2009-2010 Case Western Reserve University Application Thread

[JJMrK]

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Sorry, but the process is anything but random.

Sure it is. An applicant either "fits" a school or they don't. So the process at one school might be very specific, but if you take 30 different specific processes that are each focused on different things, you get random.

In other words, I don't mean that Case's admissions are random. They probably have something very specific that they're looking for, and that guy didn't have it. But he will probably have some other quality that another school is looking for. IMO, that makes for a random process.

 

[Girfaroo]

How soon after submitting your primary did you guys get the secondary?

 

[Food]

Sorry, but the process is anything but random.

Sorry, but you can be anything but absolute with reference to the admissions process anywhere.

 

[Myuu]

Sorry, but you can be anything but absolute with reference to the admissions process anywhere.

I was referring to Case. Even still, the combined outcome of several non-random events may appear random, but will still be non-random.

 

[Food]

I was referring to Case. Even still, the combined outcome of several non-random events may appear random, but will still be non-random.

I bet this wasn't your mentality when you were applying.

 

[Myuu]

I bet this wasn't your mentality when you were applying.

It most certainly was.

 

[MzzLLX]

I know a professor who used to be a part of Stanford's Adcom. Even he admitted that the process was very random and that it depended on a variety of uncontrollable factors like who the other applicants in the pool were at the time your app was reviewed. I don't know about Case in particular, but it's very difficult to have different reviewers share the same view. As a human being, we all have our inherent biases. What may come off as fake and cheesy to one person, may seem emotional and heartfelt to another. Also, when reviewing apps in batches its hard not to unconsciously compare them to each other. A stellar student in a batch of stellar students may not get an invite, but a stellar student amidst a batch of average ones will. I really agree that the process is human and imperfect. Its odd but IMO I think rejections can be random at times, whereas acceptances/invites are not. If you were invited for an interview, you deserved it. But if you were rejected, it doesn't necessarily mean you weren't qualified or didn't fit.

Anyways sorry for the long post but I just felt like sharing my opinion on this subject.

Good luck to everyone who is still waiting, and don't give up hope

 

[JJMrK]

I was referring to Case. Even still, the combined outcome of several non-random events may appear random, but will still be non-random.

From an applicant's perspective, it's random because he/she doesn't know what each school is looking for.

From each school's perspective the applicant was just one more person who fit/did not fit their criteria.

For example, I'm interviewing at Ohio State but got rejected from Georgetown. Similar average MCAT, similar average GPA. One of them liked me, one didn't. Random from my POV, but whatever Gtown wanted I didn't have.

 

[Myuu]

From an applicant's perspective, it's random because he/she doesn't know what each school is looking for.

From each school's perspective the applicant was just one more person who fit/did not fit their criteria.

For example, I'm interviewing at Ohio State but got rejected from Georgetown. Similar average MCAT, similar average GPA. One of them liked me, one didn't. Random from my POV, but whatever Gtown wanted I didn't have.

Is that not precisely what makes it non-random?

 

[iceman77_7]

Is that not precisely what makes it non-random?

I think we're working off of one definition of random while the applicants are working off another. There is a definite reason why each person is rejected pre or post-interview. Because applicants never find out that reason unless they ask the admissions office explicitly, they consider the process to be random. Non-random from our end, random from theirs.

 

[JJMrK]

Is that not precisely what makes it non-random?

Not trying to sound sarcastic here, but:

From an applicant's perspective, it's random because he/she doesn't know what each school is looking for.

From each school's perspective the applicant was just one more person who fit/did not fit their criteria.

Like I said, it depends on your POV. I said it's random because I was talking to an applicant, and from our perspective it's a random process and you never know which schools will like you. On the other hand, a school might know what they want and have a very specific method of accepting applicants.

So I understand why you said it's not random, especially since you're on the other side of the process now. But at the same time, from the applicant's perspective, it appears very random.

 

[CCLCMer]

I think we're working off of one definition of random while the applicants are working off another. There is a definite reason why each person is rejected pre or post-interview. Because applicants never find out that reason unless they ask the admissions office explicitly, they consider the process to be random. Non-random from our end, random from theirs.

Exactly. It's more accurate to call the process SUBJECTIVE than it is to call it random. I think we can all agree that it's subjective. The adcomm is looking for people who they think have certain qualities, who may or may not in fact have those qualities. Stats are part of what the adcomm wants, but only part. That's where the subjectivity comes in. In some countries, high school students take a national exam. The people who score highest on that exam get to go to med school. People with low scores will understandably be unhappy with a system like that, but no one can deny that it's perfectly objective. Obviously we do not use the MCAT for the same purpose in this country, and I doubt many people would be willing to argue that the MCAT and/or GPA is a good way to measure people's future ability as physicians. So, no system is perfect, and this subjectivity is why it's important to apply to multiple schools and research those schools well before you apply.

Not trying to sound sarcastic here, but:

Before you get all proud of yourself, I said the same thing at the top of this page, and I was the first person to say it. So nyah!

 

[Myuu]

Not trying to sound sarcastic here, but:

Like I said, it depends on your POV. I said it's random because I was talking to an applicant, and from our perspective it's a random process and you never know which schools will like you. On the other hand, a school might know what they want and have a very specific method of accepting applicants.

So I understand why you said it's not random, especially since you're on the other side of the process now. But at the same time, from the applicant's perspective, it appears very random.

I totally understand that. I just define random as random without regard to perspective.👍 So for me, no matter how random it may look, it still isn't random, as much as I'd like to think it is.😳

 

[JJMrK]

Exactly. It's more accurate to call the process SUBJECTIVE than it is to call it random. I think we can all agree that it's subjective. The adcomm is looking for people who they think have certain qualities, who may or may not in fact have those qualities. Stats are part of what the adcomm wants, but only part. That's where the subjectivity comes in. In some countries, high school students take a national exam. The people who score highest on that exam get to go to med school. People with low scores will understandably be unhappy with a system like that, but no one can deny that it's perfectly objective. Obviously we do not use the MCAT for the same purpose in this country, and I doubt many people would be willing to argue that the MCAT and/or GPA is a good way to measure people's future ability as physicians. So, no system is perfect, and this subjectivity is why it's important to apply to multiple schools and research those schools well before you apply.

I like it. 👍

Before you get all proud of yourself, I said the same thing at the top of this page, and I was the first person to say it. So nyah!

To be fair, I said it in post 948, I just didn't fully explain it. 😀

I totally understand that. I just define random as random without regard to perspective.👍 So for me, no matter how random it may look, it still isn't random, as much as I'd like to think it is.😳

OK, makes sense. Any you're right; it's not random in the sense that a school doesn't just put your name in a bingo machine. The only reason I consider it random at all is that schools don't tell applicants exactly what they are looking for.

 

[CCLCMer]

To be fair, I said it in post 948, I just didn't fully explain it. 😀

Well then, I accept your gratitude for my eloquent explanation of what your not fully-explained post really meant. 😛 😍

All of a sudden, this thread got kind of lively. Even the lurkers are coming out to post. Hey there, lurkers!

 

[Myuu]

Well then, I accept your gratitude for my eloquent explanation of what your not fully-explained post really meant. 😛 😍

All of a sudden, this thread got kind of lively. Even the lurkers are coming out to post. Hey there, lurkers!

Nothing like a little irresistible discourse to pull them into the open!👍

 

[CCLCMer]

Nothing like a little irresistible discourse to pull them into they open!👍

Haha, yeah. Myuu the Instigator, they call you. 👍

Hey greenbeans08, I see you reading this thread! You are a total SDN addict, you know?

 

[greenbeans08]

Haha, yeah. Myuu the Instigator, they call you. 👍

Hey greenbeans08, I see you reading this thread! You are a total SDN addict, you know?

Gah! How did you see me?

I need to get the F away from this and go do my job before I get fired. You got me...

 

[Myuu]

Haha, yeah. Myuu the Instigator, they call you. 👍

Hey greenbeans08, I see you reading this thread! You are a total SDN addict, you know?

And for some bizarre reason that reminds me of the song Minnie the Moocher, which in turn reminds me to tell you to check out Doc Opera if you're visiting our fair city in November.


...'cept I can't remember what the exact date is...

 

[iceman77_7]

And for some bizarre reason that reminds me of the song Minnie the Moocher, which in turn reminds me to tell you to check out Doc Opera if you're visiting our fair city in November.


...'cept I can't remember what the exact date is...

Dec 5

 

[Myuu]

Dec 5

November's kind of close to December, right?!

(oops)

 

[CCLCMer]

Gah! How did you see me?

I need to get the F away from this and go do my job before I get fired. You got me...

If you scroll down to the very bottom of the thread, you can see all of the people who are reading it. Plus they tell you the number of guests reading it also. So I see that you're still here.

And for some bizarre reason that reminds me of the song Minnie the Moocher, which in turn reminds me to tell you to check out Doc Opera if you're visiting our fair city in November.


...'cept I can't remember what the exact date is...

It's always Saturday of the week after Thanksgiving, so December 5 this year. I go every year, so this will be my fourth, not counting the one they had when I was revisiting. (There were two shows in 2006, because up to that point they used to hold Doc Opera in March instead of December.)

 

[Myuu]

If you scroll down to the very bottom of the thread, you can see all of the people who are reading it. Plus they tell you the number of nonmembers reading it also.


It's always Saturday of the week after Thanksgiving, so December 5 this year. I go every year, so this will be my fourth, not counting the one they had when I was revisiting. (There were two shows in 2006, because up to that point they used to hold Doc Opera in March instead of December.)

Well then! You'll be able to see me embarrass myself.

 

[CCLCMer]

Well then! You'll be able to see me embarrass myself.

Awesome! Don't worry about how you come off, the show is supposed to be funny, not professional. I already know that you got funny down. 👍

Are you singing or dancing or both?

 

[Myuu]

Awesome! Don't worry about how you come off, the show is supposed to be funny, not professional. I already know that you got funny down. 👍

Are you singing or dancing or both?

Singing x2, so no time for ze tanzen!


(Besides. How many feet/legs do you want me to break?!)

 

[CCLCMer]

Singing x2, so no time for ze tanzen!

Oh, you'd be surprised. There are some people who end up performing in like half the songs, then spend the other half playing in the band. I don't know how they find the time, especially the second years, and especially the UP second years.

One of the really fun things about Doc Opera is that the society deans always participate in one of the songs, and they're in the skits sometimes too. We are our own society so to speak, so I don't know your deans really well. But their stuff is always hysterical. Dean Haney is especially funny. They had this skit with him once, it was to a Shakira song called Hips Don't Lie, and he was in it at one point telling a kid he got an F, and then he turned around and shook his own hips. OMG, I thought I would die laughing. Classic.

 

[Food]

I don't understand why some people have to be so rigid with their interpretation of the admissions process. The truth is, as applicants, it's such a tough process that we can't help justifying failure on our part by inherent randomness in the process. This perception is lent support when adcoms themselves admit that there are so many qualified applicants that it is difficult for them to admit only a handful of them. So I will argue, and always argue that there is a degree of inherent randomness in any sort of "admissions process". There are real, live human beings reading our applications and therefore there is subjectivity involved - the process isn't and can never be completely unbiased by something. If an applicant "isn't what the school is looking for" that indicates randomness - mainly because what separates such an applicant from the applicant that the school is looking for, might be something pretty trivial if compared objectively. Adcoms just like some people over others - I have no problem with it. But to me that's a little random.

 

[Myuu]

Oh, you'd be surprised. There are some people who end up performing in like half the songs, then spend the other half playing in the band. I don't know how they find the time, especially the second years, and especially the UP second years.

One of the really fun things about Doc Opera is that the society deans always participate in one of the songs, and they're in the skits sometimes too. We are our own society so to speak, so I don't know your deans really well. But their stuff is always hysterical. Dean Haney is especially funny. They had this skit with him once, it was to a Shakira song called Hips Don't Lie, and he was in it at one point telling a kid he got an F, and then he turned around and shook his own hips. OMG, I thought I would die laughing. Classic.

I believe this year's dean song is Minnie the Moocher. I cannot wait!👍👍👍

 

[CCLCMer]

I believe this year's dean song is Minnie the Moocher. I cannot wait!👍👍👍

I'm sure it will be great. I just wish we could get Dean Franco to do it too. Then our deans would be complete. 😀

 

[JJMrK]

Well then, I accept your gratitude for my eloquent explanation of what your not fully-explained post really meant. 😛 😍

👍

 

[CCLCMer]

Me, greenbeans08, and Myuu back together again. Well, ladies, what do we discuss now? Who's a Grease fan? It's raining....in Cleveland....

 

[greenbeans08]

Me, greenbeans08, and Myuu back together again. Well, ladies, what do we discuss now? Who's a Grease fan? It's raining....in Cleveland....

I'm pretending I'm not here. The real question, CCLCMer, is why are you always here to see me? Hmm?

 

[Myuu]

Me, greenbeans08, and Myuu back together again. Well, ladies, what do we discuss now? Who's a Grease fan? It's raining....in Cleveland....

It's not raining in this part of Cleveland. The weather here seems so noncommittal!

 

[CCLCMer]

I'm pretending I'm not here. The real question, CCLCMer, is why are you always here to see me? Hmm?

I think it's because you're always here, so every time I log on, there you are, waiting for me to see you. 😀

I'm like you though. I'm giving a journal club talk tomorrow, and so I've been working on the computer, which requires having to take SDN breaks every now and then. Actually, this time I only logged back on because I got a PM. Asking about admissions stuff. The nerve.

I need to get ready for bed though. Today I was post call, and I went to the UP second years' FCM class. It was about aging. They had a panel of nonagenarians talking about how they lived that long. The common theme seems to be that you need to read a lot. Fortunately, we all have that covered by virtue of being med students and premeds. 👍

It's not raining in this part of Cleveland. The weather here seems so noncommittal!

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that you've gotten no rain? I almost drowned yesterday afternoon! I just checked weather.com, and it's supposed to rain all day tomorrow too, but then Thursday will be nice.

All I can say, is that my life is pretty plain....I like watching the puddles gather rain!

 

[Myuu]

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that you've gotten no rain? I almost drowned yesterday afternoon! I just checked weather.com, and it's supposed to rain all day tomorrow too, but then Thursday will be nice.

All I can say, is that my life is pretty plain....I like watching the puddles gather rain!

Oooooh, I thought you meant at this particular instant. It was raining pretty good yesterday. Good thing I went plane-watching on Sunday instead.

 

[Latetotheparty]

Doc Opera sounds hilarious and awesome.

The weather in Cleveland has a strong commitment to gray, does that count?

I live in Cleveland now, but grew up in another Great Lakes city, and didn't realize how gray it was around the lakes until I lived in New Jersey for a couple of years.

 

[vc7777]

All the people who paid full price to go to MIT, no doubt. 🙂

Good point.

I'm sure you're going to do well. Seriously, you sound really together, plus Case loves the bent arrows.


Gramps?

Ouch! I resemble that comment...you crazy kids! [vc7777 shaking his rake at all of you from his lawn while wearing tubesocks and sandals.]

 

[Myuu]

Good point.



Ouch! I resemble that comment...you crazy kids! [vc7777 shaking his rake at all of you from his lawn while wearing tubesocks and sandals.]

So should I stalk you on day two of your interview?

 

[vc7777]

All I can say, is that my life is pretty plain....I like watching the puddles gather rain!

It's not sane. [did I mention I am wearing a bumblebee suit while holding my rake?]

 

[vc7777]

So should I stalk you on day two of your interview?

Ha! Just look for the older candidate, of muscular stature (note: this is a polite way of saying "having the girth of a muscular man" not to be confused with "a muscular man"), with an Armani suit and Fruit-of-the-Loom Size 13 tubesocks and Birkenstocks.

...although I'm afraid I might not stand out enough...perhaps a red carnation too?

 

[PowerButton]

Wow I haven't checked this thread in a while.. what the hell is going on here??

 

[trueBelief]

Ha! Just look for the older candidate, of muscular stature (note: this is a polite way of saying "having the girth of a muscular man" not to be confused with "a muscular man"), with an Armani suit and Fruit-of-the-Loom Size 13 tubesocks and Birkenstocks.

...although I'm afraid I might not stand out enough...perhaps a red carnation too?

👍

 

[Myuu]

Wow I haven't checked this thread in a while.. what the hell is going on here??

Madness. Madness and mayhem.👍

 

[PowerButton]

Madness. Madness and mayhem.👍

So it seems. I'm kind of scared now to come to my interview day (you're a tour guide right?)

 

[vc7777]

So it seems. I'm kind of scared now to come to my interview day (you're a tour guide right?)

Never mind...I was being a real dork when I posted this an hour ago...struck from the record

vc7777

 

[CCLCMer]

Doc Opera sounds hilarious and awesome.

The weather in Cleveland has a strong commitment to gray, does that count?

I live in Cleveland now, but grew up in another Great Lakes city, and didn't realize how gray it was around the lakes until I lived in New Jersey for a couple of years.

Doc Opera is definitely hilarious. There are some of the old skits on YouTube, if you're interested in seeing them. Just do a search for Doc Opera and you'll find them.

Ouch! I resemble that comment...you crazy kids! [vc7777 shaking his rake at all of you from his lawn while wearing tubesocks and sandals.]

Tubesocks. My dad wears those, but not with his sandals. Hahahaha.

It's not sane. [did I mention I am wearing a bumblebee suit while holding my rake?]

Dadadada, dadadadada, dadadada, dadadadada....

It's totally taking over my brain. 😱

Ha! Just look for the older candidate, of muscular stature (note: this is a polite way of saying "having the girth of a muscular man" not to be confused with "a muscular man"), with an Armani suit and Fruit-of-the-Loom Size 13 tubesocks and Birkenstocks.

...although I'm afraid I might not stand out enough...perhaps a red carnation too?

Make it pink, and wear a white sport coat. 👍

Wow I haven't checked this thread in a while.. what the hell is going on here??

You are seeing the true nature of Case students when the gloves come off and the sleep goes AWOL. 😀

Madness. Madness and mayhem.👍

It's not sane. It's not sane. It's not saaaaaaaaaaaaaaane.

So it seems. I'm kind of scared now to come to my interview day (you're a tour guide right?)

Myuu's tour will be awesome.

Never mind...I was being a real dork when I posted this an hour ago...struck from the record

Aww, come on. Now you've got my curiosity piqued!

 

[vc7777]

Aww, come on. Now you've got my curiosity piqued!

Fine, CCLCM...this is purely a dorky electrical engineering thing: please don't take offense PowerButton:

Is technically a "Power Standby" push button. The mnemonic is that the '0' (or 'OFF') is incomplete and is interrupted by the '1' (or 'ON'). Although I myself call it 'the power button' as well, it would be a painful lesson to work on the electronics of a machine plugged in with this button in standby as parts of it would still be powered up! A true power button is marked as such with a full '1' and '0':

This by the way makes great small talk for those awkward moments when you and a stranger are both waiting for printouts staring at the printer...not.

 

[CCLCMer]

Is technically a "Power Standby" push button. The mnemonic is that the '0' (or 'OFF') is incomplete and is interrupted by the '1' (or 'ON'). Although I myself call it 'the power button' as well, it would be a painful lesson to work on the electronics of a machine plugged in with this button in standby as parts of it would still be powered up! A true power button is marked as such with a full '1' and '0':

This by the way makes great small talk for those awkward moments when you and a stranger are both waiting for printouts staring at the printer...not.

Wow, I haven't ever noticed those symbols before. I'll have to pay attention the next time I am using an appliance of some type that has a pause button, so to speak. 😀

Edit: I'm looking at the power button of my laptop, and it looks like the first symbol of the standby button. Same thing for my power strip. Why would that be? I guess it means that even when I turn the computer or power strip off, some part of it is still powered up?

 

[st0w]

Wow, I haven't ever noticed those symbols before. I'll have to pay attention the next time I am using an appliance of some type that has a pause button, so to speak. 😀

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I worked in the tech sector for nearly fifteen years before starting medical school and I had no idea of the difference. It's a bit esoteric - although now that I know it, I think it's pretty cool.

Edit: I'm looking at the power button of my laptop, and it looks like the first symbol of the standby button. Same thing for my power strip. Why would that be? I guess it means that even when I turn the computer or power strip off, some part of it is still powered up?

Well, your laptop would be because you can put the laptop to sleep - when it's not completely powered off, but it's in a low-power state. The power strip, though, that's a little odd (assuming it's one of those cheapo five or six plug outlets) - seems they put the wrong symbol on it. Probably a product/industrial designer who didn't know there's a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol

 

[CCLCMer]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I worked in the tech sector for nearly fifteen years before starting medical school and I had no idea of the difference. It's a bit esoteric - although now that I know it, I think it's pretty cool.

In that case, I guess there was no hope for a tech-challenged person like me. 😳

Well, your laptop would be because you can put the laptop to sleep - when it's not completely powered off, but it's in a low-power state. The power strip, though, that's a little odd (assuming it's one of those cheapo five or six plug outlets) - seems they put the wrong symbol on it. Probably a product/industrial designer who didn't know there's a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol

That crescent moon, I have that on my computer too under F3. Based on what the wiki article says, I assume if I press Fn + F3, it will put my computer to sleep. (Moon....sleep....yeah, I get it!) Since I myself need to go to sleep, I think I will give it a try. All of these buttons, and I never had any idea about what they did or even really noticed them.