellowship grad. No one is going to reject you at any major academic medical center because that wasn't HMS Pathways MD/MGH IM residency/DFCI fellowship instead.

 

[Mansamusa]

I know a lot of people (~4) who turned down Harvard and there are a good number of threads on SDN of people turning down Harvard.

If it's better weather, I'm assuming Stanford? You'll do fine from there. I don't think Harvard's name is worth anymore than Stanford and they send plenty of people to Harvard residencies.

Congrats on the acceptances though!

 

[Bethany555]

I doubt any top 5 school would limit your career options. However, HMS will give you a big leg up if you have your heart set on matching into a Harvard-affiliated residency (as would Hopkins for a Hopkins-affiliated residency, etc).

Honestly, I wouldn't put too much stock into the curriculum. Most of the preclinical years are self-taught anyway. If I'm not mistaken, Harvard is one of the few schools that are true P/F without AOA.

I'm a student at Penn, and full disclosure: most of my classmates who turned down HMS received scholarships that weighed heavily on their decision. Personally, the only school I would potentially turn down HMS for is Stanford. However, it sounds like you like the other school better, and I doubt you can go wrong. Good luck

 

[bearintraining]

You should go where you'll be happy and it sounds like you WILL NOT BE HAPPY FOR AT LEAST THE FIRST YEAR at HMS. I personally would love to go to Harvard, but I didnt have your experiences (no invite). I also know of others who hated it there. So, all this just to say, it's easy to say Harvard from the outside, but if you don't really want it, it'll be a negative experience overall despite the name.

 

[occams_razor]

I know someone who turned down Harvard for another med school and they told me they have no regrets. As others have said pretty much every year on SDN there are threads where someone is turning down Harvard. Go where you will be happy.

 

[rednote]

I'm assuming it's between Hopkins and Harvard. Tbh they are both great schools and you'll do fine either way but personally, I would pick HMS because location matters a lot to me I would really prefer living in Boston over Baltimore. It's not somewhere I would want to spend 4 years+ if I had the option to choose other great city and HMS at that.

 

[zedsdead]

Come on, it's not like it's HMS vs. Bum**** State University. You're comparing two top schools. Go with the one you like more. I'm pretty sure your extra performance due to comfort will easily outweigh whatever minuscule prestige difference there is.

 

[Spector1]

those on the HMS waitlist thank you for your sacrifice

 

[longtimelurker2015]

Go where you'll be happy. Rock the boards, do great in med school, then go to Harvard for your residency if you still ache for that Harvard Diploma on a wall of your future physician office.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

To preface this post: I am incredibly grateful for the success I have had this admissions cycle. This is a position I never dreamed I would be in, and I recognize that I have an incredible amount of opportunities ahead of me regardless of the choice that I make.

That being said, as you might be able to tell by my posting right before the decision deadline...I'm having difficulty committing to my decision to turn down HMS. I have spoken to a huge number of current students at both HMS at the other top 5 school I am deciding between, as well as students making similar choices, my PI, etc. etc. I'm withholding the name of the other school for slight anonymity--I seriously spoke to a million people about this.

I'm currently undecided on specialty, though I know it won't be surgery. I am interested in pursuing academic medicine.

Summary of pros/cons for the two:
HMS
+ It's Harvard (I never realized how monumental the name was until I told people I was considering turning it down)
+ Matching to MGH/BWH/Children's if this ends up being important to me for my chosen specialty
+ clerkships before taking Step 1
+ early clerkships = earlier choice of specialty = tailor my research to my chosen specialty

+/- "flipped classroom" Maybe this would make me a better physician & help me retain everything. But also, potentially not. The research on this seems weak.
+/- possibility to do significant amount of research or other experiences before residency apps 3rd year. There isn't really anything published about what clinical/basic science electives will be required 3rd year, so the supposedly free 9+ months before applications may not be as open as it seems.

- 1 year preclinical. It seems extremely stressful. I know that a lot of changes have been made since receiving feedback by the current MS1s, but I'm still not confident that it will fit my learning style (and I can't imagine how stressful it must be to be one of the students prepping for 10+ hours each night)
- felt a lot less supportive/invested in students than other schools. This makes me even more concerned about the uncertainty of the curriculum, as I think such a new and risky curriculum needs a very strong commitment by faculty/admin/everyone to make it work.
- possible 15k fee if I needed/wanted to take a research year.
- no time to do research during first two years. 3rd year should provide enough research time, but if there are some electives/other things that inhibit how "free" this time is, I may not have enough time before residency applications (and then have to pay to take a research year...)
- weak focus on service/social justice compared to other schools I looked at
- mandatory 8-12:30 PM class
- more expensive (60k+ by the end)
- didn't get a great vibe on interview/Revisit here. I met some cool people & could be happy, but didn't feel an overwhelming sense of "fit"

(I may be putting way too much emphasis on the curriculum here, but it is what is by far driving me away the most)

Other Top 5 School
+ cheaper
+ established curriculum, and I like the structure of this curriculum better
+ just as many opportunities in research, clinical training, etc.
+ felt a slightly better "fit" here
+ seems to have a more supportive atmosphere
+ Easier for my SO to find a job here
+ funded research year if needed

+/- location: better weather, but not as great a city as Boston, so a wash here for me.

- it's not Harvard. I may regret passing up having the HMS degree, especially if I want to match at MGH/etc. in the future. It is very, very hard for me to turn this down.


So--should I turn down HMS? Or are the negatives worth the potential door-opening of the Harvard name (how valuable is the Harvard name)???

Yeah definitely turn it down. I turned down the Harvard of the Caribbean, so we'd basically be twinsies.